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The store where I plan to play the ARD BOYS prelim just told me that they are ruling that a SM Commander who purchases a Command Squad must be with the squad the whole game because they beome a "retinue"

Nowhere in the description of a "command squad" does it say unit type: retinue/ this unit becomes a retinue/ can purchase a "command squad" retinue.........or anything else changing their classification to a retinue. I called GW and they said exactly the opposite which has long been my understanding. A SM captain for example may unlock the purchase of a command squad but they are just that, a command squad and the captain is free to join/leave the command squad unit at players choice, they even noted that the sm captain doesn't have to deploy with them.

The store says I must provide the GW ruling in writing or the store owner must speak with someone from GW "in person" in order to change their ruling on the issue. The nearest GW store is 2 hours away. Can anyone provide a link to GW response or enlightenment on this.

any help?

About the closest you will find in writing is (if it's still in there) the ruling in the Eldar FAQ that the Warlock mob don't have to stick with the Farseer that unlocks them.


As you say, nothing in the Command Squad entry suggests that they are a retinue, so they're not.

Having said that, if the store has chosen to rule that way for a specific event, that's entirely up to them. At least they have pointed it out ahead of time, rather than springing it on you on the day.

Well tell the store owner to put down the crack and step away....lol.

This ruling is really nuts, and thinking that the store owner is going to get to talk to a GW rep "in person" is even worse. I have gotten a few rulings questions answered via e-mail from GW, mostly to count as house rules, however, expect GW first reply to be "We would love to help.....please call us at 555-555-5555.". When that e-mail comes, you have to press the issue that you need a written answer to the statement. Mostly they try to pass it off. Call GW, get the person on the phone that replied, explain that you must have a written statement, and they probably will do it. Be fast though, they take a few days to get it to you.

If you can't get a reply back from GW in time, you could attempt to gain some ground on this by pointing out the difference between a SM command squad and the way that Black Templar buy Command squads. Nowhere in SM book can i find anything like the BT rule on page 22 regarding independent characters and command squads.

If they're going ahead with this ruling, ask if you can allocate wounds away from the Captain in close combat, since they're functioning like a retinue. Also, Ask if the same rule applies to Farseers and the like, along with Chapter Masters and their honor guards, Techmarines and their servitors, and any other choice "unlocked" by the purchase of an independent character.

Just2, the easiest way to change their minds is to ask what happens when you take Calgar and three Honor Guard.

Insist that the three Honor Guard have to be joined by Calgar making one giant unit of pain and suffering. and give them relic blades.

Have you tried asking him to point out where exactly in the Space Marine codex it tells you the squad is a retinue?

The Retinue section of the rulebook leaves it up to the codex to specify what is or isn't a retinue. So if he can't find it in the codex maybe (I doubt it) he'll admit it isn't a retinue.

insaniak wrote:About the closest you will find in writing is (if it's still in there) the ruling in the Eldar FAQ that the Warlock mob don't have to stick with the Farseer that unlocks them.


As you say, nothing in the Command Squad entry suggests that they are a retinue, so they're not.

Having said that, if the store has chosen to rule that way for a specific event, that's entirely up to them. At least they have pointed it out ahead of time, rather than springing it on you on the day.

Furthering this, is the SM Commander an IC?

ICs can join and leave units at will.

AvatarForm wrote:ICs can join and leave units at will.

Unless the unit is a retinue. Which is presumably the reason for the OP's objection.

insaniak wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:ICs can join and leave units at will.

Unless the unit is a retinue. Which is presumably the reason for the OP's objection.

Which the SM Codex does not state.

The unit is not classified as a Retinue, hence, if the SM Commander is an IC, he can leave and join at will.

Which was the point of my post.

AvatarForm wrote:

insaniak wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:ICs can join and leave units at will.

Unless the unit is a retinue. Which is presumably the reason for the OP's objection.

Which the SM Codex does not state.

The unit is not classified as a Retinue, hence, if the SM Commander is an IC, he can leave and join at will.

Which was the point of my post.

Which has already been stated. Remind me why you posted in here again?

InnerLight wrote:If you can't get a reply back from GW in time, you could attempt to gain some ground on this by pointing out the difference between a SM command squad and the way that Black Templar buy Command squads. Nowhere in SM book can i find anything like the BT rule on page 22 regarding independent characters and command squads.

If they're going ahead with this ruling, ask if you can allocate wounds away from the Captain in close combat, since they're functioning like a retinue. Also, Ask if the same rule applies to Farseers and the like, along with Chapter Masters and their honor guards, Techmarines and their servitors, and any other choice "unlocked" by the purchase of an independent character.

Quoted for truth!!!
I would do exactly as InnerLight said and show him both a BT codex (pg22) and a Space Marine codex (pg129, 131, and 132) and play a game of spot the difference.

AvatarForm wrote:Which the SM Codex does not state.

The unit is not classified as a Retinue, hence, if the SM Commander is an IC, he can leave and join at will.

Which was the point of my post.

Your post seemed to be presenting the fact that ICs can join and leave units at will as an argument that it wouldn't matter if the Command Squad was a retinue, because the IC could just choose to leave it.

Look at it this way. He just gave 5 extra wounds to your Commander, and he can no longer be targeted in Close combat.

If he is going to rule this way, make him pay.

I was going to say, this is actually a great thing if they decide this. It lets you avoid ID wounds with you commander while taking a saves on him when you want to keep bodies in place.

There is absolutely no basis for the claim, if they opt to not read the rules, there is nothing you can do about it though. The WH codex has a very succinct statement for retinues with Celestians and a Canoness, I think pointing this out and noting its absence in the SM codex should be sufficient, but if not just use them as a retinue...

ask if it works with blood angels too and play Mephiston and honor guard QQ

he's wrong but TO's rule 40k

Ask him if Marneus gets to join all three 'retinues' at once, since an IC with a retinue must start the game with it and Marneus can have three Honor Guard or whatever.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:ask if it works with blood angels too and play Mephiston and honor guard QQ

he's wrong but TO's rule 40k

Oooooooohhhhhhh that would be awesome! I want to play in a tournament that allows that!

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:ask if it works with blood angels too and play Mephiston and honor guard QQ

he's wrong but TO's rule 40k

ohh myyyyy gaaaaawwwwwwdddddddd THIS +1 you need to roll blood angels and make your TO miserable... pretty sure this would clean up the battlefield

InnerLight wrote:If you can't get a reply back from GW in time, you could attempt to gain some ground on this by pointing out the difference between a SM command squad and the way that Black Templar buy Command squads. Nowhere in SM book can i find anything like the BT rule on page 22 regarding independent characters and command squads.

If they're going ahead with this ruling, ask if you can allocate wounds away from the Captain in close combat, since they're functioning like a retinue. Also, Ask if the same rule applies to Farseers and the like, along with Chapter Masters and their honor guards, Techmarines and their servitors, and any other choice "unlocked" by the purchase of an independent character.

This is probably the best approach.

The other examples, about having Mephiston with a Retinue or Marneus somehow simultaneously joined to three "Retinue" units are more good ones.

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The bigger issue to consider here is that this store/organizer does not appear to know the rules well. And you may wish to bear that in mind when deciding whether you want to play at that store. Absolutely TONS of stores run the Prelim round, because it's free and comes with prize support, and this includes stores which don't usually run big tournaments, and so may not have a good organizer/rules judge.