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I've actually never played fatecrusher and don't have enough crushers to really pull it off (only 5). Instead, I usually play a list heavy on winds of chaos. Three-unit Flamer squads are pretty devistating in small point games. Pop down, flame on, wipe a unit that's worth more than you are. If you live, you're golden. Well, this list is for next weekend, and it's a bit of both worlds. What do you think?

2500 Pts - Chaos Daemons Roster

Total Roster Cost: 2497

HQ: Fateweaver, Oracle of Tzeentch (1#, 333 pts)
1 Fateweaver, Oracle of Tzeentch, 333 pts

HQ: Herald of Nurgle (1#, 85 pts)
1 Herald of Nurgle, 85 pts = (base cost 50) + DGN: Cloud of Flies 5 + rDG: Breath of Chaos 30

HQ: Herald of Nurgle (1#, 85 pts)
1 Herald of Nurgle, 85 pts = (base cost 50) + DGN: Cloud of Flies 5 + rDG: Breath of Chaos 30

Elite: Bloodcrushers of Khorne (5#, 200 pts)
5 Bloodcrushers of Khorne, 200 pts = 5 * 40

Elite: Flamers of Tzeentch (3#, 105 pts)
3 Flamers of Tzeentch, 105 pts = 3 * 35

Elite: Flamers of Tzeentch (3#, 105 pts)
3 Flamers of Tzeentch, 105 pts = 3 * 35

Troops: Bloodletters of Khorne (8#, 128 pts)
8 Bloodletters of Khorne, 128 pts = 8 * 16

Troops: Bloodletters of Khorne (8#, 128 pts)
8 Bloodletters of Khorne, 128 pts = 8 * 16

Troops: Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (9#, 158 pts)
8 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch, 136 pts = 8 * 17
1 The Changeling, 22 pts

Troops: Plaguebearers of Nurgle (10#, 175 pts)
10 Plaguebearers of Nurgle, 175 pts = 10 * 15 (base cost 15) + DG: Chaos Icon x1 25

Troops: Plaguebearers of Nurgle (10#, 175 pts)
10 Plaguebearers of Nurgle, 175 pts = 10 * 15 (base cost 15) + DG: Chaos Icon x1 25

Troops: Daemonettes of Slaanesh (10#, 140 pts)
10 Daemonettes of Slaanesh, 140 pts = 10 * 14

Fast Attack: Screamers of Tzeentch (5#, 80 pts)
5 Screamers of Tzeentch, 80 pts = 5 * 16

Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of Chaos (1#, 210 pts)
1 Daemon Prince of Chaos, 210 pts = (base cost 80) + DG: Daemonic Flight 60 + DG: Iron Hide 30 + MC: Mark of Nurgle 30 + DGN: Noxious Touch 10

Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of Chaos (1#, 210 pts)
1 Daemon Prince of Chaos, 210 pts = (base cost 80) + DG: Daemonic Flight 60 + DG: Iron Hide 30 + MC: Mark of Nurgle 30 + DGN: Noxious Touch 10

Heavy Support: Daemon Prince of Chaos (1#, 180 pts)
1 Daemon Prince of Chaos, 180 pts = (base cost 80) + DG: Iron Hide 30 + MC: Mark of Nurgle 30 + DGN: Noxious Touch 10 + rDG: Breath of Chaos 30


In 1500 -2000pt games, I usually run a GD of Khorne with the heralds. No Daemonettes - just three squads of 7 PB, and 3-4 crushers. Only army that really gives me trouble is a very mobile sooty army like sear council eldar. Have not played DE though

Posting individual costs for upgrades is strictly against forum rules.

Valkyrie wrote:Posting individual costs for upgrades is strictly against forum rules.

Thanks for reminding the OP of this rule. Any further contributions? No? Great. You've been very helpful. /sarcasm.

Anyway OP, I generally prefer FateFiend, I feel you get more bang for your buck.

Something along the lines of:

1. Fateweaver - 333pts.

2. Herald of Tzeentch - 110pts.
w/ Chariot, We are Legion, Master of Sorcery, Bolt of Tzeentch.

3. Herald of Tzeentch - 110pts.
w/ Chariot, We are Legion, Master of Sorcery, Bolt of Tzeentch.

4. 6 Fiends - 190pts.
w/ Unholy Might

5. 6 Fiends - 190pts.
w/ Unholy Might

6. 6 Fiends - 190pts.
w/ Unholy Might

7. 5 Plaguebearers - 100pts.
w/ Chaos icon

8. 5 Plague Bearers - 100pts.
w/ Chaos Icon

9. 5 Plague Bearers - 100pts.
w/ Chaos Icon

10. 10 Horrors - 210pts.
w/ Bolt of Tzeentch, Chaos Icon, Changeling

11. 10 Horrors - 205pts.
w/ Bolt of Tzeentch, Chaos Icon

12. Daemon Prince - 220pts.
w/ Flight, Might, Mark of Nurgle, Noxious Touch, Daemonic Gaze

13. Daemon Prince - 220pts.
w/ Flight, Might, Mark of Nurgle, Noxious Touch, Daemonic Gaze

14. Daemon Prince - 220pts.
w/ Flight, Might, Mark of Nurgle, Noxious Touch, Daemonic Gaze

Total = 2498pts.

I've used this a couple of times and it's performed quite well. One thing you must be careful of is charging the fiends outside of FateWeaver's bubble. Also, Just make sure that everything but the Plaguebearers (and possibly the horrors) are within Fateweaver's bubble to make sure you get those re-rolls. You could also drop the Icons if you want for some other goodies like Iron Hide on those princes? Up to you,

Good luck,

Iranna.

Iranna wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:Posting individual costs for upgrades is strictly against forum rules.

Thanks for reminding the OP of this rule. Any further contributions? No? Great. You've been very helpful. /sarcasm.

Well I'm sorry I inconvenienced you by reminding a user of the rules. Care to provide anymore sarky comments on anything I'm doing wrong?

¬¬

Valkyrie wrote:

Iranna wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:Posting individual costs for upgrades is strictly against forum rules.

Thanks for reminding the OP of this rule. Any further contributions? No? Great. You've been very helpful. /sarcasm.

Well I'm sorry I inconvenienced you by reminding a user of the rules. Care to provide anymore sarky comments on anything I'm doing wrong?

¬¬

Reminding someone of the rules is all fine and dandy. I really have no problem with that. However, if you could in future try to at least comment on the list in question and help a user refine said list. You come across as being rather rude.

Iranna.

Iranna wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:

Iranna wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:Posting individual costs for upgrades is strictly against forum rules.

Thanks for reminding the OP of this rule. Any further contributions? No? Great. You've been very helpful. /sarcasm.

Well I'm sorry I inconvenienced you by reminding a user of the rules. Care to provide anymore sarky comments on anything I'm doing wrong?

¬¬

Reminding someone of the rules is all fine and dandy. I really have no problem with that. However, if you could in future try to at least comment on the list in question and help a user refine said list. You come across as being rather rude.

Iranna.

I had no intentions of being rude at all. I saw that he had done that and while I had no advice to offer him regarding his list (Daemons aren't my speciality) I thought he should know about the rule.

Okay lets be friends here..Valkyrie, thanks for pointing out the fault, but you coulda at least followed it up with some list advice or some sort of list relevant information. Iranna, be nice, we are all supposed to be friendly (end first-grader talk)


Armus, I really would lose the heralds of nurgle and pick up some heralds of tzeentch with chariots/breath/we are legion/master of sorc and all the good fun stuff. They are much more useful.
Elites are fine if you like breath and flamers, do it if you want, you just have to play it dangerously which I think is great. Drop your plague squads to 5 each, you dont need 10, trust me. They are there to hold objectives.
make the daemonettes larger, like 15, or drop them. 10 will get wasted by bolters.

Your princes are all good, if you can get wings on the last one. You should be able to with points from lost plaguebearers and daemonettes.
Just my advice, not bad at all though, just a bit different.

In my opinion, in high point games I've found that shooty Daemons does the best(except Bloodcrusher elites, although this is an issue for you). Considering that Tzeentch Daemons don't require cover due to their save, I consistently use Tzeentch only lists, simply because Daemons aren't that great in melee as they would appear. My army list looks like this:

HQ
Lord of Change(We are Legion)=290
2x Herald of T.(Chariot, WeAreLegion, MasterOfSorcery, BoltOfT, Icon)=270

ELITES
3x 4 Flamers=420

TROOPS
2x7 Horrors=197
4x8 Horrors=544

FAST ATTACK
3x3 Screamers=144

HEAVY SUPPORT
3x Daemon Prince(Mark of T., MasterOfSorcery, BoltOfT., Daemonic Gaze, BreathOfChaos)=600

The point of this army is shoot, shoot, then shoot a bit more, plus with 4 MCs it will look intimidating, all of whom aren't too shabby in CC.
Your preferred option will consist of: 1 Herald, LordofChange, ALL the flamers, and ALL the DPs. This way your army can absorb a lot of small arms fire quite easily, and in your first turn you will be able to fry a lot of units into smoking uniforms and burning wreckages. An idea is deep striking your flamers as close as possible to their scoring units to torch 'em as much as possible.

AchillesFTW: Dont agree with you on daemons being not so great in combat lol i think this an army of combat and by the list you suggested your trying to take a combat army and turn it into a shooty one ,giving up on daemons real streaght witch is close combat . They only really struggle with daemons armies ,are tank heavy (sucks that today meta is tank heavy armies )

i dislike deamon shooty princes for that reason ,your turning a assault unit into a shooting platform . I rather pay for soulgrinder who will outclass a shooty deamon prince in everyway or just take a close combat nurgle prince .

daemons do combat better than most armies : crusher ,nurgle princes , fiends ,bloodlettters ,deamottes ,seekers ,bloodthisters , keepers , heralds of khorne or slanesh just to name some can all be good in combat either by ignoring your armor or having tons of reading attacks ,not saying this units dont have there issues but just saying they are able to do combat well

and not saying your army bad or anything everyone has there play style i just dont agree with your thinking on "daemons arn't that great in melee as they would appear "

Now back to original list poster i say go with your list play the crap out your list and im sure you will see what works for you cause it stands i think every unit can be use with a purpose but id drop the deamonnettes to up size the bloodletter units so you have more staying poer and more combat power other than that ,i think the list is good

Achillesftw, Your horror squads at 7 per squad should cost 119 each, and total to 238. So that is off by a bit.

Also, I agree with deamonwithin, turning a daemon army into a shooting army will not provide the best ard boyz results. daemons have a few select decent shooting attacks, breath is nice, gaze is good, and bolt is alright. Princes suck at shooting because they cant split fire like the rest of big things for tzeentch, so you are spending 200 points to either shoot 1 str8 ap 1 at a tank, or shooting a squad with str 5 ap 3, assault 3, with a bolt thrown in. In melee they would be much more effective as nurgle, turning princes into shooting platforms is denying them their main ability which is all attacks ignore armor, and 2d6 pen. Also, the problem with tzeentch as it is very easy to wound. Bolter shots will tear apart everything in your army,even the princes. 5s to wound and a 4+ save is not optimal for a heavy support prince that can be rapid fired down. Its just not the way I would run daemons, it is fluffly, but not the strongest way to run the codex.

Regarding the original poster...refer to me earlier post lol.

I'm not using the Lord of Change and DPs for shooting ONLY, they are there to pop in and shoot stuff on the 1st, or maybe 2nd turn until they can get into CC. The reasons why I say Daemons suck in CC is that bloodletters get torn up by anything with higher initiative, provided they are not blasted and shot up on deep-strike turn. IMO If you are going to do a CC army, it should be filled with Beasts/Cavalry on the 1st turn, along with Jumping Princes etc.

Well if you are using the princes for melee, you need wings on them. Otherwise anyone who knows how to play daemons will back up and unload on you every turn till you are whittled down. Bloodletters are a fraction of the daemon codex, who in melee will beat a 10 man tactical squad point for point if they get the charge. Hell, even if they dont, 20 attacks hitting on 3s, wounding on 4s. That is 7 dead marines while getting charged. If you charge you will kill 13 marines before they strike. Bloodletters are a great unit, but takes a bit of risky deep striking to use. If you do beasts/cavalry first turn only with princes, the cavalry will get shredded by small arms fire, you need a mix of durable units screening the squishy units. Like crushers in front of fiends for deep striking. With monstrous creatures scattered in front and to the side to create a bubble wrap. Daemons probably are the strongest codex in melee.

If you're going to do a Fatecrusher list... you need more crushers. Heres my suggestion.


Fateweaver - 333

Bloodthirster - 275
w/ Might, Blessing

4x Crushers - 185
w/ Icon

4x Crushers - 185
w/ Icon

6x Fiends - 220
w/ Might

10x Bloodletters - 160

10x Daemonettes - 140

5x Plaguebearers - 75

5x Plaguebearers - 75

5x Horrors - 95
w/ Bolt

5x Horrors - 95
w/ Bolt

Daemon Prince - 230
Hide, MoN, Flight, Nox, Might

Daemon Prince - 210
Hide, MoN, Flight, Nox

Daemon Prince - 210
Hide, MoN, Flight, Nox

Total - 2488

My horrors numbers are fine, just try using a calculator(no offense but smash in some numbers). IMO you will do way more damage if you pop in lots of ranged units Turn 1. Also Daemons lose to DE easily, along with regular Eldar.

Space Marines may get torn up by BLs, but first lets see the Bloodletters get torn up by 18 Bolter Shots, and a Frag Blast first. Let's assume the frag blast gets 4 BLs. That on average will leave 6.66 Bloodletters dead from one squad of marines w/ a missle launcher. Since our friend is running 8 man squads, you will definitely lose combat even if you do charge first. Bloodletters will lose to any half-decent melee squad. In fact the only thing they will kill well IS a tactical squad of marines.

Seriously, any army with half a wit will kill daemons before they charge into melee, whereas a shooty daemon army will do a great deal more damage, and therefore be saving themselves in the process. I swear even an assault squad of marines will fare better in combat since they will get to assault on charge with their good ole' packs. If they shoot you with a few pistols you will lose 2 BLs. Not the best idea, but its what I'm saying.

Your list says 2 seven man horror squads equal 197. A horror is 17 points..14 times 17 is 238. Not 197.
Maybe you should try to stop using a calculator and do it by hand.

I appreciate the advice really but don't have a lot of time to change the army around. The local store sucks for minis so the chances of picking up six fiends are slim to none. I will tweak it though based on yalls ideas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and the point costs in the original list were due to the source - army builder. Just copied it in