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2015/09/07 15:10:52
Subject: NOVA Open 2015 (9/3-6/2015) Washington, DC - Pre-Order F.A.T. Mats and Skip Shipping Costs
Think we both dropped after that and didnt bother with an 8th game.
But grats to the winners, mad cool meeting some of these famed up bigwigs of the game. Had a great time.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/07 15:38:51
2014 Templecon/Onslaught 40k T, Best overall
2015 Templecon/Onslaught 40kGT, Best overall
2015, Nova open 40kGT Semifinalist.
2015 40k Golden Sprue Champ.
2016 Best General Portal Annual Spring 40kGT
2017 Best General, 3rd Annual Winter 40kGT Hosted by The Portal.
2018 Triumph 40k GT. Best Overall.
2018 Best General, 4th Annual Winter 40kGT Hosted by The Portal.
,
2015/09/07 16:50:18
Subject: NOVA Open 2015 (9/3-6/2015) Washington, DC - Pre-Order F.A.T. Mats and Skip Shipping Costs
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Think we both dropped after that and didnt bother with an 8th game.
>has a chance to play Nick for 3rd place.
>they both drop.
That's a shame. I would've liked to hear about that game.
I jokingly told nick we should play Army for Army! But he wanted to drink. My loss to Tombking was great play skills and out played by Brett for a decisive victory. I think Nicks game came down to like a 50point VP difference after 5 to 5 tie, so he was burnt and i understood, we are destined to play, 2 different daemon list one day, but we both took it hard losing in the Semis and went and had drink instead. Sorry to disappoint :(
(Plus i think 4 of my games through out, I ran into Faty/Screamers/heralds on disc with grim list)
Grats again TK, well played. Best wishes with the New Born, hope for a rematch one day.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/07 17:11:28
2014 Templecon/Onslaught 40k T, Best overall
2015 Templecon/Onslaught 40kGT, Best overall
2015, Nova open 40kGT Semifinalist.
2015 40k Golden Sprue Champ.
2016 Best General Portal Annual Spring 40kGT
2017 Best General, 3rd Annual Winter 40kGT Hosted by The Portal.
2018 Triumph 40k GT. Best Overall.
2018 Best General, 4th Annual Winter 40kGT Hosted by The Portal.
,
2015/09/07 17:13:34
Subject: NOVA Open 2015 (9/3-6/2015) Washington, DC - Pre-Order F.A.T. Mats and Skip Shipping Costs
Thanks Mike and friends. Had a great time at my first NOVA. Even though I didn't do very well this time, all of my opponents were super-cool and every game was pleasant. It was great to meet many of the dakkalites who went as well as all of the great players in the entire country. It was also really cool to see a lot people whom I've never met before come up to me and say hi, people who recognized me from my reports on both dakka as well as the Frontline video reps.
Ejderhare wrote: Ahh good to hear that the Necrons are slogging on =).
Would both of you mind sharing the lists you ran? does wonders for the less experienced players like my self to study =)
I have a list post in the Army lists section, and will be doing bat reps here soon. Basically it was decurion with 4 harvests and the only upgrades were shield vanes and nebuloscopes for tomb blades. Then took an aspext host with 3x7 warp spiders, and two exarchs had TL.
First, and really only change I'd want to make to the list is to drop 1 warp spider from each squad and the twin links for a second unit of tomb blades. They're awesome.
Ejderhare wrote: Ahh good to hear that the Necrons are slogging on =).
Would both of you mind sharing the lists you ran? does wonders for the less experienced players like my self to study =)
I have a list post in the Army lists section, and will be doing bat reps here soon. Basically it was decurion with 4 harvests and the only upgrades were shield vanes and nebuloscopes for tomb blades. Then took an aspext host with 3x7 warp spiders, and two exarchs had TL.
First, and really only change I'd want to make to the list is to drop 1 warp spider from each squad and the twin links for a second unit of tomb blades. They're awesome.
Cheers will have a look.. thx...
2015/09/07 22:19:15
Subject: NOVA Open 2015 (9/3-6/2015) Washington, DC - Pre-Order F.A.T. Mats and Skip Shipping Costs
Think we both dropped after that and didnt bother with an 8th game.
>has a chance to play Nick for 3rd place.
>they both drop.
That's a shame. I would've liked to hear about that game.
I jokingly told nick we should play Army for Army! But he wanted to drink. My loss to Tombking was great play skills and out played by Brett for a decisive victory. I think Nicks game came down to like a 50point VP difference after 5 to 5 tie, so he was burnt and i understood, we are destined to play, 2 different daemon list one day, but we both took it hard losing in the Semis and went and had drink instead. Sorry to disappoint :(
(Plus i think 4 of my games through out, I ran into Faty/Screamers/heralds on disc with grim list)
Grats again TK, well played. Best wishes with the New Born, hope for a rematch one day.
What do you mean Nick wanted to drink....he never stopped heh. Thursday night he and pajama pants were chasing each other around the hall, screaming and wrestling.
Mike thanks for providing us all with a great time and looking forward to next year!
I do what the voices in my wifes head say...
2015/09/08 01:13:52
Subject: Re:NOVA Open 2015 (9/3-6/2015) Washington, DC - Pre-Order F.A.T. Mats and Skip Shipping Costs
I'm pretty sure Sascha, the 4th place finisher & overall winner, does not read Dakka. This is the list he was planning on taking as of just before NOVA started; I'm not sure if he changed anything.
125 Khan
95 Chaplain, Auspex
145 Iron Clad 1x Melta, Storm Bolter, free Drop Pod
145 Iron Clad 2x heavy flamers, free Drop Pod
110 5x man Tactical squad with Melta, Combi Melta, free Razorback with Assault cannons
115 5x man Tactical squad with Grav Cannon, Combi Grav, free Drop Pod
115 5x man Tactical squad with Grav Cannon, Combi Grav, free Drop Pod
95 5x man Tactical squad with Plasma, free Razorback with Assault cannons
95 5x man Tactical squad with Grav Gun, free Razorback with Assault cannons
90 5x man Tactical squad with Melta, free Razorback with Las-Twin linked Plasma
80 5x man Assault squad with 2x flamers, free Razorback with T. H. Flamer
80 5x man Assault squad with 2x flamers, free Razorback with Heavy Bolter
150 5x man Devastator Squad with 3 Lascannons, free Razorback with Assault cannons
130 5x man Devastator Squad with 5 Heavy Bolter, free Razorback with Assault cannons
10th Company Task Force
105 5x Scout Squad, Sargent with Combi Melter, Land Speeder Storm with Heavy Flamer.
115 5x Scout Squad, Sargent with Combi Melter, Land Speeder Storm With Multi Melter.
60 5x Scout Squad, 5 Sniper
1850 points
His army is gorgeous. He put a lot of effort into getting some new bits painted up for NOVA; I guess that paid off for him.
(these are from games at our shop earlier this year, not NOVA)
Nova was an amazing time. I played 11 games in total. I was exhausted by the end of it. So proud to go 4-0 and making the top bracket. That bracket was brutal. Played Aaron DA/SW/SM, played Ben Cromwell Necrond/Eldar, played Tyler DA/SW/SM, and finally played Sascha for a Gladius on Gladius mirror match.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Nova List Julio Rodriguez
Gladius Strike Force
White Scars
Demi Company 1
Khan on Foot -Warlord
Tactical Squad -80pts
Meltagun, 4 Bolters
Drop Pod
Tactical Squad -80pts
Meltagun, 4 Bolters
Drop Pod
Tactical Squad -80pts
Meltagun, 4 Bolters
Drop Pod
@julio: gladius vs gladius are the best games ever. So much stuff happening. So much damage. So many decisions and tactics coming into play. It's glorious.
Thanks to all those who volunteer and organize Nova, I had a lot of fun and it was by far the best tournament I ever went to. Congratulations to Aaron for winning both he invitational and the GT. Hopefully I get to meet all those fantastic players again soon.
My List was
Army List: Sascha Edelkraut
Chapter Tacticas: White Scars
Gladius Strike Force: Demi Company + Demi Company + Support (10th Company)
Demi Company 1 (Orange)
125p- Kor'Sarro Khan (WARLORD)
(Optional Elite)
145p- Iron Clad 2x heavy flamers, free Drop Pod
(Troop/ Fast/ Heavy Support)
90p- 5x man Tactical squad with Meltagun, Combi Melta, free Drop Pod
105p- 5x man Tactical squad with Grav-Cannon, free Drop Pod
105p- 5x man Tactical squad with Plasma Cannon, free Razorback with Twin-linked Assault
cannon
100p- 5x man Assault squad with 2x flamers, free Razorback with Lascannon & Twin-linked
Plasma Gun
120p- 5x man Devastator Squad with 3x Heavy Bolter, free Razorback with Twin-linked Assault
cannon
Demi Company 2 (Grey - Orange)
95p- Chaplain, Auspex
(Optional Elite)
145p- Iron Clad 2x heavy flamers, free Drop Pod
125p- 5x man Tactical squad with Grav-Cannon, free Razorback with Twin-linked Assault cannon
105p- 5x man Tactical squad with Plasmagun, free Razorback with Lascannon &Twin-linked
Plasma Gun
90p- 5x man Tactical squad with Meltagun, Combi Melta, Drop Pod
80p- 5x man Assault squad with 2x flamers, free Razorback with Twin-linked Heavy Flamer
160p- 5x man Devastator Squad with 2 Grav-Cannons, free Razorback with Twin-linked Assault cannon
10th Company Task Force
105p- 5x Scout Squad (Close Combat Weapons), Sargent with Combi Melter, Land Speeder Storm with Heavy Flamer.
115p- 5x Scout Squad (Boltguns), Sargent with Combi Melter, Land Speeder Storm With Multi Melta.
60p- 5x Scout Squad, 5 Sniper rifles
1850 points
2015/09/08 23:02:50
Subject: NOVA Open 2015 (9/3-6/2015) Washington, DC - Pre-Order F.A.T. Mats and Skip Shipping Costs
Hey I'm just gonna drop this here, I know it's a long shot. Did anyone happen to find a pair of Rayban prescription aviator sunglasses in a black polo hard case? Lost them at some point this weekend in the main hall. If anyone found them shoot me a PM, thanks.
2015/09/08 23:30:42
Subject: NOVA Open 2015 (9/3-6/2015) Washington, DC - Pre-Order F.A.T. Mats and Skip Shipping Costs
Luckily we managed to get past the rules-fiasco from a couple pages ago relatively unscathed, but for anyone curious, I wanted to weigh in as someone who actually had an impact on what went down:
Red Corsair wrote: Several viewers from the chat stream simply pointed out the error and agreed that his opponent should have picked up on it and that it was a shame there wasn't active judging in the top16 games.
First off, a disclaimer: I'm not directly affiliated with NOVA in any way whatsoever. Anything I say here is my own opinion; the particulars of the event are dictated by Neil, Phil, and Mike.
Second, an introduction: I'm Justin Curtis, many of you know me from rules judging at Adepticon (and various smaller tournaments) the past few years. I attended NOVA to play in the Invitational and the GT--however, once I dropped from the GT, Neil and Phil were kind enough to let me jump onto their judging crew for the remainder of the event. In fact, as Neil often becomes busier and busier as the event goes on, they actually allowed me to have a direct hand in running the top tables, alongside Phil and Chip.
Now, the phrase "active judging" is something we see get thrown around a lot--primarily on forums or streams, and almost always after the fact. I have never, and will never, be one to advise an event toward active judging. This was something Chip and I talked about briefly during the event, and I told him a phrase I stole from Dave Creswell (who used to run the Adepticon Championships), which is that he prefers "Vampire Judging." The gist being, judges cannot go into a game without being invited.
For 90% of an event, it means exactly what it says. Judges literally should not interfere in games unless they are directly asked by one of the players involved. Now, top tables late in an event are a little different, and usually have a judge standing tableside watching the entire game. That does not mean that judge is to interfere directly in the game, but it is definitely more active than you'd have at a normal table. As a (very) brief overview, these are the sort of things I'd do on a top table that most likely wouldn't happen on a normal game (as they wouldn't have a judge standing there):
1. Any time a player asks their opponent for a rules clarification, the judge should weigh in
2. Any time a player asks for a Line of Sight verification, the judge should handle it
3. Any time a player references the rules incorrectly to their benefit, the judge should weigh in
These are primarily time-saving measures to ensure the game keeps running smoothly, and there are still a lot of gaps allowing things to be played incorrectly.
This leads into the primary belief I have in regard to judging, which is rather simple: the primary responsibility for ensuring someone does not cheat always lies with their opponent. Not the TO, not the judges. You, the guy playing. You are the only one that has an active stake in ensuring your opponent does not cheat. I've laid this policy out in much further detail in the past, with explanation as to why it must be this way, and will include it behind a spoiler box below:
Spoiler:
As a TO, the first responsibility lies with the owning player. You will see this reflected in every rules packet for every major GT. You are to have all of the rules for every unit in your entire army, and those rules are to be available to every opponent (or a judge) by request.
As a judge, the first responsibility always lies with the opposing player. It is every player's responsibility to know (or ask questions if they don't know) the rules. That will always be true, as there will never be enough judges to have one standing at each table making sure the game is played correctly. The fact is, you are the only one with an actual stake in making sure your opponent does not cheat, and are therefore the only one qualified to make sure that it doesn't happen. If you come to me after a game and tell me that Bobby convinced you Tactical Marines can move 30" and they all have Meltaguns, that's not my fault, and it's not Bobby's fault--it's your fault for believing him. That is the truth of how judging a large event works--you cannot go back and change outcomes after the game has progressed beyond them (outside of literal, physical cheating--such as cheat dice or something similar) because doing so would up a whole Pandora's Box of other problems.
As a player, I play with that exact mindset, but that's likely because I'm also a judge. If I let my opponent play a rule wrong and it costs me the game, I don't end up mad at him, I end up mad at myself for letting him get away with it. But again, the overwhelming majority (which can be learned by standing around a hallway during a GT and listening to people complain about how they got cheated) would likely have the opposite opinion.
Now an important distinction has to be made--saying it is your responsibility to "know the rules" does not mean you are expected to memorize every rule in all of 40k. That has obviously long-since gone completely out the window, with the huge scope of rules that currently exist. As a judge I can tell you even the top-tier competitive players never know "all of the rules" (or anywhere close to that) even going back to the comparatively tame days of 5th. It is probably more accurate to say it is your responsibility to ensure the game is played correctly. That consists of three concepts, in descending order:
1). Try to know the rules
2). If you don't know the rules, ask your opponent to show you the rules
3). If you aren't satisfied, ask a judge
If you get cheated without performing all three of these steps, then it is your fault. You can try to blame whoever you want, but the resources were available to you to avoid it, and you did not make use of them. Again--these are unchangeable facts, until you find yourself a tournament that can assign a top-level judge (of which I know about four or five in the whole country) to every single table.
So the question is, where is there an opportunity for change to occur?
And I can tell you pretty easily: change needs to happen at the level of the player.
Currently, players are practically terrified of asking their opponent to see rules. It's like some weird combination of admitting you don't know and accusing them of cheating; some people view it as both shameful and aggressive. People will gladly stand by with just a cursory "are you sure?" and then let things happen, regardless of how absurd--and trust me, as a judge, you hear all the absurd things that happened (in past tense, when people are expecting you to go back and fix it for them) because people just took someone else's word for it without checking.
That is, above all else, what really needs to change--it's also the primary flaw in the argument you seemed to be making, as you seemed to imply that every player would need to own every piece of rules documentation. No--you need to own your rules documentation, and you need to sack up and ask the guy to see his, as necessary. You cannot fathom how many problems that would solve.
Again, every tournament builds that fact into their core rules. As a TO/judge, if some guy shows up with some weird unit that was published in an Imperial Armour that came out in 1982 and his opponent asks to see the rules for it and he cannot produce them? I would gladly throw that unit out of the game immediately, and ensure he does not use it in later rounds. Showing up with a unit and expecting someone to just take your word for how it works is outright disrespectful to your opponents and would not be tolerated by any serious event.
That whole essay is more in regard to judging concepts in general, so in specific regard to what would be called "active judging," here's my general issue. For the purposes of this, we'll be using the Wolfstar multi-assault referenced earlier in the thread solely for the sake of simplicity (as it sounds like that assault actually ended up being completely legal) as a stand-in for "something illegal happening during a game."
The first issue is that there are no perfect judges. I noted in the spoiler box above that there's about four or five top-level judges in the whole country, as far as I'm concerned. And if any two of them played a game against each other, something would be done incorrectly. Likely something very small, but something nonetheless. I hold the opinion that no perfect game of 40k has ever been played, rules-wise (and I hold that as an indictment of the current state of the rules more than anything else.)
So, let's assume the Wolfstar multi-assault happens, is illegal, and plays a primary role in deciding who wins a top-table game at a major GT. The internet would be very upset. We'd have threads about it. But you know who wouldn't be upset, at least not in the same context? The player who lost because of it. I have never had a serious, competitive GT-level player come up to me as a judge and blame me for not reminding him how to play the game, and I've absolutely seen people lose games because they misplayed one of their own rules or their opponents misplayed one against them. They understand that the primary onus of correcting these things lies with them.
Now let's take a flipside look at a potential "active judging" circumstance. Let's say the Wolfstar multi-assault is illegal, and is immediately stopped by a judge standing tableside, with no request by the opposing player to do so.
Next turn, the opposing player (Necrons, in this case) makes an illegal move. For whatever reason, it is not recognized--by the opposing player or the judges. Maybe the judge didn't catch it (re:there are no perfect judges) or the judge had to step away for a moment (this happens literally all the time). But nonetheless, the Necron player is allowed to execute his illegal move.
Who is mad now? Literally everyone. The internet. The guy who lost. Other players. "Why'd you tell me I couldn't do X, but then you didn't stop him from doing Y?" You have, as a deliberate decision, shifted the primary responsibility for playing the game correctly from your players to your staff (who, as a quick reminder, are all volunteers). This is a nightmare scenario for an event, as there are only negative outcomes that can result from it, and they all serve to make your event look bad. Words like "bias" start getting thrown around. Nothing good comes of it.
There's a thousand other problems with active judging (disrupting the flow of play, making the game run even slower, the ultimate apocalyptic scenario wherein a judge stops a game without being asked and then provides the wrong ruling, etc) but the situation outlined above is why it should be avoided from an organizational standpoint, above all else.
Most likely not--the round when he was at the top (Round 6), it was Sascha vs. Nick on the stream. Aaron and Horton (the Daemonkin player) were on Table 2.
One additional note: WHERE IS MY SHIRT, MIKE?
I WILL HUNT YOU DOWN
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/09/09 06:58:15
2015/09/09 06:21:49
Subject: Re:NOVA Open 2015 (9/3-6/2015) Washington, DC - Pre-Order F.A.T. Mats and Skip Shipping Costs
20000+ points
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
I do what the voices in my wifes head say... 
