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 ph34r wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:Phobos and no grey knights allies? For for shame sir for shame.

Also anyone have any details on what forces get sent out when the phobos tech guard accompany the grey knights? I can't imagine they'd use skitarii I'm assuming servitors and bots

The Grey Knights got given Deimos, Mars still has Phobos I'm pretty sure!

em_en_oh_pee wrote:I think you mean 6 Robots, not 2x3, right?

In my last game I ran 6 in one unit and had a hard time getting them proper lines of sight. My gaming group might use more terrain than the average 40k player. The robots extremely overkilled everything they were shooting at, and then were left with not a ton of great targets, and the Iron Warriors fell back away from 36" range. Worth noting it was the deployment zones where you fight long-ways across the table, and it was a Maelstrom objective mission.
So, next game I will probably have one unit move forward for 1 turn while the other unit stays stationary and immediately opens fire.

Wulfey wrote:-ph34r

Where are you taking that list out? I am taking a similar list to Game Empire in Pasadena California.

This is what I was thinking. I still don't have a good earthshaker proxy. Maybe next week in time for SoCal Open. I have more screening units and special weapons and dragoons. You have those cannons and an extra special weapons team.

Spoiler:

Cawl 250 0
Enginseer 52 0
6x Dakkastan 660 0
2x Neutron 140 0
Vanguard 45
Rangers 40 8 (2arc)
Rangers 40 25 (1 transArq)
2x Dragoon 136

2x ElyCom 40 5
2x ComSquad 28 28
2x Ely Snipers 15 6

ElyCom 40 1 [warlord with bolter, 5+ get back CP trait, 5+ get CP on opponent strategem relic]
ComSquad 28 28
2x Ely Sniper 15 6
1x Ely Mortar 15 15
1x Plas Wep Team 30 21

Hah that's awesome! I'm up here in Palo Alto California. Got any pics of your army?

I gathered up my models and it hit me just how much painting I have to get through in the next two days. I will have a group photo on Friday. Some of my models are legit, but I have a whole stack of heavily converted 'Elysians' to get through. I am using bolt action soviets as the body base ($30 for 40 guys) with 20 now useless hot shot lasguns as sniper rifles with all kinds of scion gubbins and bits and beret heads (I had 4 scion team sprues waiting and then the codex hits). Even then I needed more bodies so I took some cultists and replaced their heads and gave them skitarii backpacks. My special weapon team has 'plasma rifles' made out of cultist auto rifle, skitarii arc rifle, and scion plasma gun tips. My command plasma jump teams have 'grav wings' made out of old kataphron armor parts that make breachers (another bit that will never ever be used). The command teams have my resin/magnetized secutarii peltast guns/arms as 'Cawl's expermental compact plasma rifles' (stupid forgeworld not giving my expensive models rules). And then I had to scrounge some 60mm bases ... so I cut up my old cult mechanicus codex and glued/puttied some old pieces of terrain to cover up that I was using bootleg parts. Then I used my old armorium container bits that just happened to have distinctive colors to divide up the squads based on what color of barrel/ammo box they have on their 60mm base. And then I saw I needed more mortars, so I cut up my old autocannon from a predator sprue, found a mortar in a mantic minis box I got from LVO, and then turned my old and unused 'shoes' from the dunecrawler kits into stands for 'mortars' cut out of the predator autocannon. This whole project has been one giant exercise of digging through the sprue bucket and turning those things into meta models. Once I finish giving the 'Elysians' a base coat and a wash I will post up a shot.

Maybe its just me, but I don't feel the need to try and find some really scamy unintended rule abortion to try and shoehorn in goofy army compositions just to have a 2% better chance of winning. I'd rather play warhammer 40k than play list cheese 40k.
Same thing with trying to come up with a way to have 20 detachment each from a different forge world, just make them all the same forge world. It's goofy.
If you don't want to play ad mech them don't play ad mech. Collect a guard army instead.

Converting old admech bits onto other models is my favorite part of the hobby. That my models are a hodge podge of kits that I put together to fit some theme in my head is what keeps me going on this stuff.

Danny slag wrote:
Maybe its just me, but I don't feel the need to try and find some really scamy unintended rule abortion to try and shoehorn in goofy army compositions just to have a 2% better chance of winning. I'd rather play warhammer 40k than play list cheese 40k.
Same thing with trying to come up with a way to have 20 detachment each from a different forge world, just make them all the same forge world. It's goofy.
If you don't want to play ad mech them don't play ad mech. Collect a guard army instead.

I'm 100% with this guy here. But ultimately, it's in the original rule designs that people feel the need to do this stuff. As it was said, the codex was basically a very disappointing copy pasta.

Still, I'd rather play my mediocre admech army than a cheesefactory russ spam list.

Danny slag wrote:
Maybe its just me, but I don't feel the need to try and find some really scamy unintended rule abortion to try and shoehorn in goofy army compositions just to have a 2% better chance of winning. I'd rather play warhammer 40k than play list cheese 40k.
Same thing with trying to come up with a way to have 20 detachment each from a different forge world, just make them all the same forge world. It's goofy.
If you don't want to play ad mech them don't play ad mech. Collect a guard army instead.

not to mention that people get so wrapped up in comparing x unit to Y unit they forget it's a strategy game and how it's used makes a lot of difference. a good unit poorly used is worth less than a bad unit used well.

Just had a game today, very close loss - though to be honest made a few mistakes which hurt me in the end.

One thing I struggled to answer to were Crisis Suits with drones - the problem I had was that weapons small arms fire was being allocated to and bouncing off the suits, while my Neutron Lasers were being allocated to, and overkilling the Drones.

How do you folks crack this nut, aside from throwing a disproportinate amount of firepower at it (as a Stygies Forge World, so no Crawl/Kastellans), or try and get them in close combat?
(As

 MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:
Just had a game today, very close loss - though to be honest made a few mistakes which hurt me in the end.

One thing I struggled to answer to were Crisis Suits with drones - the problem I had was that weapons small arms fire was being allocated to and bouncing off the suits, while my Neutron Lasers were being allocated to, and overkilling the Drones.

How do you folks crack this nut, aside from throwing a disproportinate amount of firepower at it (as a Stygies Forge World, so no Crawl/Kastellans), or try and get them in close combat?
(As

Send in the 'Goons!

 MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:
Just had a game today, very close loss - though to be honest made a few mistakes which hurt me in the end.

One thing I struggled to answer to were Crisis Suits with drones - the problem I had was that weapons small arms fire was being allocated to and bouncing off the suits, while my Neutron Lasers were being allocated to, and overkilling the Drones.

How do you folks crack this nut, aside from throwing a disproportinate amount of firepower at it (as a Stygies Forge World, so no Crawl/Kastellans), or try and get them in close combat?

Commander spam? Volume fire. My lists packs two Icarus Crawlers. I castle them with the Kastelans and inch my way into the center of the board. Tau has a very hard time winning because they pretty much get only one shooting round before I wipe their Fusions off the map.

Wrapping Tau in CC is like trying to catch water with a lasso. They will just fall back and shoot because they all Fly. Your Dragoons are best used to screen their Deep Strike and to run out and grab objectives; Tau are glassy and won't stand in the open for you to shoot them unless they have to, so force them to do it.

That being said, keep your stuff castled; that is, use your models to physically wall off your units so that they cannot stand close enough to CC them. Because if they wrap your Kastelans in CC, you're screwed. And don't divide your army too much. Tau are super mobile and can quickly bring their entire army to concentrate on any isolated unit.

Danny slag wrote:
Maybe its just me, but I don't feel the need to try and find some really scamy unintended rule abortion to try and shoehorn in goofy army compositions just to have a 2% better chance of winning. I'd rather play warhammer 40k than play list cheese 40k.
Same thing with trying to come up with a way to have 20 detachment each from a different forge world, just make them all the same forge world. It's goofy.
If you don't want to play ad mech them don't play ad mech. Collect a guard army instead.

No you're not alone, we're a bunch playing pure AdMech, the difference is a good chunk of the people here play either in tournaments or in very competitive environments, and so take chances on their sides by taking units from other armies because they have the possibility to do so.

Worry not you can talk with us about how you'd like to play your army is fun, fluffy and themed army lists, there will be people like me to discuss it with you (I have the same opinions), just mention you don't want to play in a competitive setting when you're asking advice on something, because people will give you was is considered the best advice and sadly, it involves Astra Militarum most of the time.

I saw your question about data-tethers earlier, my opinion on it is that they're way overcosted, for the same price (11 pts I believe) you can have a Vanguard with points to spare, or almost an Arc rifle Ranger, and I think it's better to have one extra body that can shoot and fight than just having a chance (not even a guarantee) to save some to Morale. If you play squads of 7-8 you'll be fine with Morale anyway.

Danny slag wrote:
Maybe its just me, but I don't feel the need to try and find some really scamy unintended rule abortion to try and shoehorn in goofy army compositions just to have a 2% better chance of winning. I'd rather play warhammer 40k than play list cheese 40k.
Same thing with trying to come up with a way to have 20 detachment each from a different forge world, just make them all the same forge world. It's goofy.
If you don't want to play ad mech them don't play ad mech. Collect a guard army instead.

I would love to play only pure Adeptus Mechanicus but we are a bit restricted by the business side of things and GW's bad rules. Fluff-wise, adeptus mechanicus are extremely diverse and should be able to use basically any sort of military unit that a forge world would make for the rest of the imperium at large. Rules wise we will never get those things in the mechanicus book unless they get their own special models, and as most of them would overlap hugely with Astra Militarum there is little incentive to and we basically just won't get those in our codex ever. For me to field a force that I think is fluffy, I need access to miscellaneous artillery, cannon fodder servitor infantry, guard vehicles with mechanicus upgrades, etc etc etc.

The fact that the Dogmas don't really incentivize you to take a pure army is a bummer if you want a no-custom-models, or an advantage if you want a bunch of custom counts-as Mechanicus units that GW will never give us. If all our units or dogmas were good I would try to go for pure Skitarii/cult units, but that's not how the cookie crumbled so I have embraced the custom conversions path.

Back when mechanicus were not an official faction, I spent years and years admiring the extensive conversions people did to have their Imperial Guard army be an "Adeptus Mechanicus" army. I love all the creativity and vision that went into these and I want to be able to bring a wider range of units into my army in the same manner.

I mean, if you really want to get into the fluff, keep in mind that the Skitarii are the heart of the Cult Mechanicus's private army, and vary wildly from place to place (we get the "Mars standard" patterns common on major Forge Worlds). Furthermore, Forge Worlds are defended by the Imperial Guard like any other planet.

Suzuteo wrote:
I mean, if you really want to get into the fluff, keep in mind that the Skitarii are the heart of the Cult Mechanicus's private army, and vary wildly from place to place (we get the "Mars standard" patterns common on major Forge Worlds). Furthermore, Forge Worlds are defended by the Imperial Guard like any other planet.

yup and in some cases there can be very little separating the skitarii from guardsmen... or on some worlds skitarii can resemble ogryns with weapon arms. further more servitors or entirely bionic men.

by far the most interesting bits of the lore deal not with skitarii at all but the warrior tech priests. the ones that study war and machinations of war the same way a biologis would study living organisms. At least to me that is.

Danny slag wrote:
Maybe its just me, but I don't feel the need to try and find some really scamy unintended rule abortion to try and shoehorn in goofy army compositions just to have a 2% better chance of winning. I'd rather play warhammer 40k than play list cheese 40k.
Same thing with trying to come up with a way to have 20 detachment each from a different forge world, just make them all the same forge world. It's goofy.
If you don't want to play ad mech them don't play ad mech. Collect a guard army instead.

You do you, booboo. No need to come in and chastise us folks who play competitively. Let people have fun how they want to. We all play AdMech to some degree, so we come here to discuss it. We have hashed out "pure" AdMech over a couple of threads and a slew of posts. So with new Codices come new additions and new strategy discussions.

And as a Metalica player, mixing FWs is all I can do to not hate playing my army. I wish Mars/Stygies weren't the no-brainer choices and that Metalica was worth a damn, but alas, in my highly competitive area, it's a no-go for my boys in white to be what they are.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Danny slag wrote:
Maybe its just me, but I don't feel the need to try and find some really scamy unintended rule abortion to try and shoehorn in goofy army compositions just to have a 2% better chance of winning. I'd rather play warhammer 40k than play list cheese 40k.
Same thing with trying to come up with a way to have 20 detachment each from a different forge world, just make them all the same forge world. It's goofy.
If you don't want to play ad mech them don't play ad mech. Collect a guard army instead.

You do you, booboo. No need to come in and chastise us folks who play competitively. Let people have fun how they want to. We all play AdMech to some degree, so we come here to discuss it. We have hashed out "pure" AdMech over a couple of threads and a slew of posts. So with new Codices come new additions and new strategy discussions.

And as a Metalica player, mixing FWs is all I can do to not hate playing my army. I wish Mars/Stygies weren't the no-brainer choices and that Metalica was worth a damn, but alas, in my highly competitive area, it's a no-go for my boys in white to be what they are.

i mean if you're so concerned about competitiveness and your army is that well painted, why not sell and get guard. they're damn good, just got a dex so they aren't changing for a while. you could even paint them metallica colors if you just like mechanicus. use rangers as guardsmen. Not like skitarii forces actually DON"T have transports, they have access to all the stuff guard has. get a few basilisks and call them an ordo reductor.

Sadly, that's what a lot of competitive players are probably doing. Guard is ridiculously strong.

Or he plays both and keeps enjoying the game? To each his own, we don't need another thread closed.

virus646 wrote:
Or he plays both and keeps enjoying the game? To each his own, we don't need another thread closed.

What's wrong with the current course of discussion? The topic is tangentially related to the main thread and everyone is (right now) being polite to one another.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, since absolutely no one responded to my post on page 13, I get the feeling no one is interested in my idea?

I like the spirit of your port idea, but Fires of Cyraxus is coming out Soon (tm). By the time you have gone through all the drudge work, not to mention get it popular enough to become wide spread, Fires of Cyraxus will come out the next week or something.

 ph34r wrote:
I like the spirit of your port idea, but Fires of Cyraxus is coming out Soon (tm). By the time you have gone through all the drudge work, not to mention get it popular enough to become wide spread, Fires of Cyraxus will come out the next week or something.

Yeah, it might not be worth the effort.

LexOdin9 wrote:

virus646 wrote:
Or he plays both and keeps enjoying the game? To each his own, we don't need another thread closed.

What's wrong with the current course of discussion? The topic is tangentially related to the main thread and everyone is (right now) being polite to one another.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, since absolutely no one responded to my post on page 13, I get the feeling no one is interested in my idea?

I have a Thanatar on my shelf. I love that model, but it is 100%. I have no pets or kids and it gives me comfort in the solitude of my apartment. Let's assume the Thanatar starts from similar rules to its 7th edition rules. The translation from 7th to 8th generally decreased points for middle range vehicles and increased their wound count by a factor of 3.5.

https://i.warosu.org/data/tg/img/0330/19/1403825762878.jpg

220 points (minor reduction in line with kastelons and onagers)
15 wounds
T8, 3+ to shoot, 4+ in combat, 3 attacks (+1 in line with other vehicles)

Blast mortar: D6, str8, -3, 2 damage [reduced range if fired on the move]
Twin linked mauler bolt cannon: 6 shots, str6, -2, 1 damage

8th largely got rid of all the ancillary upgrades.

Wulfey wrote:

LexOdin9 wrote:

virus646 wrote:
Or he plays both and keeps enjoying the game? To each his own, we don't need another thread closed.

What's wrong with the current course of discussion? The topic is tangentially related to the main thread and everyone is (right now) being polite to one another.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, since absolutely no one responded to my post on page 13, I get the feeling no one is interested in my idea?

I have a Thanatar on my shelf. I love that model, but it is 100%. I have no pets or kids and it gives me comfort in the solitude of my apartment. Let's assume the Thanatar starts from similar rules to its 7th edition rules. The translation from 7th to 8th generally decreased points for middle range vehicles and increased their wound count by a factor of 3.5.

https://i.warosu.org/data/tg/img/0330/19/1403825762878.jpg

220 points (minor reduction in line with kastelons and onagers)
15 wounds
T8, 3+ to shoot, 4+ in combat, 3 attacks (+1 in line with other vehicles)

Blast mortar: D6, str8, -3, 2 damage [reduced range if fired on the move]
Twin linked mauler bolt cannon: 6 shots, str6, -2, 1 damage

8th largely got rid of all the ancillary upgrades.

Just like this, with a little bit of community work-together we could probably make it fair and fun for everyone involved.

Anyhow, moving off of the current unresolvable topic of subjective preferences, I have realized something interesting:

Monitor Malevolus + Kurov's Aquila yields more CP than Grand Strategist + Kurov's Aquila if your opponent has more CP than you. =O

 Aaranis wrote:

Danny slag wrote:
Maybe its just me, but I don't feel the need to try and find some really scamy unintended rule abortion to try and shoehorn in goofy army compositions just to have a 2% better chance of winning. I'd rather play warhammer 40k than play list cheese 40k.
Same thing with trying to come up with a way to have 20 detachment each from a different forge world, just make them all the same forge world. It's goofy.
If you don't want to play ad mech them don't play ad mech. Collect a guard army instead.

No you're not alone, we're a bunch playing pure AdMech, the difference is a good chunk of the people here play either in tournaments or in very competitive environments, and so take chances on their sides by taking units from other armies because they have the possibility to do so.

Worry not you can talk with us about how you'd like to play your army is fun, fluffy and themed army lists, there will be people like me to discuss it with you (I have the same opinions), just mention you don't want to play in a competitive setting when you're asking advice on something, because people will give you was is considered the best advice and sadly, it involves Astra Militarum most of the time.

I saw your question about data-tethers earlier, my opinion on it is that they're way overcosted, for the same price (11 pts I believe) you can have a Vanguard with points to spare, or almost an Arc rifle Ranger, and I think it's better to have one extra body that can shoot and fight than just having a chance (not even a guarantee) to save some to Morale. If you play squads of 7-8 you'll be fine with Morale anyway.

Thanks I was about to start work on the last couple vanguards and wasn't sure if that was worth it, I'll leave the backpacks at home. I'm using Graia forge world since I'm going with many vanguard/ranger squads and I've always been more partial to the skitarii models side of ad mech. It also fits my home brew forgeworld fanboying best. So that'll help with moral too.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Danny slag wrote:
Maybe its just me, but I don't feel the need to try and find some really scamy unintended rule abortion to try and shoehorn in goofy army compositions just to have a 2% better chance of winning. I'd rather play warhammer 40k than play list cheese 40k.
Same thing with trying to come up with a way to have 20 detachment each from a different forge world, just make them all the same forge world. It's goofy.
If you don't want to play ad mech them don't play ad mech. Collect a guard army instead.

You do you, booboo. No need to come in and chastise us folks who play competitively. Let people have fun how they want to. We all play AdMech to some degree, so we come here to discuss it. We have hashed out "pure" AdMech over a couple of threads and a slew of posts. So with new Codices come new additions and new strategy discussions.

And as a Metalica player, mixing FWs is all I can do to not hate playing my army. I wish Mars/Stygies weren't the no-brainer choices and that Metalica was worth a damn, but alas, in my highly competitive area, it's a no-go for my boys in white to be what they are.

No go? Or just not the absolute most broken possible? Because those are two very different things that get used interchangeably a lot around here.

Danny I believe the backup is are standard issue and Skitarii all have them? Not sure what bit the data tether is supposed to be.

As I'm a programmer, I actually enjoy creating mathammer spreadsheets. So when it comes to choosing units/FWs, I look at the data and go "why would I use <blank> if <blank> is just better. Different philosophies on the game.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
As I'm a programmer, I actually enjoy creating mathammer spreadsheets. So when it comes to choosing units/FWs, I look at the data and go "why would I use <blank> if <blank> is just better. Different philosophies on the game.

i do this as well and have a points cost calculator that will compare units. But it's important to keep in mind no comparison no matter how well done is going to be 100% accurate because there are advantages and disadvantages to everything. and a lot of the game is making the best use of your advantages while minimizing the effect of your disadvantages.

Competitive play tournament details friendly game its still a war game . Even if we test units even if we just field them to see our paint job it's common logic to provide some resistance.

None wants to play shooting practice. As said we are not in forum tactics to say the obvious. We try to explain more obscured plans and most commonly our experience .

Unit ply different in each players hands and that's what we talking here. Putting aside point cost and how we view units utility we welcome all feedback. And we have and talked for all issues and guard and ad mech some Marin's even and sisters etc. Said it before if you find this talk not constructive or you bored don't need to read this by force. Make your own fluff threat that does not have tactics in title and go chit chat.

We can play what we like even if in here we talk about competitive . We can't though play competitive and get results if we chit chat only. So enough with who went what in here .

Forum title read or create your own. Cut the crying.

 MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:
Just had a game today, very close loss - though to be honest made a few mistakes which hurt me in the end.

One thing I struggled to answer to were Crisis Suits with drones - the problem I had was that weapons small arms fire was being allocated to and bouncing off the suits, while my Neutron Lasers were being allocated to, and overkilling the Drones.

How do you folks crack this nut, aside from throwing a disproportinate amount of firepower at it (as a Stygies Forge World, so no Crawl/Kastellans), or try and get them in close combat?
(As

You can target the drones specifically (they're a separate unit) and the Tau player can't offload wounds from drones onto his suits, only the other way around. So use your small arms to wipe out the drones, then train the big guns on the suits.

 General Helstrom wrote:

 MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:
Just had a game today, very close loss - though to be honest made a few mistakes which hurt me in the end.

One thing I struggled to answer to were Crisis Suits with drones - the problem I had was that weapons small arms fire was being allocated to and bouncing off the suits, while my Neutron Lasers were being allocated to, and overkilling the Drones.

How do you folks crack this nut, aside from throwing a disproportinate amount of firepower at it (as a Stygies Forge World, so no Crawl/Kastellans), or try and get them in close combat?
(As

You can target the drones specifically (they're a separate unit) and the Tau player can't offload wounds from drones onto his suits, only the other way around. So use your small arms to wipe out the drones, then train the big guns on the suits.

This^
I found really helpful to create spreadsheet/checklist with questions to follow so you won't overlook/act out of habit from 7th, with interactions such like these.

So i got a little 950 points tag team tournament coming up. 1 faction, battalion detachment, no nameed characters. I want to bring Stygies with 6 Ironstriders but I am not so sure what else. I was thinking about a massive 6 Dragoons drop but since I dont know whos is playing with me 2 Balistarii might be a go to as well and have 4 dragoons to drop. I thought about some Kastelans or a vanguard plasma drop (since I dont own e-priests). anyone got some meat ideas?