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 admironheart wrote:
So what is the main role of the Harlequin in a CWE list?

What does the ShadowSeer do?
What does the Troupe do? If you even take one.
What is the role of the Skyweavers?

How small is the most impactful detachment of Harlies and how does it work.

Is it just a counter charge or distraction carnifex or does it have an integral role.

I cannot see a small detachment being board control...So they are disruptive I guess.

I played a 1k point game vs them last nite for the first time...so I have a bit of insight to how they play. They do seem very limited in their tactics.

Shadowseer moves units twice and does MW's, more of a tax.

Your main goal is to take Skyweavers, at least 6, best Anti-vehicle in game, vs a Doom target you will kill a Knight a turn (I have killed 2 24 wound+ knights in 1 turn before with 3++/4++ saves from Ynnari + Doom + double Shoot).

DJ and Solitaires are very good too, Solitaire as Ynnari can fight 3x, DJ are just cheap and can kill bodies off objectives or pressure a small character (IG ones types)

You take a few key units for a hammer, Troupes, Voidweavers, Troupe Masters, Starweavers bring nothing to the game that DE or CWE does for better and cheaper.


My comp list is actually

Yncarne
Deathjester
Deathjester
Solitaire
Skyweavers x6: X6 HWC, X5 Glaives

Eldrad
Yvraine
Rangers x5
Rangers x5
Guardians x20, x2 scatter platforms
Shining Spears x8

Succubus: Shardnet
Succubus: Shardnet
Wyches x10: x2 Shardnets
Wyches x10: x2 Shardnets
Wyches x5

Note, i used to take DE battalion with 3 Ravagers and 2 RWJF instead of Wyches and Yncarne, but i LOVE the Yncane so i play this instead now.


To add: Quins are for sure better at 1k game, you can take 100 point troupes (300pts) 1 unit of Bikes for 300pts and 5 characters, all very strong, as Dreaming shadow they all shoot when they die on a 4+, most 1k games dont have enough small arms fire (what they are weak too, like Heavy Bolters) to deal enough damage turn 1 and 2 before they can kill you just enough that you cant kill them with lots of shots.

Harlequins are weak to mass shooting that are cheap and AP doesnt matter, Heavy Bolters, Storm Bolters, Assault cannons, etc.. a Thunderfire cannons, Whirlwinds, etc.. wreck them hard. Sisters of battle are a direct counter to them, Those SB doms with 90+ bodies getting 30 SB's and 20 HB's along with 3+/5++ and FnP will always win. But, quins are really good against armies with high AP, low amount of shots, and vehicle heavy. I have never lots any serious game to Marines, Admech, Knights, etc..

 admironheart wrote:
So what is the main role of the Harlequin in a CWE list?

What does the ShadowSeer do?
What does the Troupe do? If you even take one.
What is the role of the Skyweavers?

How small is the most impactful detachment of Harlies and how does it work.

Is it just a counter charge or distraction carnifex or does it have an integral role.

I cannot see a small detachment being board control...So they are disruptive I guess.

I played a 1k point game vs them last nite for the first time...so I have a bit of insight to how they play. They do seem very limited in their tactics.

Main role of the Shadowseer is Mortal Wounds, durability buffs, and Twilight Pathways.

Troupes have a couple possible roles, close combat specialists or fusion pistol drive bys. These aren't as crucial in a CWE list as their roles can be done by Banshees, Fire Dragons, Scorpions, etc.

Skyweavers are a main reason people take Harlequins in CWE. Main role is a Haywire distribution unit, secondary role is a chaff killer, and they do both very well.

I'm not really sure what you are asking as far as most impactful smallest detachment. It depends on what you want. Maybe a patrol with a Shadowseer, a Troupe, and 6 Skyweavers? I usually go with a Battalion with 3 Troupes, 6 Skyweavers (at least), a Solitaire, a TM and Shadowseer, and a couple Starweavers, but that is around 1000pts, then add in a Drukhari battalion and whatever else (unless I'm going pure Quins). An Outrider with Skyweavers is also popular in the tournament scene.

Playing one 1000pt game against Harlequins probably isn't a good measure of what they can do. We said their amount of units was limited, their tactics are not limited nearly as much as you'd expect. I'd submit that Harlequins have more tactical options than many other Codexes that are more fleshed out. Orks for example have a ton of units, but tactically all anyone ever seems to do is a Loota blob with Gretchen and da Jump, along with some variation of 'run at them and hit them'.
That said, there are Harlequin players out there that are very straightforward and use point and click style of play. You may see other players that use genius tactics and leave their opponent with no good options and they've lost the game before they even knew what happened, and everything in between.

Guess I'm just saying they are what you make of them, they can be terrible or spectacular depending on who is using them.

Skyweavers are a main reason people take Harlequins in CWE. Main role is a Haywire distribution unit, secondary role is a chaff killer, and they do both very well.

Seconded.
This edition is a shooty one. Troupes are more a liability these days.
Skyweavers have fantastic mobility and weapons and are able to give each Aeldari army a tactical edge.

Has anyone tried a whole skyweavers army?.. lol

Sn33R wrote:
Has anyone tried a whole skyweavers army?.. lol

The most you can get is 18 due to Ro3, which is roughly 900 points max. So no? That also need CPs and support to function well. I think you get diminishing returns once you hit 10-12 of them to be honest.

 Creeping Dementia wrote:

Sn33R wrote:
Has anyone tried a whole skyweavers army?.. lol

The most you can get is 18 due to Ro3, which is roughly 900 points max. So no? That also need CPs and support to function well. I think you get diminishing returns once you hit 10-12 of them to be honest.

Agree, you dont need more than 12. They are good, but not army full good.

I tend to use them as a strict allied detachment. Shadowseer, two death jesters, a solitaire and 6 skyweaver w/ all haywire cannons and either 4 or 5 glaives

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Creeping Dementia wrote:

Sn33R wrote:
Has anyone tried a whole skyweavers army?.. lol

The most you can get is 18 due to Ro3, which is roughly 900 points max. So no? That also need CPs and support to function well. I think you get diminishing returns once you hit 10-12 of them to be honest.

Agree, you dont need more than 12. They are good, but not army full good.

I am looking to build a all jet bike army. 3 detachments one of each kind of space elf.

Headlss wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Creeping Dementia wrote:

Sn33R wrote:
Has anyone tried a whole skyweavers army?.. lol

The most you can get is 18 due to Ro3, which is roughly 900 points max. So no? That also need CPs and support to function well. I think you get diminishing returns once you hit 10-12 of them to be honest.

Agree, you dont need more than 12. They are good, but not army full good.

I am looking to build a all jet bike army. 3 detachments one of each kind of space elf.

I did this in 7th when scatterbikes were amazing. I ran 6 reavers, 24 scatt bikes, and 4 skyweavers

Anyone used rangers for an additional battalion alongside their clowns?

Thinking 3 units of 5 make good objective holders + in terrain with alaitoc very hard to shift

throw in a skyrunner farseer & warlock skyrunner

384pts & 5 command points

daismith906 wrote:
Anyone used rangers for an additional battalion alongside their clowns?

Thinking 3 units of 5 make good objective holders + in terrain with alaitoc very hard to shift

throw in a skyrunner farseer & warlock skyrunner

384pts & 5 command points

I play CWE battalion a lot of the time along side a large Vanguard of Quins. My CWE has 2x5 rangers and a 20man Guardian unit that DS's. With Skyweavers in front (and Shining Spears in front as well) my characters (DJ's) can hold objectives just fine, then with the 2 rangers, guardians, etc..

Character protection is very good for holding, and when they cant, well 20 guardians can.

I run harlies and craftworlds a lot, with a lot of different detachment combinations, and I have to say in my experience the craftworlds battalion with harlies outrider is the strongest.

I love my troupes, and if they get into combat they will blend just about anything, but it's a big if. The game atm definitely favours shooty armies and 3 troupes plus transports, plus character support, is a fairly big investment.

Having said that, 3x5 rangers plus farseer and warlock do work well with harlies, particularly if you have no death jesters to hold backfield objectives. Doom plus skyweavers is just nasty and with alaitoc they are really difficult to shift. I'd recommend considering some flyers as well though for some extra firepower.

When adding harlequins to cwe, is an outride w/ Shadowseer, solitaire, 1 unit of 6 weavers and 2 units of 3 or a vanguard w shadowseer, solitaire, 2 death jester and 1 unit of 6 weavers better? The rest of the army is pretty basic ynnari build. Yvraine, farseer on skyrunner, 2 units rangers 1 blob 20 guardians with platforms, dark reaper squads, and 2 squads 6 scatter laser bikes.

Vanguard is better, DJ's are really cheap and Solitaires are really good, then you still have room, for 1 unit of Skyweavers

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Vanguard is better, DJ's are really cheap and Solitaires are really good, then you still have room, for 1 unit of Skyweavers

Oh yes, no matter what the solitaire would be brought. Outrighter or vanguard. I guess it all boils down to how many points I want to invest. I just have the mentality of I know the squad of 6 will be targeted hard, and if lose them that is it. Where as if I also have two small squads of 3 then they would pose just as much a threat but are harder to take down, so target saturation. I LOVE death jesters and I own two (I want the old sculpt as a third) but I just feel their mileage varies

Might be able to make a sweet Solitaire conversion with this

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/AdepticonReveals-Mar27-Slaanesh41yycfhhwfdf.jpg

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Might be able to make a sweet Solitaire conversion with this

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/AdepticonReveals-Mar27-Slaanesh41yycfhhwfdf.jpg

Is that a Harlequins kiss she has?4

Its one of the new Slaanesh models and bc the Solitaires wear "the mask of Slaanesh" and plays the role of it, i think its a cool concept model. I will get 1 for sure. Im not going to glue on the claws and i am going to cut the feet off for quin feet.

Quick question lads, can you combine the Heroes path Stratagem with Twighlight Pathways pyschic power for a potential first turn charge with a Shadowseer or Solitaire?

 Elfric wrote:
Quick question lads, can you combine the Heroes path Stratagem with Twighlight Pathways pyschic power for a potential first turn charge with a Shadowseer or Solitaire?

I'm looking for the faq that it was in, but they did FAQ that if you come on the table you can no longer move again. I am looking it up to make sure it doesnt say "Reinforcements"

 Elfric wrote:
Quick question lads, can you combine the Heroes path Stratagem with Twighlight Pathways pyschic power for a potential first turn charge with a Shadowseer or Solitaire?

It's much more useful to use it on a Starweaver to get the occupants into melta range

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Elfric wrote:
Quick question lads, can you combine the Heroes path Stratagem with Twighlight Pathways pyschic power for a potential first turn charge with a Shadowseer or Solitaire?

I'm looking for the faq that it was in, but they did FAQ that if you come on the table you can no longer move again. I am looking it up to make sure it doesnt say "Reinforcements"

I know you can't use this trick from deep striking, but Heroes Path can be used in any movement phase, at the start, then you redeploy them anywhere on the table at the end of that movement phase as long as they are not more than 9 inches. Seems a bit of a grey area, but potentially very effective if this is possible? Is this no different to moving, using "Da Jump", then charging with Orks?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Elfric wrote:
Quick question lads, can you combine the Heroes path Stratagem with Twighlight Pathways pyschic power for a potential first turn charge with a Shadowseer or Solitaire?

It's much more useful to use it on a Starweaver to get the occupants into melta range

Yeah I know that, however I have a tournament next weekend (mono codex) and I am running my Quins as Dreaming Shadow. There are going to be a lot of Tau and Imperial Guard Gun Lines. The idea was to equip the Shadowseer with the starmist raiment, teleport her turn 1, use psychic power, charge, tie up two units as she will be immune to overwatch and then burn everyone else up the board ASAP.

I generally use Twilight Pathways on some Silent Shroud Skyweavers to accomplish the same thing. They hit harder, are tougher, and get to hit again with Cegorach's Jest when the enemy falls back. And you aren't sacrificing a Character and relic to stop a single shooting phase. It's CP expensive, but a single large unit of Skyweavers using Twilight Paths, Silken Knife, Prismatic Blur, Cegorach's Jest, and maybe Lightning Reflexes can practically occupy the attention of an entire gunline, at least enough to set up a killing blow on turn 2 with the rest of your army.

 Creeping Dementia wrote:
I generally use Twilight Pathways on some Silent Shroud Skyweavers to accomplish the same thing. They hit harder, are tougher, and get to hit again with Cegorach's Jest when the enemy falls back. And you aren't sacrificing a Character and relic to stop a single shooting phase. It's CP expensive, but a single large unit of Skyweavers using Twilight Paths, Silken Knife, Prismatic Blur, Cegorach's Jest, and maybe Lightning Reflexes can practically occupy the attention of an entire gunline, at least enough to set up a killing blow on turn 2 with the rest of your army.

Definitely done that in a Ynnariquin list with allarge 10-12 man unit of troupes as well. The troupes with fight twice / thrice, and all the movement can be very good at pinning units and tagging multiple units.

So, FAQ thoughts?


Harlequins sort of got better because of the flip belt nerf reversal. However, the Solitaire lost advance when he blitzes, and Eldar soup and Ynarri really got kicked in the balls. The Solitaire will be better at singling out enemy characters and juicy targets, but his reach won't be quite as good.

At least with the point increases to Castellans and capping their invuln at 4++ sort of helps alleviate the loss of allied Craftworld Psychers a little.

IMO Harlequins got a little better, but Eldar as a whole took a hit.

 Creeping Dementia wrote:
So, FAQ thoughts?


Harlequins sort of got better because of the flip belt nerf reversal. However, the Solitaire lost advance when he blitzes, and Eldar soup and Ynarri really got kicked in the balls. The Solitaire will be better at singling out enemy characters and juicy targets, but his reach won't be quite as good.

At least with the point increases to Castellans and capping their invuln at 4++ sort of helps alleviate the loss of allied Craftworld Psychers a little.

IMO Harlequins got a little better, but Eldar as a whole took a hit.

Makes ynnari skyweavers good. Cast ancestors grace for its guide like ability to Reroll 1, cast the melee doom. Shoot at knight then chargein. You still have the potential to down a knight in a single turn with a unit of 6. If you take an outrider detachment with 2 units of 3 and a unit of 6 you’ll for sure get it down.

I don't think we took that big of a hit. I love my solitare but I never really used it much. The other changes help us more than it hurts us.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Might be able to make a sweet Solitaire conversion with this

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/AdepticonReveals-Mar27-Slaanesh41yycfhhwfdf.jpg

Honestly it seems pretty simple to convert a Solitaire from a Troupe mini. The sprue has a Solitaire mask on it, the only hard part would be putting an Caress on the left arm (you'd have to chop up a couple arms but it's not that bad IMO). There's a skull mask as well, so with a spare shuriken cannon you could make a Death Jester from Troupes as well.

 John Prins wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Might be able to make a sweet Solitaire conversion with this

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/AdepticonReveals-Mar27-Slaanesh41yycfhhwfdf.jpg

Honestly it seems pretty simple to convert a Solitaire from a Troupe mini. The sprue has a Solitaire mask on it, the only hard part would be putting an Caress on the left arm (you'd have to chop up a couple arms but it's not that bad IMO). There's a skull mask as well, so with a spare shuriken cannon you could make a Death Jester from Troupes as well.

The point of that new model is that the Solitaire is playing the role of "She who thirsts" so its models to look cool, i have 3 solitaires, i dont need one b.c i cant buy 1, i need this one b.c its Cool AF and fitting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Azuza001 wrote:
I don't think we took that big of a hit. I love my solitare but I never really used it much. The other changes help us more than it hurts us.

Solitaire is a must for me, if i want to play Ynnari i'll take a 2nd detachment just for it.

I am considering using an auxillary support detachment for my 1000 point eldar list to include a bunch of Skyweavers. They are very potent in clearing infantry and shooting tanks.

Will the fact that I can't use any strategems or faction traits for them hurt me too much in the long run?