Are Obliterators worth their new points cost?

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**NinthMusketeer**

SHUPPET wrote:
NinthMusketeer wrote:
SHUPPET wrote:
NinthMusketeer wrote:
How is it objective fact that an Obliterator unit must kill it's points worth in one turn to be worthwhile? I am pretty sure there are situations where the unit could not do that and still be worth taking. Even the tactical value of having something that shows up and says "you have to kill me" is considerable.

Please don't use the word strawman again, you don't get to with arguments like this and your last one. I most definitely wasn't saying that it's an objective fact they have to do this. As absurd as the counter-argument is that Obliterators are getting multiple turns with any sort of consistency against a competent opponent, while I do think that is flat wrong, I still respect that it's just my opinion and did not describe my counter argument as objective fact. What I said was an objective fact is that THIS IS WHAT MY ARGUMENT HAS BEEN, in direct response to someone trying to warp it into something else entirely and imply that I was lying when I said that this was my argument. Hence the screenshot confirming it. Either spend more time reading or stop twisting my statements into something else.
Oh, well I misinterpreted. No need to be a dick about it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

SHUPPET wrote:
What are you having trouble with here?
You continually diverting into being nasty rather than addressing the questions raised, mostly.

You literally just accused me of strawman arguments and my statements being of zero worth, in response to my logical counterpoint to your deliberately slanted argument. Then when you go ahead and hit me with a complete strawman argument, and you call me a dick for pointing that outDrop the hypocrisy, thanks.

I will happily explain out why that is not at all what I meant if you can be polite about it. In the meantime, suffice it to say this is not true.

**Xenomancers**

I think it's pretty clear that oblitz WILL kill their points value / probably more when they drop - provided they have a big target to shoot at. With DS plus their range they really should. That is why they are good. They probably work best in combo with TS - for an additional reroll for you shots and because they bring a turn 1 deep strike option that can easily clear chaff and get locked in with something and DP to get in on anything that will attak your oblitz in cc - death hex something big turn 2 and just KISS IT GOODBYE.

**NinthMusketeer**

tneva82 wrote:
NinthMusketeer wrote:
I think hand-waving oblits as 'they die and the effort it takes to kill them is not worth mentioning' is oversimplifying. As is saying havocs can be assumed as deployed 48" away out of LoS. Like, the closest unit to them happens to be 48" away and it is exactly the unit they want to shoot? What about enemy long-range shooting, or LoS denial?

48" means any unit that shoots at havocs can be shot by havocs as well. Except havocs can stay out of LOS(you don't play on planet bowling ball don't you? IF you can't hide 5 basic dudes out of LOS your terrain plain SUCKS. No but's and if's about that)

What I mean is that 48" range does not mean the enemy will be 48" away, just as we cannot assume the Obliterators will always be 24" away. 5 guys I can definitely see as being assumed as hiding, but this is 15 guys. With the terrain we have at my flgs could easily be possible, but not so much so that it should be baseline assumed. Regardless, the main crux of my point was that it takes (a not-insignificant) enemy effort to kill said oblits, which I did not see as being mentioned at all. If the oblits are swapped with havocs that enemy firepower does not vanish, it just means it kills something else.

**ingtaer**

As it seems that being polite is too much to ask from some people this thread is done.