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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




New to space marines really love the idea of assault centurions but they are expensive so before I buy I wanted to see if they are competitive or just a point suck?
   
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

Greenblood wrote:
New to space marines really love the idea of assault centurions but they are expensive so before I buy I wanted to see if they are competitive or just a point suck?
They're brutally painful in close combat, and put out okay Bolter support.

Are they competitive? Not sure.
Are you planning on going to tournaments, though? For casual gaming, basically anything in the Dex can work fine.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




An important note about Centurions is that they are the only infantry that are not Core. They will not benefit from most Space Marine buffs.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






HATE Club, East London

So I've recently had my arse handed to me a couple of times by a friend who plays Drukhari. Their new codex is brutal! I want to build a list that can at least compete with him and I own a lot of Space Marines, though most of my Primaris stuff is still on Sprues... We've played so far at 1000 points. He brought two patrols. The first was A Master Succubus with Bloodbrides in a Raider, supported by Hellions, Reavers and Scourges. The other was an Archon with regular Kabalites in a Raider, supported by Incubi in a Venom. He has absolutely detroyed me when I have used fluffy Firstborn marines. It hasn't even been a contest.

At 1000 points, what might work? I have most Primaris Infantry but no Primaris vehicles. I have almost all Firstborn stuff available to me.

I was thinking of putting some Flamestorm Agressors and/or an Invictor Tactical Warsuit forwards in the first turn or two as something which might actually be able to throw out some strong overwatch and reduce the impact of his charges, then keeping some Assault Intercessors off of the table ready to charge in from the flanksonec his army spreads out a bit. I don't own any Eliminators. Should I be getting some to try and take out his Raiders? Or is something else more effective?

Though guards may sleep and ships may lay at anchor, our foes know full well that big guns never tire.

Posting as Fifty_Painting on Instagram.

My blog - almost 40 pages of Badab War, Eldar, undead and other assorted projects 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




The Witches will likely have a 1 CP strategy to just turn off overwatch. I think that firepower is going to work a lot better against Dark Eldar than melee threats will. I have no idea what a specific, good anti-Drukari list looks like though.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






HATE Club, East London

I checked and they don't seem to have an anti-overwatch stratagem.

I don't disagree with you about the shooting, but I feel like there needs to be a roadbump in the map. The wyches, from a transport, deploy 3", move 8", advance d6+2" and then charge. Assuming their transport moved some way across the board, they'll be charging something turn 2 no matter what you do.

The aggressors will put out better overwatch, but an Invictor Suit would not be vulnerable to poison... (mind you, that is where the dark lances come into play!)

If I weren't so scared of poison, I'd think Heavy Intercessors in the backfield would be good, using the Heavy 1 bolters and potentially making good use of the Whte Scar stratagem to turn them into Assault 1 to get them mobile turn 2 AND get them an extra -1ap...

Though guards may sleep and ships may lay at anchor, our foes know full well that big guns never tire.

Posting as Fifty_Painting on Instagram.

My blog - almost 40 pages of Badab War, Eldar, undead and other assorted projects 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Check the Cult of Strife in the Book of Rust.

Flawless Approach (1 CP): One Cult of Strife Infantry unit. Enemy units can't fire overwatch at the chosen unit, or Hold Steady/Set to Defend.

One thing that Drukari struggle with is strong units inside transports though. Most of their offense tends to be in melee, which can crack the transport but is then vulnerable to units getting out of them. Rhino's or possibly Impulsors could be more useful there. Impulsors can also have a fairly impressive amount of anti-horde firepower built in, which is also useful against Drukari.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






HATE Club, East London

bmsattler wrote:
Check the Cult of Strife in the Book of Rust.

Flawless Approach (1 CP): One Cult of Strife Infantry unit. Enemy units can't fire overwatch at the chosen unit, or Hold Steady/Set to Defend.

One thing that Drukari struggle with is strong units inside transports though. Most of their offense tends to be in melee, which can crack the transport but is then vulnerable to units getting out of them. Rhino's or possibly Impulsors could be more useful there. Impulsors can also have a fairly impressive amount of anti-horde firepower built in, which is also useful against Drukari.


Ah damnit. Thanks. We don't use that supplement, but if I use the aggressors like that, perhaps it will just be a matter of time!

Transports is an option, and I am considering it. Impulsors don't come cheap, especially in a 1000point game, but they might be worthwhile.

Though guards may sleep and ships may lay at anchor, our foes know full well that big guns never tire.

Posting as Fifty_Painting on Instagram.

My blog - almost 40 pages of Badab War, Eldar, undead and other assorted projects 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 Fifty wrote:
bmsattler wrote:
Check the Cult of Strife in the Book of Rust.

Flawless Approach (1 CP): One Cult of Strife Infantry unit. Enemy units can't fire overwatch at the chosen unit, or Hold Steady/Set to Defend.

One thing that Drukari struggle with is strong units inside transports though. Most of their offense tends to be in melee, which can crack the transport but is then vulnerable to units getting out of them. Rhino's or possibly Impulsors could be more useful there. Impulsors can also have a fairly impressive amount of anti-horde firepower built in, which is also useful against Drukari.


Ah damnit. Thanks. We don't use that supplement, but if I use the aggressors like that, perhaps it will just be a matter of time!

Transports is an option, and I am considering it. Impulsors don't come cheap, especially in a 1000point game, but they might be worthwhile.

For 85 points DE get a much better transport (holds 10 dudes and a character). It actually flys. It has an impressive weapon...you can shoot out of it. It has a 5++ save. Fights pretty well in melee too. You gotta put 140 into an impulsor to essentially be less durable (vs most weapons) and less mobile and all you get for it is the ability to get out move and shoot...yeah that is a nice ability...shooting from inside your transport is usually better though.

I would pretty much avoid any space marine vehical that is not a land speeder or a LR achilies or a dread.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Maybe a Whirlwind for the suppression fire strat to make a unit fight last?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






HATE Club, East London

EldarExarch wrote:
Maybe a Whirlwind for the suppression fire strat to make a unit fight last?


That might be very helpful...

Though guards may sleep and ships may lay at anchor, our foes know full well that big guns never tire.

Posting as Fifty_Painting on Instagram.

My blog - almost 40 pages of Badab War, Eldar, undead and other assorted projects 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Which are the Best Blue Marines?!
I primed and based my models blue so far, and I'm now stuck deciding between Ultramarines or Crimson Fists.

The collection is all Infantry based, mostly using the Vanguard box. I have Intercessors, Infiltrators, Scouts, Suppressors, Eliminators, and Reivers.

It was going to be a fluffy 10th Company list, before scouts switched from Troops to elites... So I want bolter buffs. That leaves the Ultras and their run and gun Tac Doctrine stuff, or the Fists with their dakka bolters.

What do you suggest? I'm not concerned about Special Characters or vehicles.

This will remain Infantry based, with a few Dreads added in.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




If you're going shooty infantry I'd go Ultramarines simply because falling back and shooting is gold.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Kinebrach-Knobbling Xeno Interrogator





IMO the best blue Marines are the Emperor's Spears
   
Made in us
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler






 Vilgeir wrote:
IMO the best blue Marines are the Emperor's Spears


Seconded. At least for loyalists, anyway.

"Because the Wolves kill cleanly, and we do not. They also kill quickly, and we have never done that, either. They fight, they win, and they stalk back to their ships with their tails held high. If they were ever ordered to destroy another Legion, they would do it by hurling warrior against warrior, seeking to grind their enemies down with the admirable delusions of the 'noble savage'. If we were ever ordered to assault another Legion, we would virus bomb their recruitment worlds; slaughter their serfs and slaves; poison their gene-seed repositories and spend the next dozen decades watching them die slow, humiliating deaths. Night after night, raid after raid, we'd overwhelm stragglers from their fleets and bleach their skulls to hang from our armour, until none remained. But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it? The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The Wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always!" —Jago Sevatarion

DR:80SGMB--I--Pw40k01#-D++++A+/fWD-R++T(T)DM+
 
   
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord






The best blue marines are obviously the Ultramarines. The price of being the best though is the hate that comes with it though. So if you want less hate. Crimson fists are also a really cool chapter and they look really sweet.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in ca
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge



Canada

Considering building a little assault force of marines to play alongside my guard.

My guard have elements, a firebase to set up on my own objectives and screen out my deployment zone, and an armoured element of mechanized infantry and sentinels to push forward.

If I add marines, I'll want them to bring the Emperor's righteous fury in close combat, ideally to press the assault against the enemy's home objective.

To do that; I need units that can quickly get to their deployment zone, alive, and have objective secured.

For "Get there quickly" jumppacks do the job nicely, but so far as I can tell, only Deathwatch can get them with objective secured? If there's a way I'm missing, I'd be very interested in a little Hawk Lord's force of nothing but Vanguard Veterans and Assualt Marines.

Drop pod assaults are gloriously cinematic, and appealing; for objective secured payload that's good in CC; I'm aware of:

Space Wolves Bloodclaws (But you can't take your terminator wolfguard.)
Black Templars Initiates
Deathwatch Veterans in a Proteus killteam

Any other options for drop pods?

Besides that; I know Deathwatch can give Terminators or Vanguard Vets objective secured via Proteus Kill teams.

I could do transports and move them up with my guard; but I like the concept that my guard regiment is spread out in a wide line conducting an advance to contact and voxing the marines for a precision strike force from orbit when they find an enemy strongpoint/HQ/main body force.

Imperial Guard - 1500 GSC - 250  
   
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Dakka Veteran





I believe there's a Warlord Trait that gives Objective Secured to units within 6" (I think). Bring a Jump Pack Captain with that trait and a few Vanguard Vets with Storm Shields and you'll be able to take an Objective quickly and be semi tanky enough to hold it.

Not competitive IMO, but fun enough that I'm wondering about doing that...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/23 07:03:11


 
   
Made in ca
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge



Canada

Arcanis161 wrote:
I believe there's a Warlord Trait that gives Objective Secured to units within 6" (I think). Bring a Jump Pack Captain with that trait and a few Vanguard Vets with Storm Shields and you'll be able to take an Objective quickly and be semi tanky enough to hold it.

Not competitive IMO, but fun enough that I'm wondering about doing that...


Oh perfect!

(It's "Rites of War" #6 of the main options for Vanilla Space Marines in case anyone was wondering!)

Now that opens up all the chapters again and I need to make decisions.

Imperial Guard - 1500 GSC - 250  
   
Made in us
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine




VonGerrow wrote:
Arcanis161 wrote:
I believe there's a Warlord Trait that gives Objective Secured to units within 6" (I think). Bring a Jump Pack Captain with that trait and a few Vanguard Vets with Storm Shields and you'll be able to take an Objective quickly and be semi tanky enough to hold it.

Not competitive IMO, but fun enough that I'm wondering about doing that...


Oh perfect!

(It's "Rites of War" #6 of the main options for Vanilla Space Marines in case anyone was wondering!)

Now that opens up all the chapters again and I need to make decisions.


There is a popular BA relic called Visage of Death that also strips enemy obsec and pairs nicely with Rites of War to make it so your opponent actually has to kill your character to take the point back. It also provides -1 to opponents hit rolls in melee as a secondary benefit.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Everyone see the new CA point changes? Basically small nerfs to all the good stuff, chief apothecary, attack bikes, van vets, plasmaceptors and then mostly only point drops on the worst of the units and probably still not enough to save them. I'm sad all the mediocre stuff in the codex was unchanged instead of dropped slightly. Pretty much means marine lists just got a few % worse instead of getting different.

IMO, the only 2 units that got drops and might be worth considering now are bolter inceptors and eliminators. The eliminators are the ones I want to discuss. At 25pts each they are not bad snipers and at only 30pts even a las fusil seems worth a look, though is probably still outclassed by the 50-70pt melta units.

My question is, even if an eliminator is a decent deal at 25pts in a vacuum, is it worth using eliminator units? Each unit still only averages like 2 sniper wounds, less if you use the carbine for the extra move. 1 unit won't threaten any support character early enough to keep them from getting their value. 3 units can, but that's all your heavy slots and a lot of points sunk for them to just keep a character out of LOS.

Sniping is so hard to judge since plinking a couple wounds off a buff character that still lives to give its buffs for 3 rounds is practically worthless, but once you hit the threshold of being able to 1 round kill a support char that steps into LOS, that's pretty strong. Maybe not worth the point investment, but strong. It's not like tourney marine armies went heavy on snipers before and we're only talking a 5pt/model change. But, that is 45pts overall and the more mobile alternatives did get worse...
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

I was thinking about possibly using eliminators as screens, or at least to have the option of using them as screens. You don't always really need screening units so it's quite nice that eliminators can also shoot stuff. You mainly just want a fairly cheap unit that you can push forward, and eliminators can now do that, I think. They're way cheaper than 5 incursors would be. It's also arguably a unit that's now cheap enough to act as an action monkey.

I'd quite seriously consider giving the sergeant the carbine thing now. After all, you're not really buying these guys for their damage output. This is quite a cool way of getting your squad to where you need them. In theory I think they're even allowed to launch an assault after firing it and moving twice, which could be entertaining. The unit's not obsec of course, and with only 3 guys you're unlikely to take many objectives, but you could tie stuff up.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Toronto

I think at 75pts, they really have a place as a solid utility unit now. Don't take them specifically for sniping out characters, but for scoring secondaries (after CA, there's more action-based progressive secondaries), screening, or nabbing objectives. The move-shoot-move ability on the carbine is particularly good at pulling off some shenanigan's (they can also charge after doing it, or advance, shoot the carbine, and then move normally for 12"+d6")
They also still have the phobos redeploy strat which can come in handy for late game grabs.

Their shooting, while not reliably popping a character per turn, is still enough to keep your opponent on his toes, possibly making them more conservatives with their positioning. They can chip away at support characters (becoming even more prevalent with factions like Admech and Sisters), or pick off characters wounded by other things (like perils, explosions, combats, etc etc). For 75pts, their shooting has much better utility than an equivalent unit like incursors.

So yeah, I think they're definitely worth checking out, just don't lean on them too heavily for their damage output or youll be disapointed. Treat their shooting as a fun bonus.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/01 15:53:19


   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Yeah, all good points with the increased mobility and utility unit potential. They still compete against a 2man vet unit for 40pts with the bodyguard ability or the even cheaper servitors though. More mobile, but also 2x the price.

How many eliminators would you think about taking? 1 unit? 2 units?

Cause here is my concern, if your 1 unit of shots round up to say 1 2dmg shot getting thru on a support char each turn, you can't even really threaten said Sister or Ad Mech support character. Fun bonus or not, if they aren't enough to threaten anything then I have to go back to considering the half price action monkey utility units. If the opponent can still risk standing right there in sight and probably get 2 critical turns of buffs off before dying, they're probably not changing their play and you're not getting full value from the eliminators. 2-3 units of eliminators would make them be more careful, but you're now paying a lot for utility units. And tying up most of your Heavy slots, though admittedly that's a nonissue for most marine lists today.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/01 16:49:35


 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Toronto

You're mathhammering too hard for such a swingy number of shots. They can just as easily one-shot a 4-wound support character as often as they can flub it. Or take a chunk out of a beatstick character. That's a risk your opponent will have to consider when they're positioning. The threat is the possibility, not the average math output.

I think 1 unit is a fun flex pick, 2 is if you have an actual plan and arent investing in other utility units, and 3 is too many.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/01 17:06:35


   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Fair point, EV isn't the greatest tool when only looking at 2 high damage shots. But between hit roll, wound roll, and then presumably some sort of invuln save, it's still much better odds of 1+ shots failing than both landing. I dunno if many opponents would say reduce a good buff aura on a critical turn 2 volley/charge by hiding the char further back on that low chance.

...It just still makes me feel like if I'm going to bother then I want 2 units, but that's coming up with a lot of points from elsewhere...

   
Made in us
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine




If I'm reading the new FAQ update for the core rules right, it seems like the debate about Tome of Malcador being used to get a power from a second discipline has been been settled as not allowed. That's a big bummer.

   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






I think the Storm Speeders are all viable now.

Gladiators are still a bit much but are playable in fun games not being WAAC.

Landraiders are still too much. I'd take a valiant over a landraider any day.

Repulsors are still way to much. Need to drop to the 280 range fully armed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Greenblood wrote:
New to space marines really love the idea of assault centurions but they are expensive so before I buy I wanted to see if they are competitive or just a point suck?

They aren't bad now that they got drops. They with bolters they cost more than a redemptor dread by I think 5 points.
They hit way harder in CC than a redemptor but also move a lot slower. Anti infantry firepower is similar...though Cents are not core and can't get rerolls.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/07 17:20:49


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in de
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






I'm collecting guard, but recently stumbled about a pretty interesting (to me) homebrew chapter which fluffwise seem to use dual powerfists. I'm loosely considering adding a single squad to my collection, but would prefer to have them legal. As IG player I'm a bit overwhelmed by the amount of unit options in the SM codex. Could someone hint me which units can have dudes running around with two powerfists? Effectiveness doesn't matter, it's just about legality

~6550 build and painted
819 build and painted
830 
   
Made in de
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine





Germany

@Pyroalchi: Aggressors are the obvious choice, they dual wield powerfists with either in-build flamers or boltstorms.
Other than them both Vanguard Veterans and Company Veterans can be fully equipped with dual power fists.
   
 
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