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 grouchoben wrote:
"Can't be shot at turn one"
- Can't shoot turn one either.

That's why the concept of a Beta Strike is one that 40k I can see teaches very well.

If you guys/gals haven't noticed there is an undefeated SM list running 2x dakka repulsors and 3x autocannon predators at LVO. Supported by Gman in a mixed chapter detachment for that sweet black templars 4+ deny I think that's pretty awesome.

All that str 5 shooting from the repulsors and an armor skew that has somehow avoided getting instagibbed by all the knights I really wish he was on stream. Anyone know this mad genius who can get some insight onto how this list plays? My guess is screen with the inceptors, scouts and repulsors, smash anything that gets too close with GMAN and pray your opponent only brought enough heavy fire-power to deal with one knight not 5 armored targets?

Another gent did really well with another UM list leveraging biker vets with storm shields, victrix guard and GMAN in a death ball (just a guess) backed up by some IG in the vigilus artillery detachment.

Not a great showing for any marines not running a knight or GMAN but I think we already knew that. Very few primaris models anywhere near the top tables (hellblasters are garbage I promise). But honestly surprised to see a marine armor skew list do so well with all the knights running around.

Mostly play with Raven Guard. Sometimes I use Ultramarines chapter trait. Planning on getting some deathwatch marines.

If I would order some Forge World stuff, what would be good?
Don't really know FW stuff too well but the big dreadnoughts look nice.

So Roboute still carries everything. Hardly a surprise. Was there a reason for the AutoPreds (and if they had sponsons) compared to using Sicarans?

Hey Guys

Aaron Towler here. Im the one with the crazy list from LVO. Feel free to ask any questions you want about list construction, games, tactics ect. Here to help!

@ Slayer -Fan I load my preds out with Pred autocannon and Heavy Bolter sponsons and hunter killer missiles (if I have points). The reason for this is simple: The Kill Shot Strategem (probably one of our best). Gives all 3 preds within +1 Damage and +1 to wound against vehicles and Monsters. Effectively turning your preds into the best armored killers in the game point for point. Predator autocannons become damage 4 and Heavy Bolters and Stormbolters into damage 2. If you run this style you desperately need it to deal with the knight lists. Statistically Kill shot combined with the other shooting in the list you muscle through a Castellans 3++ invul in 1 turn.

The second reason for taking this load-out is you can have these tanks serve the duel role of more anti horde if no vehicles are present. It effectively turns your tanks into anti infantry killers as on average you will do about 25-30 wounds between the 3. You also have to keep them as cheap as chips so you can fill out the rest of the army with enough meat to get you through the game.

Great to hear about the dakka preds doing work. A friend of mine used them right from the start of 8th with kill shot and the warlord trait that adds -1 to AP on a 6 to wound.

I've been planning an all-infantry crimson fist army. Not sure if I should replace my hellblasters with predators. The issue would be that they'd be the only vehicles in my army, so would probably attract a lot of hate. But to be honest my hellblasters would attract it instead if I didn't have the preds. What do people think?

Enron wrote:
Hey Guys

Aaron Towler here. Im the one with the crazy list from LVO. Feel free to ask any questions you want about list construction, games, tactics ect. Here to help!

@ Slayer -Fan I load my preds out with Pred autocannon and Heavy Bolter sponsons and hunter killer missiles (if I have points). The reason for this is simple: The Kill Shot Strategem (probably one of our best). Gives all 3 preds within +1 Damage and +1 to wound against vehicles and Monsters. Effectively turning your preds into the best armored killers in the game point for point. Predator autocannons become damage 4 and Heavy Bolters and Stormbolters into damage 2. If you run this style you desperately need it to deal with the knight lists. Statistically Kill shot combined with the other shooting in the list you muscle through a Castellans 3++ invul in 1 turn.

The second reason for taking this load-out is you can have these tanks serve the duel role of more anti horde if no vehicles are present. It effectively turns your tanks into anti infantry killers as on average you will do about 25-30 wounds between the 3. You also have to keep them as cheap as chips so you can fill out the rest of the army with enough meat to get you through the game.

Relying on Killshot effectively means you NEED to go first though.

Enron wrote:
Hey Guys

Aaron Towler here. Im the one with the crazy list from LVO. Feel free to ask any questions you want about list construction, games, tactics ect. Here to help!

@ Slayer -Fan I load my preds out with Pred autocannon and Heavy Bolter sponsons and hunter killer missiles (if I have points). The reason for this is simple: The Kill Shot Strategem (probably one of our best). Gives all 3 preds within +1 Damage and +1 to wound against vehicles and Monsters. Effectively turning your preds into the best armored killers in the game point for point. Predator autocannons become damage 4 and Heavy Bolters and Stormbolters into damage 2. If you run this style you desperately need it to deal with the knight lists. Statistically Kill shot combined with the other shooting in the list you muscle through a Castellans 3++ invul in 1 turn.

The second reason for taking this load-out is you can have these tanks serve the duel role of more anti horde if no vehicles are present. It effectively turns your tanks into anti infantry killers as on average you will do about 25-30 wounds between the 3. You also have to keep them as cheap as chips so you can fill out the rest of the army with enough meat to get you through the game.

Hey there, grats on making it as far as you did. When I saw you had lost the tiebreaker round I was truly dissapointed as I was really hoping to see your army on stream.

On to the list construction question though, what made you run the specific mix of Intercessors and Scouts that you chose?

Enron wrote:
Hey Guys

Aaron Towler here. Im the one with the crazy list from LVO. Feel free to ask any questions you want about list construction, games, tactics ect. Here to help!

@ Slayer -Fan I load my preds out with Pred autocannon and Heavy Bolter sponsons and hunter killer missiles (if I have points). The reason for this is simple: The Kill Shot Strategem (probably one of our best). Gives all 3 preds within +1 Damage and +1 to wound against vehicles and Monsters. Effectively turning your preds into the best armored killers in the game point for point. Predator autocannons become damage 4 and Heavy Bolters and Stormbolters into damage 2. If you run this style you desperately need it to deal with the knight lists. Statistically Kill shot combined with the other shooting in the list you muscle through a Castellans 3++ invul in 1 turn.

The second reason for taking this load-out is you can have these tanks serve the duel role of more anti horde if no vehicles are present. It effectively turns your tanks into anti infantry killers as on average you will do about 25-30 wounds between the 3. You also have to keep them as cheap as chips so you can fill out the rest of the army with enough meat to get you through the game.

Congratulations on your remarkable performance on LVO 2019.
More so because you managed to finish in top placings with mono-SM list, even with plethora of IG & Castellan lists and Mixed Aeldari lists in the tournament scene.
Lately I have been feeling that mono-SM lists were struggling against wide variety of lists and showing subpar performance, despite points reduction across the codex.
Seeing your placings and list, however, motivated me to review my lists and tactics.
Although Space Marines are far from dominating or taking up considerable part of top placings, I believe your performance can greatly inspire mediocre players like me.

Many questions spring to my mind, but I would like to ask two of them if you do not mind.

First question is, what lists did you face during the event, and which lists proved to be your toughest match?
As a player exclusively using mono-IH(Iron Hands) list, I find Aeldari lists with plenty of flying units to be problematic regardless of missions.
Alaitoc Wraithfighter detachments, skyweaver spam lists, triple disintegrator ravagers galore, to name but a few.
If you have faced aeldari lists including such elements supported by psychic powers and stratagems(especially Lightning Fast Reaction), how did you respond?

Last question is about terrain.
What influence did the size, number, and positions of terrain pieces have on your games?
I seldom see Ultramarine players around me performing well due to how densely terrains are placed in local gaming club.
There are at least 2 ruin/building pieces per 2'x2' sections, and 2~3 large terrain pieces blocking Line of Sight at the centre of the board.
This does limit the performance of Ultramarine lists with Guiliman as an anchor, as clustering around 6" aura yields limited line of sight.
How was your experience at the LVO tables?

Relying on Killshot effectively means you NEED to go first though.

Going first is definitely a plus! Here is the rub though. The Preds are a red herring in the list. Your opponent is forced to shoot at them becuase of kill shot which leaves your true threats (the respulsors) free to destroy the rest of his army. Dont get me wrong against knights yeah losing kill shot hurts a bit but you have many tools in your belt to help you with losing a the strat. The smash capt. and Gman can do it in close combat if necessary and your snipers and HB squads will continue to take mortal wounds off it as the game continues. Against knights you have to deploy very aggressively just in case you lose the role and lost a pred. Proper positioning hleps as well. If you can hid your stuff do it! Dont get me wrong its a tough battle but defiantly still winnable.

First question is, what lists did you face during the event, and which lists proved to be your toughest match?
As a player exclusively using mono-IH(Iron Hands) list, I find Aeldari lists with plenty of flying units to be problematic regardless of missions.
Alaitoc Wraithfighter detachments, skyweaver spam lists, triple disintegrator ravagers galore, to name but a few.
If you have faced aeldari lists including such elements supported by psychic powers and stratagems(especially Lightning Fast Reaction), how did you respond?

Thank you buddy for the kind words. I wanted to set a challenge for myself to do straight marines and see how difficult it would be.

The lists that I faced at LVO were:

Round 1: Admech/Knights/Guard
Round 2: Necron Destroyer Spam
Round 3: Eldar/Drukari
Round 4: Death Guard
Round 5: Chaos DP spam
Round 6 Admech/Guard
Round 6.5: Deamons

Yes Aeldari is by far our toughest matchup. I have play tested against it so many times with this llst and I know exactly what the result of the game is: We typically lose. I tried to put some tricks in the list to help us out though. The smash captain is there to help with some of these threats although I most likely will drop the BA detachment from the list in favor of taking a Whirlwind Scorpius. We need units to be productive every turn and the captain mostly just dies the turn after he comes in. Scouts are BT so we can stop the reapers double shoot on a 4+.

In the matchup against eldar I played very defensively hugging cover where I could and hiding as to avoid losing full vehicles a turn and then when i took damage I fell back with the vehicle and let the tech marine repair. The guy I played ran a typically eldar detachment but also ran a homouclus coven with 2 units of 8 grotesc. I went first baited him with a long(ish) charge. He didnt make it and I was able to at least take out one unit before he went into the building with the other unit. It was an extremely tight game.

Last question is about terrain.
What influence did the size, number, and positions of terrain pieces have on your games?
I seldom see Ultramarine players around me performing well due to how densely terrains are placed in local gaming club.
There are at least 2 ruin/building pieces per 2'x2' sections, and 2~3 large terrain pieces blocking Line of Sight at the centre of the board.
This does limit the performance of Ultramarine lists with Guiliman as an anchor, as clustering around 6" aura yields limited line of sight.
How was your experience at the LVO tables?

Of course! Ok the hardest learning curve with this style is positioning and knowing when to move your models. When I first started playing this list it took me awhile to learn when to stay put and when moving was more advantageous. I played on what I would call most of tables I played on between medium and heavy terrain at LVO. I think I only played on 1 table that had no LOS in a corner and I forced the necron player into that quarter when we deployed. What I typically do is deploy behind the center LOS blocking terrain (in cover and obscured just in case I lose the role to go first I dont have waste CP on the cover strat). I typically pick a side with the biggest threat. Shift vehicles to that side and start going to town. Now that doesnt mean I go all out on that one side. I poke my facing out just enough so I can shoot what I want but I dont expose myself needlessly. it forces your opponent to be less effective with his army and now he as to shift over to shoot you. You will only be 16% less effective on the move with the preds because gman is awesome and the repulsors will still be 100% effective becuase they have machine spirit.

Yeah I’ve had good results running repulsors, though not with predators. Maybe I should change that, as taking heat off repulsors would let them do great work.

I’m keen to try out fielding a bunch of veteran intercessors. I’ve been planning a double battalion but that’s not totally needed, as there aren’t really that many great stratagems to use. The trouble is that the UKGT is only 1750 points, so it’s a lot harder to fit everything in.

Here’s an attempt at a list. It’s 39 points over, which should be relatively easy to fix. My repulsors are built with lots of lasers on but that could be changed, or I could just drop a couple of intercessors.

The bigger problem is a lack of CPs. The list I’ve currently been working towards has two battalions, the second of which is led by Kantor and a librarian, with 15 hellblasters, 2x5 intercessors, 5 scouts, an ancient and no vehicles. That said, I’m allowed to decide whether to dump CPs into making my intercessors veterans. I could do that vs horde opponents but not against armour. So it might be just about ok.

Primaris Captain 92
Plasma Pistol
Power Fist

Primaris Lieutenant 74
Power Sword

10 Intercessors 179
Power Fist
2 Auxiliary Grenade launchers

10 Intercessors 179
Power Fist
2 Auxiliary Grenade launchers

10 Intercessors 179
Power Fist
2 Auxiliary Grenade launchers

Predator 150
Autocannon
2 heavy bolters

Predator 150
Autocannon
2 heavy bolters

Predator 150
Autocannon
2 heavy bolters

Repulsor 313
Las Talon
Twin Lascannon
Onslaught Gatling Cannon
Ironhail heavy stubber
Two Krakstorm grenade launchers
2 Storm Bolters
Two fragstorm grenade launchers
Icarus missile pod

Repulsor 313
Las Talon
Twin Lascannon
Onslaught Gatling Cannon
Ironhail heavy stubber
Two Krakstorm grenade launchers
2 Storm Bolters
Two fragstorm grenade launchers
Icarus missile pod

What I’ll probably do is paint intercessors for now, then see what the contents of shadowstrike looks like. It’ll be out in time to use I think, and might change things a bit.

 Malkyr wrote:

Enron wrote:
Hey Guys

Aaron Towler here. Im the one with the crazy list from LVO. Feel free to ask any questions you want about list construction, games, tactics ect. Here to help!

@ Slayer -Fan I load my preds out with Pred autocannon and Heavy Bolter sponsons and hunter killer missiles (if I have points). The reason for this is simple: The Kill Shot Strategem (probably one of our best). Gives all 3 preds within +1 Damage and +1 to wound against vehicles and Monsters. Effectively turning your preds into the best armored killers in the game point for point. Predator autocannons become damage 4 and Heavy Bolters and Stormbolters into damage 2. If you run this style you desperately need it to deal with the knight lists. Statistically Kill shot combined with the other shooting in the list you muscle through a Castellans 3++ invul in 1 turn.

The second reason for taking this load-out is you can have these tanks serve the duel role of more anti horde if no vehicles are present. It effectively turns your tanks into anti infantry killers as on average you will do about 25-30 wounds between the 3. You also have to keep them as cheap as chips so you can fill out the rest of the army with enough meat to get you through the game.

Hey there, grats on making it as far as you did. When I saw you had lost the tiebreaker round I was truly dissapointed as I was really hoping to see your army on stream.

On to the list construction question though, what made you run the specific mix of Intercessors and Scouts that you chose?

I know right! The last game highlighted to me some additional weaknesses in the list that I will be doing my best to midigate. Keep in mind everything in the army as a duel purpose nothing is just good at doing 1 thing.

9 Intercessors: Make them veterans, up to 36 shots when in rapid fire range. 29 attacks in CC. great for clearing out light troops who try and touch your vehicles. Liberator strat makes them even better as you should be getting an additional 4-8 attacks on average. Then you can always fight twice if you need There are honestly so many applications for these guys they are almost a mandatory in any lists I take as you can put them in the repulsors to save on your drop count too! You need to make the squad as large as possible (8 or bigger) to get the most bang for your buck if you have to spend CP to get the bonus')

8 Black Templar scouts: Sweet 4+ deny any psychic power. Absolutely game breaking if you get it to stop like warptime or another of your opponents important powers. How LVO worked with the Big LOS in the middle is you just deploy them in the building and let them score and stop powers all game. I went with a bigger squad size just in case they were targeted with non LOS powers they could take a few hits before getting killed.

5 Ultramarine scouts with snpers and HB. My mortal wound boys. I needed a scout unit to stay back on my back objectives and giving the squad long range weapons that can also target characters seemed to be the wise choice. This unit preformed ok over the course of the weekend. Not as good as Id hoped but never that bad. With as much LOS blocking terrain as there was the snipers were not as effective.

5 BA scouts: Becuase I had to lol

I've got a few questions.
How efficient is null zone? It seems like a great power but the range is limited, I've got a librarian in terminator armour, is he a good choice for null zone?
What would you reccomend for the relic Deredeo atomantic shielding buff? I'm planning to use venerable dreads with heavy plasma and twin auto cannon at the moment. Does the shielding just have to touch any model in a unit for the whole unit to receive the 5++?

I've got a few questions.
How efficient is null zone? It seems like a great power but the range is limited, I've got a librarian in terminator armour, is he a good choice for null zone?
What would you reccomend for the relic Deredeo atomantic shielding buff? I'm planning to use venerable dreads with heavy plasma and twin auto cannon at the moment. Does the shielding just have to touch any model in a unit for the whole unit to receive the 5++?

Null zone is dicey. casting on an 8 is never a guarantee. Tiggy gives you your best odds to successfully cast. Typically you want to put it on a biker libby or a jump libby so you can move 12-20 " and start effecting units that are far away. Again though its a risk because if you dont get it off your libby is probably dead. The entire model/unit has to be entirely within the 6in Deredeo bubble to get the benefit of the save. Its ok but it does have its drawbacks as you have to basically on top of the Deredeo to get the invul.

Enron wrote:

I've got a few questions.
How efficient is null zone? It seems like a great power but the range is limited, I've got a librarian in terminator armour, is he a good choice for null zone?
What would you reccomend for the relic Deredeo atomantic shielding buff? I'm planning to use venerable dreads with heavy plasma and twin auto cannon at the moment. Does the shielding just have to touch any model in a unit for the whole unit to receive the 5++?

Null zone is dicey. casting on an 8 is never a guarantee. Tiggy gives you your best odds to successfully cast. Typically you want to put it on a biker libby or a jump libby so you can move 12-20 " and start effecting units that are far away. Again though its a risk because if you dont get it off your libby is probably dead. The entire model/unit has to be entirely within the 6in Deredeo bubble to get the benefit of the save. Its ok but it does have its drawbacks as you have to basically on top of the Deredeo to get the invul.

Even if you get it off your Libby would still be dead when he is that close to the enemy and being way too squishy, unless you have your other strong units like Gman or Vanguard or Smash Captain nearby. Or at least have units that bubble shield the Libby.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way, can you use the chapter specific stratagem on mixed detachment? IIRC you will lose everything except the buff from respective Chapter characters if you mix up Ultramarines and Black Templar.

By the way, can you use the chapter specific stratagem on mixed detachment? IIRC you will lose everything except the buff from respective Chapter characters if you mix up Ultramarines and Black Templar.

Yes you can still use your chapter specific stratagem as your units are whatever chapter they belong to. You lose your chapter tactic as a result of a mixed detachment. I dont use the ultramarine chapter tactic as most of my army is vehicles and cant shoot anyway when they fall back so having a mixed detachment doesn't effect me as much.

If your going nullzone, give him a jetpack. Then give him the armor indomitus. Start him on the board with character cover. If you use the reroll you have a 70 percent chance of getting null zone off. That's not a guarantee, but a 70% to allow your heavy fire to absolutely shred units they would otherwise have trouble with can be invaluable.

Terminator Armor is too slow to make use of null zone, so is deepstriking in most cases as well. It requires either a JP or Bike to use effectively

Enron wrote:
Hey Guys

Aaron Towler here. Im the one with the crazy list from LVO. Feel free to ask any questions you want about list construction, games, tactics ect. Here to help!

@ Slayer -Fan I load my preds out with Pred autocannon and Heavy Bolter sponsons and hunter killer missiles (if I have points). The reason for this is simple: The Kill Shot Strategem (probably one of our best). Gives all 3 preds within +1 Damage and +1 to wound against vehicles and Monsters. Effectively turning your preds into the best armored killers in the game point for point. Predator autocannons become damage 4 and Heavy Bolters and Stormbolters into damage 2. If you run this style you desperately need it to deal with the knight lists. Statistically Kill shot combined with the other shooting in the list you muscle through a Castellans 3++ invul in 1 turn.

The second reason for taking this load-out is you can have these tanks serve the duel role of more anti horde if no vehicles are present. It effectively turns your tanks into anti infantry killers as on average you will do about 25-30 wounds between the 3. You also have to keep them as cheap as chips so you can fill out the rest of the army with enough meat to get you through the game.

Great list and hats of for doing so well yours list was the only list I saw in the top 8 that was Intresting you have inspired me to try a dark Angels take on the list and again hats of for doing so well with a cool list

Thanks for the advice, jump pack does seem the way forward generally. I assume a vanguard veteran jump pack will fit relatively easily onto the standard librarian with the staff?
I did think about using the terminator librarian with a group of cataphracti I haven't built yet to jump in behind a group of enemies in midfield to trap them to alleviate some of the limited movement of the cataphracti and perform a pincer type manoeuvre.

Enron wrote:

Relying on Killshot effectively means you NEED to go first though.

Going first is definitely a plus! Here is the rub though. The Preds are a red herring in the list. Your opponent is forced to shoot at them becuase of kill shot which leaves your true threats (the respulsors) free to destroy the rest of his army. Dont get me wrong against knights yeah losing kill shot hurts a bit but you have many tools in your belt to help you with losing a the strat. The smash capt. and Gman can do it in close combat if necessary and your snipers and HB squads will continue to take mortal wounds off it as the game continues. Against knights you have to deploy very aggressively just in case you lose the role and lost a pred. Proper positioning hleps as well. If you can hid your stuff do it! Dont get me wrong its a tough battle but defiantly still winnable.

First question is, what lists did you face during the event, and which lists proved to be your toughest match?
As a player exclusively using mono-IH(Iron Hands) list, I find Aeldari lists with plenty of flying units to be problematic regardless of missions.
Alaitoc Wraithfighter detachments, skyweaver spam lists, triple disintegrator ravagers galore, to name but a few.
If you have faced aeldari lists including such elements supported by psychic powers and stratagems(especially Lightning Fast Reaction), how did you respond?

Thank you buddy for the kind words. I wanted to set a challenge for myself to do straight marines and see how difficult it would be.

The lists that I faced at LVO were:

Round 1: Admech/Knights/Guard
Round 2: Necron Destroyer Spam
Round 3: Eldar/Drukari
Round 4: Death Guard
Round 5: Chaos DP spam
Round 6 Admech/Guard
Round 6.5: Deamons

Yes Aeldari is by far our toughest matchup. I have play tested against it so many times with this llst and I know exactly what the result of the game is: We typically lose. I tried to put some tricks in the list to help us out though. The smash captain is there to help with some of these threats although I most likely will drop the BA detachment from the list in favor of taking a Whirlwind Scorpius. We need units to be productive every turn and the captain mostly just dies the turn after he comes in. Scouts are BT so we can stop the reapers double shoot on a 4+.

In the matchup against eldar I played very defensively hugging cover where I could and hiding as to avoid losing full vehicles a turn and then when i took damage I fell back with the vehicle and let the tech marine repair. The guy I played ran a typically eldar detachment but also ran a homouclus coven with 2 units of 8 grotesc. I went first baited him with a long(ish) charge. He didnt make it and I was able to at least take out one unit before he went into the building with the other unit. It was an extremely tight game.

Last question is about terrain.
What influence did the size, number, and positions of terrain pieces have on your games?
I seldom see Ultramarine players around me performing well due to how densely terrains are placed in local gaming club.
There are at least 2 ruin/building pieces per 2'x2' sections, and 2~3 large terrain pieces blocking Line of Sight at the centre of the board.
This does limit the performance of Ultramarine lists with Guiliman as an anchor, as clustering around 6" aura yields limited line of sight.
How was your experience at the LVO tables?

Of course! Ok the hardest learning curve with this style is positioning and knowing when to move your models. When I first started playing this list it took me awhile to learn when to stay put and when moving was more advantageous. I played on what I would call most of tables I played on between medium and heavy terrain at LVO. I think I only played on 1 table that had no LOS in a corner and I forced the necron player into that quarter when we deployed. What I typically do is deploy behind the center LOS blocking terrain (in cover and obscured just in case I lose the role to go first I dont have waste CP on the cover strat). I typically pick a side with the biggest threat. Shift vehicles to that side and start going to town. Now that doesnt mean I go all out on that one side. I poke my facing out just enough so I can shoot what I want but I dont expose myself needlessly. it forces your opponent to be less effective with his army and now he as to shift over to shoot you. You will only be 16% less effective on the move with the preds because gman is awesome and the repulsors will still be 100% effective becuase they have machine spirit.

The thing about that is you only have to eliminate ONE Predator, and they aren't exactly tough for the price. If your opponents were trying to kill ALL of them, that's on the opponent.

But they need to kill one Predator before they bite off something nastier - like a Repulsor.

A single Predator isn't the hardest thing to kill, but isn't the easiest, either. It's a fair number of wounds to chew through. So you've got a Predator-equivelant's worth of durability of whatever else you chose that's more killy per durability than a Predator, that now survives until round 2. That's kinda a big deal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Enron,
How concerned was your list with Doom?

What do you think about this being a case for the Deredeo 5++ shield? Normally I didn’t think it’s be worth the points cause the Deredeo is one of the best shooters, so they’d likely want it dead shield aura or no. But here, the killshot Predator is the bigger threat, the shield might actually work?

Bharring wrote:
But they need to kill one Predator before they bite off something nastier - like a Repulsor.

A single Predator isn't the hardest thing to kill, but isn't the easiest, either. It's a fair number of wounds to chew through. So you've got a Predator-equivelant's worth of durability of whatever else you chose that's more killy per durability than a Predator, that now survives until round 2. That's kinda a big deal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Enron,
How concerned was your list with Doom?

Nah, it's pretty easy.

"Nah, it's pretty easy."
Lascannons:
(2/3) hit (2/3) wound and (2/3) bypass saves (note that he comments about getting cover most of the time). Assuming the LC didn't need to move at all.
(2/3)(2/3)(2/3)(3.5) is ~1W/lascannon.

That's 11 Lascannons to put down 1 Pred in cover.

Crimson hunter.
BL: 2x(2/3)(2/3)(5/6)(3.5) or 2.6 wounds
PL: 2x(2/3)(2/3)(5/6)(3) or 2.22 wounds
CH does 4.8 wounds.
2.3 of the enemies 3 CH target the Pred.
Only 0.7 CH left to target the "real" threat.

And CH is known to be one of the better tank hunters.

More than 2 fewer Crimson Hunters, or 11 fewer Lascannons, firing at your scariest threats sounds pretty good to me. I wouldn't call either of those "easy".

Bharring wrote:
"Nah, it's pretty easy."
Lascannons:
(2/3) hit (2/3) wound and (2/3) bypass saves (note that he comments about getting cover most of the time). Assuming the LC didn't need to move at all.
(2/3)(2/3)(2/3)(3.5) is ~1W/lascannon.

That's 11 Lascannons to put down 1 Pred in cover.

Crimson hunter.
BL: 2x(2/3)(2/3)(5/6)(3.5) or 2.6 wounds
PL: 2x(2/3)(2/3)(5/6)(3) or 2.22 wounds
CH does 4.8 wounds.
2.3 of the enemies 3 CH target the Pred.
Only 0.7 CH left to target the "real" threat.

And CH is known to be one of the better tank hunters.

More than 2 fewer Crimson Hunters, or 11 fewer Lascannons, firing at your scariest threats sounds pretty good to me. I wouldn't call either of those "easy".

And once again Slayer is proven to not know a single thing about how this game works

Lemondish wrote:

Bharring wrote:
"Nah, it's pretty easy."
Lascannons:
(2/3) hit (2/3) wound and (2/3) bypass saves (note that he comments about getting cover most of the time). Assuming the LC didn't need to move at all.
(2/3)(2/3)(2/3)(3.5) is ~1W/lascannon.

That's 11 Lascannons to put down 1 Pred in cover.

Crimson hunter.
BL: 2x(2/3)(2/3)(5/6)(3.5) or 2.6 wounds
PL: 2x(2/3)(2/3)(5/6)(3) or 2.22 wounds
CH does 4.8 wounds.
2.3 of the enemies 3 CH target the Pred.
Only 0.7 CH left to target the "real" threat.

And CH is known to be one of the better tank hunters.

More than 2 fewer Crimson Hunters, or 11 fewer Lascannons, firing at your scariest threats sounds pretty good to me. I wouldn't call either of those "easy".

And once again Slayer is proven to not know a single thing about how this game works

Yeah let me know when you successfully put a Predator in cover. Ya know, like with any other vehicle.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Yeah let me know when you successfully put a Predator in cover. Ya know, like with any other vehicle.

The stratagem that makes it automatic?

 Insectum7 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Yeah let me know when you successfully put a Predator in cover. Ya know, like with any other vehicle.

The stratagem that makes it automatic?

Wonderful! Got anything else?

The point is Predators really aren't that durable for the cost. It isn't unreasonable to kill one, and then focus on the Repulsors. I don't buy it.

"Yeah let me know when you successfully put a Predator in cover. Ya know, like with any other vehicle."
It seems that people in tournies don't seem to dismiss cover so much:
"What I typically do is deploy behind the center LOS blocking terrain (in cover and obscured just in case I lose the role to go first I dont have waste CP on the cover strat)" - Enron, who you're quoting.

If I can get cover for Falcons and Serpents, I can certainly get cover for Preds. It's not easy or automatic. But then, losing said cover doesn't suddenly make it super easy to kill a Pred.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"The point is Predators really aren't that durable for the cost. It isn't unreasonable to kill one, and then focus on the Repulsors. I don't buy it."
So, you're saying your first 11 Lascannons kill the Predator. Then your next 16 Lascannons kill the Repulsor. Easy-peasy!

Now, that's just the first 27 Lascannons in your list. What will the rest of your list shoot at? (That was sarcastic.)

I too run a couple of times with the 3 preds + 2 Repulsors + Guilliman a while back and won against knights.

I'm not surprised it did reasonably well as a list. It has all the firepower it needs