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Hey Guys


Ive noticed a growing trend in my local area (Hertfordshire UK) of Independant shops ceasing to sell GW products.

In the last 3 months since the last price rise, 3 shops in the local area have all held GW clearance sales and stopped selling GW products entirely. While this has been good for me with some nice bargains (although many got there before me *grumbles*) it cant be too good for GW.
This also doesnt include 2 more that stopped last year either.

The reasons stated when I asked varied from, "not selling well enough" , "need space for different stock" and finally the most worrying "GW's attitude towards us"


Has anyone noticed anything similar happening where they live?

Haven't noticed it here in this part of the US, or on the retailer forums that I'm part of. But trade sales in the US are a much different animal from how the UK independents get treated. UK stockists don't get access to the full range like we do, and have a lot more competition from GW stores.

The nearest independent to me is a small toy store. Their stock is dated and not very big and sold at full RRP; you also wouldn't know they sold GW product unless you came across it by accident or looked at the list in WD.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the dumped it and sold more Barbie/Nerf/Lego.

It is also within 20 miles of 3-4 GW stores and Wayland is 25 miles away.

I'm really not sure why they bother with it?

"GW's attitude towards us"

Common enough reason heard elsewhere. Some shops keep taking GW because it still pulls in customers, it's not because of GW's charm.

It's very sad though :(

All of these shops had been stocking GW for years.
Having a variety of places to go to was great but alas what can one do >.<

My personal dislike goes to one that was driven out of business because GW opened a store to compete with it. Then GW got shirty with deliveries and whingey about stock!
I ended up having a long conversation with the owners about it, made me feel pretty cross!

Yes, here in Gothenburg there's a gaming store called Wizard Games who have almost completely stopped selling GW products. I asked the guy who owns the shop why and he just said that it's way too complicated doing business with them. I don't exactly know why that would be but I know he was honest, I know him well. Now they sell Warmachine, FoW and those other brands like Banebeasts and their business is better than ever actually, I might be getting into Warmachine as it looks kinda appealing.

Does seem that other games are gaining a larger market share. Its starting to happen here too with a couple of shops!

I mean Warmachine has sprung up strongly here in the last year!

Regarding Warmachine, I gave it a go a few months ago and really enjoyed it. Been buying up bits for it ever since!
It plays very differently to warhammer 40k and is alot more tactical

I do still love my warhammer though lol

Haven't noticed this in my area, although the only nearby store is too small to try something as risky as dropping GW from their inventory. What I have noticed is a huge jump in popularity in other systems. My local store doesn't have enough time to give each game system their own designated night.

May have to do with the fact that with Finecast, normal stores are discouraged to be able to sell legal armies.

The poor treatment of Indies is nothing new. The owner of an Indie I used to work at told me that GW were his best friends up until the time when an official GW store opened in the same town. Suddenly, new lines would arrive weeks later, some lines would not be available, the rep wouldn't reply calls etc. And this was more than 15 years ago.

As mikhaila says it's probably less of an issue in the US as there simply aren't the number of official stores.

I think the other gaming systems are definitely gaining popularity though, it will be interesting to see where things go from here, and if the colossus (GW) realises the other games are gaining ground and might pause to try and brush them off.

Thier Modus Operandi is to pimp out GW stuff until your FGS gets a big enough share, then they open up a GW store nearby to slash and burn your local areas gaming.

Grot 6 wrote:Thier Modus Operandi is to pimp out GW stuff until your FGS gets a big enough share, then they open up a GW store nearby to slash and burn your local areas gaming.

To GW's credit, Warhammer has always been fairly popular in my hometown (I think it's generally Magic, YuGiOh and Warhammer that keeps the local stores open) and they've never opened a GW store there.

RatBot wrote:

Grot 6 wrote:Thier Modus Operandi is to pimp out GW stuff until your FGS gets a big enough share, then they open up a GW store nearby to slash and burn your local areas gaming.

To GW's credit, Warhammer has always been fairly popular in my hometown (I think it's generally Magic, YuGiOh and Warhammer that keeps the local stores open) and they've never opened a GW store there.

I think it depends largely on area and volume of sales. In the UK it's a pattern that I've seen in alot of towns near me. Ironically they moved their store in my home town into shopping centre that closes at 6pm and doesn't open on Sundays which more or less killed the gaming nights that the gw store used to do, as a result one of the large independent stores has started pulling back the munchkin market (something GW was always brilliant at, attracting younger players) and has a very active gaming club.

I've been gaming for a loooooooong time and it saddens me to see GW complete it's change from successful hobby company to multinational. They will and have always done questionable things but for a long time they provided very reasonably priced figures that were very nice indeed. I'm still a massive fan of their early realm of chaos stuff and rogue trader marines.

Unfortunately independents are facing competition from two areas. The internet and GW which in a recession must be hurting their sales. If I have to buy anything new I usually buy online from a webstore who do great pricing and next day postage in the UK. 25% off rrp with the recent price hike is substantial and covers the cost of postage easily. Recently I've been trading away my Warmachine stuff (which ironically is less popular in my region of the UK) for 40k stuff.

I suspect that many independents will just find something else that sells and easier to buy and drop their stock of GW until such time as there's a change in operating practices towards stores again.

Lp

When I first got introduced to GW in Australia during the mid-1980s, there were over 200 locals listed in UKWD (for Australia) as selling the product, numerous wargaming clubs, and thousands of veteran wargamers (having grown up with Airfix et al, Micro Armour et al, Battle Tech et al, and others through D&D et al).

With not one GW staff member, let alone a shop, in sight.

We, the veterans introduced our friends, our family, our children, and a few strangers to the GW world.

We, the veterans, created and built the GW following in Australia.

We, the veterans, created the thriving market in Australia.

GW saw the money, and moved in with their shops… now numbering 34, while the original 200+ were reduced to 42, because, while GW were building their retail empire, around 160 shops closed down… their reward from GW “helping and investing” in the local GW gaming world.

Although there are now around 140 locals listed in WD… that’s only 100 new shops, because they cannot compete with GW retail strategy (selling at GWUK factory cost not GWAU wholesale cost).

Why didn't GW sell world wide like Forge World... it's in GB pounds no matter where you live.

Oh, wait... theres no money to be made ripping off the LGS, hang on a minute... didn't Mr Wells say "we are a producer of miniatures, not a retailer... our shops are hobby centres to rip off children instead"... or words to that effect

Mik


edit... 300 posts (not bad for me)

@Lord Castellan Mik

I agree with you on your assessment on GW's predatory practices with LFGS, as I have seen this happen in my region as well.

When a GW store opens up in a area, IMHO any Indie Store within a 25 mile radius that relies on GW products as a mainstay of sales will sure cease to exist in a few years.

This is what happened in my region. Most indie stores that are left are more diversified as they are relying on what sells well in a consistent manner.

It's hit and miss on how hard it hits the local stores I've been too. One could care less how fast stock comes in or not; as their sales are from from dependent on it and rather keep it on the shelves only because frequent customers enjoy the cheaper prices though are often there for other products ((comics)).

The other is a gaming store, which sells a HUGE array of gaming stuff of which I know little about most of em if at all. But the sad part here is that the treatment of the store by GW has left such a terrible taste in their mouths that its as if customers there for GW products are a problem to them. One of the reps will look the other way as if ignoring you're even there when you ask him for anything in the store concerning GW. Talk about FoW or something else and the guy lights right up.

Two other stores I know of, basically stopped carrying. Customer complaints of ordering stuff and it basically never arriving. The store quite honestly is just sitting there as the middle man waiting for said order to arrive to the point they just refund the order to customer and cancel it all. Must say I did enjoy goin' in there the day they 70-80% offed everything to get it out the store. Took them a couple months too because they'd lost most for their area, and the town/city had very few gamers let a lone people whom build models anyhow. But that was fine with me cause it left nice selections for me while there; but sadly mostly fantasy stuff that was left and not very much of it anything I needed for conversions for my armies.



The sickest part of it all is that I think GW NEEDS to employ these tactics for many of their stores. Independent stores often have lower prices than GW outlets; though you do run risk of return policies. They also have larger varieties of things to buy from, not just GW products; and this includes often cheaper building supplies/paint. The only attribute that GW stores often have over Independent is that they have gaming tables in store beyond that most Independent stores have far better reasons to be seen. Thus if GW did not stem flow of product they would hurt more at their own outlets.

Adam LongWalker wrote:@Lord Castellan Mik

I agree with you on your assessment on GW's predatory practices with LFGS, as I have seen this happen in my region as well.
When a GW store opens up in a area, IMHO any Indie Store within a 25 mile radius that relies on GW products as a mainstay of sales will sure cease to exist in a few years.
This is what happened in my region. Most indie stores that are left are more diversified as they are relying on what sells well in a consistent manner.

Vastly depends on the store and the people running it. I've seen a lot of stores give up as soon as a GW store opens up. Not restocking or running events will doom your sales regardless of whether a GW store is nearby.

GW stores are just another competitor, and in some ways, a stunted one. They can't offer what an independent can. Now, the big variable is whether the LGS even bothers to compete and offer it's customers what a GW store can't. You need to run events and compete with the GW where they are strong, and you need to be offering things the GW can't, like more gaming space, alternative paints, glues, tools, etc.

I've got 3 GW stores within 25 miles. I'm doing better than any of them, and the best of them is run by someone who grew up in my store and worked in my shop. GW has had stores in my area for 2 decades. So I'll challenge your opinion a bit that a LGS has to cease to exist in this situation.

Mikhaila Wrote:

I've got 3 GW stores within 25 miles. I'm doing better than any of them, and the best of them is run by someone who grew up in my store and worked in my shop. GW has had stores in my area for 2 decades. So I'll challenge your opinion a bit that a LGS has to cease to exist in this situation.

The indie stores that are left in my region are diversified just like your store is and they are doing fine as I have stated on my last post.

You live in your region and I live in my own. You are doing great sales and that is just fine by me.

Go ahead and challenge all you want. I do not care if you have been hustling comics and games for 2 decades.

You still live in your region and I live in my own and I what I have seen in my region is what I have stated.

Those indie stores that did not diversify with what is popular in my region, and that their main stay was Games workshop are now gone.

Those Indie stores that are in my region that were able to diversify there product line and are within Games Workshop sphere of influence (which in my case is 25 miles) are doing nicely.

This is what I see in my region.

Adam LongWalker wrote:Mikhaila Wrote:

I've got 3 GW stores within 25 miles. I'm doing better than any of them, and the best of them is run by someone who grew up in my store and worked in my shop. GW has had stores in my area for 2 decades. So I'll challenge your opinion a bit that a LGS has to cease to exist in this situation.

The indie stores that are left in my region are diversified just like your store is and they are doing fine as I have stated on my last post.

You live in your region and I live in my own. You are doing great sales and that is just fine by me.

Go ahead and challenge all you want. I do not care if you have been hustling comics and games for 2 decades.

You still live in your region and I live in my own and I what I have seen in my region is what I have stated.

Those indie stores that did not diversify with what is popular in my region, and that their main stay was Games workshop are now gone.

Those Indie stores that are in my region that were able to diversify there product line and are within Games Workshop sphere of influence (which in my case is 25 miles) are doing nicely.

This is what I see in my region.

Heh, pardon me for challenging your general comment of

When a GW store opens up in a area, IMHO any Indie Store within a 25 mile radius that relies on GW products as a mainstay of sales will sure cease to exist in a few years.

with a counter example. You said 'a area', and then go off about how it's your opinion in your area.

Go ahead and challenge all you want. I do not care if you have been hustling comics and games for 2 decades.

Chill out a bit. It's a forum. People are going to disagree with you, especially when you make general statements. I stated it had been 20 years since you stated that in a few years stores relying on GW would go away. It's been 20 years, GW is 1/3 of my sales, I have 3 GW stores within 25 miles. You make a general statement, I made a specific counterpoint.

A Independent stockist opened across the road from the GW and it mostly gets people in for GW products as they are 10% off. Most people go in for other wargames and magic and i won't be surprised if they stop selling it all together

While I have no doubt that GW stores in other area strangle FLGS... in my area there are so many FLGS that it was the GW store (once they finally opened one) that eventually went belly-up...

Vulcan wrote:While I have no doubt that GW stores in other area strangle FLGS... in my area there are so many FLGS that it was the GW store (once they finally opened one) that eventually went belly-up...

Yea that is nice to here that happening in other places. Since 2000 in my region I've lost 15 or so games/comic/hobby stores and since that time there was 7 GW openings and 2 GW store closures.

Owning a retail store in these economic times IMHO is so damn hard, so I give credit to those brave individuals that can be successful in that.