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I want to try out new games so i will ask people is they want to try out a new system like Firestorm Armada. This is an example of the discussion that follows at my local game shop when i try to introduce them to a new game.
Me "feel like trying out this new game."
"no... i like BFG".
Me "Well, BFG is is not really being supported right now, where as Firestorm armada is, and its way cheaper and supposed to be more fun to play."
" Naw, i dont really want to play anything else..." goes back to playing magic the gathering IN A GAMING STORE. Not that magic isnt a game that should be supported, but thats all everyone there seems to do now, since they are tired of playing 40k and fantasy.

This apathetic attitude extends to all things that are not GW and typical reasons why the players dont want to try a new game usually involve the money is gonna cost, learning new rules, but mostly it seems like they lack motivation or are just addicted to GW tit. it even extends to some games that GW does produce. I sold all of my LotR stuff because no one here would try the game, even though i had about 7 armeis painted and ready to go. Anyone have a similar experience.

I simply cannot get my friends into Warmachine.

Some are basically apathetic to anything not GW, and one just hates the models.

The thing is, a lot of people really just aren't interested in playing every game that's released. Or, in a lot of cases, in playing anything other than whichever game they've decided to follow.

That's nothing to do with GW or not. For some, these games are just something to do to while away a few hours... but to others, each new game is a substantial investment in time (to learn the rules and assemble whatever is required to play) and money.

And some are simply happy with what they're playing. Supported or not, if you have a game that you enjoy, there's no particular impetus to go out and try a similar game made by someone else.

Its such a frustrating attitude. I just wish that there was something that i could do to break through to them that GW is NOT the only good game designer out there. If they supported a different game because it was fun, its not gonna kill GW. IT MIGHT even make them drop their prices to more reasonable levels to encourage a return to their product.

Try talking Warmachine players into playing 40k. If somebody has a lot of money invested into one system, they are likely not going to switch systems. I don't think it has anything to do with GW, but more to do with somebody not wanting to invest in multiple systems.

The good thing is that if you choose to play a different system that already has a following, it won't matter if you can convince your friends into playing or not, because there are already other players out there. So if you want to try a different system and can't convince your regular group to try it, try getting into something that already has a following in your area.

I'm barely keeping my 40k hobby alive between work and school and the family.

Another game is out of the question.

I'd love to be able to get into some of the other games out there. Unfortunately, $50+ is a significant amount of money for me right now. So all I can do is continue to use what I have, and maybe save up the money over a few months... assuming the car doesn't eat all my money again.

For some of us, it's a matter of can't rather than won't.

@ Monster rain. I hear you. I have school and 5000$ medical bills for bone grafts i had to have. On the other hand, a Complete set of rules for Firestorm armada, the optional card set, and a fleet costs about 80$. Spartan games is an awsome company too from what i can see here and elsewhere on the web.

I just sold two armies for 40k and about 7 for LotR so i can afford to spend $80 on something new. Have an army sitting around Vulkan.

sennacherib wrote:@ Monster rain. I hear you. I have school and 5000$ medical bills for bone grafts i had to have. On the other hand, a Complete set of rules for Firestorm armada, the optional card set, and a fleet costs about 80$. Spartan games is an awsome company too from what i can see here and elsewhere on the web.

I just sold two armies for 40k and about 7 for LotR so i can afford to spend $80 on something new. Have an army sitting around Vulkan.

you have insurance right?

To be fair, I, too, think it's not just GW gamers.

For example, back in the earlier days of Warmachine, before Hordes existed, and while Confrontation was rather new and popular, I was at the store to demo each of them. I asked the WM player what he thought about Confrontation, and he said "I've never played it. I've already got a great skirmish game".

So it's not GW specifically, it's just a lot of people get really invested into one game and don't really want to try another.

Occasionaly I play black powder with our shop owner. Mind you I don't have to invest into it, I do however spend 100-200$ every two weeks in minis/board games from him so ...

RatBot wrote:I asked the WM player what he thought about Confrontation, and he said "I've never played it. I've already got a great skirmish game".

That's it exactly. If you already have a game that you enjoy, what reason is there to look around, unless you're specifically interested in trying different games?

sennacherib wrote:Anyone have a similar experience.

Yeah, way back in the mists of time when people would argue about which video game console other people should get. People want what they want, and if they're not interested in switching to something else there's not much you can do about it, and especially if they feel like they're being pressured, they'll dig their heels in.

I paint for other game systems, it's just a question of having
the time to have a proper experience playing them.

(By "other game systems" I mean "Not Warmachine" hehe.)

For example, I am painting five Grey Knight Terminators, but
that doesn't mean I'm going to go and play 40k anytime soon.

Bookwrack wrote:if they feel like they're being pressured, they'll dig their heels in.

This especially. My experience is usually to find at least one player other player, and then each invest in the system in question. New players are more often drawn to a game in progress than anything else. The curiosity factor and the "I want to have me a go at that" factor seem to have more pull than just telling someone why they should try a new system. Too often that comes across as "Well, the GW system sucks, you should play my game it's WAY better!" and people resent that.

The other factor is fan attachment. I don't care HOW cheap or good the rules for Firestorm Armada are, I want to play BFG because it lets me ram things with my orks, and perform the odd exterminatus with my Grey Knights battle-barge. I don't enjoy playing it just for its own sake, but also because of the history attached to each faction.

I hear you, dude. I am a long-time CCG player, and it is next impossible to get gamers to put down their Plainswalkers long enough to let me teach them Legend of the Five Rings!

It's a lot easier to get people interested in playing a game if they don't have to buy or paint any more figures or do anything other than just play it.

I've found it quite easy to get people playing Kings of War, simply because you can use warhammer models for it without any problems.

Are there any "BFG to Firestorm" conversion lists out there, or is it easy to use BFG models as a substitute for one of the factions?

That is the approach you should be taking, not "fancy paying $80 then spending a weekend building and painting the models so we can have a game?"

Personally, I am not a fan of the design of the firestorm armada models, they all look like floating boxes or cylinders, completely uninspired.

I prefer both BFG and Full Thrust spaceships.

I'd be happy to play dystopian wars though, the models and background look cool and are appealing to be... 18th century Prussians with Tesla Coil weaponry fighting an Antarctic cult using Alien tech? Hell yes!

insaniak wrote:

RatBot wrote:I asked the WM player what he thought about Confrontation, and he said "I've never played it. I've already got a great skirmish game".

That's it exactly. If you already have a game that you enjoy, what reason is there to look around, unless you're specifically interested in trying different games?

What I would do is try to get your 'friends or gaming group' who are already at there wits end with GW and don't want to give it all up because thats all anyone around there plays. Those are the people you want to get onside with you. Trust me in a FLGS, if there is a group of people laughting and haviing a good time while playing a game, it will sell its self.

I would suggest having two starter armies fully painted and looking nice with bases and all that other jazz, let the person's imagination take hold. Letting the person form a opinion on something while not pushing it on them is a awsome way to get people into new stuff. If you just scream at the top of your lungs about how great something is, and all they are a grey plastic blobs or if you are too enthusiastic that will drive people away.

I am trying to get a friend into Force on Force (modern wargaming rules) right now. I have a 20mm elhiem usmc force and a iraqi fedyadeen army. He doesn't want to invest the money in a army so he is going to use green plastic army men to see if he likes the game before he 'buys into it'.

I believe the problem with most GW gamers is that they have invested such a large amount of money into there armies over the years that they are reluctent to 'give up that investment'. When you try to tell people that 'it's not that expensive' they just laugh at you.
I just bought two armies from Elhiem minatures and two armies costed me £105 pounds, with shipping from the UK to Canada. The marine army is 3 times the size of the iraqi's because that is the army I am collecting. If I just wanted to small playable forces, it wouldn't of cost me more then £40-50. Metal figgies for a £ a piece, sigh me up. =o]

Good luck with whatever you do and I hope you can convince them that 'GW's Hobby' isn't the only Wargamming hobby in town.

I think an earlier comment is correct. Its not that people don't want to leave GW. Its that they do not want to change and invest in ANOTHER game. No matter how cheap some of the formats are, we all know that we are going to spend far more money than is probably sensible on it. We only think of people not leaving GW as its the one that most people will play because they are the biggest supplier out there.

I am constantly trying to get people to try out new games, although our gaming group is quite small now 2/3 are always really eager but there is one guy who is really closed to the idea unless he introduces it. It throughs a huge spanner in the works straight away and then nothing happens because of it.

I think there are lots of reasons. Once invested people don't want to change or they like their current game and don't want to play multiple games. They also worry about the longevity of the game, many non-GW games have not lasted more than a decade, although people arguing this should not be blinkered to the fact GW overhaul their games every couple of years anyway. There's also the designer-clothes aspect, some people just think GW is the coolest kid on the block and don't want to try any products from anyone else. This is true of younger player who are GW purists, because other than having some imagined kudos for being a purist, it's largely pointless.

I'm new to Wargaming so I want to stick with one company even though I don't like them.

sennacherib wrote:I want to try out new games so i will ask people is they want to try out a new system like Firestorm Armada. This is an example of the discussion that follows at my local game shop when i try to introduce them to a new game.
Me "feel like trying out this new game."
"no... i like BFG".
Me "Well, BFG is is not really being supported right now, where as Firestorm armada is, and its way cheaper and supposed to be more fun to play."
" Naw, i dont really want to play anything else..." goes back to playing magic the gathering IN A GAMING STORE. Not that magic isnt a game that should be supported, but thats all everyone there seems to do now, since they are tired of playing 40k and fantasy.

This apathetic attitude extends to all things that are not GW and typical reasons why the players dont want to try a new game usually involve the money is gonna cost, learning new rules, but mostly it seems like they lack motivation or are just addicted to GW tit. it even extends to some games that GW does produce. I sold all of my LotR stuff because no one here would try the game, even though i had about 7 armeis painted and ready to go. Anyone have a similar experience.

wait. So the gist of this is that you're annoyed at the fact that your freind would rather stick with something he knows, saving time and money, rather than only doing what you ask him?

It seems kind of unfair for you to criticise him for not being "open" to new gaming systems, when he's perfectly happy with BFG.

I think it's just "little kid syndrome." Where people don't want to try new things and like to stick with what they are comfortable with. It's like a little kid who thinks McDonalds is the best place to eat...ever. But if they tried something else, they might like it more.

Trying out new things with proxies is very easy and I've done it a few times. I've got a sweet Tyranid BFG fleet made from bits and you know what? I found out I seriously dislike the game, but it didn't cost me anything to try it and I had fun building the ships. Maybe one day they'll be adapted to Firestorm. Same thing with BloodBowl, made a sweet team, hate that game.

I can see someone not wanting to invest money and time in a new game just to try it out, but if you've got the rules and you and your buddy can work out some proxies, but he still doesn't even want to try it....I don't know what to say. Is he just so set in his ways that he won't even try it?

Bat Manuel wrote:I think it's just "little kid syndrome." Where people don't want to try new things and like to stick with what they are comfortable with. It's like a little kid who thinks McDonalds is the best place to eat...ever. But if they tried something else, they might like it more.

Trying out new things with proxies is very easy and I've done it a few times. I've got a sweet Tyranid BFG fleet made from bits and you know what? I found out I seriously dislike the game, but it didn't cost me anything to try it and I had fun building the ships. Maybe one day they'll be adapted to Firestorm. Same thing with BloodBowl, made a sweet team, hate that game.

I can see someone not wanting to invest money and time in a new game just to try it out, but if you've got the rules and you and your buddy can work out some proxies, but he still doesn't even want to try it....I don't know what to say. Is he just so set in his ways that he won't even try it?

While you may have some valid points there, I don't think that you're being entirely fair.

Some people just don't have the time or cash to invest in a new game. You have a scratch BFG fleet, how long did it take you to make and paint? Well that may be time. or even the spare parts, that someone else doesn't have.

Proxies don't always work, I will always try out a new system, but I would ask that the proposer provide the figures, is that fair? No it isn't, but real life eats considerably into my finances and time, so I have to cherry pick what I want to, can do. Then if I do play the game, and like it, there is the implied obligation that I purchase the relevant rules/figures to continue to play.

Bad situation, as the saying goes; You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Cheers

Andrew

Bat Manuel wrote:I think it's just "little kid syndrome." Where people don't want to try new things and like to stick with what they are comfortable with. It's like a little kid who thinks McDonalds is the best place to eat...ever. But if they tried something else, they might like it more.

Thats a bit unfair.

If someone is comfortable with one system and doesnt want to change then why force them. Their happiness at sticking with the one thing is probably the same as I get when I look around for something different.

Each to their own.

I love 40k. I fought tooth and nail to get some of my buddies to switch over from Magic to 40k, and I know they (and frankly I) don't have the scratch to start over with a new game system. They have a hard enough time following the rules as is. A lot of the other games out right now don't interest me, but I'd like to play Flames of War or DUST - the problem is, I'd need to buy an army, buy new terrain, get new templates, and all the other stuff you need to get into a game.

In addition, most other games don't really have plastic multipart models. Converting and modeling are some of my favorite parts of this hobby, and if I wasn't doing those things I'd feel like I was missing out.

Many of you have made great points, like encouraging him to use proxy models, etc. The only thing being that it is encouraged to use proxy models in the game, and i suggested it. There are even VDR etc. The one individual whos reaction was most puzzling since hes bored with 40k just shrugged and went back to his magic cards.

I totally agree with the comments concerning a lack of interest in a full scale change because of commitment etc. But around here where people change up their armies like water in a toilet bowl, and then complain about the direction the game is taking, it makes no sence. I bet the afformentioned person spends 50$ every month or so on magic cards, which by the rules of the game will be unusable in 2 yrs time. The same afformentioned person has in the last three years sold one chaos marine army and bought another, sold a ork army and bought another, sold a nids army and bought another, and sold an undeads army entirely and at a huge loss. When your going through cash on armies this way it makes no sence to me to be unwilling to shell out the price of one tank for alll you need for another entire system.

As i said lots of valid points have been made about GW longevity, following, resale value etc. I think what it comes down to for me is the little kid syndrome. I dont want to try something different. And thats what really bugs.

.

Don't forget that 40k/WHFB have been around a LONG time while most other games have gone belly up. This is probably another deterrant to picking up another company's system.

Adam LongWalker wrote:

sennacherib wrote:@ Monster rain. I hear you. I have school and 5000$ medical bills for bone grafts i had to have. On the other hand, a Complete set of rules for Firestorm armada, the optional card set, and a fleet costs about 80$. Spartan games is an awsome company too from what i can see here and elsewhere on the web.

I just sold two armies for 40k and about 7 for LotR so i can afford to spend $80 on something new. Have an army sitting around Vulkan.

you have insurance right?

It's o.k in Britain with the N.H.S, if I needed bone grafts I wouldn't need to drop 40K. I could have both!