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Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

brugner8 wrote:
Optimum deployment for 40 cultist mob is with an Iron Warrior battallion detachment with a Lord with cold and bitter trait, so they are immune to morale and the opponent has to killl them 'till the last man otherwise you can recicle them with Tide of Traitors.

Also an intersting warldord is an Iron warrior DP with axe, fleshmetal exoskeleton and the trait with the 6++. If needed you can spend a CP and give another 6++, with delightful agonies is unkillable


Are we certain that all three additional saves can be bagged together? Tyranids have a similar arrangement that's forbidden.

   
Made in it
Been Around the Block




Desio - Italy

 lindsay40k wrote:
brugner8 wrote:
Optimum deployment for 40 cultist mob is with an Iron Warrior battallion detachment with a Lord with cold and bitter trait, so they are immune to morale and the opponent has to killl them 'till the last man otherwise you can recicle them with Tide of Traitors.

Also an intersting warldord is an Iron warrior DP with axe, fleshmetal exoskeleton and the trait with the 6++. If needed you can spend a CP and give another 6++, with delightful agonies is unkillable


Are we certain that all three additional saves can be bagged together? Tyranids have a similar arrangement that's forbidden.


There's nothing that specifically forbid this build. The sources for the 6+++ saves are completely different, one from warlord trait and one for Iron Warrior's Stratatagem

Chaos Marines since the beginning - For The Dark Gods 
   
Made in gb
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut





UK

Yea its legal as they are not saves but ignore wound rolls which i think were even faq'd to say they can stack.

that said he's def not un-killable.


 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





I play the Unkillable IW Prince from time to time. And he is quite durable.
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

brugner8 wrote:
Optimum deployment for 40 cultist mob is with an Iron Warrior battallion detachment with a Lord with cold and bitter trait, so they are immune to morale and the opponent has to killl them 'till the last man otherwise you can recicle them with Tide of Traitors.

Also an intersting warldord is an Iron warrior DP with axe, fleshmetal exoskeleton and the trait with the 6++. If needed you can spend a CP and give another 6++, with delightful agonies is unkillable


I'd argue the optimal deployment for a 40 cultist mob is standing next to Abaddon as part of a Black Legion detachment, who makes them immune to morale, rerolling all missed to-hit rolls, and also allows them to advance and shoot.

   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




I thought I was sold on going Alpha Legion, the -1 to hit, infiltrating and the warlord trait are hard to pass up. Not so sure now, for a couple of reasons.
Talking to the guys on the painting/modelling forum about conversions. I like the idea of lots of mutated marines, noise boys, oblits, spawn and possessed. But I've learnt that heavily mutated guys are not really that fluffy for AL.
1/2 my army will be podding/deep striking, rather than taking advantage of infiltrate. I'd only be using it for max 1 squad of cultists anyway, maybe.
I'm liking the idea of large blobs of cultists with buffs, and the +2 CP for Abbadon seems like gravy.
I don't know. I keep flip flopping around. I'm trying to toe the line with being relatively competitive and fluffy.
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

the_Jakman wrote:
I thought I was sold on going Alpha Legion, the -1 to hit, infiltrating and the warlord trait are hard to pass up. Not so sure now, for a couple of reasons.
Talking to the guys on the painting/modelling forum about conversions. I like the idea of lots of mutated marines, noise boys, oblits, spawn and possessed. But I've learnt that heavily mutated guys are not really that fluffy for AL.
1/2 my army will be podding/deep striking, rather than taking advantage of infiltrate. I'd only be using it for max 1 squad of cultists anyway, maybe.
I'm liking the idea of large blobs of cultists with buffs, and the +2 CP for Abbadon seems like gravy.
I don't know. I keep flip flopping around. I'm trying to toe the line with being relatively competitive and fluffy.


To each their own. I get the benefits of Alpha Legion, but Abaddon just makes everything around him so much better. His presence means you get to use Tide of Traitors an extra time with the bonus CP for having him as your Warlord.

If you want to screw with someone, bring 2 40 man units of Cultists and park them on separate objectives. Daisy chain them to get within 6 inches of Abaddon for immunity to morale and the rerolls to hit. Use ToT when your opponent kills enough of them or you reach 4th turn. Then advance right back to the same objective while shooting.

It's a nearly automatic way of getting 2 victory points at the end of the game. By that point, most armies can't kill cultists fast enough and you win the point based on objective secured.

Now... what's better, a -1 to hit or immunity to morale? It's not hard to kill 10 cultists a turn even with the negative hit modifier. Keeping another 10 from running away is what matters, otherwise you are doing ToT before you have to. And the rerolls to hit mean your cultists are softening up your opponent before they get there.

Would something like this work better if you infiltrated the cultists? It's a lot easier to wipe out big units at the start of the game. While 40 models attacking is no joke, it's not the same as taking objectives with impunity. I've never seen a big cultist unit do more than kill small numbers of MEQ.

   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




So i know i'm a bit late to the party, but Ive just heard about the Chapter Approved points changes. The change that affects me the most is the 70pt increase to the Kharydbis pod. This really puts it outside my budget at 1500pts. The Doom siren has dropped to 10, I think I'll defititley bring one now. Considering the huge points drop for the fire raptor I might take one instead of the kharybis, and just infiltrate my noise marines.

How has the point changes affected you guys? Anything yoive had to shelve? Anything thats now more cost effective for you?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Reading some theads about the CA changes. Lots of people are really salty. Lots of the changes seem really weird. Like conscripts costing the same as standard guard. I know conscripts were popular, but how does that make sense? Relating to this thread though, the fire raptors points decrease is strange. Most of the forgeworld changes have been huge increases, but the raptor has been decreased. Maybe the source i was reading is wrong. (Also, talking aboit swapping my kharybdis for a raptor, i didnt factor in weapons cost, so thats probably out too)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All these points changes are doing my head in. Knowing that GW plans on selling a new CA every year, makes me think I might just start playing power level outside of tournaments

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2018/02/17 18:51:28


 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

The KAC change is the one that affected me the most. I liked it as a transport for Noise Marines, now it doesn't fit. I never bring my Lord of Skulls, but now I won't consider it.


   
Made in at
Regular Dakkanaut





Hey wanted to know if i could play my following army on a small 1500 point tournament and not get completely destroyed?

It's a alpha legion daemonprince spam with cultists, not the most competitive but i really love it and want to make it as good as possible without kicking my Daemonprinces.

I took Alpha Legion cause of the -1 to hit debuff, but maybe i should take Thousand Sons or Chaosdaemons?

Here is the army:

Alpha Legion Battalion:
DP with Axe and Wings, Nurgle
DP with Sword and Wings, Tzeentch
28 Cultists with Autoguns
2x10 Cultists with Pistols and CCW

Alpha Legion Supreme Command:
DP with Talons and Wings, Slannesh, WL, Trait: I am Alpharius, Intoxicating Elexir (sry if it's written wrong, but i don't know another word for it )
3x DP with Sword and Wings, Tzeentch, Nurgle, Slannesh

7 CP

I have about 40 Points left over, what should i do with them?

Hope some of you can help me a bit =).
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

Maybe drop every single DP weapon, and see if you can squeeze in an extra prince?

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in at
Regular Dakkanaut





Can't drop the Weapons, since they must have one of the 3 Weapons and each of them is 10 points.

So i think it isn't possible to squeeze another prince in.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

Aren’t the axes/swords like, 40 points?

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in at
Regular Dakkanaut





Not anymore. Since the release of Heretic Astartes, Deathguard , Thousand Sons and Chaosdaemons the weapons are the same pointwise.

So a Prince with wings always costs 180 Points
   
Made in il
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






And that's funny, because the TS/DG princes are vastly superior to others.

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in us
Thrall Wizard of Tzeentch




My favorite daemon prince is tzeentch with warlord trait daemonspark deepstriking in with obliterators and flamers of tzeentch. Does decimator count as a daemon? Be nice to add that to the mix too.
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Spoiler:
 Darksider wrote:
Hey wanted to know if i could play my following army on a small 1500 point tournament and not get completely destroyed?

It's a alpha legion daemonprince spam with cultists, not the most competitive but i really love it and want to make it as good as possible without kicking my Daemonprinces.

I took Alpha Legion cause of the -1 to hit debuff, but maybe i should take Thousand Sons or Chaosdaemons?

Here is the army:

Alpha Legion Battalion:
DP with Axe and Wings, Nurgle
DP with Sword and Wings, Tzeentch
28 Cultists with Autoguns
2x10 Cultists with Pistols and CCW

Alpha Legion Supreme Command:
DP with Talons and Wings, Slannesh, WL, Trait: I am Alpharius, Intoxicating Elexir (sry if it's written wrong, but i don't know another word for it )
3x DP with Sword and Wings, Tzeentch, Nurgle, Slannesh


7 CP

I have about 40 Points left over, what should i do with them?

Hope some of you can help me a bit =).


Well, i think you should grab some fast screens to escort some of those princes.

Barring that, Definitely switch to CD for some deepstrike options and Demonic Attributes, or TS for more durable Princes, with tons of Powers to choose from.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/21 03:31:52


 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




-1 to hit isn't super useful for DPs because you'll likely have them screened on turn 1 anyway. Access to Skullreaver, TS DPs, and Daemonspark WT and the deep strike stratagem is worth changing up your detachments a bit.

If you don't want to alter your list too much just add another 10 autogun cultists to your 28-man unit. Once they've done their job screening on turn 1 you can recycle them into your opponents' backfield and start clogging stuff up.
   
Made in at
Regular Dakkanaut





Thank you all for the help =).

So i am going to switch out the Alpha Legion Supreme Command for a Thousand Son Supreme Command, so the Daemonprinces can get more powers and are a bit stronger.

How can i get all the artefacts into my detachments? I know one is free for one of your detachments.

But is it possible to get say Skullreaver, the Impossible Robe and a Darkmatter Crystal in the same army?


Here is another try:

Chaosdaemons Battalion:
Khorne DP with Wings and Axe, Skullreaver
Tzeentch DP with Wings and Talons, Impossible Robe
3x3 Nurglings

Thousand Son Battalion:
Tzeentch DP with Wings and Sword, Warlord, +1 to invul trait, Darkmatter Crystal
Tzeentch DP with Wings and Sword, Helm of the third Eye
Tzeentch DP with Wings and Sword
1x19 Cultists
2x10 Cultists

Thousand Son Outrider:
Tzeentch DP with Wings and Sword
3x1 Chaos Spawn

Points: 1497
CP: 10
Powerlevel: 84

If it is possible to get all the artefacts, i have to spend 4 CPs on them 1 for the Thousand Sons and 3 for the Chaosdaemons.

Looking for some help here

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/21 08:39:31


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




That list makes me miss that one Daemon Prince formation in 7th to be honest!

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in at
Regular Dakkanaut





You mean Infernal Tetrad or the Rehati War Sect with Magnus



Any thoughts to my army? Is this even possible, to take that many artifacts?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/21 11:11:07


 
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

Nature's Minister wrote:
My favorite daemon prince is tzeentch with warlord trait daemonspark deepstriking in with obliterators and flamers of tzeentch. Does decimator count as a daemon? Be nice to add that to the mix too.


It has the DAEMON keyword, but be advised - it’s best gun drops Mortal Wounds and won’t benefit from Daemonspark. Probably best not to anchor it to this deep insertion force, well, not unless you put it in a Dreadclaw...

Edit: even then, you may as well have just took two Decimators.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/21 12:51:29


   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Darksider wrote:
You mean Infernal Tetrad or the Rehati War Sect with Magnus



Any thoughts to my army? Is this even possible, to take that many artifacts?

Infernal Tetrad. Tons of fun, if unwieldy.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in at
Regular Dakkanaut





Anyone some ideas or suggestions to my army above?

Can i take all the artifacts if i pay the commandpoints? Is there a restriction so i can only take artifacts from one detachment?
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




Your first relic you get for free in your Warlord's detachment, then you can spend the relevant 1/3cp stratagem to take 1/2 relics in the same or different detachment. I assume the CSM and CD relic stratagems are mutually exclusive but I'm not able to check right now.

Strategically I don't think spending so much resource on relics is worth it. I'd take Skullreaver and maybe Dark Matter Crystal and leave it at that.
   
Made in gb
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut





UK

 Darksider wrote:
Anyone some ideas or suggestions to my army above?

Can i take all the artifacts if i pay the commandpoints? Is there a restriction so i can only take artifacts from one detachment?


sure pay 3cp and you can take 3 of them.

think you have a lot of casters there with powers... i think you'll end up running out of decent stuff to cast solely on the basis you can't cast the same twice.

also think you are in danger of getting those DP's nuked before they get into CC without much screening. 6 might look scary on paper but when they are you chief damage units and they really do it best in CC you opponent has at least 1 maybe 2 turns unmolested to shoot them,,, they will die easily unless you have screening or other shooting to back em up.

i'd be tempted to take a unit of 30 tzaangors conga line them 9" away from the enemy for 1cp and cause havoc while the DP's get up there.

 
   
Made in us
Thrall Wizard of Tzeentch




 lindsay40k wrote:
Nature's Minister wrote:
My favorite daemon prince is tzeentch with warlord trait daemonspark deepstriking in with obliterators and flamers of tzeentch. Does decimator count as a daemon? Be nice to add that to the mix too.


It has the DAEMON keyword, but be advised - it’s best gun drops Mortal Wounds and won’t benefit from Daemonspark. Probably best not to anchor it to this deep insertion force, well, not unless you put it in a Dreadclaw...

Edit: even then, you may as well have just took two Decimators.


They're pretty mobile, right? Was thinking using twin butcher cannons to force nasty morale rolls.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Anyone comment on best troop/detachment set-up for ITC? It seems like at least slaneesh Stratagem on Oblits is mandatory (=/- VOTLW) which means for even two turns worth it could be a 4-6 CP Burn. Not counting if you have other strong abilities you want to pop.

Nurglings look good but of course don't give legion trait. Minimum unit strength cultists seem appealing but really limit you from going to two battalions (you will for sure give up repear). Alterntiavely, max strength cultist units are somewhat in vogue, although I am not completely sold on the necessity of brining morale negating (Iron warriors/abaddon) or the use of VOTLW/Prescience and/or warptime on a unit of 40 cultists (that only move 6 inches - 12 WITH warptime). This also eats a significant number of points and still likely will give up reaper against most chaffe clearing armies. Although I guess you do get the 2CP from abaddon which is nothing to laugh at - but would have to be black legion as opposed to alpha.

Are people running CSM? Or is it better just to accept CP cap of 6-8 depending on how detachments are built?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/22 23:35:23


 
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

Nature's Minister wrote:
 lindsay40k wrote:
Nature's Minister wrote:
My favorite daemon prince is tzeentch with warlord trait daemonspark deepstriking in with obliterators and flamers of tzeentch. Does decimator count as a daemon? Be nice to add that to the mix too.


It has the DAEMON keyword, but be advised - it’s best gun drops Mortal Wounds and won’t benefit from Daemonspark. Probably best not to anchor it to this deep insertion force, well, not unless you put it in a Dreadclaw...

Edit: even then, you may as well have just took two Decimators.


They're pretty mobile, right? Was thinking using twin butcher cannons to force nasty morale rolls.


It’s a nice perk. Given that fearlessness is not rare, and it’s a high S medium D weapon, you may well find it shooting something that doesn’t care about LD modifiers. Definitely a nice thing to tag a unit that’s getting Horrored or Bloodlet and increase chance of a wipeout - or of the enemy burning 2CP.

   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




I'm conscious of spamming this thread with all my list ideas/changes. So if you feel like it, pop over to my list thread. I've tried to incorporate as much advice from here as possible. I'd appreciate your C&C.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/751540.page#9850341
   
 
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