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I just picked up my first ever Warmachine model - Sebastian "Grandpa Tesla" Nemo - and I'm trying to design some lists. My goal: a 15 point list (the smallest you can play with) to start with and a 50 point list (the largest I'm likely to play, since if I want to play a huge game I'll just break out my Blood Angels) to aim for. The model itself is pNemo - because I think he's cooler looking - but I'm not convinced pNemo is my warcaster. In fact, I think I prefer eNemo.

But I'm not sure.

If you have any comments about the Nemos and ideas about building lists for them, I'd love to read them discussed here. As far as advice goes, here are some factors to keep in mind:

1) I'm no WAAC, but I do like to have fun. A "fun" list, to me, is one that stands a decent chance of winning.
2) I love warjacks. I want to paint and play with lots of them.
3) I enjoy tricks of mobility, forced movement, and battlefield placement (the last is probably why I'm so fond of Fireflies and Stormsmith Stormcallers).
4) I like the idea of theme lists - and I think I like the advantages afforded by both Nemo's theme lists - but I'm not married to them and could be swayed for or against by the right argument.

Anyway, thanks for your ideas and I hope to read an interesting discussion.

I would try to do a army thats is only Electric. For example Stormknights with ua
Storm Towers
Storm Smiths
Storm Strider
Storm Clad
Firefly
Storm Lances
and the Girl in the horse I forgot her name.

an00bis wrote:I would try to do a army thats is only Electric. For example Stormknights with ua
Storm Strider

Does the Storm Strider count for anyone's theme list?

Only Haley2's currently.

Edit: In no quarter 37 btw

Yupp only haley has a tier list with the Storm Strider.

pNemo specializes in buffing up a single jack and loading it up with focus beyond normal bounds. Since you'll have up to 5 focus on a jack it almost dictates a big melee jack be in the battlegroup. He also likes to have magic casting solos nearby and will want an arc node for his short ranged buffs.
eNemo likes to buff his entire battlegroup at once. He still prefers melee jacks, but having at least one ranged jack is recommended. He still has a few short ranged buffs but they are all upkeeps in epic form, so once they are up you don't need to recast them. He also has a couple of nce effects that span his entire control area and no offensive spells at all. This makes an arc node much less necessary. The general would probably like to have one more jack on hand than his commander version.

A stormclad would be a great jack for both of them, as would any melee jack -from the humble ironclad to the bulky centurion, or the just plain smashy hammersmith. The only downside of the stormclad is that his high points cost makes you put a lot of eggs in one basket. I imagine the new minuteman light jack, once it is released, will also be good support for either of them.

pNemo needs a lancer. Thorn works as an arc node too, but you really have to have finesse to make him worth his points. pNemo also wants solos to cast spells and fuel his arcane accumulator to feed him extra focus. The journeyman warcaster is a standard buy for new cygnar players, but in low points games with nemo you might actually run out of good models to buff with him. Arlan Strangewayes is also a good spellcaster in faction and works well with jacks. Mercenary mages include: both versions of Alexia, Aiyana & Holt, the Ragman, and Lanyssa Ryssyl. Don't feel obligated to fill up on magic casters, but keep them in mind with pNemo since they help in more ways than normal.
Epic Nemo can play well with all of the melee jacks pnemo can, but you'll want at least two. He also wants a bit of ranged support since he lacks the offensive spells of his other version. Chargers are well known to be a great combo with his feat, but a hunter or defender are also good to help soften up a target at long range. The new avenger jack (again unreleased right now) looks like it might be a viable hybrid jack with eNemo.

Here are a pair of sample lists. Please don't take anything here to be required or the 'best', they are merely a couple of functional builds out of hundreds.
Points: 15/15
Commander Adept Nemo (*6pts)
* Lancer (6pts)
* Stormclad (10pts)
* Squire (2pts)
Captain Arlan Strangewayes (2pts)
Stormsmith Stormcaller (1pts)

Points: 15/15
General Adept Nemo (*6pts)
* Charger (4pts)
* Ironclad (7pts)
* Stormclad (10pts)

The difference between Nemo1 and Nemo2 is that Nemo1 is all about making one jack perform superbly. He has out-of-activation movement spell for one jack and can allocate up to 5 focus to single jack. Nemo2 on the otherhand has battlegroup wide movement spell and his feat loads up all of his battlegroup. He also buffs Stormcaller with his special cadre, so if you like those figs he gives a reason to include lots of them.

Both have decent theme lists, Nemo2's theme has more obvious play style but both would like to include units not included in the restrictions.

I guess Nemo2 would be more up to your alley as he supports more jacks and buffs stormcallers.

Really good advice in this thread.

I run eNemo a lot--and would add this for him;

It took me awhile to get my head around the benefits of allocating focus during activation. Two units really got that into my gut though---Strangeways and the Stormclad. If you active them prior to eNemo--you can either leach that focus (Or move it around as need). It's almost like a Warlock for that particular two focus. Plus the ability to 'know' you didn't need to load focus on a Jack due to another Jack over performing is pretty damn handy.

Energizer + his feat encourage Jack overload--as they are both exponential to the amount of Jacks you have. Plus it gives the old man the ability to move up, sling something--then move back 3" to hide.

Stormsmiths become 'very' good with his cadre rule.
Thunderhead gets a 9 inch threat with his energizer rule--so he pulses for a POW 12, then slings another two auto-hitting POW 14s


He's fun to play, probably the most enjoyable caster I've used. He just dies to a stiff wind is all.

Now, a couple of question:

With eNemo, why run Strangewayes instead of a field mechanik crew? Strangewayes certainly has his advantages - immunity to electricity (good in the storm list I want to build), higher personal badassery - but a crew of mechaniks can spread out and repair multiple warjacks at once, and the crew leader could easily be as good as he needs to be with the help of a gobber grunt or two. This is especially important if I field a storm strider (as I eventually intend to because it's possibly the awesomest model I've ever seen), because I'll want someone dedicated to keeping it in good repair.

Secondly, only powers specifically marked as "spells," cast using focus, count as magic for pNemo, right? So, stormcallers don't boost him, but a journeyman warcaster does. Is this correct?

According to Battle College, stormblade gunners aren't worth taking unless you have a warcaster with the power to boost his RNG. Has that been your experience?

Similarly, in what situations should you include or not include the stormblade officer and standard bearer?

Thanks

ElectricPaladin wrote:Now, a couple of question:

With eNemo, why run Strangewayes instead of a field mechanik crew? Strangewayes certainly has his advantages - immunity to electricity (good in the storm list I want to build), higher personal badassery - but a crew of mechaniks can spread out and repair multiple warjacks at once, and the crew leader could easily be as good as he needs to be with the help of a gobber grunt or two. This is especially important if I field a storm strider (as I eventually intend to because it's possibly the awesomest model I've ever seen), because I'll want someone dedicated to keeping it in good repair.

Secondly, only powers specifically marked as "spells," cast using focus, count as magic for pNemo, right? So, stormcallers don't boost him, but a journeyman warcaster does. Is this correct?

According to Battle College, stormblade gunners aren't worth taking unless you have a warcaster with the power to boost his RNG. Has that been your experience?

Similarly, in what situations should you include or not include the stormblade officer and standard bearer?

Thanks

The reason I run eNemo with Strange is for the focus leech. Since eNemo can wait and throw focus on at his activation, Strange can give a Jack focus before---and then eNemo can leech it and either use it himself or throw it on another Jack. It's like having 8 Focus.

Stormcallers do not give him extra focus, JWC does. As does Strange--so with both of them in an army he runs at 9 focus--10 if you include a squire and leech.

I think Stormgunners are worth taking if you include the UA. For one, it makes the unit larger and gives you another boost in a CMA. Second, with the assault order it gives him (and the others) a pretty decent range. Third, they will be 3" blasts with the UA--and might trigger auto hits on heavies for your others. I run mine with UA and Gunners at 50---although keep in mind their assault order is really for multiwound, nasty infantry or heavies. Against, light infantry--you'll simply shred them with the few hits and blasts you get--and not have anything to swing at.

AgeOfEgos wrote:
I run mine with UA and Gunners at 50---although keep in mind their assault order is really for multiwound, nasty infantry or heavies. Against, light infantry--you'll simply shred them with the few hits and blasts you get--and not have anything to swing at.

But against light infantry that constantly out-threats you in melee, you're
assaulting for the off-chance that you might hit them (since nothing happens
if you miss, iirc). You're not going to make in melee with some units.

Ya they are only aoe if you hit. With a terrible rat usually won't happen against decent defense infantry (you may get 1 or 2 to die from shooting).

AgeOfEgos wrote:
Thunderhead --so he pulses for a POW 12, then slings another two auto-hitting POW 14s

I'm confused by what you mean here.

If you are talking about Energy Pulsing then doing Lightning Coil shot I think that would work, but you'd need Focus to buy attacks after a Star action and Coil is ROF 3 not two.

If you are talking about Pulsing in Melee than following up with two punches that wouldn't work because again Pulse is a Star action and Thunderhead doesn't have Virtuoso

Sparks wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:
Thunderhead --so he pulses for a POW 12, then slings another two auto-hitting POW 14s

I'm confused by what you mean here.

If you are talking about Energy Pulsing then doing Lightning Coil shot I think that would work, but you'd need Focus to buy attacks after a Star action and Coil is ROF 3 not two.

With three focus the Thead can pulse and then shoot another 2 coil attacks. If the list includes Strangewayes Thead can do this even if engaged in the beginning of his activation, if Strangewayes uses Evasive activeon on him.

Can't he burn three focus to buy three extra attacks?

Why do you say only two attacks?

edit: Technically, Thunderhead can simply risk free strikes if he's engaged
by stepping back or away from melee. Strangewayes simply makes it safer.

malfred wrote:Can't he burn three focus to buy three extra attacks?

Why do you say only two attacks?.

Energy pulse is * attack on the lightning coil, so I think it uses 1 of the RoF 3 that lightning coil has. If that is not the case, then it is even better.

Edit
Also the tactical tip on Thead says you can make two additional attacks after the pulse, so it seems that my assumption is correct.

Ya its 2 additional shots. That being said if you want to stay in combat all of your other attacks hit as they are sustained attacks.

malfred wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:
I run mine with UA and Gunners at 50---although keep in mind their assault order is really for multiwound, nasty infantry or heavies. Against, light infantry--you'll simply shred them with the few hits and blasts you get--and not have anything to swing at.

But against light infantry that constantly out-threats you in melee, you're
assaulting for the off-chance that you might hit them (since nothing happens
if you miss, iirc). You're not going to make in melee with some units.

Yes, that's right--I've just had a few instances where I ended up killing a first/front line with the few hits I've had---then ended up leaving the others unengaged.


THead has ROF 3---pulse takes a ROF---so I usually load him up with 4 focus on pNemo;


Move up--pulse--auto hits and makes all following shots auto
Spend a focus--make an additional shot---boost it
Spend a focus--make an additional shot---boost it

So with 4 focus a caster takes a POW 12, followed by two boosted POW 14s---all that auto-hit. I love that jack.

Just for clarity's sake it does not take focus to use a star action unless the action itself calls for it. For the Thunderhead you get one pulse for free and then can buy up to two more pulses since it has an RoF of 3. If you had three focus on it then you could pulse 3 times and still buy a melee attack.

You can only use a special action or attack once. Also, since pulse is a ranged attack, coming from it's 'gun', you can't buy melee attacks after unless it somehow has virtuoso.
I have been hoping for a gunfighter/virtuoso upkeep in cygnar since the dawn of mk2.

You're right I thought that the Pulse Attack was the Lightning Coil attack. Be that as it may you can pulse and then buy up to 2 more lightning coil attacks with 1 or 2 focus.