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Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






Columbus, Oh

So, it is like premade decklists? no new content like new cards..

Think I need to get the Arena set asap..

2+2=5 for sufficiently large values of 2.

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Gathering the Informations.

 porkuslime wrote:
So, it is like premade decklists? no new content like new cards..

Think I need to get the Arena set asap..

This should answer all your questions.

It works like this: each player gets a pre-built deck, either by selecting the warband-specific cards for a particular warband or by picking one of the pre-built decks such as Silent Menace, which you can even combine with older warbands from the first few seasons of Warhammer Underworlds.* You won’t have to build a deck – and because both sides now have a deck of equal power, the game will be decided by skill rather than the size of your card collection.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





 porkuslime wrote:
So, it is like premade decklists? no new content like new cards..

Think I need to get the Arena set asap..

The new box has the premade decks and also new universal cards. There about 150 cards in the new box rather than the 100 or so in the old ones. Going forward there will be two ways of playing the game. The rivals mode will eliminate the need to buy every set and is beginner friendly in theory, but a lot of the tournaments will still use the old format.
   
Made in ca
Excited Doom Diver






 porkuslime wrote:
So, Rivals is "premade, stand alone decks" that represent what a warband is like, racially and playstyle wise?

Do we know what era these cards/warbands will cover, like, new card style for old warbands?

If it is NOTHING but a reprint, then long time WU players might ONLY care if the card styles match the new cards..


It's playing with either just the faction cards which come with the warband, or using a preconstructed deck. The faction cards are not new, literally just using the 32 faction cards you get in the box for each warband. Nothing is being reprinted.

There will be no decks specifically for season 1/2 warbands, they have to use the universal Pre-made decks (only Silent Menace so far), as they don't have enough faction-only cards to make a deck with.

I can see rivals being good for new players, but it's going to be hit-or-miss competitively. Some factions (like Wyrmspat for example), have just awful faction cards, or (like Grymwatch) have amazing faction cards. It's going to be a pretty unbalanced competitive setting. There are quite a few warbands which need the universal cards to make up for their poor faction cards, and the Silent Menace deck doesn't work for pretty much all of the season 1/2 warbands (or as it's own deck at all, too many hard and situational objectives).

But, I am excited for more universal cards for Championship play.






This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/15 14:56:31


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 jaredb wrote:

I can see rivals being good for new players, but it's going to be hit-or-miss competitively. Some factions (like Wyrmspat for example), have just awful faction cards, or (like Grymwatch) have amazing faction cards. It's going to be a pretty unbalanced competitive setting. There are quite a few warbands which need the universal cards to make up for their poor faction cards, and the Silent Menace deck doesn't work for pretty much all of the season 1/2 warbands (or as it's own deck at all, too many hard and situational objectives).



The good news is that with Rivals now being a thing, everything released from this point onwards should have a somewhat balanced pre-constructed deck. Also from what I've seen the Direchasm decks are fairly well balanced too, so it's possible they had this in mind when they were creating those boxes.

Beastgrave is the weird one, as you point out - it has legal Rivals decks in every faction box but they vary a lot in power level.

I'd have actually rather seen them do the balance work and create decklists for each of the season 1-3 factions that were their "Rivals" decks, that included most of the faction cards but with a few swapped out for universal cards where needed. Preferably in way that they could all be built at once like the decks someone put together here: https://www.tga.community/forums/topic/17376-best-decks-for-all-warbands/
   
Made in us
Excited Doom Diver






I do wonder as well what the universal rivals decks they will come out with in the future will be like, as presumably, they will want folks to try and use them. Maybe they will be themed towards playstyles or some other factor. Silent Menace is a very aggro oriented deck.

Also, I wonder when we'll see the next FAR list and faq/errata. There are certainly some direchasm cards which should be restricted, and we could use an errata to nerf the wraithstalkers, and an faq to clarify some cards and mechanics.

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Pre orders include the previous seasons warbands without cards including Skaeth’s Wild Hunt, The Dread Pageant, Myari's Purifiers and Grashrak's Despoliers as separate kits for the first time. £20 each direct only.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/10/15 21:16:20


 
   
Made in us
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Gathering the Informations.

Well, I guess I'm getting another Wild Hunt then.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Oh neat, i've been wanting a few of those for painting projects. Finally something worth buying
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







Rivals is just newspeak for warbands not coming with universal cards anymore. A way of marketing a price hike via halving the product as a Good Thing(TM)

Why y'all be buying cardless warbands direct for the same price you could get warbands with cards from an online retailer tho?

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/10/15 22:22:26


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Personally speaking, because i don't want the cards. I don't play this, i just want a couple of the warbands.
   
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 lord_blackfang wrote:
Rivals is just newspeak for warbands not coming with universal cards anymore. A way of marketing a price hike via halving the product as a Good Thing(TM)

Why y'all be buying cardless warbands direct for the same price you could get warbands with cards from an online retailer tho?


Every warband other than the Direchasm ones are now discontinued so once the online retailers sell out of the older stock the only way to still get the minis is direct order, for now Beastgrave boxes at £18 discounted is a better buy but they'll sellout sooner rather than later plus at least now the 4 core set warbands are available separately.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/15 22:30:04


 
   
Made in ie
Dakka Veteran




Ireland

If they do several universal rival deck boosters it is a good way to keep old warbands fresh.

The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused. 
   
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Regular Dakkanaut




Thinking about it, with seemingly just 4 warbands per "season" or half season or whatever it is, and the new focus on Grand Alliance cards, it stands to reason we'll get one warband from each Grand Alliance in the 4, which narrows down what the two remaining ones for this season will be.

Also makes me wonder more about the how the cards are being distributed. If the Warbands have *just* faction cards then that means the Harrowdeep box needs Grand Alliance cards for all four alliances. Which would be odd, as that would mean the box had cards that you literally couldn't use without buying other warbands. That's distinctly not GW.

Which makes me think the two other warbands will at least have the Grand Alliance cards for their respective alliance in addition to the rivals deck.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 DaveC wrote:
Pre orders include the previous seasons warbands without cards including Skaeth’s Wild Hunt, The Dread Pageant, Myari's Purifiers and Grashrak's Despoliers as separate kits for the first time. £20 each direct only.



Thanks for posting that, I'm painting all the Beastgrave stuff at the moment and was getting quite frustrated that the 360 images had been purged from GW's site!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/15 23:58:10


 
   
Made in us
Excited Doom Diver






 DaveC wrote:
Pre orders include the previous seasons warbands without cards including Skaeth’s Wild Hunt, The Dread Pageant, Myari's Purifiers and Grashrak's Despoliers as separate kits for the first time. £20 each direct only.



Thats nice, I've lost my wild hunt and been trying to replace just the models.

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 DaveC wrote:
Pre orders include the previous seasons warbands without cards including Skaeth’s Wild Hunt, The Dread Pageant, Myari's Purifiers and Grashrak's Despoliers as separate kits for the first time. £20 each direct only.



Noticed that, which is nice. Was there a sheet leaking the prices or you going off a guesstimate conversion as other warbands sit around the £15 mark...


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Gathering the Informations.

There wouldn't be a sheet leaking prices if they're direct only.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





deano2099 wrote:
Thinking about it, with seemingly just 4 warbands per "season" or half season or whatever it is, and the new focus on Grand Alliance cards, it stands to reason we'll get one warband from each Grand Alliance in the 4, which narrows down what the two remaining ones for this season will be.

Also makes me wonder more about the how the cards are being distributed. If the Warbands have *just* faction cards then that means the Harrowdeep box needs Grand Alliance cards for all four alliances. Which would be odd, as that would mean the box had cards that you literally couldn't use without buying other warbands. That's distinctly not GW.

Which makes me think the two other warbands will at least have the Grand Alliance cards for their respective alliance in addition to the rivals deck.


The leaked unboxing video out of Italy from 2 days ago confirmed that there are 9 cards for each Grand Alliance in the starter (36 overall). I believe a WarCom article also noted 36 GA cards.

The roadmap article confirmed that the warband expansions this season will contain universal cards (and perhaps Grand Alliance cards). Though I had hoped GW would move away from it, I am expecting the same 60 card packs to continue with each warband expansion.

Henry R. 
   
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 DarkStarSabre wrote:
 DaveC wrote:
Pre orders include the previous seasons warbands without cards including Skaeth’s Wild Hunt, The Dread Pageant, Myari's Purifiers and Grashrak's Despoliers as separate kits for the first time. £20 each direct only.



Noticed that, which is nice. Was there a sheet leaking the prices or you going off a guesstimate conversion as other warbands sit around the £15 mark...


$65NZ is the equivalent of £20 on the UK site so they’ve upped the price by £5 compared to older sets.
   
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£65 was a bit more than I expected for the new starter box. I think I'll pass.
   
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Manhunter





Sticksville, Texas

The unboxing reviews for many Underworlds YouTube and Podcast channels have been pretty dire so far.

The rules changes to discarding your cards pre-game, the way Gloom Hexes are flipped, and the card back changes have been received pretty poorly.

Really wanted to like this season, but I will probably pick up the cardboard components by themselves on eBay and call it good.
   
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Brutal Black Orc




Barcelona, Spain

I honestly think that the larger issue is the 6-months season format. If they keep the 2 blocks per rotation format, that means your cards will be phased out in a year.
   
Made in us
Excited Doom Diver






Well, I put my order in for harrowdeep and I'm getting the acrylic tokens. Pretty excited for the box to come and mechanics this season. Glad I saved my warhammer+ voucher for this.

Looked though all the card and warband reviews this morning and I'm stoked for season 5.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/16 17:09:46


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Yikes, and as far as the rules for the warbands they are looking so hot either for new players either. I really think GW shot themselves in the foot getting so greedy with the unnecessary changes with the release format and card changes. The whole point of Underworlds is that it was more accessible compared to playing 40k/AoS, but I guess GW can't help themselves.
   
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Raging Rat Ogre






All of the changes they announced and the reviews have caused our entire gaming group to dump WH: UW like a rock.

The new €80 pricetag was also badly received and everybody just went in on a non-GW game for our "Covid is over campaign" (Wild West Exodus btw).

All our cards are out of rotation now because nobody played during the lockdowns anyway. To return to a game with almost none of your old stuff being valid anymore, alongside a new price increase AND your stuff becoming invalid even faster really was a bonehead move by GW. I don't even want to organise a league for a game that treats its playerbase this way.

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Underworlds was the one Nu!GW game I genuinely enjoyed. Whilst it doesn't surprise me, I am disappointed to hear they're blowing their foot off with this season.

Good review from Can You Roll A Crit.
   
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The price increase is definitely not a good move but the bad reviews everyone is talking about is the same one from can you roll a crit who has a particular beef with one of the rules.
From the comments section, it seems not many people agree with him.
He also barely mentions rivals mode. A rivals mode done well could fix a lot of the bloat and obselesence problems he talks about.

When someone starts a review by saying I'm trying to be positive, you know they really aren't and it colours everything in the review.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/17 13:32:59


 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Lets face it if the set was £40-50 the complaints wouldn't be there. The price rise is about the only real strong negative.

The shift in cards is more likely welcome since the bloat in the system is a pain and honestly that's always been a huge issue ever since the first game where they put unique generic cards into race specific packs.

GW wanted it to be a "collect them all" game but have steady moved both in concept and price, away from that market.



I wonder if the issue is they started it as a "casual people will collect them" and its turned out more a "existing customers predominantly buy them and most just buy the models for their army(ies)" angle

So the price, product and concept have shifted.






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Manhunter





Sticksville, Texas

 Overread wrote:
Lets face it if the set was £40-50 the complaints wouldn't be there. The price rise is about the only real strong negative.

The shift in cards is more likely welcome since the bloat in the system is a pain and honestly that's always been a huge issue ever since the first game where they put unique generic cards into race specific packs.

GW wanted it to be a "collect them all" game but have steady moved both in concept and price, away from that market.



I wonder if the issue is they started it as a "casual people will collect them" and its turned out more a "existing customers predominantly buy them and most just buy the models for their army(ies)" angle

So the price, product and concept have shifted.







I would still complain at the price you listed, as the set still breaks a promise made my GW, where warbands and their faction cards won't be invalidated. The changing of card backs is GW essentially trying to write off the first four seasons of the game, and get a redo. The rules themselves are a huge step backwards for competitive players with how the discarding of your initial hand works, and objectives now starting as gloom tokens destroy objective play making it even more aggro focused than before.

The system wasn't really bloated since previous season rotate out of the Champions format, very similar to the Standard format for Magic. While there was a complaint that people had to buy every warband to "be competitive", an easy fix for Harrowdeep going forwards would have been to remove universal cards from the warband boxes and release a series of universal card packs like The Essential Card Pack and Silent Menace for each season, since by next October the Direchasm universals would be rotated out. I would have been far happier with that than having GW go out of their way to try and split the game into two eras with the new card backs.

The game never started as a "casual people will collect them" type game as you said, as it has been marketed as "The Ultimate Competitive Miniatures Game" from GW since day one. Even though a lot of AoS and Warcry players have picked up the boxes of minis to use as characters, there is/was a massively healthy Underworlds competitive player base (outside of the U.S.). The game has been embraced by people looking for a fairly solid competitive arena combat miniatures game, the type of game that has caught of since Deadzone, Aristeia, Godtear, ect, and Magic players due to the tactical positioning along with dice based combat and deck building mechanics.

So yeah, completely disagree with your post.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/17 15:29:25


 
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







I'm absolutely stumped as to why anyone thinks Rivals will fix balance.

We've had Rivals since literal day 1. Every single warband that ever existed was packaged with a Rivals deck. It was even wrapped seperatly from the other cards. Thinking Rivals will fix balance means thinking all the stat cards are balanced and all the default decks are balanced and somehow all the imbalance randomly ended up in the generic cards.

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