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How do people use tauros venators? I was looking to fill a battalion and these things look tempting with twin lascannons

What's the best way to deal with a -3 to hit unit using guard?

How do you get a -3? Also plasma guns overcharged obvs. Jk flamers

There are a couple of things in Nids and Eldar that can do it I think. Isn't waiting for them to get really close/going to them dangerous with the flamers?

I mean yeah but if you need a 7+ to hit...

Depends on what it is. If I think I have a chance, I'll try to run up to it and beat the gak out of it in melee. I haven't had to deal with nids yet though, so it doesn't work well, but it actually works more often than you would expect. Otherwise, I try to ignore it until I can't anymore. I'm guessing long term I'm going to have to do a dedicated valk with flamer SWS in it for the occasion, but that's more points than I want to spend on flamers right now, and I think I only have three or four flamer dudes and a converted heavy flamer guy.

Also I guess a Valkyrie with ogryns? Maybe catachan vets?

So are conscripts and a commissar never worth it now? I can only have 3 troops in a tournament early next year at 1k points and I feel like 60+ conscripts might still be a better screen for my shadowsword and russes than 30 normal guardsmen. (Note: it’s a doubles tournament so I’ll have an ally to help screen as well, but still curious)

gendoikari87 wrote:
How do people use tauros venators? I was looking to fill a battalion and these things look tempting with twin lascannons

I personally like Tauros units with the twin las – but I’d only run them as Elysian or Tallarn. Simply, because both allow you to keep them off the table turn 1, so you will always benefit from the invuln save.

Going Tallarn can be a bit of a waste though, as you’re essentially just spending 3 CP for the privilege of alpha strike protection – which “might” be better on a unit of Russes or Hellhounds. (though, I do think the vehicle fits in aesthetically with the whole desert raiding, outflanking style.

Drager wrote:
There are a couple of things in Nids and Eldar that can do it I think. Isn't waiting for them to get really close/going to them dangerous with the flamers?

Sporcysts on Carnifi dont stack with the Shrouding Spores ability. There is an artifact that's -1 that stacks with Shrouding Spores.

 Buzzdady wrote:
So are conscripts and a commissar never worth it now? I can only have 3 troops in a tournament early next year at 1k points and I feel like 60+ conscripts might still be a better screen for my shadowsword and russes than 30 normal guardsmen. (Note: it’s a doubles tournament so I’ll have an ally to help screen as well, but still curious)

Conscripts are now the same ppm as a guardsman with a worse statline less options and orders don't always work on them. Commissar's are of questionable value to infantry

Absolutely.
Here an AM player fields at the 2000 pt level:
Baneblade, 4 Leman Russes, 3x30 Conscripts, 2x5 Ratlings, and some Sentinels.
Its a tough army to beat. Actually its unbeaten.

Resipsa131 wrote:

Drager wrote:
There are a couple of things in Nids and Eldar that can do it I think. Isn't waiting for them to get really close/going to them dangerous with the flamers?

Sporcysts on Carnifi dont stack with the Shrouding Spores ability. There is an artifact that's -1 that stacks with Shrouding Spores.

Lictors -1 stacks with spores as well I think.

Drager wrote:
What's the best way to deal with a -3 to hit unit using guard?

Hellhounds seem a good choice.

I´ve been tweaking my Mech list a little bit over the last days and finally I´ve come to an (imo) pleasing so solution:

#1st Batallion - Tallarn

- Company Commander
- 2x Primaris Psyker
- 3x Infantry Squads with Plasma
- 3x Gryphonne Chimera with Twin HB + HB + SB
- 3x Scout Sentinel with missle launcher (love the versatility)


#2nd Battalion - Tallarn
- Company Commander
- Tempestor Prime with Command Rod
- 1x Infantry Squad with Plasma
- 1x Gryphonne Chimera with twin HB + HB + SB
- 2 x 5 Scions with 2x Plasma + Plasma Pistol


# Spearhead - Catachan
- Tank Commander with Battle Canon + Lascanon
- HWT with Mortar
- 4 x Leman Russ Conqueror with 1 HF each


Alternative: I could swap out 2 Conquerors for 2 Hellhounds + a Basilisk


So yeah, what do you think about this list?

 lash92 wrote:
I´ve been tweaking my Mech list a little bit over the last days and finally I´ve come to an (imo) pleasing so solution:

#1st Batallion - Tallarn

- Company Commander
- 2x Primaris Psyker
- 3x Infantry Squads with Plasma
- 3x Gryphonne Chimera with Twin HB + HB + SB
- 3x Scout Sentinel with missle launcher (love the versatility)


#2nd Battalion - Tallarn
- Company Commander
- Tempestor Prime with Command Rod
- 1x Infantry Squad with Plasma
- 1x Gryphonne Chimera with twin HB + HB + SB
- 2 x 5 Scions with 2x Plasma + Plasma Pistol


# Spearhead - Catachan
- Tank Commander with Battle Canon + Lascanon
- HWT with Mortar
- 4 x Leman Russ Conqueror with 1 HF each


Alternative: I could swap out 2 Conquerors for 2 Hellhounds + a Basilisk


So yeah, what do you think about this list?

Depends what you want the Chimera's for, but, i'd prob drop some of them for the Hellhounds and Basilisks rather than some Conquerors.

Kdash wrote:

Depends what you want the Chimera's for, but, i'd prob drop some of them for the Hellhounds and Basilisks rather than some Conquerors.

The Chimeras are for the 4 Infantry Squads. So I can either drive them up, if I´m playing against shooty armies or I have some chaff against assault armies.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Absolutely.
Here an AM player fields at the 2000 pt level:
Baneblade, 4 Leman Russes, 3x30 Conscripts, 2x5 Ratlings, and some Sentinels.
Its a tough army to beat. Actually its unbeaten.

That’s pretty close to what I’d like to play. You don’t find the conscripts just getting wiped out now during the morale phase?

So has anyone else considered plasmacutioners with the overlapping fields of fire strategem to reduce or eliminate taking wounds from the overcharged plasma?

 Buzzdady wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Absolutely.
Here an AM player fields at the 2000 pt level:
Baneblade, 4 Leman Russes, 3x30 Conscripts, 2x5 Ratlings, and some Sentinels.
Its a tough army to beat. Actually its unbeaten.

That’s pretty close to what I’d like to play. You don’t find the conscripts just getting wiped out now during the morale phase?

That's the trick.

Punching a hole in a 3x10 screen of regular guards is easy with a bit of shooting since you are limited in your choices when it comes to removing casualties. With a unit of 30 conscripts it is much harder, and even if they are going to run away in the morale phase, you have already shielded the assault phase. Even better, whatever put your conscripts in melee is now throwing punches in the air and can be shot away from the table, while with regular guards you are easily surrounded without a chance to fall back.
3x30 conscripts should last for a couple of turns, enough time for the rest of the list to do it's dirty work.

U02dah4 wrote:

 Buzzdady wrote:
So are conscripts and a commissar never worth it now? I can only have 3 troops in a tournament early next year at 1k points and I feel like 60+ conscripts might still be a better screen for my shadowsword and russes than 30 normal guardsmen. (Note: it’s a doubles tournament so I’ll have an ally to help screen as well, but still curious)

Conscripts are now the same ppm as a guardsman with a worse statline less options and orders don't always work on them. Commissar's are of questionable value to infantry

Well, as already pointed out, conscripts still benefit from the fact that they won't be depleted as easily as regular infantry, since you can still have a 30 man blob as opposed to 3 x 10 man squads where it's limited how you remove casualties. Imo it all comes down to what you're trying to do. It seems afaik that conscripts are still the better screening choice for tanks, because of the numbers you can take them in. They are just more cannon fodder with the nerf.

The upside with normal infantry is that they've got better baseline stats and can hit better than conscripts, so you might get a couple more wounds/more mileage. As screens, they aren't amazing, in pure theoretical terms. Depends on how you're structuring your list though.

The main really dumb nerf IMHO is the commissar. Commissars are now next to useless, if not completely useless. It seems less like a nerf and more like completing killing a unit.

If you really want to play valhallans (or include a conscript screen), make a Battalion detachment of 3 30-man squads, a Company Commander, and a Primaris Psyker.

You can give the Company Commander the Valhallan relic, which does what the old Commissars used to do, and the Primaris Psyker can help the rest of your army.

You also gain 3CP, which you can put into Imperial Commander's Armoury stratagem if you want more relics, or do whatever!

 deltaKshatriya wrote:

The main really dumb nerf IMHO is the commissar. Commissars are now next to useless, if not completely useless. It seems less like a nerf and more like completing killing a unit.

Yeah this seems true. You are basically failing your morale roll by one...to have a chance to fail it even worse, because in a situation where you need a Commissar to stem the tide you are likely needing a 1 or 2 anyway. Fishing for a 1/6 roll is just not something I want to be doing. Seems like for the cost of the units you would be using a Commissar on you should just take your lumps and move on.

Additionally, if you are taking Catachan (say for the weapon attack rerolls) your infantry are now Ld 8 while their sergeant remains alive, and while he is within 6" of a Company Commander...which doesn't seem hard to do since I am using them to fill out every HQ slot. So in this situation losing half your 10-man infantry squad is still only a natural 50/50 to lose more models to morale. There is no way wasting points on a Commissar makes sense.

Yeah I switched to Catachan, started using 1 command squad with a banner and haven't looked back.

 Colonel Cross wrote:
Yeah I switched to Catachan, started using 1 command squad with a banner and haven't looked back.

This works however DKOK infantry are immune to casualties caused in the shooting phase. Which Is all you really need for a good screening unit And if you want to make pseudo conscript blobs just use the combined squad stratagem.
I'm also a fan of death riders and a single unassuming squad of engineers who use the grenade stratagem to acid bomb a unit to death or carcass shot a low armor unit to death.

You know, I'm not sure how many people have realized what a Combat Engineer squad can do with that grenade stratagem! Potentially 9 kraks and 1 melta bomb or all acid bombs. That is crazy good.

 exliontamer wrote:

 deltaKshatriya wrote:

The main really dumb nerf IMHO is the commissar. Commissars are now next to useless, if not completely useless. It seems less like a nerf and more like completing killing a unit.

Yeah this seems true. You are basically failing your morale roll by one...to have a chance to fail it even worse, because in a situation where you need a Commissar to stem the tide you are likely needing a 1 or 2 anyway. Fishing for a 1/6 roll is just not something I want to be doing. Seems like for the cost of the units you would be using a Commissar on you should just take your lumps and move on.

Additionally, if you are taking Catachan (say for the weapon attack rerolls) your infantry are now Ld 8 while their sergeant remains alive, and while he is within 6" of a Company Commander...which doesn't seem hard to do since I am using them to fill out every HQ slot. So in this situation losing half your 10-man infantry squad is still only a natural 50/50 to lose more models to morale. There is no way wasting points on a Commissar makes sense.

Exactly, it's just not worth the points for a bare bones upgrade, and commissars don't do much else other than that. There are other models/regiments that to LD buffs better than something like a commissar. I mean I get the conscript nerf. Even the point increase isn't a huge deal, though maybe a bit unnecessary. The commissar is now actually a useless model. There are no scenarios where it will ever be useful. What would have made more sense is if they had done re-roll with -3 or something similar.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Anything that can target characters. "Snipers aren't eff-" yeah I know they're not points efficient. They still have the potential to drop critical officers every turn until you deal with them. If they get lucky and kill an officer it's really annoying and a big deal. Not just for shooting, but because the officers are how you sprint for objectives, fall back from combat and fire again, allow you to advance and fire, etc. This also counts for psychic things like Mind War or special abilities, some of which can target a character even if there's screening units and most of these can hurt if you're unlucky. Officers are an incredibly important lynchpin anytime you're bringing infantry. If they start going down your infantry only fight about half as well as they would otherwise. It's not really fair to compare using say 200pts of snipers to kill a company commander either. You're not just killing a 30pt model, you're also affecting around 100pts worth of guardsmen from activating at their best. This means not as many rerolls, not as many 20" sprints for objectives, not as much lasgun fire, etc.

Yeah snipers real help comes not so much from points they kill but EFFECT those kills have. Killing key model or two can have bigger effect than killing more points elsewhere. Albeit this example is from 7th ed but importance actually increases IMO in 8th ed with more aura buffs etc but last 30k tournament I went in last game alpha legion snipers really put dent on my plan with couple well placed shots that while point wise was lousy trade it basically neutered two units pretty well leaving them helpless against incoming alpha legion swarm.

Force multipliers dead is worth more than just their points.

Let’s be honest.... snipers main job is deep strike denial

Okay out of curiosity how competent this list is? I think this might be closest thing to cheesy list I have ever built though it was just made of models I bought and painted like 2-3 years ago and fitted to tournament rules(opponent wanted to practice for that) so max 1 of each detachment and max 2 of same units. That explains conscripts rather than more infantry...Needed that 3rd troop to be non-infantry squad and no tempestus models. 1750 pts

Cadian battalion:

Company commander
Pask w/punisher, multi-melta sponsons, lascannon
tank commander w/executioner, hull heavy bolter, plasma sponsons
command squad w/heavy flamer, 3xflamer
2xinfantry squad w/autocannon&flamer
20xconscript
leman russ w/battle cannon, 3xheavy bolter
manticore
chimera w/multi-laser & heavy bolter

Cadian spearhead:

company commander
Special weapon squad w/2xplasma, 1xflamer
special weapon squad w/3xflamer
wyvern
leman russ w/battle cannon, 3xheavy bolter
heavy weapon squad w/3xautocannon
chimera w/2xheavy flamer

For warlord(one of company commander) regain CP warlord trait and get CP on 5+ if enemy uses strategem. I screwed up and didn't remember to use the cadian strategem though apart from lucky heavy bolter gaining hit and causing critical wound wouldn't have really helped.

Anyway I was bit limited by the max 2 same units(I almost thought I couldn't make even legal list until I remembered pask & tank commander don't count as leman russ for that and troop issue I could solve by taking the now crap conscripts. IG tax) and lack of models so lacking plasma, lascannons, tempestus etc.

Anyway faced grey kngiths with termi HQ, FA and HS power armour troops, 2 squads of paladins, 2 regular dreadknights and some adeptus ministorum allies in rhino.

I seized yey! First turn I just dented rhinio's and killed like 1 PA guy. He comes in but even with charge rerolls best he got was dreadknight into conscripts and warlord alone into multilaser rhino. And FA squad teleported into left flank where my manticore was alone(oops mistake though I had trouble fitting all behind infantry screen anyway) and charged so that was out of action for game.

I felt pretty good especially as conscripts much to common hilarity had taken 3 wounds out on overwatch, 3 wounds, 3 1's. My 1st turn had been more pants than I had hoped(10 wounds to 2 rhino's combined and 1 PA guy...) but 2nd turn was looking good. I had warlord out alone, one dreadknight to 1 wound and second still to come. I figured I kill those two, hopefully don't need to use executioner for that so can torch one paladin squad and I'm fairly far away...

Then I promptly only cause 3 wounds to the HQ with my command squad flamer. That's it. Literally. Apart from manticore and the chimera's(one too far, one had to fall back) fired and I didn't get single wound through...

His turn he starts tagging stuff into combat, prevents executioner overwatching with inquisitor, blew conscripts out and I'm starting to lose stuff. Only saving grace was his HQ smiting my chimera which blew and took the warlord with him. Well I figured I can still save things.

Turn 3. FIRE! Nope. Nothing. Zip. Nada. Dreadknight? Still alive and kicking. Only thing of note was taking out 4 guys out of squad that had dented executioner a bit. He tagged more stuff into combat, took stuff out(though FA squad trying to charge veteran squad with flamer and heavy flamer were burned) but we pretty much wrapped the game here.

3 turns of firing and I had actually killed none of his units on my turn All units he lost was smite backfiring and overwatch. I had lost like 6, was without warlord, pask about to die, executioner dead and well not much left. And not like I was doing too much splitting I think. First turn I split between 2 rhino's but that was because some stuff couldn't see so I had to split or wyvern into PA guy but I think that's obvious. Turns 2 and 3 I basically concentrated all to the knight that had range. Sigh. Well guess I could have fired heavy bolters toward terminators but not sure would that have been better than try to get that 1 wound knight dead...

Wasn't IG shooting supposed to be overpowered?-) Albeit my list isn't probably all that competive. But sheesh what dice rolling. At the end I was so desperate I tried using rerolls on overwatching laspistol against that 1W dreadknight or even trying to charge the damn thing with naked company commander