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Why aren't lesser daemons used more, in competitive environment setting?

They don't deliver as much as the other troop choices.

Sure their the cheapest, but they have no range and -have- to be deep striked in.

However I would use daemons because Chaos armies -should- have daemons.

But as they have to deepstrike in, you really must support them with multiple icons.

The best way to do this seems to be small troop choices in rhinos with icons.

This then gives the Daemons a good amount of range & flexibility? What am I missing?

Shadowbrand wrote:They don't deliver as much as the other troop choices.

Sure their the cheapest, but they have no range and -have- to be deep striked in.

However I would use daemons because Chaos armies -should- have daemons.

It is possible to take a squad of about 9 daemons, and with a Chaos Lord on a Steed of Slaanesh. Basically, the daemons are the meatshields to get your Lord closer.
At least that is what I read once. IDK if it actually works well.

forruner_mercy wrote:

Shadowbrand wrote:They don't deliver as much as the other troop choices.

Sure their the cheapest, but they have no range and -have- to be deep striked in.

However I would use daemons because Chaos armies -should- have daemons.

It is possible to take a squad of about 9 daemons, and with a Chaos Lord on a Steed of Slaanesh. Basically, the daemons are the meatshields to get your Lord closer.
At least that is what I read once. IDK if it actually works well.

The daemons have to deep strike, and would prevent the lord from assaulting 12". I don't see how this combo is beneficial.

willydstyle wrote:

forruner_mercy wrote:

Shadowbrand wrote:They don't deliver as much as the other troop choices.

Sure their the cheapest, but they have no range and -have- to be deep striked in.

However I would use daemons because Chaos armies -should- have daemons.

It is possible to take a squad of about 9 daemons, and with a Chaos Lord on a Steed of Slaanesh. Basically, the daemons are the meatshields to get your Lord closer.
At least that is what I read once. IDK if it actually works well.

The daemons have to deep strike, and would prevent the lord from assaulting 12". I don't see how this combo is beneficial.

It was just something I read about. It sounded iffy to me, it was just something.

Well, I'd take them in a monster mash list (DPs, GD, Dreads, Defilers) to stall enemy units which would otherwise tie up the precious walkers.

The cheap daemons can make a decent tarpit unit, but other then that, there is nothing they can bring that you can't find better in another unit entry. I don't know if they can score though.

Hmm, lots of people don't know their stuff.
p. 61:
"Once deployed, the Daemons cannot do anything else in that turn's Movement phase, but after that they are free to act as normal (they can assault in the same turn that they enter the game)."

Lesser daemons are also scoring, since they are infantry (nonvehicle) and are a troops choice.

That's my point. They are scoring, T4 with a 5++. 13ppm, fearless assault marine stat profile - just no special weapons. A tarpit that kills stuff?

What exactly do they kill? Also, since when is 5++ a good saving throw?

Lets assume you have 3+ mobile icons. Not sure how is best to field them but, as a requirement really, lets say you have them.. so;

For 13ppm they will put wounds on squads & stun/shake vehicles from a rather reasonable range of about 12" from an icon, the turn they arrive. And 5++ isn't amazing but 5th edition has given us the 4+ cover save and many many units seem to do quite well from it.

Well, I have seen CSM armies using small packs of Daemons mainly for objective holding. This is not the way I play Daemons in this carnation of the game since I find that a CSM unit with a heavy weapon or plasma guns can do it better.

Lesser Daemon! What Lesser Daemon?
Well, seriously, PM with specials in a Rhino can hold objectives better.

willydstyle wrote:What exactly do they kill? Also, since when is 5++ a good saving throw?

Because a saving throw is better than no saving throw. It's a crap invul, but at least they will always get it. You run berzerkers and they will wither under heavy fire. SLD at least have a chance.
And baby berzerkers are basically what they are. You get a fraction of the combat effectiveness, but for a fraction of the cost. I have run them before and won with them. The key is to run alot of them. If you aren't going to field a unit of at least 15 of them don't bother. You need the numbers for them to tie things up long enough. I had a unit of 20 kill a termie lone wolf, 2 separate termie rune priests, and chase off a fenrisian wolf pack. Then what was left of them made a meat wall to protect my objective in the final turn.
If you are going to use them I strongly suggest running two large units of them. The demand lots of attention from your opponent, which is nice. Maybe run a biker teleportation platform (3 bikers w/icon, for added fun make one a champ and burn him to bring out a GSD), which is an excellent way to get these units out in the field accurately.

You don't take demons to kill stuff. Obviously everything else in CSM does it better. You take them as a scoring troops choice that can assault the turn they show. They buy you time and synergize well with chaos marine squads. Get an icon near long fangs/devestators/orc lootas/obliterators/predators/whirlwind/etc etc.


They show up, they assault, they turn off that shooting.

Better yet, if they're near an objective and in hth, the opponent has to kill every last one to take the objective back.

willydstyle wrote:What exactly do they kill? Also, since when is 5++ a good saving throw?

TH/SS or LC terminators I think of them as T4 guardsmen who always get their save

scuddman wrote:You don't take demons to kill stuff. Obviously everything else in CSM does it better. You take them as a scoring troops choice that can assault the turn they show. They buy you time and synergize well with chaos marine squads. Get an icon near long fangs/devestators/orc lootas/obliterators/predators/whirlwind/etc etc.


They show up, they assault, they turn off that shooting.

This is probably the best way to use them. Tie up a shooty unit- with the list mentioned though, outside of the oblits who might be upfield, you would want them turn 3+ to make sure your close enough to the opponents deployment line.

scuddman wrote:Better yet, if they're near an objective and in hth, the opponent has to kill every last one to take the objective back.

T4 guardsmen. Just put a bunch of wounds on them, not that hard

They are mostly used as scoring units for late game objective grabbing/holding.

They troll Terminators pretty hard too. If you have a squad of 20 SLD you are only paying 260 points, that's almost like one CSM squad. Charge the Terminators, you get 60 attacks. About 30 hit, 15 may wound, and then you have two, maybe three, dead Terminators. In a normal squad you may be receiving about eight attacks back, four hit, all four probably wound, then one or two will save.

I got real lucky against my pal, who had six Termies, and killed them all before they could strike. He was pissed

I use lesser deamons for point caping and support. They can charge when they come in off the deep strike so having a few 5 man squads of lessers can help out alot. Just gives you that little boost to power through the opposition without much point devotion.

Out of all of the Daemons, which are good?
I am going to make a fluffy Slaanesh-themed CSM list, and I was wondering if Daemonettes are worth it.

CSM doesn't get access to anything but the generic "summoned lesser daemons."

CSM only have generic lesser daemons, which means you can use any model you want. They're all the same, as we aren't real daemons anymore.

Justus wrote:CSM only have generic lesser daemons, which means you can use any model you want. They're all the same, as we aren't real daemons anymore.

We have gimped generic daemons (forever hating Gav)

Hopefully the next 'dex will give our daemons back some flavour and distinguish the Bloodthirster from the Lord of Change.

Larger SLD squads (15-20) are generally more effective in their primary role as assault assist tarpits.

Artanis wrote:

Justus wrote:CSM only have generic lesser daemons, which means you can use any model you want. They're all the same, as we aren't real daemons anymore.

We have gimped generic daemons (forever hating Gav)

Hopefully the next 'dex will give our daemons back some flavour and distinguish the Bloodthirster from the Lord of Change.

Larger SLD squads (15-20) are generally more effective in their primary role as assault assist tarpits.

But tarpits are only really useful if they're cheaper than the unit you're tarpitting, and large units of lesser daemons just don't fit that description.