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Made in gb
Ichor-Dripping Talos Monstrosity






Original Post
Spoiler:
Ok, so following time in this thread I'm starting a Mont'au Raiders codex.
Kinda... Tau that are piratey freedom fightery things... in space I havent quite figured out the details yet. But hey

Front page - because why not.



This is.. the bare bones concept so far:
Mont'au Raiders:
- They're immune to whatever effect Ethereals normally have on tau. No one is sure why or how.
-- The immunity is genetic, via a recessive gene.
-- It's insanely rare, I'm not sure of the current population of the Tau but I'm thinking something like 1% or less are carriers, let alone actually immune.
-- Those that are immune are able to tell others like them by sight. Again, it's not known how or why this is.

- The raiders were initially akin to a secret underground on T'au, knowledge of their group spread by word of mouth among their kind.
-- Initially led by a former member of the Air Caste, who orchestrated their crowning achievement - the theft of a trio of Gal'Leath (explorer) class Starships with a full loadout and associated escorts and enabling the succession of a large number of their kind from T'au.
-- Now live on what's thought by the Tau Empire to be an uninhabited world roughly within the third expansion zone. A small city has been carved deep into a large cliff face, centered around a massive natural cavern that holds their small shipyards and what little navy they have.
-- Have recently (in the last 10 years) completed setting up mining facilities (have so far been processing ore from carving out the city) and so are now able to easily produce own gear.

- To the immune Mont'au doesnt mean the end of their race or 'destruction' it means 'freedom'.
-- They believe that the majority of the Tau race is under a kind of mind control, practically enslaved by the ethereals.
-- Continue to run expeditions to find and extract the immune from tau worlds, including several infiltrating the society to act as facilitators.
-- Are of the opinion there's little they can do about the ethereals - they're too small in number to fight a full fledged war, whatever they attempt to do in regards to making their bretheren see whats going on would be nullified by a few words from an ethereal etc.
-- Run raids to aqquire additional technology, infomation, funds, food, equipment etc.

- Focus on both martial and marksmanship prowess.

- Are thought to be naive and delusional by those that truly know of them.
-- Are thought to be a large criminal organisation lurking in the shadows by those who hear rumours.


But anyhoo - on to the first actually relevant Proposed Rules part: the first proposed rule.

I want them to have a signature style and weapon that sets them apart, and was thinking the following new weapon type may do it:
Gun Blade (name pending I just can't think of anything better right now)- Any weapon that has the Gunblade rule grants a special 'extra attack' in close combat and may fire a single shot. Roll to hit as you would a CCW, but it uses the Str AP and any relevent rules it has.

I.E:
Mont'au Grammaton Pulse Pistol
Range-18" Str-5 AP-5 Pistol, Gun Blade

So a Tau Fire Warrior (cos I don't have a better comparison right now) armed with a MGPP would make 2 CC attacks at WS2 and Str3, and fire 1 shot at WS2, Str5 AP5.

I envision it primarily being on pistols, though some assault and rifle type weapons could benefit at some point too.

Thoughts?


And resetting a little with new stuff:

A genetic abnormality that is believed to have first appeared some time during the Second Sphere expansion, certain Tau found themselves disillusioned with the Empire, feeling apart from their brothers and sisters within the Castes. These Tau did not feel the adoration for the Ethereals their bretheren, nor compelled to follow the orders of the Tau rulers like the rest of their race.

These outcasts were immune to the effect of the Ethereals, and were somehow able to tell each other by sight - the rest of Tau society passing them by in a washed out noir, with other Immune standing out in glorious colour. The Immune went through this grey world confused and afraid, not knowing why they were different and afraid of the repercussions if they didn't follow orders with the same apparent devotion as those around them.

As time went on, some of these lonely individuals went a little mad - a number committed suicide, a few went berserk killing a few dozen of their 'grey' kin, though these were kept quiet and covered up to avoid 'panic' in the populace. Most however, formed small underground groups, taking solace and strength in the company of their fellow Immune.
And so life continued within the Empire for many years, the race as a whole continuing to grow, expanding rapidly into the surrounding space, the Immune congregating in small groups.

Spoiler:
Then during the closing months of the Second Sphere expansion, something changed.

They're immune to the Ethereals rule and believe in a united Tau race, not separated Castes.
Originally an underground movement on T'au, they stole several ships and ran a few centuries ago, making a new home on a new world.
On the surface a barren wasteland but hidden deep underground, fed by a moss that gives off UV light were entire forests of sentient trees with telepathic abilities.

The Mont'au developed into a race that grew alongside these sentient trees, that under their guidance gained the ability to grow into biotech devices, up to and including Starships, and melding with the flesh of the Mont'au.

The Mont'au Raiders are those that take these living biomechanoid ships and make runs on Tau outposts, for technology and to seek out others of their kind that are immune to Ethereal rule and disillusioned with the Tau Empire.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2012/12/05 06:59:04


   
Made in ca
Trustworthy Shas'vre




I was working on a similar concept for a Tau unit myself. Instead of giving the rule to the weapon, I gave it to the Tau themselves. I called it Contact Fire. It allowed a model armed with a pistol to use the profile of the pistol to resolve the effects of any hit it delivered in close combat.

Tau and Space Wolves since 5th Edition. 
   
Made in au
Satyxis Raider



Australia

The shooting in CC mechanic seems a little clunky to me. I recommend simplifying it by simply making the Gunblade rule confer +1A in CC. A Mont'au warrior with a MGPP and a close combat weapon would make 3 attacks in CC (4 on the charge). Further deviations from Mont'au and normal Tau can be made in the profiles of the units and weaponry.

Personally I’d recommend Mont’au warriors being at least WS3. Grammaton Pulse Rifles should be weaker in terms of strength and range than an ordinary Pulse Rifle but made assault 2 instead. Perhaps something like:

Range: 18” Str: 4 AP: 6 assault 2, gunblade

So whilst Tau is a long ranged gunline army, Mont'au would be more of a shorter ranged gunline/skirmish force like Dark Eldar and CSM.

Over 2000 Points worth of Black Legion
Collecting Privateer Press due to the current state of GW

H.B.M.C. wrote: Goood! Goooood!

Your hate has made you powerful. Now take your Privateer Press tape measure and strike me down with all your hatred and your journey to the dark side will be complete!!!


 
   
Made in ca
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps







Ovion wrote:Ok, so following time in this thread I'm starting a Mont'au Raiders codex.
Kinda... Tau that are piratey freedom fightery things... in space I havent quite figured out the details yet. But hey

Front page - because why not.
Spoiler:



This is.. the bare bones concept so far:
Spoiler:
Mont'au Raiders:
- They're immune to whatever effect Ethereals normally have on tau. No one is sure why or how.
-- The immunity is genetic, via a recessive gene.
-- It's insanely rare, I'm not sure of the current population of the Tau but I'm thinking something like 1% or less are carriers, let alone actually immune.
-- Those that are immune are able to tell others like them by sight. Again, it's not known how or why this is.

- The raiders were initially akin to a secret underground on T'au, knowledge of their group spread by word of mouth among their kind.
-- Initially led by a former member of the Air Caste, who orchestrated their crowning achievement - the theft of a trio of Gal'Leath (explorer) class Starships with a full loadout and associated escorts and enabling the succession of a large number of their kind from T'au.
-- Now live on what's thought by the Tau Empire to be an uninhabited world roughly within the third expansion zone. A small city has been carved deep into a large cliff face, centered around a massive natural cavern that holds their small shipyards and what little navy they have.
-- Have recently (in the last 10 years) completed setting up mining facilities (have so far been processing ore from carving out the city) and so are now able to easily produce own gear.

- To the immune Mont'au doesnt mean the end of their race or 'destruction' it means 'freedom'.
-- They believe that the majority of the Tau race is under a kind of mind control, practically enslaved by the ethereals.
-- Continue to run expeditions to find and extract the immune from tau worlds, including several infiltrating the society to act as facilitators.
-- Are of the opinion there's little they can do about the ethereals - they're too small in number to fight a full fledged war, whatever they attempt to do in regards to making their bretheren see whats going on would be nullified by a few words from an ethereal etc.
-- Run raids to aqquire additional technology, infomation, funds, food, equipment etc.

- Focus on both martial and marksmanship prowess.

- Are thought to be naive and delusional by those that truly know of them.
-- Are thought to be a large criminal organisation lurking in the shadows by those who hear rumours.


But anyhoo - on to the first actually relevant Proposed Rules part: the first proposed rule.

I want them to have a signature style and weapon that sets them apart, and was thinking the following new weapon type may do it:
Gun Blade (name pending I just can't think of anything better right now)- Any weapon that has the Gunblade rule grants a special 'extra attack' in close combat and may fire a single shot. Roll to hit as you would a CCW, but it uses the Str AP and any relevent rules it has.

I.E:
Mont'au Grammaton Pulse Pistol
Range-18" Str-5 AP-5 Pistol, Gun Blade

So a Tau Fire Warrior (cos I don't have a better comparison right now) aremd with a MGPP would make 2 CC attacks at WS2 and Str3, and fire 1 shot at WS2, Str5 AP5.

I envision it primarily being on pistols, though some assault and rifle type weapons could benefit at some point too.

Thoughts?


So they get two hits AND a shot in CC?


   
Made in gb
Ichor-Dripping Talos Monstrosity






That's what it says yes, if you've ever seen Equilibrium, I see them doing that sort of fighting, i.e - punch, punch, fire.
If it were an assault 2 weapon, they would get 2 shots and so on.
I should really do more work on this....

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/12/18 02:19:56


   
Made in ca
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps







Ovion wrote:That's what it says yes, if you've ever seen Equilibrium, I see them doing that sort of fighting, i.e - punch, punch, fire.
If it were an assault 2 weapon, they would get 2 shots and so on.
I should really do more work on this....


I'm thinking you should choose between them getting extra attacks and them shooting in melee.

4 attacks for a tau raider is ridiculous. They have three of the charge and can kill a tac squad. Ridiculous. The points hike necessary would make them useless.

They would be the best basic infantry unit in the game...

Try WS 3 and they get a second attack for having a gun blade

or WS3 firing at WS in melee once per phase.

   
Made in gb
Ichor-Dripping Talos Monstrosity






Apologies, reading my own rule back, it will only ever grant a single bonus shot a round.

Also, I'm unsure why I put 2 str 3 hits. A firewarrior has 1 base attack.

So they would get 2 Str3 hits and 1 Str5 hit on the charge, and 1 Str 3 hit and 1 Str 5 hit during any other round of combat. All at ws 2 or 3 I would think.

But in the next couple of weeks I'll flesh this out more and put up at least a basic troop and HQ.

   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el





United States

That picture... I used the same exact wallpaper as a cover for a fandex of mine. Alas, it is no more.
   
Made in ca
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps







Ovion wrote:Apologies, reading my own rule back, it will only ever grant a single bonus shot a round.

Also, I'm unsure why I put 2 str 3 hits. A firewarrior has 1 base attack.

So they would get 2 Str3 hits and 1 Str5 hit on the charge, and 1 Str 3 hit and 1 Str 5 hit during any other round of combat. All at ws 2 or 3 I would think.

But in the next couple of weeks I'll flesh this out more and put up at least a basic troop and HQ.


Use those rules, and WS3 BS4 (to represent them not being afraid to take cheap shots?)

And try 15 points and see how they fare.

   
Made in gb
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller





Coolio idea! perhaps change this round to the farsight enclaves? The farsight enclaves imho are one of the best ideas in the entire tau fluff!
The idea that these merc tau are merely cus of a tau conspiracy theory without proof is shaky, be careful, the fluff nazis may attack you for it. No proof of the ethereal control hormones
However, I do believe this is a great idea, I would love to see it developed.
   
Made in gb
Ichor-Dripping Talos Monstrosity






I dislike of tacking on yet another farsight enclave codex.

This is going to be something completely different.

I've also covered the control thing, as not even they know how they're influenced, or how they're immune, just they don't like it xD.

I've got ideas for a similar but alternate tech development path aswell.

It's going to be mostly a medium range skirmisher army, with some long range artillery, kind of like the Dark Eldar equivalent of the Tau, with less evil.

Very few suits, less drones, some light skimmers and some heavier vehicles, maybe walkers.

Some small, very fast short range starships for their navy with a couple of slow but very long range ships (tempted to do them a BFG entry )

Also going to change the rule Gun Blade to Grammaton, because it sounds less cliche (if only slightly xD)

   
Made in ca
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps







Ovion wrote:I dislike of tacking on yet another farsight enclave codex.

This is going to be something completely different.

I've also covered the control thing, as not even they know how they're influenced, or how they're immune, just they don't like it xD.

I've got ideas for a similar but alternate tech development path aswell.

It's going to be mostly a medium range skirmisher army, with some long range artillery, kind of like the Dark Eldar equivalent of the Tau, with less evil.

Very few suits, less drones, some light skimmers and some heavier vehicles, maybe walkers.

Some small, very fast short range starships for their navy with a couple of slow but very long range ships (tempted to do them a BFG entry )

Also going to change the rule Gun Blade to Grammaton, because it sounds less cliche (if only slightly xD)


If you want short range firepower, use XV9s.

   
Made in gb
Ichor-Dripping Talos Monstrosity






Not familiar with the forgeworld stuff tbh.

Tossing around in my head for a look is possibly mandrake / firewarrior conversions or maybe something similar scratchbuilt or commisioned, that barechested, tatoos with kimonoesque 'skirt', long hair and a knife and pistol.

   
Made in ca
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps







Ovion wrote:Not familiar with the forgeworld stuff tbh.

Tossing around in my head for a look is possibly mandrake / firewarrior conversions or maybe something similar scratchbuilt or commisioned, that barechested, tatoos with kimonoesque 'skirt', long hair and a knife and pistol.


Well XV9s as like crisis suit but better in every way.

They have +1 WS, +1 LD IIRC and +1T

As default they have defensive grenades and vectored retro thrusters, and multi-tracker

They cost 75 pts and have, as default, two TL burst cannons (so four BCs)

Their weapon options are to swap out for:

Phased Ion Gun: S4 AP4 Assault 4 rending at +10 points per arm

Fusion Cascades: D3 melta, should always be taken in pairs because it suck otherwise at +15 per arm

Pulse submunitions rifle: Blast weapon, +20 per arm, should always be taken in pairs.

They are fast attack.

They are also the single best tau units, excepting Shas'O r'alai, MAYBE broadsides, and mantas.

   
Made in gb
Ichor-Dripping Talos Monstrosity






Ok, some minor updates:
There's going to be 2 'sides' to each unit, a Melee focus version (Mont'yr) and a Shooting focus version (Mont'ka).

Both are going to be better at Close Combat than regular Tau, as the Mont'au don't see it as uncultured but a good way to get one up on their more 'civilised' bretheren.

Being there's interbreeding and no focus on castes instead of it being Shas'la, ui, etc, it's Tau'la, ui, etc, representing the nature of their combined people.

There'll be a mostly army-wide special rule that grants prefered enemy against Ethereals of any kind (including Aun'va) and any unit they are with.

While possibly not a rule that would be used very often it's fluffly.

   
Made in ca
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife





You'll be able to slap around an ethereal or two if my C:TEA ever catches on

Pit your chainsword against my chainsw- wait that's Heresy. 
   
Made in gb
Ichor-Dripping Talos Monstrosity






I'm following your thread and can't figure out what C:TEA stands for.... Codex: Tau Empire A????

   
Made in gb
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller





im2randomghgh wrote:
Ovion wrote:Not familiar with the forgeworld stuff tbh.

Tossing around in my head for a look is possibly mandrake / firewarrior conversions or maybe something similar scratchbuilt or commisioned, that barechested, tatoos with kimonoesque 'skirt', long hair and a knife and pistol.


Well XV9s as like crisis suit but better in every way.

They have +1 WS, +1 LD IIRC and +1T

As default they have defensive grenades and vectored retro thrusters, and multi-tracker

They cost 75 pts and have, as default, two TL burst cannons (so four BCs)

Their weapon options are to swap out for:

Phased Ion Gun: S4 AP4 Assault 4 rending at +10 points per arm

Fusion Cascades: D3 melta, should always be taken in pairs because it suck otherwise at +15 per arm

Pulse submunitions rifle: Blast weapon, +20 per arm, should always be taken in pairs.

They are fast attack.

They are also the single best tau units, excepting Shas'O r'alai, MAYBE broadsides, and mantas.


Uhhh, two twin linked burst cannons isnt 4 burst cannons...its two but you can re roll to hit.

Meh, xv9s I think are cool, but certainly not one of the best units on offer. For 75 points you get a battlesuit with extra characteristic in one area you dont want it to have it in as tau do not assault ever. THey are tougher, yes thats cool. For them to be good, they end up costing a lot for a unit that is merely a space marine with higher toughness and more wounds (put blankly). Too exspensive for too little. I can get nearly three crisis suits for one of these with wep upgrades (which you would want to give them as burst cannons are a waste on such an expensive unit)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/20 21:08:05


 
   
Made in gb
Ichor-Dripping Talos Monstrosity






So is everyone OK with the balance and idea of what I've put up so far?

Are the drones all OK and priced fairly?
The Fire Warrior Commanders look good atm?
The new Hammerhead Gunship platform and drone control suite acceptable?

I have somewhat less experience with Tau than DE.

   
Made in ca
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps







blood lance wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
Ovion wrote:Not familiar with the forgeworld stuff tbh.

Tossing around in my head for a look is possibly mandrake / firewarrior conversions or maybe something similar scratchbuilt or commisioned, that barechested, tatoos with kimonoesque 'skirt', long hair and a knife and pistol.


Well XV9s as like crisis suit but better in every way.

They have +1 WS, +1 LD IIRC and +1T

As default they have defensive grenades and vectored retro thrusters, and multi-tracker

They cost 75 pts and have, as default, two TL burst cannons (so four BCs)

Their weapon options are to swap out for:

Phased Ion Gun: S4 AP4 Assault 4 rending at +10 points per arm

Fusion Cascades: D3 melta, should always be taken in pairs because it suck otherwise at +15 per arm

Pulse submunitions rifle: Blast weapon, +20 per arm, should always be taken in pairs.

They are fast attack.

They are also the single best tau units, excepting Shas'O r'alai, MAYBE broadsides, and mantas.


Uhhh, two twin linked burst cannons isnt 4 burst cannons...its two but you can re roll to hit.

Meh, xv9s I think are cool, but certainly not one of the best units on offer. For 75 points you get a battlesuit with extra characteristic in one area you dont want it to have it in as tau do not assault ever. THey are tougher, yes thats cool. For them to be good, they end up costing a lot for a unit that is merely a space marine with higher toughness and more wounds (put blankly). Too exspensive for too little. I can get nearly three crisis suits for one of these with wep upgrades (which you would want to give them as burst cannons are a waste on such an expensive unit)


I said 4 BCs to make it clear, I didn't want people to read "2 TL BCs" and think "2 BC, TL"

And they really are. An XV9 with fusion cascades can, without such an extreme effort, take out an entire terminator squad while costing half the points. Or give them phased ion guns, and a unit of three can put out 24 rending shots per turn. Plus you can attach them to r'alai, which is their best use.

And you would have to be intentionally wasteful to get a single XV9 up to the 176 points it costs for fireknife teams. You could easily get two, with weapons upgrades, for only 1.5 FW more.

PLUS, you can save your elite slots for crisis suits and stealth suits.

oh and the vectored retro thrusters, higher WS, defensive grenades and higher Ld and higher T means they are unlikely to be killed in any single round of combat.

   
Made in gb
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller





Ok then, dont want to start a flame war or something so back to codex thingy
Sounding cool. Aint got much to say tbh, too tired...
   
Made in no
Sneaky Sniper Drone



Norway

Sounds like a cool idea, having a Tau "faction" that can pack more of a punch in close combat!
I like the idea of the Mont'Au being sort of "raiders" within Tau space that no one really pays any attention to, and the possibility of painting battlesuits in grim, scary colours is epic!

So, in my own humble opinion, it seems like both a viable and interesting mindleap! Keep up the good work, I'd love to read more about it in the future!

Tau sucks at Close Quarter? Meet the Fish Of Fury!  
   
Made in ca
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps







Again though, I feel the need to say that making the tau better at CC doesn't really mean you have to do what you're doing here. you're making them better than astartes at CC, which is silly. Raise the WS by one, and give them the option to take a str5 ap5 pistol and knife, and you've got assaulty troops.

   
 
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