Switch Theme:

We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






I would be shocked if Big Shootas change at all.

Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak. 
   
Made in dk
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




Denmark

 TedNugent wrote:
I would be shocked if Big Shootas change at all.

Big Shootas need to change, because right now it is barely worth rolling the dice for a vehicle that has one or two.

2000pts Da Blitza Boyz! (Orks) 50% painted.

My Ork P&M Blog:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/564900.page

Forge World Arkurian Pattern Stormblade:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/558337.page 
   
Made in cz
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





Prague

 Bonde wrote:
 TedNugent wrote:
I would be shocked if Big Shootas change at all.

Big Shootas need to change, because right now it is barely worth rolling the dice for a vehicle that has one or two.

That' s true but absolutely no guarantee of anything.

8000pt 
   
Made in gb
Fully-charged Electropriest






After seeing heavy stubbers get an extra shot in the Ad Mech previews perhaps that’s all we’ll get for big shootas. It would be disappointing if so.
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

Last thing the game needs, and orks in particular, is more dice rolling.

Orks 7000
Space Wolves 4000
 
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

Move Deff Dreads and Killa Kanz to Elite slot. That way they will be used more often and dont take up precious Heavy Support slots.

Many Dreadnoughts already only take elite slots

Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in dk
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




Denmark

Beardedragon wrote:
Move Deff Dreads and Killa Kanz to Elite slot. That way they will be used more often and dont take up precious Heavy Support slots.

Many Dreadnoughts already only take elite slots

I fully agree! I really want to use Deff Dreads and Meka-dreads in my BW list, because the walkers are not survivable enough on their own, but right now there are not enough Heavy Support slots for them, unless I spend CP on a Spearhead formation.

2000pts Da Blitza Boyz! (Orks) 50% painted.

My Ork P&M Blog:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/564900.page

Forge World Arkurian Pattern Stormblade:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/558337.page 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

If anything they should move because the Heavy slot is over populated while the Elite slot really doesnt have much in it.
FA is pretty crowded too but everything there should be there.

But you are right, almost all generic dreads are elite. Its the "bigger" ones that are heavies.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Danmark

 Vineheart01 wrote:
If anything they should move because the Heavy slot is over populated while the Elite slot really doesnt have much in it.
FA is pretty crowded too but everything there should be there.

But you are right, almost all generic dreads are elite. Its the "bigger" ones that are heavies.


yes that was my main point. Its difficult for me to argue with going for certain models like deff dreads or Mega Dreads in the heavy slot because the heavy slot feels so important for orks, and certain units are required if you run Mek based. Where as the Elite slots dont have much else to really go for except MANZ and Kommandos. And maybe a painboy. Like, all your ranged firepower comes from the heavy support slot. So you cant really take up all the heavy slots with CC power houses there. Otherwise you have no backline shooting.


Also, of course, Lootas should be Elite slot as well. As should Flash Gitz i feel.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/04/15 17:49:49


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Bonde wrote:
 TedNugent wrote:
I would be shocked if Big Shootas change at all.

Big Shootas need to change, because right now it is barely worth rolling the dice for a vehicle that has one or two.


Yes on all accounts, Ted I share your concern and Bonde I agree they aren't worth rolling for the most part. Assuming you buy them on boyz because you are a fethwit 2 big shootas average 2.3 hits 1.55 wounds and against a Space Marines 3+ save 0.518 dmg. Or in other words, you have a 50/50 chance to inflict 1 dmg on a Space Marine. Another way to look at that is you need 8 Big shootas in order to average 1 dead Marine a turn. 8 x 3 = 24 x 0.3333 + DDD = 9.33 x .6666 = 6.22 /3 = 2.07 dmg.

Even doubling their dmg to 2 would only cut the math down to needing 4 big shootas to kill 1 Marine (20pts in just weapons + the platforms) If they go the Heavy stubber route and give us 1 extra shot (Dumb as all hell) the math changes to needing 6 Big Shootas to kill 1 Marine.

Big shootas were under powered and garbage tier well before all the recent durability boosts. Honestly, if they were free they would still be a borderline side grade as opposed to an upgrade over a boyz normal choppa.

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in cz
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





Prague

The best improve the Big shootas can get is to allow them to not have them on the trukk and spare some points...

8000pt 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Tomsug wrote:
The best improve the Big shootas can get is to allow them to not have them on the trukk and spare some points...


I mean right now? yeah you aren't wrong. I'd gladly take the 5pt price reduction on trukkz or the 20pt price drop on the Scrapjet

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in cz
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





Prague

SemperMortis wrote:
 Tomsug wrote:
The best improve the Big shootas can get is to allow them to not have them on the trukk and spare some points...


I mean right now? yeah you aren't wrong. I'd gladly take the 5pt price reduction on trukkz or the 20pt price drop on the Scrapjet


Yeap. But honestly, on scrapjets, they are fine. There are 4, half of them hits on 4+... It' s almost enough dakka to clean some guardsman and poxwalkers... it worth to roll them. But 1-2? Meh....

But 20p per scrapjet x 3 scrapjets in my list.... inspiring!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/15 17:41:18


8000pt 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Tomsug wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
 Tomsug wrote:
The best improve the Big shootas can get is to allow them to not have them on the trukk and spare some points...


I mean right now? yeah you aren't wrong. I'd gladly take the 5pt price reduction on trukkz or the 20pt price drop on the Scrapjet


Yeap. But honestly, on scrapjets, they are fine. There are 4, half of them hits on 4+... It' s almost enough dakka to clean some guardsman and poxwalkers... it worth to roll them. But 1-2? Meh....

But 20p per scrapjet x 3 scrapjets in my list.... inspiring!


presently a scrapjet gets 5.8 hits a turn with big shootas. Against guardsmen its 3.9 wounds and 2.59 dead Guardsmen, so 2-3 dead guardsmen a turn. What are guard right now? 5 or 6pts each? regardless you are killing low end 10pts (5pt guardsmen) and high end 18pts (6pt guardsmen) not exactly awe inspiring to say the least


 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in ca
Waaagh! Warbiker





Coming late to this conversation but if id have to guess id say an extra shot and -1 AP would be apropriate for Big Shootas. D2 to me feels wrong and doesnt make sense.

4 Shots and at S5 -1 feels like a crude but effective anti infantry profile, with enough shots to maybe see results. If they remain at 5 pts I wouldnt be too bothered with the better profile.

Im kinda hoping the Klaw will finally get a separate stat profile from the Fist.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Dr.Duck wrote:
Coming late to this conversation but if id have to guess id say an extra shot and -1 AP would be apropriate for Big Shootas. D2 to me feels wrong and doesnt make sense.

4 Shots and at S5 -1 feels like a crude but effective anti infantry profile, with enough shots to maybe see results. If they remain at 5 pts I wouldnt be too bothered with the better profile.

Im kinda hoping the Klaw will finally get a separate stat profile from the Fist.


4 shots at S5 -1AP averages 0.5dmg against a Space Marine a turn. to kill 1 Marine would take 4 turns on average.

I mentioned this before and in other places but my guess is that GW is going to do to big shootas what they did to Heavy stubbers, give them 1 extra shot and say "good enough" which will leave big shootas in the exact position they are currently in. Useless, only taken when you have to.

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





I can see the big shootas being D2 though, they are meant to be solid slugs darn near the size of fists after all.

Honestly if we had to choose only 1 way to upgrade them I'd choose the 2 damage rather than an AP improvement.
   
Made in cz
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





Prague

SemperMortis wrote:

presently a scrapjet gets 5.8 hits a turn with big shootas. Against guardsmen its 3.9 wounds and 2.59 dead Guardsmen, so 2-3 dead guardsmen a turn. What are guard right now? 5 or 6pts each? regardless you are killing low end 10pts (5pt guardsmen) and high end 18pts (6pt guardsmen) not exactly awe inspiring to say the least


Yeah... I play with the cards I have. You have 3 MSJ and they have 36”, so can reach far. Not great at all, but the only long range anti infatry weapon excepta some Mega/Giga shootas in our army.

Only other option how to deal with them is short range Burna Exhaust burning CPs pretty well and CC boyz variations.

Ou yes, and supa shootas on some Jets and Burna Bombs. Even less effective... unflexibel.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/16 04:14:29


8000pt 
   
Made in ca
Waaagh! Warbiker





SemperMortis wrote:
 Dr.Duck wrote:
Coming late to this conversation but if id have to guess id say an extra shot and -1 AP would be apropriate for Big Shootas. D2 to me feels wrong and doesnt make sense.

4 Shots and at S5 -1 feels like a crude but effective anti infantry profile, with enough shots to maybe see results. If they remain at 5 pts I wouldnt be too bothered with the better profile.

Im kinda hoping the Klaw will finally get a separate stat profile from the Fist.


4 shots at S5 -1AP averages 0.5dmg against a Space Marine a turn. to kill 1 Marine would take 4 turns on average.

I mentioned this before and in other places but my guess is that GW is going to do to big shootas what they did to Heavy stubbers, give them 1 extra shot and say "good enough" which will leave big shootas in the exact position they are currently in. Useless, only taken when you have to.


Id say thats appropriate. Big shoota should be a anti light to medium infantry gun, designed at clearing out screens and light infantry such as gaunts, cultists, guard etc. Multi damage guns should be reserved for weapons that contain explosives, high energy whatever stuffs.
   
Made in dk
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




Denmark

4 shots and AP -1 I could live with, if Big Shootas stay at 5pts. If they go up in points, they need to go to D2.

2000pts Da Blitza Boyz! (Orks) 50% painted.

My Ork P&M Blog:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/564900.page

Forge World Arkurian Pattern Stormblade:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/558337.page 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran




MY MAGIC GLOBE TELLS ME:

choppas ap-1
bigchoppas ap-2
kustom weaponary d6+2 dmg
power klaws loose the -1 to hit or d6dmg
burnas remain d3 but 12" range -3ap in CC
bigshootas either 4 shots -1ap 1dmg or 3 0 2
grots get 'hard to hit' stay at 5points
nob biker and manz get an extra wound
supashootas dmg 2
dakkadakka will be extra hits
doks will be able ro revive d3 boyz or 1 nob (infantry only)
dakkaguns -1ap
burna bomber strat gone
all walkers (no kans) get -1dmg
kans stay the same because feth kans
all vehicles get ramshackle
strat to disembark after trukks move (roll for all, 1's kill a model)
warboss gets +1 attack
biggest strat gone... but replaced with commander rule thingy
taking a super warboss, mek or painboy and you can take a unit of skarboyz, ardboyz or cyborks

what i would like to see the most:
1. charging orks get +1 attack and +1str or -1ap
(+1 to wound is even more wishful thinking)
2. beeing able to take bigchoppas for boyz
3. 6+ fnp across the board, painboyz boost this to 5+



   
Made in cz
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





Prague

Ok, I played a couple of games with double wazboom. And I have to say KFF is really expendable.

Deathskull wazboom is anyway 6++.

During the game, you can' t keep him to covering your units, so you use it just for the Wazboom himself.

From tactical point of view, you need to put the wazboom on side of your army, to be able zig-zag the field later, to max your points on Engage. And to prevent damage during thir explosions This positions are bad for KFF covering.

And any jets are always priority target. And they come closer to the enemy than the rest of the army, so they shoot them down anyway.

Hey man +15p each? I spared 30p!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/17 12:46:32


8000pt 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

i used the wazbom as a Dajump focus point if i couldnt position the wazbom to snipe a character, outside that yeah he really only covers himself.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






 Tomsug wrote:
Ok, I played a couple of games with double wazboom. And I have to say KFF is really expendable.

Deathskull wazboom is anyway 6++.

During the game, you can' t keep him to covering your units, so you use it just for the Wazboom himself.

From tactical point of view, you need to put the wazboom on side of your army, to be able zig-zag the field later, to max your points on Engage. And to prevent damage during thir explosions This positions are bad for KFF covering.

And any jets are always priority target. And they come closer to the enemy than the rest of the army, so they shoot them down anyway.

Hey man +15p each? I spared 30p!


I think that's part of the reason why I feel like they should expand the 9" wholly within bubble or to just make it a 6" within bubble instead for the next incarnation of the KFF, it's often unnecessarily restrictive.
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






 Bonde wrote:
 TedNugent wrote:
I would be shocked if Big Shootas change at all.

Big Shootas need to change, because right now it is barely worth rolling the dice for a vehicle that has one or two.


That doesn't mean they're going to change it. Plenty of things need to change, take Cybork bodies, but they don't touch it in release after release, including chapter approved.

Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Oye ya Gitz!

I’ve been thinking about our new codex and the pending changes. I love Flash Gitz but fully recognize that they are not competitive and I think that is largely due to their points cost, although they struggle to differentiate themselves from pure shooty units i.e. Lootas and Mek Guns or pure choppy units, Mega Nobz, Nobz, Boyz etc...So with the new codex coming in (Orktober?) here are my thoughts on what could be around the corner.

1. Points cost reduced from 32 to 25 (15pts Nob + 10pts Snazzgun). They were 27 at the end of 8th before strangely going back to 32. Honestly at 27 they were probably still too high. 25 seems about right. I think an argument could be made for staying at the higher cost if Gun Crazy Show-offs changed to a 5+

2. The snazzgun Is essentially and orky heavy bolter. With heavy bolters getting a boost that means the relative uniqueness and value of the snazzgun has decreased(more or less). I think we are anticipating some change to the big Shoota(extra shot, AP, and maybe damage) making the Snazzgun redundant. This offers some opportunity to distinguish Gitz from other entries. I think we could see a change in the Snazzgun profile from Heavy to Assault. This would allow for them to close distance and krump; otherwise what is that nob profile for? I doubt we will see a number of shots or damage increase, unless GW goes ape and makes the snazzgun more like plasma or essentially makes Snazzguns assault Deffgunz.

3. The Kaptain gets a power stabba/big Choppa default.

4. They move to the Elites slot.

5. They get “Keepin’ Order” (Or whatever the new version is)

I think the intent of the the unit is to be an all round shooty choppy mercenaries, however in its current iteration it fails to do either well.

Thoughts?

   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






 Da Dread Freeboota Robert wrote:
Oye ya Gitz!

I’ve been thinking about our new codex and the pending changes. I love Flash Gitz but fully recognize that they are not competitive and I think that is largely due to their points cost, although they struggle to differentiate themselves from pure shooty units i.e. Lootas and Mek Guns or pure choppy units, Mega Nobz, Nobz, Boyz etc...So with the new codex coming in (Orktober?) here are my thoughts on what could be around the corner.

1. Points cost reduced from 32 to 25 (15pts Nob + 10pts Snazzgun). They were 27 at the end of 8th before strangely going back to 32. Honestly at 27 they were probably still too high. 25 seems about right. I think an argument could be made for staying at the higher cost if Gun Crazy Show-offs changed to a 5+

2. The snazzgun Is essentially and orky heavy bolter. With heavy bolters getting a boost that means the relative uniqueness and value of the snazzgun has decreased(more or less). I think we are anticipating some change to the big Shoota(extra shot, AP, and maybe damage) making the Snazzgun redundant. This offers some opportunity to distinguish Gitz from other entries. I think we could see a change in the Snazzgun profile from Heavy to Assault. This would allow for them to close distance and krump; otherwise what is that nob profile for? I doubt we will see a number of shots or damage increase, unless GW goes ape and makes the snazzgun more like plasma or essentially makes Snazzguns assault Deffgunz.

3. The Kaptain gets a power stabba/big Choppa default.

4. They move to the Elites slot.

5. They get “Keepin’ Order” (Or whatever the new version is)

I think the intent of the the unit is to be an all round shooty choppy mercenaries, however in its current iteration it fails to do either well.

Thoughts?



Agreed. I think you touched a key part in that Flash Gitz are kind of a weird ranged unit that has Nob stats that it doesn't really utilize except defensively, which is pretty weak in the current 2W marine meta. If Big Shootas only get more shots and AP, I think Flash Gitz's snazzguns currently have a decent enough profile to compete. If they go all in and make Big Shootas AP-1 and D2, I think Flash Gitz should basically be plasma gun stats at this point, with S7 AP3 D2. I think making them back to assault weapons also helps differentiate them from Lootas in having them in transports or roving forward as a mobile fire base while Lootas have the range to mitigate return fire while Flash Gitz have to get into the thick of it with their 24" range guns.

I think Gun Crazy Show Off's should change however. I dislike how swingy it is since you can go for entire games without it coming into play. I'd much prefer it as a passive ability, where they gain 2 hits rather than one for DDD! This would make combo'ing Moar Dakka even more strong on Gitz since then it would proc 2 hits on 5's and 6's. It helps reflect the extra shots you would get from them going full auto on an enemy without it being tied to a very random die roll.

In my instance however, if we incorporated my changes I would assume they would stay the same price or only go down to 30 ppm or something instead of 25.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/18 05:44:13


 
   
Made in cz
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





Prague

Yeah october as I said. Sorry guys...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/18/our-pre-order-schedules-changing-a-bit-heres-how/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=WH&utm_campaign=Facebook&utm_term=WH-preorder-schedule-changes-APR18&fbclid=IwAR3W7adEXPHl_I6NvCu1E5NPpD3BrOUYPEoaq6rOxf_y1akHYbIBsLkzSc0

8000pt 
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa








Oof. And by Orktober, they probably mean the very end of October we'll get our preorders up. FUN.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/18 18:02:47


 
   
Made in cz
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





Prague



Obviously, there is no real plan. No surprise. All industry in Europe suffers a terible delay. Fkn covid destroied all supply chains, everybody are waiting for some material / spare parts / cargo capacity. It takes a year at least of fix it.

Keep calm, write to Santa and wait and have a spare Agrax in shelf.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/04/18 18:10:25


8000pt 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Tactics
Go to: