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Just some bodies to throw in the Chimera with the characters (to minimize drops) in case my opponent has something that can kill it, better to lose a guy with a sniper rifle than a 30-46 point character. Depending on the situation they can either ride around and man the lasguns, get out and take an objective or deploy outside of it and throw out some harassing shots.

Alpharius Walks wrote:
Just some bodies to throw in the Chimera with the characters (to minimize drops) in case my opponent has something that can kill it, better to lose a guy with a sniper rifle than a 30-46 point character. Depending on the situation they can either ride around and man the lasguns, get out and take an objective or deploy outside of it and throw out some harassing shots.

Mother of God! 9 russes is truly heroic damage. Not 100% on the mathammer but I'm pretty sure you'll kill a baneblade a turn with that...

The hard part continues to be Cadia vs Catachan. Catachan is more mobile and consistent throughout the game but the Cadian relic makes turn 1 really brutal for your opponent and pulverizes Chaos.

Alpharius Walks wrote:
The hard part continues to be Cadia vs Catachan. Catachan is more mobile and consistent throughout the game but the Cadian relic makes turn 1 really brutal for your opponent and pulverizes Chaos.

I'm just not a big fan of the classic gunline playstyle, so I might be a bit biased but for me it's definitely Catachan.
With all of the -1 to hit I think the game won't favor a static gunline.
Also don't forget the +1LD bonus if your officers are around (which they definitely should be) and the S4 (which is more of a gimmick but nevertheless nice to have).

Okay for tomorrow league game scenario is without night fighting but still deployment zones are rather cramped. Side A(having lost last game I'm likely to be this) starts on 24" diameter circle in center, enemy starts from 4 corners with min 3" between enemy units. Exact map seen here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lk9WWepIGUQHpiQwH4_1siokCvoU76G4/view

So as can be guessed if I deploy on edge and lose first turn roll I could face turn 1 charges and enemy in midst right away...

Victory decided by power levels of units destroyed/half of units gone to half strenght. BTW power level 45 games. Both sides fearless for this battle.

Sooooo to counter this and thanks to suggestion here I figured I'll go mechanized and was even able to paint up 3rd chimera. How does this sound?

Knight commander pask(leaning toward plasma+lascannon variant)
Infantry squad(autocannon, flamer)
Infantry squad(autocannon, flamer)
Special weapons squad(2xplasma gun, flamer)
Chimera(multilaser+heavy bolter)
Chimera(multilaser+heavy bolter)
Chimera(heavy flamer+heavy flamer)
Infantry squad(autocannon, flamer)
Special weapons squad(3xflamer)

Load up in chimeras gives me 4 drops. One infantry unit needs to be out. Maybe use it as screen to help ensuring no first turn charges against vehicles. Then if enemy splits up I'll drive forward toward one part trying to destroy it before turning around. Infantry squad "sacrificial lamb" meanwhile tries to delay enemy by trying to stand in way(move toward if I get first turn. With 4 drops I might get +1 to the roll even).

Short one PL as I have 2 elites filled for the patrol detachment. I could swap special weapon squad for heavy weapon squad but either accept -1 to hit right away or extra drop...

Could you drop the sws and give all the chimeras twin heavy flamers? That would give you stronger overwatch and probably more damage overall in such a short ranged game.

 Captain Roderick wrote:
Could you drop the sws and give all the chimeras twin heavy flamers? That would give you stronger overwatch and probably more damage overall in such a short ranged game.

What in return of SWS's? Note it's power level so don't need to drop anything for points to fit flamers into chimera. Bigger issue is models. I have only one with that(the one I painted on weekend) and apat from me being strict WYSIWYG apart from grenades & pistols/cc weapons in profile the league enforces same WYSIWYG limit as well. Thus unless I find parts, speed paint them and hack existing weapons off nope can't do and not sure I want 3 twin-h.flamer chimera permanently! Maybe one day get couple more and magnetize them.

So I need some help. Me and my friends generally play 1000-1500 points. So I need a list that can take care of marines but also my buddies 1000 point 100 ork list. I play catachan. Any advice for dealing with the green tide?

gendoikari87 wrote:
So I need some help. Me and my friends generally play 1000-1500 points. So I need a list that can take care of marines but also my buddies 1000 point 100 ork list. I play catachan. Any advice for dealing with the green tide?

I would add some Punisher Russes. They are good against MEQ and they will murder Orks.
Since you play Catachan I would also try some Hellhounds with HF.

Especially against Ork you need disposable Infantry. Only let him charge 1 squad at a time and not your tanks and stuff.

lash92 wrote:

Spoiler:

 More Dakka wrote:
Ok so Chapter Approved really messed up my list lol, I didn't realize that points on Scions went up in addition to their plasma, so I'm scrapping them for just more boots and tracks on the ground.

Vanguard - Tallarn

HQ

Company Commander

Elites

SWS 3x Plasma gun

SWS 3x Plasma gun

SWS 3x Plasma gun

SWS 3x Plasma gun

SWS 3x Plasma gun

Fast Attack

Scout Sentinel with Multi Laser

Scout Sentinel with Multi Laser

Dedicated Transport

Gryphonne Pattern Chimera
Twin HB, HB

Gryphonne Pattern Chimera
Twin HB, HB

Gryphonne Pattern Chimera
Twin HB, HB

Taurox

Taurox


Spearhead - Catachan

HQ

Company Commander (WL, Grand Strategist, Kurkov's Aquila)

Elites

Sgt Harker

Heavy Support

Basilisk x 2

LR Executioner x 2

LR Conqueror x 2

LR Conqueror x 2

All the vehicles are no upgrades, just stock to squeeze extra stuff in there.

Thoughts and ways I can adjust?

You need screens ^^


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How is the double HF chimera performing?

I'm debating whether to run my mechanised Infantry as Tallarn with the Gryphonne Pattern Chimera or as Catachan with 2xHF. Any thoughts?

I dunno, I've tried screens and just found it doesn't stop from getting assaulted, at least not any better than sacrificing a pair of Chimeras to make a wall to cover my Russes.

I've run double HF chimera's, if you're using them for transport for Catachans they're decent, but keep in mind they're the same price as a Hellhound, so unless you're taking them specifically for the transport role they're not worth it.

MrMoustaffa wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:
Ok so Chapter Approved really messed up my list lol, I didn't realize that points on Scions went up in addition to their plasma, so I'm scrapping them for just more boots and tracks on the ground.

Spoiler:

Vanguard - Tallarn

HQ

Company Commander

Elites

SWS 3x Plasma gun

SWS 3x Plasma gun

SWS 3x Plasma gun

SWS 3x Plasma gun

SWS 3x Plasma gun

Fast Attack

Scout Sentinel with Multi Laser

Scout Sentinel with Multi Laser

Dedicated Transport

Gryphonne Pattern Chimera
Twin HB, HB

Gryphonne Pattern Chimera
Twin HB, HB

Gryphonne Pattern Chimera
Twin HB, HB

Taurox

Taurox


Spearhead - Catachan

HQ

Company Commander (WL, Grand Strategist, Kurkov's Aquila)

Elites

Sgt Harker

Heavy Support

Basilisk x 2

LR Executioner x 2

LR Conqueror x 2

LR Conqueror x 2

All the vehicles are no upgrades, just stock to squeeze extra stuff in there.

Thoughts and ways I can adjust?

Stormtroopers are the same cost as always, and plasma didn't go up in points last I checked, we still pay 13pts or whatever it was for BS 3+ weapons. Battlescribe updated but they've got a few costs wrong, notably plasma. Is that where you saw that points raise? Far as I can tell it's still 9 points per guy and 1pt for the hellguns.

Ah OK I was adding up in Battlescribe so that's where the issue was, I will re-jig the list to get them back in as I really like deepstriking some surgical plasma into the enemy lines and/or grabbing Maelstrom objectives.

Question: fix bayonets. Can you issue this the turn you charge to fight after the enemy fights back?

Orders are issued at the start of the shooting phase and resolved immediately.

tneva82 wrote:


What in return of SWS's? Note it's power level so don't need to drop anything for points to fit flamers into chimera. Bigger issue is models. I have only one with that(the one I painted on weekend) and apat from me being strict WYSIWYG apart from grenades & pistols/cc weapons in profile the league enforces same WYSIWYG limit as well. Thus unless I find parts, speed paint them and hack existing weapons off nope can't do and not sure I want 3 twin-h.flamer chimera permanently! Maybe one day get couple more and magnetize them.

Very good point! I'm not used to the whole power level thing so didn't think of that.

You're probably as best at as your can be then - best weigh carefully if you want to use defensive gunners or not depending on the potential harm you can do.

I think your should have a slightly better time this game, dice willing of course!

I finally built up my ultimate catachan tank list and ran it last week against chaos and while it did ok (should have kicked his a$$ but I wasn't paying attention to the 8 dudes holding lascannons during deployment) I had some issues with keeping my manticore and earthshaker batteries alive. So I started looking for something to protect them against things like lascannons. Has anyone considered a void shield generator? I can fit my 2 manticores, 2 earthshakers, 2 wyverns and 30 conscript bubble wrap entirely within 12" of it for a 4+ invuln save. I know it ain't cheap at 190 pistols I figure I'd use the 2cp pass morale test for the conscripts if the meat shield starts to die off. The rest of the list consists of 5x leman russ conquerors with HF sponsons and one standard russ tank commander.

 necron99 wrote:
I finally built up my ultimate catachan tank list and ran it last week against chaos and while it did ok (should have kicked his a$$ but I wasn't paying attention to the 8 dudes holding lascannons during deployment) I had some issues with keeping my manticore and earthshaker batteries alive. So I started looking for something to protect them against things like lascannons. Has anyone considered a void shield generator? I can fit my 2 manticores, 2 earthshakers, 2 wyverns and 30 conscript bubble wrap entirely within 12" of it for a 4+ invuln save. I know it ain't cheap at 190 pistols I figure I'd use the 2cp pass morale test for the conscripts if the meat shield starts to die off. The rest of the list consists of 5x leman russ conquerors with HF sponsons and one standard russ tank commander.

You are still taking the artillery batteries post-CA? Or were you playing with the old point values? I just can't see them being worth the points now, when you could take the actual vehicles for virtually the same cost. I guess a non-degrading statline is good...but the points increase just doesn't sit well with me.

 necron99 wrote:
I finally built up my ultimate catachan tank list and ran it last week against chaos and while it did ok (should have kicked his a$$ but I wasn't paying attention to the 8 dudes holding lascannons during deployment) I had some issues with keeping my manticore and earthshaker batteries alive. So I started looking for something to protect them against things like lascannons. Has anyone considered a void shield generator? I can fit my 2 manticores, 2 earthshakers, 2 wyverns and 30 conscript bubble wrap entirely within 12" of it for a 4+ invuln save. I know it ain't cheap at 190 pistols I figure I'd use the 2cp pass morale test for the conscripts if the meat shield starts to die off. The rest of the list consists of 5x leman russ conquerors with HF sponsons and one standard russ tank commander.

Line of sight blocking is your best bet to keep your artillery safe. Personally I'd drop the sponsons off the Conquerors and just start the game with them clumped side by side to block LOS for your artillery.

Also, my personal play style is to use the artillery as bait. People often don't realize that a Conqueror has nearly the same damage output as a Manticore, it's actually better than a Manticore against T6 and T7 because you're re-rolling to hit at 24". You can use Manticores to scare your opponent to specific deployments.

If the enemy has deepstrike/fast assault that can hit me T1 I put all the artillery one one side of the board and deploy everything else on the other (or close to that and do a feint T1 and move away from the artillery and anything going against it) then just move the surviving artillery away from assault and blast the enemy units.

 exliontamer wrote:
You are still taking the artillery batteries post-CA? Or were you playing with the old point values? I just can't see them being worth the points now, when you could take the actual vehicles for virtually the same cost. I guess a non-degrading statline is good...but the points increase just doesn't sit well with me.

I actually like the non-degrading stat line - means you have to completely kill it. Is the price increase annoying? Yes but that's probably what it should have been to start.

I also like HF sponsons on my conquerors because you know they're getting really close to the action so I want to have some deterrent to assaults and as long as I'm within 24" why not get within 8" and really let them have it Plus auto hitting even if you moved is huge and the catachan rerolls is just stupid...

I am partial to flame tanks myself so I get the appeal, but OMG HF's are expensive!!! If they were half or even 2/3 the cost I would take 3 on all my Conquerors, but You fit 3 HF on 3 Conquerors, you're 2 pts shy of a 4th Conqueror!

The Catachan Conqeuror just puts out a silly amount of shots, and the base price is so good that I bought turrets to start taking 6 of them. With so many shooty armies getting -1 to hit it's great to be able to run up into 12" to deny the ability AND get re-rolls to hit.

 More Dakka wrote:
I am partial to flame tanks myself so I get the appeal, but OMG HF's are expensive!!! If they were half or even 2/3 the cost I would take 3 on all my Conquerors, but You fit 3 HF on 3 Conquerors, you're 2 pts shy of a 4th Conqueror!

The Catachan Conqeuror just puts out a silly amount of shots, and the base price is so good that I bought turrets to start taking 6 of them. With so many shooty armies getting -1 to hit it's great to be able to run up into 12" to deny the ability AND get re-rolls to hit.

Whoa dude - where did you get turrets from? I don't see them on the forgeworld site...

I didn't go that crazy with the HF though - only on the sponsons. The hull gun is a HB.

 More Dakka wrote:
I am partial to flame tanks myself so I get the appeal, but OMG HF's are expensive!!! If they were half or even 2/3 the cost I would take 3 on all my Conquerors, but You fit 3 HF on 3 Conquerors, you're 2 pts shy of a 4th Conqueror!

This! Always take ad many stuff as you can, than start thinking about upgrades like sponsons and stuff.

This might be the wrong place to ask, but do Guard tanks inspire the same sort of fear in opponents, as say, Mortarion, 'Nid monsters, and similar big nasties from other factions do in me?

I haven't played as other factions much, so when I put down a Russ to me, 'it's just a Russ,' but when I see a big model on the other side, I think "how the *)#*&% am I going to deal with that?" I'm curious as to how guard opponents feel when they see it (or other tanks) plop down.

 necron99 wrote:

 exliontamer wrote:
You are still taking the artillery batteries post-CA? Or were you playing with the old point values? I just can't see them being worth the points now, when you could take the actual vehicles for virtually the same cost. I guess a non-degrading statline is good...but the points increase just doesn't sit well with me.

I actually like the non-degrading stat line - means you have to completely kill it. Is the price increase annoying? Yes but that's probably what it should have been to start.

I also like HF sponsons on my conquerors because you know they're getting really close to the action so I want to have some deterrent to assaults and as long as I'm within 24" why not get within 8" and really let them have it Plus auto hitting even if you moved is huge and the catachan rerolls is just stupid...

Basilisks degrade after taking 5 wounds as I recall. That's only two wounds less than an ESP going from 7 to 0. Even at second profile, the enemy still needs to deal with the remaining 4 wounds to get it to bottom profile or kill it for 6 more wounds because you can always pop the Cadian strat to bring it's BS back to normal on a big target if they don't.

When you factor in that it's cheaper, brings along an extra 3 HB shots, and might actually make the occasional save against a Lascannon, I can't see a single reason to bring an ESP now. Other than maybe some shenanigans with shooting into close combat.

Well I mean some of those things are on different levels/in different categories.

Mortarion, for instance, is extremely tough to kill...what with a 4++ and Disgustingly Resilient. Just a big old pain in the ass. Same with Magnus. They need A LOT of massed fire to bring them down. You couldn't compare either to a Russ...which is T8 sure...but with only W12 and no invuln it can be handled by specialized weapons such as Lascannons. TBH even a Baneblade, monster that it is, still dies reliably to AP-3 and above.

I am not as familiar with the Nid big nasties, but my general axiom is this: if it is big and the weapons/powers are gross AND it has an invuln, I am sweating. If no invuln, no big deal. Just bring the right tools for the job.

RogueApiary wrote:

Basilisks degrade after taking 5 wounds as I recall. That's only two wounds less than an ESP going from 7 to 0. Even at second profile, the enemy still needs to deal with the remaining 4 wounds to get it to bottom profile or kill it for 6 more wounds because you can always pop the Cadian strat to bring it's BS back to normal on a big target if they don't.

When you factor in that it's cheaper, brings along an extra 3 HB shots, and might actually make the occasional save against a Lascannon, I can't see a single reason to bring an ESP now. Other than maybe some shenanigans with shooting into close combat.

Yeah, ok, you make some extremely valid points. Can I claim fake news? How about I just bought the stupid earthshakers right before all the leaks about their point increase? I hate you GW...

4100xpb wrote:
This might be the wrong place to ask, but do Guard tanks inspire the same sort of fear in opponents, as say, Mortarion, 'Nid monsters, and similar big nasties from other factions do in me?

I haven't played as other factions much, so when I put down a Russ to me, 'it's just a Russ,' but when I see a big model on the other side, I think "how the *)#*&% am I going to deal with that?" I'm curious as to how guard opponents feel when they see it (or other tanks) plop down.

It's not the Leman Russ by itself, which is inspiring the fear. It's more the fact that I'm putting down 5 of them ;-)

 More Dakka wrote:
I am partial to flame tanks myself so I get the appeal, but OMG HF's are expensive!!! If they were half or even 2/3 the cost I would take 3 on all my Conquerors, but You fit 3 HF on 3 Conquerors, you're 2 pts shy of a 4th Conqueror!

The Catachan Conqeuror just puts out a silly amount of shots, and the base price is so good that I bought turrets to start taking 6 of them. With so many shooty armies getting -1 to hit it's great to be able to run up into 12" to deny the ability AND get re-rolls to hit.

I can say from experience a hellhound with a Hull Heavy Flamer is insane. The number of wounds it forces through for 110pts is great. A heavy bolter is 9pts less but will be hitting on 5's virtually every turn so you're look at 1 hit vs. d6 with a re-roll.

The thing to put on conquerors is storm bolters. Within 12" you're shooting 4+4+3+d6+d6, re-rolling the D6.. Likely reaching 20 shots per turn. Again, great against chaff!

The thing with hellhounds is that the need to get close for the heavy flamer is more of a feature than a bug. It can always charge if things go pear shaped, and even if you degrade, the flamer/inferno cannon autohit. Finally, if you are wrecked, you explode for mortal wounds on a 4+ (and this is a great use for a reroll )

I am going to jump on the conqueror love bandwagon. Its such a solid and reliable tank with Catachan tactics. However I never do seem to be able to justify taking the sponsons. Usually I am moving it to creep into 24" inch range for the co-axial storm bolter re-rolls so I feel like paying 16 points for 2 extra hits on average is a bit pricey.

Question for anyone with experience playing the ITC missions adapted from BRB Eternal War with Maelstrom elements- would you go 9 Lemans or 6 and a Shadowsword?

 More Dakka wrote:
The Catachan Conqeuror just puts out a silly amount of shots, and the base price is so good that I bought turrets to start taking 6 of them.

Where did you find them? They're OOP from Forgeworld. I have 3 from before (converted to battle tanks back when the Conq was trash - I just liked the look of the turret), but I'd really like to have more.