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Alright guys, I played in a tourney today, and someone argued a rule to me that I didn't contest, but still feel unsure of.

Basically it's like this. I've got a squad of heavy weapons (3 units at 2 wounds each). I got shot up and suffered 3 wounds. Can I put one wound on each or do I lose one unit and cause a wound to another?

My understanding was that you put a wound on each one, and once everything has a wound you start back over with extra wounds and allocate those. The rule book is not exactly clear to me in explaining how wound allocation works.

Necroshea wrote:Alright guys, I played in a tourney today, and someone argued a rule to me that I didn't contest, but still feel unsure of.

Basically it's like this. I've got a squad of heavy weapons (3 units at 2 wounds each). I got shot up and suffered 3 wounds. Can I put one wound on each or do I lose one unit and cause a wound to another?

My understanding was that you put a wound on each one, and once everything has a wound you start back over with extra wounds and allocate those. The rule book is not exactly clear to me in explaining how wound allocation works.

If all the unit member have different stats and gears, then 1 each.

If they are the same, then you allocate on same one till it dies, and next model

Ok, he was right, that's good. So would you mind explaining the biker nob complaining that happened last edition? (Or is it this edition?)

Necroshea wrote:Ok, he was right, that's good. So would you mind explaining the biker nob complaining that happened last edition? (Or is it this edition?)

I think its this edition.

Basically if every guy has different wargear in the same unit. everyone takes a wound first before it comes back to add 2nd wound.

so maybe 1 has boss pole and large choppa
1 has large choppa
1 has power claw
1 has combie weapon


or something like that

Ok, I see now.

So if my heavy weapons squad was joined by, say, a commisar lord. Squad takes 4 wounds. Would it go 1 to model, one to lord, one to model, one to lord?

Necroshea wrote:Ok, I see now.

So if my heavy weapons squad was joined by, say, a commisar lord. Squad takes 4 wounds. Would it go 1 to model, one to lord, one to model, one to lord?

I dont know xD sowwy

Ok, page 25 on complex units.

Because having a lord in the group would mean not everything is that same, it would work out as one wound on everything, then once everyone has a wound, you start back over.

Still, thanks luna!

In my understanding, No.

If your commissar and 3 lascannon heavy weapon teams take four wounds, you allocate one to him and three to the teams, and roll the saves for the weapon teams as a group since they are all identical. If you fail all four saves, commissar takes one in the teeth, you remove one weapon team, and another team has a wound.

Now, IF your squad is a commissar, a lascannon team, an autocannon team, and a missile launcher team, and you take four wounds, you allocate one to each, and if all four fail, each model takes a single wound.

Ok, that makes sense. Basically making them two different entities in terms of wounds.

The reason this is popping up now is I finally got around to switching from mech guard to foot slogging, and I've never really run hw teams before.

Still...so what about a regular guardsmen squad? 8 troops, 1 melta, one sergeant. Would 4 wounds be one to melta, one to sergeant, and 2 to the troops?

Still...so what about a regular guardsmen squad? 8 troops, 1 melta, one sergeant. Would 4 wounds be one to melta, one to sergeant, and 2 to the troops?

If you wanted, though it is more beneficial to assign them all to the group of lasgun redshirts rather than take a chance at your useful models going off the board. A better example would be 15 wounds come in on the squad (I know!) You assign one wound per model, knocking out ten of the wounds, then you take the remaining 5 wounds and assign it to the lasgunner group, since it has more than enough models to allow it. Your sarge and special weapon now only make one save instead of two.

Assume that the sarge and the meltagun both make their saves. The remaining 13 wounds on the lasgunners? ALL of them fail their saves. Only the lasguns (The group those wounds were assigned to) go away. Your sarge and melta are safe.

SOFDC wrote:

Still...so what about a regular guardsmen squad? 8 troops, 1 melta, one sergeant. Would 4 wounds be one to melta, one to sergeant, and 2 to the troops?

If you wanted, though it is more beneficial to assign them all to the group of lasgun redshirts rather than take a chance at your useful models going off the board. A better example would be 15 wounds come in on the squad (I know!) You assign one wound per model, knocking out ten of the wounds, then you take the remaining 5 wounds and assign it to the lasgunner group, since it has more than enough models to allow it. Your sarge and special weapon now only make one save instead of two.

Assume that the sarge and the meltagun both make their saves. The remaining 13 wounds on the lasgunners? ALL of them fail their saves. Only the lasguns (The group those wounds were assigned to) go away. Your sarge and melta are safe.

Why wouldn't 4 wounds touch the segeant or melta gunner? They've got different equipment and in the sergeants case, different stats.

EDIT: MISUNDERSTOOD. Rewriting post.

Why wouldn't 4 wounds touch the segeant or melta gunner? They've got different equipment and in the sergeants case, different stats.

Because they did not have any of those wounds allocated to them, they have different stats or equipment and are thus in a different allocation "Group" ...wounds from one group do not bleed onto another, whether it is one wound or a million.

Man this stuff is confusing...
To put it into something that I understand, lets say I do this:

5 Sternies with combi-meltas
5 Sternies with 2 combi-meltas and 3 meltaguns

Lets say the squad takes 3 wounds. How would wound allocation work in this instance?

5 Sternies with combi-meltas
5 Sternies with 2 combi-meltas and 3 meltaguns

Lets say the squad takes 3 wounds.

First squad with 5 sternguard and CMs: You take three wounds, roll three saves. Take any failed saves and remove that many models from the squad.

Second squad with 2 CM and 3 Meltas: You have a variety of options here. You can assign all three wound to the meltagun portion of the squad, and roll like you do in example one, OR you can allocate one wound to the combi part of the squad, and the other two to the meltaguns (Or vice versa). Then proceed like above for each group.

Let's say I don't care about keeping the meltaguns so much, but I don't want them to go away completely (Maybe taking all the meltagunners off the board puts me out of range for assault next turn, or something.) I will allocate two wounds to the 3 meltagunners. I fail both. I take two meltagunners off the board, my choice which two. Then I take the one remaining wound on the combi-melta section of the squad, roll a dice. Failure. Take one combi-weapon off the board. Curse my dice.

In the before mentioned example about the commi lord and hw, the commi lord has to take a wound if 4 hit the squad. Why would the same not occur with a regular squad of troops? The lord gets a smack because he's got different stats/equipment, so why wouldn't a sergeant and melta get a thump? They have different equipment than lasgunners. once again this example is with 4 wounds.

SOFDC wrote:

5 Sternies with combi-meltas
5 Sternies with 2 combi-meltas and 3 meltaguns

Lets say the squad takes 3 wounds.

First squad with 5 sternguard and CMs: You take three wounds, roll three saves. Take any failed saves and remove that many models from the squad.

Second squad with 2 CM and 3 Meltas: You have a variety of options here. You can assign all three wound to the meltagun portion of the squad, and roll like you do in example one, OR you can allocate one wound to the combi part of the squad, and the other two to the meltaguns (Or vice versa). Then proceed like above for each group.

Let's say I don't care about keeping the meltaguns so much, but I don't want them to go away completely (Maybe taking all the meltagunners off the board puts me out of range for assault next turn, or something.) I will allocate two wounds to the 3 meltagunners. I fail both. I take two meltagunners off the board, my choice which two. Then I take the one remaining wound on the combi-melta section of the squad, roll a dice. Failure. Take one combi-weapon off the board. Curse my dice.

Thanks! Easier for me to understand then the IG stuff

ok, page 25 of the rule book says this in regards to units with models that have different stats/gear

"the player must allocate one wound to each model in the target unit before he can allocate a second wound to the same model."

So...yeah, any unit with a sergeant or equivilant would work like this based on the above rule.

A heavy weapon squad with all the units in it using the same weapon. Against 3 wounds, one model dies and another takes a wound.

Same hw squad above, but with commi lord. Against 3 wounds, 3 of the units take one wound.

In the before mentioned example about the commi lord and hw, the commi lord has to take a wound if 4 hit the squad. Why would the same not occur with a regular squad of troops?

Because with four wounds incoming on the commissar + 3 HWs = 4 models. One model must each take a wound.
Four wounds hitting a 10 man squad with 8 lasguns, a sargeant and a meltagun = 4 models must take a wound, but WHICH four are up to you.

Similar question: Squad of 3 Obliterators, 2W each, 3 wounds to allocate.

So since they all have the same wargear I would lose one Oblit rather than having each suffer a wound?

Artanis wrote:Similar question: Squad of 3 Obliterators, 2W each, 3 wounds to allocate.

So since they all have the same wargear I would lose one Oblit rather than having each suffer a wound?

Correct.

This system is what makes Ork Nobz so incredibly tough to kill if equipped right.
Case 1: 8 "naked" Nobz (2W each) take 8 wounds and fail all saves - as they are all the same you'd have to remove 4 models, halving the squad's hitting power.

Case 2: 8 Nobz
#1 Power Klaw
#2 Power Klaw + Warbanna
#3 Power Klaw + Boss Pole
#4 Big Choppa
#5 Big Choppa + Kombi-Skorcha
#6 Kombi-Skorcha
#7 Slugga + Choppa
#8 Painboy

If this squad were to take 8 unsaved wounds, you could allocate one wound to each differently-equipped model "group", thus each model would lose 1HP but at no loss of hitting power. With the amount of equip options available to Nobz you could easily get 15+ different wound groups in just one squad, making them soak up loads of pain before they actually suffer any loss of efficiency. Really the only thing that scares them is weapons that kill them outright (S8+).

The easy intuitive way is to use your dice.
Say you take 5 lasgun wounds and 2 plasma gun wounds. Use 5 white dice for lasguns and 2 red dice for plasma.

First, place each wound evenly, as each guy must take a wound before you can place a 2nd wound. When you have leftovers, you can place them where you want.

2nd, pick up the dice and roll by type. You'll have stacks of dice next to each model. If several models are the same, you pick up all of their dice and roll them together.