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I was reading the thread earlier on the teenager who was beaten by her step-dad with a wooden sword and the ensuing discussion on it being child abuse and beyond the realms of discipline (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/406156.page) and it reminded me of a debate I have had with a number of people on a safeguarding course, over what is acceptable as discipline and what is abuse. For me I have been clipped round the head, had my hand, backside and legs smacked and my mouth washed out with soap for saying a naughty word. I see all these as perfectly acceptable forms of discipline and not abuse. I'm not talking about full punches and slaps, but enough to sting. They made me a better person I feel as I learnt what is right and wrong, when I was young and bit my mum I was bitten back, only hard enough to cause some pain, but it stopped me from ever doing it again. It works when used right, and in no way did I ever feel as though I was being abused or hurt. I had done wrong and was being punished. Sometimes I had things taken away and bans put in place as well, all fine. Hell I even get a light smack when I go home and do something wrong now and I'm 21 and living in a different part of the country, only now my mum has to stand on a stool to reach.

So in your view what is acceptable in terms of discipline and when does it start crossing the line.

Washing a child's mouth out with soap is borderline insanity.

Your parents are fethed in the head.

I had been warned, kept swearing so they got a bar of soap rubbed a little on my tongue and that was it. Not a proper washing out I suppose but it done the trick for a while. I don't see anything wrong, it wasn't harmful just unpleasant.

Did they hold open your mouth and rub the soap on your tongue, or did you willingly accept it?

The occasional smack never hurt anyone... I don't see why it need to escalate to forcing a child to ingest soap.

Thanks to the wonders of liquid soap washing a childs mouth out with soap is much easier now.

It tastes horrible and the taste stays long after the soap is gone, taught me a lesson alright.

I didn't resist, it was that or being grounded. Does no harm so no real problem. As I said in my OP I was taught to respect my parents, that included when being disciplined to accept it.

Azza007 wrote:I was reading the thread earlier on the teenager who was beaten by her step-dad with a wooden sword and the ensuing discussion on it being child abuse and beyond the realms of discipline (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/406156.page) and it reminded me of a debate I have had with a number of people on a safeguarding course, over what is acceptable as discipline and what is abuse. For me I have been clipped round the head, had my hand, backside and legs smacked and my mouth washed out with soap for saying a naughty word. I see all these as perfectly acceptable forms of discipline and not abuse. I'm not talking about full punches and slaps, but enough to sting. They made me a better person I feel as I learnt what is right and wrong, when I was young and bit my mum I was bitten back, only hard enough to cause some pain, but it stopped me from ever doing it again. It works when used right, and in no way did I ever feel as though I was being abused or hurt. I had done wrong and was being punished. Sometimes I had things taken away and bans put in place as well, all fine. Hell I even get a light smack when I go home and do something wrong now and I'm 21 and living in a different part of the country, only now my mum has to stand on a stool to reach.

So in your view what is acceptable in terms of discipline and when does it start crossing the line.

Send 'em to the coal mine before eight or its too late.

Not acceptable IMO...
Physical punishment anyway.
Grounding someone or putting them in the corner/on the step etc is fine.

Spare the rod, spoil the fun as my old headmaster used to say. Incidentally, I heard he now works at a BDSM club.

I believe in punishment when it comes to my kids. They know that if they mess up, they are going to get spanked, or slapped across the mouth or put in the corner, or maybe a variation of the 3. My kids know what they should and shouldnt do. And so far, my son is in the top of his class, and his teachers say he is the most well behaved kid in their classes. My daughter is tracking just as well so far in her preschool.

My parents raised me the same way, my brothers and I were punished, we were grounded, we got spanked, all that stuff. Every one of us turned out pretty damn well. So yea, Im a big advocate for that line of teaching. But punishment is not beating/abuse, those are two totally different things

It's not abuse to discipline your children, it's abuse when it's not discipline anymore.
Washing a mouth out with soap, that's not insanity. It has no medical side effects and teaches a lesson.
Paddling hurts but isn't exactly the most brutal form punishment.
Going to bed without dinner, that was a necessity in my house more than once. So as a punishment it's not exactly a heart wrenching story of abuse and neglect.
Getting whipped and beaten with the buckle end of a state championship rodeo belt just because Da is drunk, well there's abuse.
Drinking Drano, abuse.

In the Uk, You cannot use unceccesary chastisement.

If a child walked into a police staion and claimed they have been struck and may be struck in the future then its an assault charge right there and maybe willful neglect.

Washing a mouth out with soap and water is unneccesary chastisement and cause of willful neglect and assault.

Don't blame me, its the law (here anyway).

You should be allowed to discipline your children.

I've swatted my kids backsides on a few occasions..but I would always sit them down afterwards and explain to them what they'd done wrong.
For the most part their both pretty well behaved and happy kids, sure...they misbehave from time to time...but it seldom takes more than a stern look to get them to act right.

My mother always apologizes for slapping me when I was a kid. I just laugh and tell her that it builds character.

Slapping your child in the face because he back talks you and hitting them with a wooden sword are two totally different things though... The line is difficult to draw.

I stayed out of trouble as a kid not because I was afraid of the situation or teacher or what not, its because I didn't want to face my mom and dad. I was spanked enough to know not to do what I did wrong again and I respected my parents (and still do) enough not to swear in front of them (though I cuss like a sailor around other people).

My oldest brother on the other hand apparently liked the taste of soap due to swearing when he was a kid. My mom said he used to bite down on the soap and it would curl up behind his teeth when she tried to pull it out. Never was to bright.....

My kid only responds to whippings as "time out" or taking activities/items away from him doesn't bother him one bit.

My parents spanked me with a wooden or plastic spoon.

They only did it when I had done something they had clearly and expressly forbidden and I knew it.

They only did it when they were in complete control of their emotions (often five minutes after the crime).

They always explained to me that they were doing it for my good and safety and because they loved me.


I personally believe it is one of the most useful forms of punishment (dependent upon the personality of the child).

I think corporal punishment can be a good thing for some families, I used to get it when I was younger but now a days I just get grounded or get a long tortuous talk.

Cheesecat wrote:I think corporal punishment can be good thing for some families, I used to get it when I was younger but now a days I just get grounded or get a long tortuous talk.

I swear I was grounded about 200 days a year when I was a kid.

As I said in the Sword fighting thread, being smacked and disciplined as a kid does no harm at all. I firmly believe it made me a good, well behaved kid and a sensible feet on the ground adult.
Yes, there is a line between discipline and abuse and it should never be crossed. The laws here are pathetic though. The reason we have gakky little yobs hanging around on streets etc is because their parents can't or won't discipline them...and those parents were brought up the same way.
A good smack around the ear is no problem, as long as it is justified. As Fitzz says, as long as you sit them down later and explain the reasons why you swatted them, then do it. Kids need to be taught respect...

Scrabb wrote:My parents spanked me with a wooden or plastic spoon.

They only did it when I had done something they had clearly and expressly forbidden and I knew it.

They only did it when they were in complete control of their emotions (often five minutes after the crime).

They always explained to me that they were doing it for my good and safety and because they loved me.


I personally believe it is one of the most useful forms of punishment (dependent upon the personality of the child).

Emphasis mine.

This, this, ten thousand times this. Disiplining a child requires you be in control of yourself. If you are not in control, take five minutes to regain control. Otherwise you risk going beyond what is necessary and into capricious self-gratification, and that can quickly become abuse. Even if you wind inflicting exactly the same punishment, there is a world of difference between getting spanked for your own good by a calm parent, and getting spanked by an anrgy parent trying to make themselves feel better. Calm punishment teaches one not to misbehave, angry punishment teaches one that one's parents hate them (it's rarely ever true, but it sure feels that way at the time).

Yes, that is personal experience, by the way.

KingCracker wrote:I believe in punishment when it comes to my kids. They know that if they mess up, they are going to get spanked, or slapped across the mouth or put in the corner, or maybe a variation of the 3.

You hit your kids in the face?

Gee, my kids well behaved and I have never spanked them. I find reason, denial of priviledges, and rewarding correct behavior works much better.

Huh?

I guess that means it isn't necessary to swack my kid to get their attention to behave.

Wait, so putting soap in your kids mouth is a widely accepted form of punishment?

Heh. Yeah, it totally is.

It got the point across to me about swearing as a kid. At least around my parents.

Medium of Death wrote:Wait, so putting soap in your kids mouth is a widely accepted form of punishment?

has been for quite some time...though my Grandmother favored hot sauce over soap ( little did she know I liked the hot sauce).

Would you do it to your own kids?

It just seems to go over the line in my mind.

Smacking a child (within reason) is a single act.

To get soap in a child's mouth what do you do? Grab the child, hold it's mouth open, put soap inside. Seems cruel and unusual imho.

Easy E wrote:Gee, my kids well behaved and I have never spanked them. I find reason, denial of priviledges, and rewarding correct behavior works much better.

Huh?

I guess that means it isn't necessary to swack my kid to get their attention to behave.

Some kids are quiet and well-behaved by nature. Others... not so much. Why is Calvin and Hobbes so funny? Because we all know of a kid like that, way too much energy and imagination for his own good, always getting him into trouble. Suzi, on the other hand, is the complete opposite; we all know someone like that too.

What works for one kid doesn't always work for another. For my sister, being sent to her room with no phone access was the worst thing you could do to her. For me, it was a chance to catch up on my reading and no big deal.

Medium of Death wrote:Wait, so putting soap in your kids mouth is a widely accepted form of punishment?

My immediate family never did it but it's one that's been used for decades, it's probably so well known that I wouldn't be surprised if there was TV sitcoms or movies that feature it as well.

When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds- pretty standard really.

Monster Rain wrote:When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds- pretty standard really.

You're joking right?