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 Captain Roderick wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


What in return of SWS's? Note it's power level so don't need to drop anything for points to fit flamers into chimera. Bigger issue is models. I have only one with that(the one I painted on weekend) and apat from me being strict WYSIWYG apart from grenades & pistols/cc weapons in profile the league enforces same WYSIWYG limit as well. Thus unless I find parts, speed paint them and hack existing weapons off nope can't do and not sure I want 3 twin-h.flamer chimera permanently! Maybe one day get couple more and magnetize them.

Very good point! I'm not used to the whole power level thing so didn't think of that.

You're probably as best at as your can be then - best weigh carefully if you want to use defensive gunners or not depending on the potential harm you can do.

I think your should have a slightly better time this game, dice willing of course!

Yeah PL changes things a bit but at least I like them. Makes building army quick&easy which suits us seeing we aren't min-maxing to hell, use fairly strict WYSIWYG(standard pistols and grenades we are more lax) and models have been built over the years for what looks nice so no abuse thus didn't mind league using it.

Hopefully game is bit better than last where scenario rules really hindered. The deployment zones are pretty annoying here too but with the army fitting into small area I'm hopefully able to avoid first turn charges maybe. If not then damn again. Would basically reduce game to standing still and firing and seeing if I have enough firepower.

These rules are also really screwing up regiment balance. Can't figure reason to take anything but cadian(since you often end up just sitting still with no reason to move anyway) or catachan for template dice reroll. Tallarn? You don't have room to manouver. Any of the range boosters suffer from you not being in trouble of getting stuff to rapid fire range anyway let alone within 24"!

And since models are def not catachan looking pretty much settled by that.

Has anyone ever had an officer with the Laurels of Command issue Fix Bayonets, killed everything in close combat, then been able to FRFSRF or something else? It's like a best case scenario. Just thought that would be really cool.

My dumb ass just finally realized that Grand Strategist is 5+ per command point. Not per Stratagem. I probably won't even bother with Kurov's Aquila anymore.

 Colonel Cross wrote:
Has anyone ever had an officer with the Laurels of Command issue Fix Bayonets, killed everything in close combat, then been able to FRFSRF or something else? It's like a best case scenario. Just thought that would be really cool.

My dumb ass just finally realized that Grand Strategist is 5+ per command point. Not per Stratagem. I probably won't even bother with Kurov's Aquila anymore.

What? Kurov's Aquila works on the opponent's stratagem.

So take both the Relic and the WT.

The WT gives you a 5+ per Command Point spent, and Kurov's Aquila gives you a CP on a 5+ when your opponent uses a Stratagem (Regardless of the cost)

True, but I don't need THAT many command points. I usually have 7-12 CPs. I have yet to use all of mine in recent weeks, even with only 7.

Nice one. I thought it was per stratagem too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did Chapter approved clarify if an MT detachment still get the regimental bonus if it contains Auxilla? (i.e. Astropaths?)

Why wouldn't? Theyget regimental doctrine as perauxilia rule. What makes confusing there?

tneva82 wrote:
Why wouldn't? Theyget regimental doctrine as perauxilia rule. What makes confusing there?

The argument hinges around the following paragraph on page 132:

Codex: Astra Militarum wrote: MILITARUM TEMPESTUS units can be included in an ASTRA MILITARUM Detachment without preventing other units in that Detachment from gaining a Regimental Doctrine. Note, however, that the MILITARUM TEMPESTUS units do not themselves benefit from any Regimental Doctrine unless every unit in that Detachment is from the Militarum Tempestus (in which case they will gain the Storm Troopers doctrine).

The italicized emphasis as mine, but you can see where the confusion comes from.

Aah not having any models haven't done more than cursory glance on them. Humhum.

Ya on first glance it seems obvious but then you dig a bit deeper and the confusion grows. Has anyone had the issue raised at a tournament.

Similarly the Relic of Cadia RAW doesn't specify its a one use only. Has anyone taken it for a tournament?

CaptainO wrote:
Ya on first glance it seems obvious but then you dig a bit deeper and the confusion grows. Has anyone had the issue raised at a tournament.

Similarly the Relic of Cadia RAW doesn't specify its a one use only. Has anyone taken it for a tournament?

Yes. Common agreement is that the Relic of Lost Cadia, while presumably intended to be one-use-only, is in fact able to be used multiple times (at least for now).

Two errata's and a chapter approved later you think they'd have corrected that!

CaptainO wrote:
Two errata's and a chapter approved later you think they'd have corrected that!

Agreed. *shrug*

I always take the Aquilla but I changed my Spearhead detachment containing Pask and two LRBTs and a HWT to a Supreme command (lost the HWT) with pask and two tank commanders all with Punishers and lascannons. It means that in a tournament if I come up against chaos I can spend 1 CP and be able to take the relic of cadia and give it to one of the Tank commanders.

I could even splash out another 2 CPs and give the other tank commander the laurels of command so first turn I can give Pask gunners kill on sight and strike and shroud (they'll all be moving 5" so wont avail of the Cadian doctrines reroll 1s)

 Colonel Cross wrote:
Has anyone ever had an officer with the Laurels of Command issue Fix Bayonets, killed everything in close combat, then been able to FRFSRF or something else? It's like a best case scenario. Just thought that would be really cool.

My dumb ass just finally realized that Grand Strategist is 5+ per command point. Not per Stratagem. I probably won't even bother with Kurov's Aquila anymore.

I usually hit them with Bring It Down or Aim! and then use the laurels for Fix Bayonets. That way I don't care if the line was cleared of models or not.

Got home from the league game and happy to say that the traitorous space wolf scum were defeated! Or maybe I was the traitors and they were the loyal ones. Seeing I had sons of horus dices that kept rolling 6's maybe so List I took mentioned before but basically plasma Pask, 3 chimeras with 2 inf squads and 2 special weapon squads in one plus spare infantry squad. Plan was to cram army into small space to hopefully avoid first turn charges(enemy deployment zones being triangles going from center of edge to adjacent with min 3" betwen enemy units on 120cmx120cm tables...That's crowded and close! Also wanted to minimize deployment drops to hopefully get +1 for first turn and helped that as per scenario I start deploying first. As I had lost last week and he had drewn I would be the one in the middle. As mentioned I ran into space wolves but rather than up close and personal I expected these were rather shooty ones! Commander of "reroll 1's to hit", 2 squads of heavy weapon guys(one with 2 lascannon and 2 missile launcher or so, one with plasma cannons instead of missile launchers) and 5 wolfens with 2 thunder hammers and 3 stormshields plus claws plus squad of grey hunters(10). Surprising list.

Picture taken after my first turn movement having won first turn and he failed to seize. Unsurprisingly I wanted to go first! Still made plenty of small mistakes but let's see. First turn heavy flamer chimera drove next to wolfens and another drew to right. This was first mistake. I should have stayed back even at the risk of not reaching spot to see wolfens on ruins on bottom-right of picture where was also missile+lasscannon squad on top of ruins. Rest of force was on top-left.

BTW terrain was kinda tinted in his favour I think...He had goof firebase everywhere. I let him do it and didn't even know what list he had so didn't comment. Ah well I like challenges.

Foot infantry went ahead to block grey hunters. Here should have measured actually can they reach pask yet. Either way I dropped one non-heavy weapon guy from plasma squad, dropped wolfen and vaporized missile launcher squad. HAH take that your 2+ in cover guys. 2d6+2d3 pask'ed up plasma shot eats through that. So far turn 1 was good but problem was the chimera I had moved right. I really, really, REALLY wanted wolfens to either just walk forward(that I can deal) or attack the heavy flamer chimera. Here the other chimera was reasonable range to reach on charge thus putting them close to pask & co...Whoops. Luckily he made his own mistake and went for the heavy flamer chimera. Yey! Grey hunters moved up and shooting. I had forgot to use shoot+smoke order with pask who ate some damage as did chimera on left. Grey hunters fired at my inf squad and I screwed up here AGAIN. I should have either taken damage from front all the way making his charge range impossible or from back leaving front line far from pask. Either way was possible. I messed up and did both resulting in him charging, wiping out the remnant(didn't even bother force him to roll the dice) and were just able to get within 1" of pask....Whoopps. Wolfens also damaged chimera badly though lost one to overwatch.

On my turn Pask fell back, special weapon squads disembarked. Crucially I forgot to move chimera OUT of combat so they were still in combat...I had killed them to 1 when we realized so back to 3 they went down. Whoops. Anyway on right with pask unable to shoot I used chimera to buy time. Alas again tiny mistake as I forgot to unload squad. Not critical here but could have. Either way chimera took some beating but crucially wasn't destroyed. I also survived his turn fairly well though pask and chimera on left went to worse stage. Chimera blew out and infantry squad came out. He tagged them into combat but that wasn't too much of a worry. Curious event this turn though was rather than charge into special weapon squad wolfens started to run away! 3 left, I had 2 squads of 6 there. Okay he would have to eat overwatch of 3 flamers, would likely kill them, tag other squad into combat, I fall back and he charges and eats overwatch of flamer+2 plasma. Feels like odds were there in his favour but as objective was killing power levels guess he tried to save expensive wolves rather than try to kill the 4 PL's. Either way this ended badly when I chased and with 15 flamer hits and 9 wounds from trio of flamers they went down. Pask fired up and killed all but 2 grey hunters while infantry squad formed up screen. Took them down by overwatch and combat. Even for safety brought remaining squad to combat though I should have headed toward plasma squad but they died to lasguns, multilasers, heavy bolter and 2 rounds of shooting from pask. I the end he had just his warlord where I wouldn't get in time(especially since pask and chimera were on last bracket). I had lost 2 chimera, one squad of infantry, half wounded chimera and half wounded pask so 7+3+3+6+6=25 PL. Pretty clear win for me.

So what did I learn?

a) Pask with plasma is plain rude!
b) people dismiss flamers a lot but at least in these league scenarios and power levels I like them. Range is no issue in these scenarios and PL ensures they aren't expensive per se and auto hit is just soooo good especially as I struggle generally to hit. And that move 12" shoot 2d6 autohit chimera is just rude!
c) chimera's surprised me lot. Speed was handy, ability to actually charge with something that isn't quaranteed to melt in return could be useful, gave me less drops and fired okay. Wish I didn't have multi-lasers now that 8th ed made them SUCK.
d) I really, really, REALLY need to tighten up on these silly mistakes. Chimera movement on turn 1 wasn't that bad. It's not QUITE so obvious though should have realized I dont' want to make it any easier for wolvens to get to center. Walk slowly without charging or charge the bait flamer chimera. Those should be options I present. The casualty removal was plain stupid. I should have just picked one way to protect and be done. Of course whole screen might have been unneeded as they were rather far as he had wanted to keep them out of LOS. Mistake IMO as the heavy weapon guys were primary target from get go. Even if hunters were in open I wouldn't have likely fired at them. MAYBE with inafntry squad. And not moving heavy flamer chimera out of combat was unacceptable. Not used to vehicles being locked in combat and at home we are rather lax about these and timing. Here we would have just moved chimera to side a bit as that was obviious intent and I wouldn't gain anything by having him in that positiion(but shoot). Obviously not asking this on league game though.
e) I really, really, REALLY dislike 8th ed terrain. Apart from those ruins heavy weapons hid it impacted nothing really. Pask is 99% covered up by ruin? Nope nothing. Nothing slows down, nothing really blocked LOS. Bleargh.
Next game is 60PL and I get to use battallion. Yey! Next year though due to christmas.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 Colonel Cross wrote:
Has anyone ever had an officer with the Laurels of Command issue Fix Bayonets, killed everything in close combat, then been able to FRFSRF or something else? It's like a best case scenario. Just thought that would be really cool.

My dumb ass just finally realized that Grand Strategist is 5+ per command point. Not per Stratagem. I probably won't even bother with Kurov's Aquila anymore.

I usually hit them with Bring It Down or Aim! and then use the laurels for Fix Bayonets. That way I don't care if the line was cleared of models or not.

How could you use any order other than Get Back in the Fight or Fix Bayonets first?

 Colonel Cross wrote:
How could you use any order other than Get Back in the Fight or Fix Bayonets first?

I strongly, strongly advise everyone in this thread go take a very close look at the rules for Orders. I see people doing them wrong constantly, and it's important to know how they work since they're incredibly core to the faction.

All Orders must be issued at the beginning of the phase, but only two take effect immediately: Fix Bayonets! and Move! Move! Move!.

All the rest, including all the regimental Orders, apply an effect until the end of the current phase. You can order FRFSRF, have your Russ open up a transport, and then spray down the passengers later in the turn with rapid fire 2 lasguns. Or in the case cited, order Bring it Down/Take Aim and then Fix Bayonets to Fight with re-rolls.

tneva82 wrote:


Yeah PL changes things a bit but at least I like them. Makes building army quick&easy which suits us seeing we aren't min-maxing to hell, use fairly strict WYSIWYG(standard pistols and grenades we are more lax) and models have been built over the years for what looks nice so no abuse thus didn't mind league using it.

Hopefully game is bit better than last where scenario rules really hindered. The deployment zones are pretty annoying here too but with the army fitting into small area I'm hopefully able to avoid first turn charges maybe. If not then damn again. Would basically reduce game to standing still and firing and seeing if I have enough firepower.

These rules are also really screwing up regiment balance. Can't figure reason to take anything but cadian(since you often end up just sitting still with no reason to move anyway) or catachan for template dice reroll. Tallarn? You don't have room to manouver. Any of the range boosters suffer from you not being in trouble of getting stuff to rapid fire range anyway let alone within 24"!

And since models are def not catachan looking pretty much settled by that.

1. Might it not also cause everyone taking every possible upgrade?
2. The tournament setup is pretty nuts. I'd be taking a couple of battalions at your level and you're stuck with a patrol! Makes it hard to be guard.
3. Remember your can always use the doctrines whatever your appearance, it's the warlord traits and relics you can't use if you're not "official" <regiment> (I think). Catachan would probably do pretty well, especially if you got heavy flamers on vehicles but yeah magnetise if you can

Thoughts on Knight vs Baneblande Variant alongside Guard? Prices seem similar, Tanks with more shooting but Knight with better BS and better melee. Hard to tell which is more useful in the long run.

KestrelM1 wrote:

 Colonel Cross wrote:
How could you use any order other than Get Back in the Fight or Fix Bayonets first?

I strongly, strongly advise everyone in this thread go take a very close look at the rules for Orders. I see people doing them wrong constantly, and it's important to know how they work since they're incredibly core to the faction.

All Orders must be issued at the beginning of the phase, but only two take effect immediately: Fix Bayonets! and Move! Move! Move!.

All the rest, including all the regimental Orders, apply an effect to the end of the current phase. You can order FRFSRF, have your Russ open up a transport, and then spray it down later in the turn with rapid fire 2 lasguns. Or in the case cited, order Bring it Down/Take Aim and then Fix Bayonets to Fight with re-rolls.

I use orders correctly but I can't believe I never thought of using rerolls in combat ... my power sword Catachan SGTs have been missing out!

 Captain Roderick wrote:

1. Might it not also cause everyone taking every possible upgrade?
2. The tournament setup is pretty nuts. I'd be taking a couple of battalions at your level and you're stuck with a patrol! Makes it hard to be guard.
3. Remember your can always use the doctrines whatever your appearance, it's the warlord traits and relics you can't use if you're not "official" <regiment> (I think). Catachan would probably do pretty well, especially if you got heavy flamers on vehicles but yeah magnetise if you can

a) not when players are reasonable and strict WYSIWYG is enforced. Who has army modelled with all the upgrades modelled in? Makes you screwed when you play points then! People complain about "people just take all maxed out upgrades!" but does that happen IN PRACTICE?
3) that's the sort of regiment hopping I don't like. It's just gaming for effect. And btw traits and relics are same as doctrine. You use doctrine, you have access to the rest regardless of models and paint job. But still I play for models and fluff. Using cadians as catachan just for sake of gaming effect is no go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmm next scenario is going to be less weird than before. So 60PL. Deployment on one quarter with 12" diameter circle in the middle to separate so deploying futher back allows avoiding first turn charges unless we are talking super fast units or deep strikers. Yey! Weird rules are on start of your turn you roll 3 dice and for each 6 you get to cause mortal wounds(bleargh) a bit to enemy and on turn 3 objective is placed on center of random quarter. Game ends randomly from turn 5 onward and wipeout still doesn't end it(so you could lose by getting objective camper wiped out by meteorites).

So good thing is I can do gunline parts without worrying too much about having enemy right in my face before getting to shoot. BAD thing is I might need to move to enemy deployment zone on worst case scenario! I might find use for those chimera's again...

Tentative plan is pask+russ+company commander+3-4 infantry squad, that heavy flamer chimera+SWS and manticore or so. Issue is taking objective from distance. Maybe fit vendetta instead of russ though BS4+ and moving penalty for lascannons makes that less awesome than I thought.

It's a shame that you can't use centaur carriers, they might come in real handy on that mission to scoot onto a remote objective. Or at least I'm assuming you can't get hold of a forgeworld vehicle and paint it in time, or a 1/35 bren carrier model.

What's your detachment limits?

 Captain Roderick wrote:
It's a shame that you can't use centaur carriers, they might come in real handy on that mission to scoot onto a remote objective. Or at least I'm assuming you can't get hold of a forgeworld vehicle and paint it in time, or a 1/35 bren carrier model.

What's your detachment limits?

Yeah no money and no interest buying more 40k models now. Future purchaces are 30k blood angels.

Detachment is one battallion. That's it.

tneva82 wrote:

 Captain Roderick wrote:
It's a shame that you can't use centaur carriers, they might come in real handy on that mission to scoot onto a remote objective. Or at least I'm assuming you can't get hold of a forgeworld vehicle and paint it in time, or a 1/35 bren carrier model.

What's your detachment limits?

Yeah no money and no interest buying more 40k models now. Future purchaces are 30k blood angels.

Detachment is one battallion. That's it.

Sounds like you're on track then, I look forward to hearing your next battle report.
Can you use valkyrie instead of vendetta? It's less scary and can carry a full squad for objective grabbing.

Requizen wrote:
Thoughts on Knight vs Baneblande Variant alongside Guard? Prices seem similar, Tanks with more shooting but Knight with better BS and better melee. Hard to tell which is more useful in the long run.

Baneblades drastically outperform Knights currently; knights are very very overpriced.

 Colonel Cross wrote:
I use orders correctly but I can't believe I never thought of using rerolls in combat ... my power sword Catachan SGTs have been missing out!

Well, just be aware the only way to do that is with the Laurels of Command by issuing both Take Aim / Bring It Down and then Fix Bayonets to the same unit. All the order buffs expire at the end of the shooting phase, so they won't affect fighting.

I have a 2000 point ITC tourney coming up at my store in late Jan. People at my store can be a little testy about LoW (though not FW oddly), but I have been given the green light that this is to be a competitive event...and I am toying with running a 3 Baneblade list based off the excellent advice I have received from people on the forum. Here is my rough outline:


The basic idea here is to have the infantry screen my Russes, combining their squads if necessary and supporting with CC and Astropath (aka bootleg commissar). This little ball moves slowly up the field so Conquerors can get the sweet, sweet re-rolls to their turret shots. Harker, the techpriest, the Primaris and the Trojan support the Baneblades to taste. I am pretty confident I want a Baneblade and a Shadowsword, and a Banehammer seems good in some situations, but I also don't have to points to take HWS to hide in it...and the main gun may be too situational. There is a guy who brings Stormraven(s) ...and a gal with three Helldrakes...so I could see it working on those effectively. But I am just not sure.

Any other thoughts or pointers? I am open to whatever. The Baneblades are not assembled yet...and I only own two kits. I also own plenty of artillery (Thudd guns, Earthshakers, Wyvern, Griffon, etc) and some veterans, HWS, and chimeras, but I was wanting to try this out as I absolutely love the Baneblade kit and am kinda giddy with the prospect of building and painting three.

EDIT: Also it occurs to me that Cadian could work for the Battalion as well...especially if I am going to be seeing a lot of Chaos. But then I can't take Harker (which frees up 50 pts)...and the Trojan is also kinda useless (unless I also take the Baneblades as Cadian to open up Overlapping Fields of Fire). Thoughts?

I'd consider seeing if you an finagle another detachment out of it.

You're 30 points away from splitting the elites off into another Vanguard detachment and earning +1 CP, for example.

Also, not sure you need the Conquerors, I'd probably drop one and replace the Banehammer with a Baneblade (unless you plan to use it as a transport) and then use the extra maybe to fill out another detachment, upgrading the existing Conqueror to a different type of Russ to use as a tank commander for the Vanguard detachment, for example.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I'd consider seeing if you an finagle another detachment out of it.

You're 30 points away from splitting the elites off into another Vanguard detachment and earning +1 CP, for example.

Also, not sure you need the Conquerors, I'd probably drop one and replace the Banehammer with a Baneblade (unless you plan to use it as a transport) and then use the extra maybe to fill out another detachment, upgrading the existing Conqueror to a different type of Russ to use as a tank commander for the Vanguard detachment, for example.

I was considering maybe running Punishers instead as anti-horde insurance anyway...so a TC Punisher would be good in that role. I can definitely see breaking out the elites into another detachment. Hmmm. Seems I have some thinking to do.

EDIT: OR, is it worth it to try to go Brigade...dropping one Conqueror and making the other a Punisher, running two Mortar HWS, and adding three separate Scout Sentinels? Gotta look at my math but I may be able to finagle it.

DOUBLE EDIT: Forgot I need 6 troops for that...sooooo no. Not gonna work. Oh well

Just for clarity, can I use the same physic power twice in one turn in matched play if it is two different psychers. (mostly worried about being able to cast psychic barrier twice in one go)

I used to play orks back in the day and was wondering if I could use two weird boys to teleport two mobz in the first turn.