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i dont run a pure korne army, only 1 battalion is korne, the others two are Nurgle,rigth now you must choose between 3 battalions do maximize ds or play less letters and run a Ts supreme command, both lists works fine.

What are people’s thoughts on a Nurgle Brigade?

I’m leery of the elites and heavy supports, but troops, HQs, and fast attacks are all solid.

450 minimum of garbage (heavy support), fast attack beside drones, or are weak (furies) or costly (plague toads), you can get cp's playing the double battalion , more point wise.

 blackmage wrote:
450 minimum of garbage (heavy support), fast attack beside drones, or are weak (furies) or costly (plague toads), you can get cp's playing the double battalion , more point wise.

Giant Chaos Spawn is very nurgley, and while it is 450 points I wouldn't say it was complete garbage.

Was obviously way way better when they were 75 points each, but then they were also hugely underpriced.

Why do you say "fast attack beside drones", as if drones weren't the obvious and best fast attack choice in the codex anyway? Almost like you're looking for reasons to complain. Just use drones.

Plaguebearers
Nurglings
3x Beasts of Nurgle (elites are probably nurgles weakest point, but luckily they're pretty cheap and units of 1)
Plague Drones
Giant Chaos Spawn

Mix in HQ's to taste, depending on if you want the herald buffs or just Prince Power.

That's a lot of disgustingly resilient to get through, and funnily enough the Giant Spawn is still only power level 5 so you could deepstrike them all for 3CP, or even summon them pretty easily.

Sounds like a fun list, and I don't think you'll get steamrollered at all (depending on how many troops and drones you take, and whether you also have a second detachment of something).

 blackmage wrote:
i dont run a pure korne army, only 1 battalion is korne, the others two are Nurgle,rigth now you must choose between 3 battalions do maximize ds or play less letters and run a Ts supreme command, both lists works fine.

Yeah these both seem like good options. Triple letters and mass pb seems very hard to deal with for many factions.

Also a no shooting phase pure daemon army that actually threatens other competitive lists is just COOL.

 JNAProductions wrote:
What are people’s thoughts on a Nurgle Brigade?

I’m leery of the elites and heavy supports, but troops, HQs, and fast attacks are all solid.

Are you specifically looking for a Nurgle Daemon Brigade? If you don't need it to unlock stratagems for you, simply running a Nurgle Brigade and using CSM/Death Guard units to fill out some of those lacking slots would be much more effective. Heavy Support options for Chaos Daemons are atrocious, but Plagueburst Crawlers would fit and are objectively great units.

Hi all. Can I get some tips on Tzeentch Daemons? I'm interested in playing pure Tzeentch Daemons, but idk how competitive they are or even how many points I should set aside for summons. A good list will also help a ton.

I’ve think you need to ally in something other that just Tzeentch Daemon.
I play Tzeentch and mainly Tzeentch but it was when I added 3x3 Obliterators from CSM I started to win games.

When I start making a list I add.

2x changecaster with flickering flames and gaze of fate.

2x 30 pink horror
2x 10 brimstone horror

This is my to go and I love it. All those attack’s 18” range and buffed up +1 too wound. I did play with a DP with warlordtrait “daemonspark” so reroll 1 to hit and to wound is awesome.

This is a good start and then add what you like but I do think you need allies from Csm or other gods.

Will write more later when I get home.

Allying in Thousand Sons would be very beneficial. The Thousand Sons Daemon Prince of Tzeentch is just outright superior to the Daemon Prince of Chaos...for no additional cost or reason. So those are an invaluable addition, Ahriman is also extremely common in competitive Chaos builds for being able to cast 3 powers with a +1 to each of them going off. Tzaangors can provide some valuable close combat punch, and are more efficient in their use of command points than Bloodletters, for comparison.

Sokhar wrote:
Allying in Thousand Sons would be very beneficial. The Thousand Sons Daemon Prince of Tzeentch is just outright superior to the Daemon Prince of Chaos...for no additional cost or reason. So those are an invaluable addition, Ahriman is also extremely common in competitive Chaos builds for being able to cast 3 powers with a +1 to each of them going off. Tzaangors can provide some valuable close combat punch, and are more efficient in their use of command points than Bloodletters, for comparison.

A 1k sons/tzeentch list can be highly effective, the only issue I have is they're kinda squishy by comparison. I like to have a solid "anvil" unit, generally nurgle, somewhere. But I do agree, Tzangors are kinda like Bloodletters but more CP effecient (Letters I believe do more damage overall, but require DS so they don't get plinked early), and fit into the theme.

I would probably do a 1k sons Battalion, Ahriman, 2 DP's with wings, 2 units of 10 cultists, and 30 Tzangors in a mono-tzeentch style list.

letters erase anything they touch that is out of doubt, then yes Tz attack twice for just 2cp they can have a save 4++ with no need to spend 2cp can get -1 to be hit, but they have no str5-6 and more important they dont have ap -3 and chance to deliver 2 damage apiece, i still prefer letters but of course if we talk about TS detachment they fill a close blodletters role.

Agreed on all counts, Zid. Nurgle definitely holds ground far more effectively than Tzeentch, particularly since the inexcusably dumb nerf to Warp Surge that hurt Pink Horrors. If the previous poster is willing to move off the all-Tzeentch approach for competitive purposes, some Plaguebearers and a Poxbringer would not be remiss. Sticking with the all Tzeentch theme though, your suggested Battalion is my starting place for Thousand Sons allies. I am starting to contemplate a second Tzaangor blob in place of one of the Cultist squads, points permitting. Cycle of Slaughter is just so damn good as a 2 cost stratagem rather than the usual three, and you can keep a 30-man unit in deep strike reserve for only a single CP (unlike Bloodletters two), and you can actually buff the durability of Tzaangors with ease (again, unlike Bloodletters).

I don't have enough Tzaangors (or will to build 30 more of them just yet) to test it out, but I think having one unit start on the table to teleport with Dark Matter Crystal turn 1, and then a second in Webway Infiltration to hold off until the first unit gets chewed up, would probably work really well. They get slingshot forward/deep struck, get buffed by Glamour of Tzeentch/Weaver of Fates, and then Cycle of Slaughter as much as possible until they are killed. Then drop in a second unit and do it again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 blackmage wrote:
letters erase anything they touch that is out of doubt, then yes Tz attack twice for just 2cp they can have a save 4++ with no need to spend 2cp can get -1 to be hit, but they have no str5-6 and more important they dont have ap -3 and chance to deliver 2 damage apiece, i still prefer letters but of course if we talk about TS detachment they fill a close blodletters role.

Definitely true. Bloodletters hit way harder by virtue of their negative AP, and extra damage for taking down big targets. But so much easier to buff. They start out more durable in general, and can easily swell to almost Nurgle-like durability. Bloodletters have the advantage on charge distance and AP, but it's easier to use the swing-again stratagem on the Tzaangors, which in some cases is more useful than the high AP. And they don't blow over as easily as Bloodletters once they're on the table. Plus it's way easier to get them hitting on 2's re-rolling 1's, so unless you're tackling knights/heavy vehicles with them, I imagine the damage output is at least in the same ballpark.

ap-1 and ap-3 is huge difference, unless you play against anything with armor save 5+ or worse or you meet tons of inv saves, if you meet custodes, marines, veichles and so on, you ll experiment that Tzaangors ap-1 limit them, btw they are an awesome unit.

Why are Flesh Hounds considered to be so bad currently? They have a 10" move, have 3 S5 AP-1 attacks each on the charge, 2 wounds, and can Deny the Witch as though they were psykers (which I think is what might make them a hidden gem). The only downside is that they are 20 points each, but is that really too much? Maybe I'm just being wishful in my thinking because I have a bunch of them sitting on my shelf from 7th edition (where they were awesome in that Khorne Daemonkin formation).

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Why are Flesh Hounds considered to be so bad currently? They have a 10" move, have 3 S5 AP-1 attacks each on the charge, 2 wounds, and can Deny the Witch as though they were psykers (which I think is what might make them a hidden gem). The only downside is that they are 20 points each, but is that really too much? Maybe I'm just being wishful in my thinking because I have a bunch of them sitting on my shelf from 7th edition (where they were awesome in that Khorne Daemonkin formation).

because bloodletters hit harder and can be used in batallions so you get way more cp

The only REAL use for hounds is a really cheap source of deny the witch spam. So if you know for a fact you're facing a psyker list, bring an Outrider detachment of 3 squads of 5 and laugh in the face of Ahriman as you deny, deny, and deny some more.

 vaklor4 wrote:
The only REAL use for hounds is a really cheap source of deny the witch spam. So if you know for a fact you're facing a psyker list, bring an Outrider detachment of 3 squads of 5 and laugh in the face of Ahriman as you deny, deny, and deny some more.

And they're 15 points each.

Still pretty easy to kill them though.

Low PL so easy to summon or deep strike.

People seem too under resting the Pink horrors. A full unit shoots 90 shots. Buff them up with a cheap changecaster for S4. If a Tzeentch DP is there reroll 1s. That’s 52 hits.

If you cast flickering flames on them they will do 17 wounds on a knight before save.

Warp surge still works the same for every unit except a Lord of change with robe. Gw did not intended for it to have a 2++ save so they change it a little but only so that combo did not work.

Emperial form gives Tzeentch +1 to the roll and not a +1 to our invul so warp surge a pink horror unit and it will save on a 4++ and have +1 to the roll making all 3s a save as well.

pink horrors are great no doubt
hounds are decent but no comparable with letters, they have a place in mono korne armies only

It didnt only nerf the impossible robes LoC. Pinks no longer get puffed by it and FW greater daemons are stuck at a 4++ now.

Tazberry wrote:
People seem too under resting the Pink horrors. A full unit shoots 90 shots. Buff them up with a cheap changecaster for S4. If a Tzeentch DP is there reroll 1s. That’s 52 hits.

If you cast flickering flames on them they will do 17 wounds on a knight before save.

Warp surge still works the same for every unit except a Lord of change with robe. Gw did not intended for it to have a 2++ save so they change it a little but only so that combo did not work.

Emperial form gives Tzeentch +1 to the roll and not a +1 to our invul so warp surge a pink horror unit and it will save on a 4++ and have +1 to the roll making all 3s a save as well.

Horrors don't have ephemeral form, they have ephemeral demon which is a different rule. They cap out at 4++

yes right they are capped to 4++ but still good models 90 buffed shots aren't a thing to underestimate.

Me and my club do not play with FW so I did not know that. But they are so overpriced and need a change so we can play with them.

And as for the pinks.... GW did feth up the writing once more. I did assume pinks had emperial form and blue and brims had different rule.. my bad so sorry and now I do need a distraction from my pinks.. back to list writing I guess.

Best distraction for pinks? More pinks. 60 pinks with extra points for splitting may not be the most "economic " option but good luck to your opponent actually getting rid of them. Drop them on a objective in the center of the field and hold it for a very long time.

Though myself i prefer a tzaangor dmc bomb, a deamon prince hedgehog assault, followed by a bloodletters and pink horror bomb. Very nasty one-two combo, and dont forget tzaangors rerolls vs charecters like knights or assassins or whatever. Makes them different enough to bloodletters to let them each have a space in my army.

I've always had problems with large units of pinks dying to morale. Big bloodletter blobs can at least pile in on multiple units and take a model hostage to prevent them from getting shot next turn. With 30-man pink blobs I am always torn on whether or not I should spend the 2CP to auto pass. To be fair, I haven't played a triple battalion list yet so maybe having tons of CP might be the answer. Last time I played 60 pinks against DE they pretty much all melted away from morale by T2.

Do you guys have any tips on how to keep pinks alive?

Splitting is only worth it for 50 points or 10 blue but more than that I find it a waste of points.

In one game I had 2 lord of change and 60 pinks. The 2 LoC was getting focused down so all my pinks survived till my T2.
My pinks split its fire and crippled the enemy so hard he could not make a comeback or pass past the middle of the table. The pink horrors take up so much board I would like to try 3x30 or even 4x30 and a lot of Tsons smiters. Take up so much space so the enemy have to go through all the pink while taking all smites and horror shots turn after turn. Imagine shining spears who wants to jump over and kill stuff in the back, can only charge at the frontline.

Anyone tried 90-120 or more pink horrors?

Tazberry wrote:
Splitting is only worth it for 50 points or 10 blue but more than that I find it a waste of points.

In one game I had 2 lord of change and 60 pinks. The 2 LoC was getting focused down so all my pinks survived till my T2.
My pinks split its fire and crippled the enemy so hard he could not make a comeback or pass past the middle of the table. The pink horrors take up so much board I would like to try 3x30 or even 4x30 and a lot of Tsons smiters. Take up so much space so the enemy have to go through all the pink while taking all smites and horror shots turn after turn. Imagine shining spears who wants to jump over and kill stuff in the back, can only charge at the frontline.

Anyone tried 90-120 or more pink horrors?

I have not, but I HAVE tried 90 Letters, and to basically the same effect. Dropping in 90 bloodletters from deepstrike basically meant I charged his entire army, and bogged the entire force down while the rest of my army ran up freely.

90 letters seems like overkill in a very good way. Sadly I only got 30 letters. In my own experience a full unit of letters will kill what they charge. How do you deep strike them? 2 units T2 and then T3 the last unit? I find it hard to deep strike in good position.

What's people's opinion on Karanak and Skulltaker? Are they OK choices or trash?

Tazberry wrote:
90 letters seems like overkill in a very good way. Sadly I only got 30 letters. In my own experience a full unit of letters will kill what they charge. How do you deep strike them? 2 units T2 and then T3 the last unit? I find it hard to deep strike in good position.

you dont need to DS 90 letters 2nd turn, they hit like trucks but they are glasscannons, so you drop 30 2nd turn clean up 1-2 screening units then drop the rest 3rd turn, depend what kind of list ur facing, if you face a gunline with few screens you can drop 90 letters and engulf the whole enemy army in deadly melee.