Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Wow, that Freeboota nerf came out of nowhere. What the heck?
At the very least the could have used something that stacks with Badrukk...

Well, at least they clarified that AP buffs don't affect units shooting from transports.

The discussion some May have had about whether AP is spilled over to embarked units from a speed waaagh is over with this update.

8" re-rollable charge is a 66% chance to get in; do I have that right?

Soooo freebooters is essentially the old bad moons trait but worse right?

I guess this dosent really affect speedmob AOR lists that much. But regular freebootas won't like that much.

Guess GW really wants us to run more infantry. Shame they didn't give the free wargear treatment to nobz units though. It'd be fun to just give them a host of gear. Not super powerful IMO as meganobz get the standard gear of klaw and shoota with a 2+ on top. But it'd be fun to have some tooled up squishy lads running around causing havoc.

I'm guessing that the Freeboota nerf was either something that got drafted ages ago and was included by mistake, or it's down to the FAQs being 6 months behind and this is the late response to Freeboota Jet spam.

Either way, hopefully it gets amended soon enough.

They won’t amend it. They are full on working on 10th edition.

Regarding the 8in charge that really only works if your opponent only places thier units within 1in of ruins I thought. If your opponent places then back 1.5-2in you still need 9in.

Is this enough now to include weirdboy in goff lists?

Oh no. the FAQ also mentions that if you count as stationary and advance (like our speed mob) you still fail your action. So you cant advance speed mob bikers anymore and do Good Bits.

So you would have to drive there instead and keep the 6++ while doing actions.

So another nerf for speed mobs.

So, GW is back to the usual nerfing everything ork into the ground until nothing but boyz are playable?

Damn, they destroyed my army. Freebooterz were good not only for the trait but also for the statagem and the relic. Now that they have a bad trait they don't worth it, Bad Moons have a slightly better trait and a useful stratagem but nothing relevant. Blood Axes can be a solid alternative for vehicles based lists but I'm not a fan of their tricks and I don't like using supplements. I'm not a fan of deathskulls builds as well. Guess I have to turn to goffs at this point, probably getting Ghaz to give some purpose to vehicles at least.

 Jidmah wrote:
So, GW is back to the usual nerfing everything ork into the ground until nothing but boyz are playable?

Boyz are still a very sub-par unit. They're not too horrible as a min troop tax now, so, that's a huge win, I guess.

Anyway, with free mek jobs, I really want to try burnas. Just 2 pts over shootaboyz but can actually shoot and are better than choppaboyz vs armor of contempt in mellee. Also, have an optional ap2 which is ok for a couple more wounds going through.

Fun fact: a 150pt squad can deal up to 168 wounds half of which are MW. You just need to be goff and roll 168 6-s and that's all.

I'll try running some next game and see how it goes. Not expecting much, but it's nice to get eager for something 40k again once in a while!

As for freebootas, my optimistic guess is that they're preparing for 10th where we might not need that +1 to hit. My realistic guess is that they nerf the list that's allready been nerfed 5 times cause it happened to place high a bunch of times when it was still at it's prime.

In the interests of making a silk purse from a sows ear, does the freeboota trait still have any legs in a KMB spam army?

If you bring all the guns that do big damage but explode on a 1, then I imagine rerolling all ones once something dies could be a pretty good option.

Not sure of the points but off the top of my head you could have 9 dreads with 4, 3 units of lootas with 3 meks each, and shokkjump dragstas, for a whole host of not-so-suicidal-any-more shooting?

 some bloke wrote:
In the interests of making a silk purse from a sows ear, does the freeboota trait still have any legs in a KMB spam army?

If you bring all the guns that do big damage but explode on a 1, then I imagine rerolling all ones once something dies could be a pretty good option.

Not sure of the points but off the top of my head you could have 9 dreads with 4, 3 units of lootas with 3 meks each, and shokkjump dragstas, for a whole host of not-so-suicidal-any-more shooting?

It still relies on killing units though. I would imagine the Deffskulls rerolls would be better in a KMB spam list.

I might be wrong though, it all depends on how easily you get that initial kill.

Not sure freebootas are even an option right now. Not only the traits are hard to get vs a number of armies, it's also very sub-par.

If you want stooting in a small game go deffsculls. Obsec for your infantry is nice, opens up effective mini meks and solo vehicles are getting better. Extra save vs mortals that are pretty common arm, is also neat. Nice clan overall.

Still don't think bad moons are worth it. Maybe if you have a certain plan going on - like when you NEED that extra 6" for your heavies and dakka weapons. I just don't see it being worth it.

Overall, I think that if you're running shooty buggies like skrapjets, squigbuggies (once again an option if taken solo cause of free mek jobs), koptas and things like that, you're better off as Goffs. Especially in larger games where you run makari+ghaz fnp. Jets also deal almost half of their damage in mellee, so, why not.

 Afrodactyl wrote:


I might be wrong though, it all depends on how easily you get that initial kill.

Sometimes it is quite easy, sometimes it's extremely hard. On average it's not so easy but if you had 1500 points of stuff that could benefit from the trait, on average the army's shooting was going to be significantly improved. Now it's a minor buff, and also a tedious one.

Beardedragon wrote:
Oh no. the FAQ also mentions that if you count as stationary and advance (like our speed mob) you still fail your action. So you cant advance speed mob bikers anymore and do Good Bits.

So you would have to drive there instead and keep the 6++ while doing actions.

So another nerf for speed mobs.

No you are wrong. Fortunately. This is the old jacket. Discussed half year ago. The point is speedmob is “advance and no penalties”. This FAQ aims to “advance and count as remain stationary”. So this is something totaly different.

And nerf to Freebootas hits the speedmob. Despite the fact a lot of people play speedmob as Blood Axe, almost non of such lists used to be in top. All top lists was freebootas.

But doesnt matter. I don ´t understand why they do such changes in FAQ. such think should be in Dataslate. This is a mess.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I ´m interested what will appear in the official app. That will be another mess.

Brw the new rule about the terrain seems to be the source of really big issues:

Also if youre in a terrain feature on the side without a wall (so in the base of the feature) you can charge, fight since your within 2" engagement range as there is a peice of terrain between the two units, pile in 0.2" so there is no terrain between the two units and a distance of 1-1.7" between the two units, your opponent then cant fight back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have a feeling that last Dataslate and Nephilin is a work of group of pretty fine game designers doing their job pretty well. So - keep up to the standard - GW hired a bunch of monkeys from the ZOO to make a FAQ.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another issues:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tau40K/comments/vrjoqj/possible_weird_situation_where_a_successful/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/vrg3hg/does_this_mean_you_can_deepstrike_and_charge_into/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

 Tomsug wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Oh no. the FAQ also mentions that if you count as stationary and advance (like our speed mob) you still fail your action. So you cant advance speed mob bikers anymore and do Good Bits.

So you would have to drive there instead and keep the 6++ while doing actions.

So another nerf for speed mobs.

No you are wrong. Fortunately. This is the old jacket. Discussed half year ago. The point is speedmob is “advance and no penalties”. This FAQ aims to “advance and count as remain stationary”. So this is something totaly different.

And nerf to Freebootas hits the speedmob. Despite the fact a lot of people play speedmob as Blood Axe, almost non of such lists used to be in top. All top lists was freebootas.

But doesnt matter. I don ´t understand why they do such changes in FAQ. such think should be in Dataslate. This is a mess.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I ´m interested what will appear in the official app. That will be another mess.

Brw the new rule about the terrain seems to be the source of really big issues:

Also if youre in a terrain feature on the side without a wall (so in the base of the feature) you can charge, fight since your within 2" engagement range as there is a peice of terrain between the two units, pile in 0.2" so there is no terrain between the two units and a distance of 1-1.7" between the two units, your opponent then cant fight back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have a feeling that last Dataslate and Nephilin is a work of group of pretty fine game designers doing their job pretty well. So - keep up to the standard - GW hired a bunch of monkeys from the ZOO to make a FAQ.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another issues:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tau40K/comments/vrjoqj/possible_weird_situation_where_a_successful/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/vrg3hg/does_this_mean_you_can_deepstrike_and_charge_into/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

I see.. well thats good to know. i recalled that we remained stationary up to the end of the shooting phase, not that it just counts as a normal move.

All good then

I don't see an advantage over just running deff skulls. The chances of rolling multiple ones is low already, and you get another chance of saving those mortals with lucky blue paint.

KMBs in loota mobs are a trap choice anyways.

I dunno, if +1 to hit and wound (effectively) and all of the character support Orks really get isn't enough to make you run Goffs, nothing will.

It's pretty clear Orks is Codex: Goffs. Heck, even the shooty vehicle build has benefits with Goffs now because of Great Waaaagh! and Makari giving FNPs to vehicles.

Orks is a mono clan book with the tools they've given us.

tulun wrote:
I dunno, if +1 to hit and wound (effectively) and all of the character support Orks really get isn't enough to make you run Goffs, nothing will.

It's pretty clear Orks is Codex: Goffs. Heck, even the shooty vehicle build has benefits with Goffs now because of Great Waaaagh! and Makari giving FNPs to vehicles.

Orks is a mono clan book with the tools they've given us.

Yeah, its kinda sad how far behind all the other klanz are when it comes to being able to provide meaningful offense. Evil Sunz got hit hard with their nerf to mobility trait and dakka weapon changes make them pretty bad barring using their strat. Bad Moonz got worse in a post AoC world and even before that it was outdone by Freebootas and their strat/relic were pretty meh at best. Deffskullz (understandably) got their all around utility toned down a bit but their strat and relic aren't great. Snakebitez trait actually made them even more niche and situational than their old 6+ FNP trait did. Freebootas were okay up until the latest FAQ.

It's disheartening that somehow our last codex was much more klan diverse when it came to viable mono-klan builds.

 koooaei wrote:



Fun fact: a 150pt squad can deal up to 168 wounds half of which are MW. You just need to be goff and roll 168 6-s and that's all.

I'll try running some next game and see how it goes. Not expecting much, but it's nice to get eager for something 40k again once in a while!

Could you explain this one in detail mate? Sounds busted but i did not follow?

sounds like literal perfect dice, akin to how the SSAG could deal over 100 wounds technically. Was it ever going to happen? Hell no.

Goffs won a lot this season due to the cp changes making named characters better value. However ghaz is still expensive… he’s great but it’s a big chunk…

I keep playing with lists and Free kustom jobs are making some interesting choices on new units being viable. I use to like double killrigs but after I take a Killrig w shokka hull… that cheaper battlewagon w forktress is nice… for the cost… a runtsucka shokk atk gun isn’t horribly overpriced anymore.. As stated zagstrukk is great w new Waagh and a weirdboy w dajump is a lot more viable w 8in charges into ruins…(I’m not exactly sure what single core unit is strong enough in melee to do this…. Meganobs?). A single squigbuggy is decent as is a single Snazzwagon. The free kustom jobs opens up more variety in goff lists..

But ya it’s goff or bloodaxe and that’s about it… U can play around w evilsun speedwagh for the strat or deffskulls But neither of those are optimal.

 koooaei wrote:
Anyway, with free mek jobs, I really want to try burnas. Just 2 pts over shootaboyz but can actually shoot and are better than choppaboyz vs armor of contempt in mellee. Also, have an optional ap2 which is ok for a couple more wounds going through.

Fun fact: a 150pt squad can deal up to 168 wounds half of which are MW. You just need to be goff and roll 168 6-s and that's all.

I'll try running some next game and see how it goes. Not expecting much, but it's nice to get eager for something 40k again once in a while!

I've had some games with just running units of 10 burnas up the field and they work a lot better than expected. Be careful with the zapkrumpas though, you either need to hide them or have an inconspicuous unit of gretchin nearby for an emergency grot shield.

In general the extra mortal wounds are nice, but not that reliable - if you rely on them and roll no sixes, your unit tends to be dead.

 Jidmah wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Anyway, with free mek jobs, I really want to try burnas. Just 2 pts over shootaboyz but can actually shoot and are better than choppaboyz vs armor of contempt in mellee. Also, have an optional ap2 which is ok for a couple more wounds going through.

Fun fact: a 150pt squad can deal up to 168 wounds half of which are MW. You just need to be goff and roll 168 6-s and that's all.

I'll try running some next game and see how it goes. Not expecting much, but it's nice to get eager for something 40k again once in a while!

I've had some games with just running units of 10 burnas up the field and they work a lot better than expected. Be careful with the zapkrumpas though, you either need to hide them or have an inconspicuous unit of gretchin nearby for an emergency grot shield.

In general the extra mortal wounds are nice, but not that reliable - if you rely on them and roll no sixes, your unit tends to be dead.

I'm guessing with zapkrumpas that you just take them as regular Goffs in your list, correct? I was wondering if there was ever a point of upgrading burna boyz to being a pyromaniacs subkultur since I think someone did the math and the extra hits you get from it aren't worth swapping out your kultur if I remember correctly.

Regular bloodaxes, but yes.

Essentially burna boyz are my shoota boyz and beast snaggas are my choppa boyz.
Burna boyz often die without shooting once, so there is no real gain from using pyromaniacs in that regard - on the flip side making them specialist means I can no longer use them for Got 'em trapped or gloryboyz, and they don't benefit from my Waaagh! banner or warboss anymore.

Taktical awareness also is hilarious on them - if they are performing an action and someone lines up a charge, you can pop the stratagem (hopefully discounted) and then fire overwatch at them without your action failing.

If I use my specialist mob at all, it's usually either 'orrible gits or mad boyz squighog riders (only if not running a beastboss).

I dunno. My specialist mob is still being used on Trukkboyz who now get +1S on the charge from WAAAGH which makes them almost as good as Goff boyz before.

Playing around with my for fun list I brought in a weirdboy for giggles. He had Fist and Warpath. I cast warpath on the unit of trukkboyz and had them up to 5 attacks each during a WAAAGH turn, So i had 45 S5 attacks and 7 attacks at S6 on my double choppa nob. Against IG it was one thing, but even against AoC Marines it averages almost 4 dead Marines a turn...without AoC it was almost 6...

I had been toying with the idea of Da Jumping 30 Orrible gitz into the enemies lines turn 1 and attempting a bum rush charge just for giggles but meh.

SemperMortis wrote:
I dunno. My specialist mob is still being used on Trukkboyz who now get +1S on the charge from WAAAGH which makes them almost as good as Goff boyz before.

Playing around with my for fun list I brought in a weirdboy for giggles. He had Fist and Warpath. I cast warpath on the unit of trukkboyz and had them up to 5 attacks each during a WAAAGH turn, So i had 45 S5 attacks and 7 attacks at S6 on my double choppa nob. Against IG it was one thing, but even against AoC Marines it averages almost 4 dead Marines a turn...without AoC it was almost 6...

I had been toying with the idea of Da Jumping 30 Orrible gitz into the enemies lines turn 1 and attempting a bum rush charge just for giggles but meh.

You can't da jump orrible gitz because its <clan> core locked. Runtherders (which are now solidly in my list to allow for t1 Get the good bitz) are also clan locked.

SemperMortis wrote:
I dunno. My specialist mob is still being used on Trukkboyz who now get +1S on the charge from WAAAGH which makes them almost as good as Goff boyz before.

Playing around with my for fun list I brought in a weirdboy for giggles. He had Fist and Warpath. I cast warpath on the unit of trukkboyz and had them up to 5 attacks each during a WAAAGH turn, So i had 45 S5 attacks and 7 attacks at S6 on my double choppa nob. Against IG it was one thing, but even against AoC Marines it averages almost 4 dead Marines a turn...without AoC it was almost 6...

I had been toying with the idea of Da Jumping 30 Orrible gitz into the enemies lines turn 1 and attempting a bum rush charge just for giggles but meh.

Oh, in a speed waaagh, I absolutely bring trukk boyz. They just don't have a place in my bloodaxe horde. In that army I prefer to pay 10 points to upgrade them to beastsnaggas rather than paying 70 to get a trukk.

I tried the bum rush 'orrible gitz strategy twice now (mind you, with runtherd, not weird boy), but I don't think it's worth the 120 points despite being very satisfying to pull off.

Egh I still don’t want to waste points on a runtherder nor provide the free assasinate points…
With the kustom job changes I think dropping a Killrig for a forktress battlewagon is better. And I can have the grots on the battlewagon for first turn protection and then disembark and move for a better goodbits movement.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/805707.page#11387324

gungo wrote:
Egh I still don’t want to waste points on a runtherder nor provide the free assasinate points…
With the kustom job changes I think dropping a Killrig for a forktress battlewagon is better. And I can have the grots on the battlewagon for first turn protection and then disembark and move for a better goodbits movement.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/805707.page#11387324

6 out of the 9 missions have objectives 12" away from your deployment zone. 2 of these have no objectives within 12". 3" boost from a vehicle and the grots 5" isn't enough to get your Gretchen doing max get the good bits T1. If you're serious about getting the max vp early you need the herders. They do give up assassinate to be sure but only if they get caught .