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Source article

Pakistan says U.S. drones in its air space will be shot down
By NBC News, msnbc.com staff and news service reports
ISLAMABAD -- Pakistan will shoot down any U.S. drone that intrudes its air space per new directives, a senior Pakistani official told NBC News on Saturday.

According to the new Pakistani defense policy, "Any object entering into our air space, including U.S. drones, will be treated as hostile and be shot down," a senior Pakistani military official told NBC News.
The policy change comes just weeks after a deadly NATO attack on Pakistani military checkpoints accidentally killed 24 Pakistani soldiers, prompting Pakistani officials to order all U.S. personnel out of a remote airfield in Pakistan. Pakistan told the U.S. to vacate Shamsi Air Base by December 11.

A senior military official from Quetta, Pakistan, confirmed to NBC News on Saturday that the evacuation of the base, used for staging classified drone flights directed against militants, “will be completed tomorrow,” according to NBC’s Fakhar ur Rehman.
Pakistani Military Chief Gen Ashfaq Pervez Kayani had issued multiple directives since the Nov. 26 NATO attack, which included orders to shoot down U.S. drones, senior military officials confirmed to NBC News on Saturday.
It was unclear Saturday whether orders to fire upon incoming U.S. drones was part of the initial orders.

The Pakistani airbase had been used by U.S. forces, including the CIA, to stage elements of a clandestine U.S. counter-terrorism operation to attack militants linked to al-Qaida, the Taliban and Pakistan's home-grown Haqqani network, using unmanned drone aircraft armed with missiles.

President Barack Obama stepped up the drone campaign after he took office. U.S. officials say it has produced major successes in decimating the central leadership of al-Qaida and putting associated militant groups on the defensive.

Since 2004, U.S. drones have carried out more than 300 attacks inside Pakistan.

Pakistani authorities started threatening U.S. personnel with eviction from the Shamsi base in the wake of the raid last May in which U.S. commandos killed Osama bin Laden at his hide-out near Islamabad without notifying Pakistani officials in advance.

That would be a pretty bad idea for Pakistan, I think.

Fair enough, but it's just more sabre-rattling.

I'm pretty sure that the US wouldn't retaliate if Pakistan shot down one of our drones.

So... We could just build more.

Real smart, pakistan... America has started wars in the middle east for much less than this.

Its kinda funny that Pakistan thinks its got any weight it can throw around.

Even after letting one of the biggest head of terrorism live right on their doorstep.

I wonder at point point, or if it's even at all actually likely, that the US just cuts off all that monetary aid it gives Pakistan.

Aduro wrote:I wonder at point point, or if it's even at all actually likely, that the US just cuts off all that monetary aid it gives Pakistan.

You would think someone in the pentagon would see that the SEALs found the single most wanted international criminal in the world on the doorstep of one of their major military bases and put two and two together...

But apparently its more complicated than that...

International Politics always are sadly.

Just wait for one to be loaded with smallpox or some gak, then shot down, spreading it all over the place

Horst wrote:Real smart, pakistan... America has started wars in the middle east for much less than this.

Point to Pakistan.

Pakistan isn't nominally part of the Middle East, though like Turkey and Europe it often gets lumped in because of shared political issues and regional connections.

LordofHats wrote:Pakistan isn't nominally part of the Middle East, though like Turkey andEurope it often gets lumped in because of shared political issues and regional connections.

W.T.F?


Also, any time Pakistan gets snotty, start US coseying up with India and major redirection of foreign aid that way...

dogma wrote:Point to Pakistan.

It's the one on the right, labeled "Pakistan."

Horst wrote:Real smart, pakistan... America has started wars in the middle east for much less than this.

You mean America regularly starts wars with people who protest over the lobbing of drone missiles into their country for a prolonged period, after they've killed many civilians, and in the latest round, military targets? With people who assert their rights to controlling their own airspace?

Mr Hyena wrote:Its kinda funny that Pakistan thinks its got any weight it can throw around.

Even after letting one of the biggest head of terrorism live right on their doorstep.

Pakistan does have weight it can throw around. It's a nuclear capable power. One could say that confers a considerable amount of weight. After all, that's what America currently derives a huge amount of its own clout from.

DIDM wrote:Just wait for one to be loaded with smallpox or some gak, then shot down, spreading it all over the place

Lovely. So when a country withdraws your right to freely assassinate people, and kill many others as collateral within their borders, you advocate biological warfare.


This thread reassures me that hypocrisy and stupidity is just as prevalent in America as it is on my local council estate. Imagine how that fills me with joy.

dogma wrote:

Horst wrote:Real smart, pakistan... America has started wars in the middle east for much less than this.

Point to Pakistan.

Right there on the far right in South Asia...

Ketara wrote:
You mean America regularly starts wars with people who protest over the lobbing of drone missiles into their country for a prolonged period, after they've killed many civilians, and in the latest round, military targets? With people who assert their rights to controlling their own airspace?

A demotivational is not, by itself, considered an acceptable post. -Mannahnin

The trick is, Pakistan is nominally our ally... and haven't been living up to the treaty obligations that come with the money we are sending them. Then we find bin Lauden hiding next to a major military base of theirs, and now this.

Fine. They don't want to be our allies, we don't have to send them any more money or support. I'm sure India can use it.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

LordofHats wrote:Pakistan isn't nominally part of the Middle East, though like Turkey andEurope it often gets lumped in because of shared political issues and regional connections.

W.T.F?

Turkey isn't technically part of Europe, but is often talked about alongside Europe because of the interconnections between the two. Similar is true of Pakistan and the Middle East.

Ketara wrote:

Horst wrote:Real smart, pakistan... America has started wars in the middle east for much less than this.

You mean America regularly starts wars with people who protest over the lobbing of drone missiles into their country for a prolonged period, after they've killed many civilians, and in the latest round, military targets? With people who assert their rights to controlling their own airspace?

Mr Hyena wrote:Its kinda funny that Pakistan thinks its got any weight it can throw around.

Even after letting one of the biggest head of terrorism live right on their doorstep.

Pakistan does have weight it can throw around. It's a nuclear capable power. One could say that confers a considerable amount of weight. After all, that's what America currently derives a huge amount of its own clout from.

DIDM wrote:Just wait for one to be loaded with smallpox or some gak, then shot down, spreading it all over the place

Lovely. So when a country withdraws your right to freely assassinate people, and kill many others as collateral within their borders, you advocate biological warfare.


This thread reassures me that hypocrisy and stupidity is just as prevalent in America as it is on my local council estate. Imagine how that fills me with joy.

um, at what point do I advocate?

I hate the military, check my posts. it was a , I can see it happen, statement


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This just in

unusually large oil reserves found under Pakistan

It's war

LordofHats wrote:Turkey isn't technically part of Europe, but is often talked about alongside Europe because of the interconnections between the two. Similar is true of Pakistan and the Middle East.

The only people I've ever heard talk about Pakistan as part of the Middle East are the same people that can be expected to say "Lol, Muslims are brown!"

dogma wrote:The only people I've ever heard talk about Pakistan as part of the Middle East are the same people that can be expected to say "Lol, Muslims are brown!"

Probably because Pakistan is the country where not much newsworthy happens. I mean, outside the US diplomatic issues with Iran, and the Kashmir conflict, what is there to talk about? EDIT: Newsworthy being that it gets mentioned. I'm sure there's plenty to talk about. Pakistan just doesn't get as much attention as other countries.

LordofHats wrote:
Probably because Pakistan is the country where not much newsworthy happens..

American news agencies talk about Pakistan all the time, generally in terms of Afghanistan (which lots of people also think is in the Middle East).

So wait, these donkey-caves harbor a known terrorist and we're donkey-caves for keeping spy drones in their airspace? How's that supposed to work?

They shot one down...rightly so. We'dve done the same. Doesn't mean we'll stop sending drones all over the place, it just means they'll ALL be armed next time.

Funny how people talk about how much America sucks when those same douchebags live in countries that have had their entire infrastructure BUILT with money supplied by American taxpayers.

dogma wrote:

LordofHats wrote:
Probably because Pakistan is the country where not much newsworthy happens..

American news agencies talk about Pakistan all the time, generally in terms of Afghanistan (which lots of people also think is in the Middle East).

Now they do yeah. As I pointed out in my post. But pre-Afghanistan invasion? Other than the Kashmir conflict and the wars with India, Pakistan got little mention. Heck, there was another war in 2006 wasn't there? And that got overshadowed bigtime by Iraq and Afghanistan.

This could be potentially very bad for Pakistan if they mistakenly shoot down a manned craft, if they even have the competence to do it.

Regardless of how we leave Afghanistan, the best thing that will happen is Pakistan will lose what little leverage it still has over us, and fall back into cyclical military coups, losing wars that they start with India, having its proxy terror groups turn on them, and watch their 2 neighbors become quasi-superpowers while they are stuck with an essentially feudal society ruled by either the corrupt military or corrupt politicians. "Land of the pure" my ass. I despise this country.

NELS1031 wrote:This could be potentially very bad for Pakistan if they mistakenly shoot down a manned craft, if they even have the competence to do it.

Regardless of how we leave Afghanistan, the best thing that will happen is Pakistan will lose what little leverage it still has over us, and fall back into cyclical military coups, losing wars that they start with India, having its proxy terror groups turn on them, and watch their 2 neighbors become quasi-superpowers while they are stuck with an essentially feudal society ruled by either the corrupt military or corrupt politicians. "Land of the pure" my ass. I despise this country.

Not really..if they shoot down a manned US plane flying over Pakistani airspace without permission, there's no court in the world that would convict them..they would be wondering why US planes were violating Pakistani airspace. and they do probably have the competence to shoot down a UAV because no one will ever capture one of those high tech ones......, and to be honest this big loss in relations is huge for the US, our Afghanistan supply lines won't be as reliable

LordofHats wrote:
Now they do yeah. As I pointed out in my post. But pre-Afghanistan invasion? Other than the Kashmir conflict and the wars with India, Pakistan got little mention. Heck, there was another war in 2006 wasn't there? And that got overshadowed bigtime by Iraq and Afghanistan.

In 2006? Not that I know of.

Still, though, I don't see why Pakistan would be called part of the Middle East other than "All Muslims are Middle Eastern."

Huffy wrote:Not really..if they shoot down a manned US plane flying over Pakistani airspace without permission, there's no court in the world that would convict them..they would be wondering why US planes were violating Pakistani airspace.

There are significant parts of Pakistans border that are undefined, making confusion over airspace extremely easy. Its not about what court would convict them, its about Pakistan losing what goodwill and funding it still gets from the U.S., being put back onto the list of state sponsors of terrorism where they belong. Maybe we should give the pakistani Taliban and it affiliates some drones as that seems to be the only thing that gets Pakistans government and its citizens into an uproar. Not suicide bombings and terror attacks plotted on their soil or even carried out in Pakistan on its own people, not attacks on Shia/ahmadiyya/Christian and other minorities, not un-Islamic honor killings or tribal customs superceding the law of the land. None of that gets widespread protest, but if the kufir zionist crusaders of the west kill some civilians in targetted drone strikes in a portion of land that the Pakistani army is too cowardly to enter, its the crime of the century. Kid gloves need to come off.

Huffy wrote: and they do probably have the competence to shoot down a UAV because no one will ever capture one of those high tech ones......,

Just like they were competent enough to know the most wanted cash cow, I mean terrorist, in the world was right on the doorstep of a major military base and not know that 3-4 helicopters entered their airspace, one of which crashed, again right outside of a military base, had the time to conduct their mission and search the premises for intel before leaving of their own volition. Thats either the greatest raid ever, or the worst display of sovereign security enforcement ever. Possibly both.

In regards to taking down a drone, you are referring to IRI having a drone in their possesion, which is interesting, but its bound to happen just like with the spy plane being shot down over Russia during the cold war, which oddly enough was launched from pakistan without their knowledge (shocker). Mess ups happen in covert intel gathering missions. Kudos to them for protecting their sovereignty, but how many ops were flown before they took down the one they now have, is the more interesting question.

Huffy wrote:and to be honest this big loss in relations is huge for the US, our Afghanistan supply lines won't be as reliable

Plans have long been in place and implemented for different supply routes coming from the more stable -stan countries. A complete shutdown of Pakistani supply routes only leaves Pakistanis without jobs and their government without aid money, and has little effect on warfighting supplies which could never be trusted in Pakistan even when they were relatively reliable.


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dogma wrote:

LordofHats wrote:
Now they do yeah. As I pointed out in my post. But pre-Afghanistan invasion? Other than the Kashmir conflict and the wars with India, Pakistan got little mention. Heck, there was another war in 2006 wasn't there? And that got overshadowed bigtime by Iraq and Afghanistan.

In 2006? Not that I know of

He may be referring to outbreaks of violence with Balochistan separatists which has been going on for some time, including an incident in 2006 and still ongoing.