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Flash bang grenades.
Police use flash bangs to disperse Occupy Seattle crowd.
Violence, barricades, The occupy movement is actually becoming entertaining.

Dec 12, 2011 9:58 PM PST
MSNBC. COM - SEATTLE, Wash. - In Seattle, police used "flash bang" percussion grenades to disperse Occupy protesters at Port of Seattle after the crowd effectively shut down one of the terminals on Monday and then started to block off a second terminal.

An estimated 700 protesters in Seattle formed a blockade at the port after marching from the retail area of the city.  

The protest first targeted terminal 18, operated by SSA Marine, in an effort to cut into profits of Goldman Sachs, which is a stakeholder in the large cargo-terminal operator. Goldman is the fifth largest U.S. bank by assets.

Protesters formed picket lines at the entrances, and built a make-shift barricade using plywood, sections of scaffolding, oil drums and shipping pallets, reported msnbc.com's Jim Seida.

Police told KING TV that demonstrators blocked vehicular traffic and began throwing flares, bags of bricks and paint, rebar and other debris at officers at the scene. At least one officer was injured after being struck in the face by a bag of paint, KING TV reported. Eleven demonstrators were arrested. The official Occupy Seattle Twitter feed also said that police were using pepper spray.

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The goal was to keep people out of the facility, while allowing people to leave, he said. One longshoreman who did enter the port said he was sympathetic with the protesters, but couldn't afford not to work.

Occupy Seattle activist Joshua Farris said that a lot of truckers were held up in snarled traffic caused by the protesters, but that many honked and waved in support. He said he counted more than 80 police, and at least 3 arrests. Farris said the longshoremen were told they would not be paid.

Occupy Seattle activists were keeping in touch with their counterparts in other ports, and prepared to respond if the authorities cracked down at any of these protest sites.

"We were told that if another city was attacked, we would do a more aggressive occupation," said Farris. We would take more actions and be more disruptive."

Ah, the fun begins! Where's the popcorn?

I thought OWS was all ready changing tactics for the season to foreclosed properties?

While I'm not entirely unsympathetic to OWS' views...you don't get to throw gak at cops.

I'm genuinely surprised the cops didn't severly beat or kill someone. Flares are not your average missle weapon and if that happened to me I'd go ballistic.

I am impressed by the restraint demonstrated by the police.

Agreed Dogma.

NO WATER CANNON!?!?! TS COLD UP THERE....which I be in Seattle beginning of Jan...NO F'ING WATER CANNON!!!

Still though....I hurled as any flash bangs as I can. Flare + Paint = combustibile material...equates to a threat...should ave cornered them in an empty building and then unleash flash bangs.

It's better when they do gak like this though, because the more it happens, the less sympathy people have for them, and I don't support the occupy movement anyway.

I mean, I might have slight leanings towards sympathy for the Occupy Seattle crowd, and then I try to turn up at work and I dont get paid because the fethers have barricaded the entrance? Im going to go from sympathetic to seriously pissed very quickly.

I thought Stevedore's were pretty rough and tumble blokes? If I went to go to work and a few hundred smelly hippies were blocking the entrance I would drive my forktruck through the fethers or something!

Their union so they "support" OWS

Jihadin wrote:Their union so they "support" OWS

Unions gneerally don't cross picket lines. This is a bit different though. The port unions are against, and strangely the Teacher's Union and others are in support. (I don't know the teachers had a beef with ports).

Frazzled wrote:Agreed Dogma.

This i a momentous occasion, let us celebrate with indie rock/j-pop fusion!

If they didn't vote a strike in and people are barricading them out of paying thier bills, I tend to think the unions would cave in some skulls that same as if it were an owner lock out.

I wouldn't want to be a cop in the PNW. You should see how many people only wear black here. This is home base to most anarchistic groups and this is thir cup o tea. Occupy Portland shut down the Port of Portland yesterday and today, Eugene is in occupy mode 365/24/7, it is the capital city of the movement, anarchistic, not OWS

I found this part interesting.

Protesters formed picket lines at the entrances, and built a make-shift barricade using plywood, sections of scaffolding, oil drums and shipping pallets, reported msnbc.com's Jim Seida.

Police told KING TV that demonstrators blocked vehicular traffic and began throwing flares, bags of bricks and paint, rebar and other debris at officers at the scene. At least one officer was injured after being struck in the face by a bag of paint, KING TV reported. Eleven demonstrators were arrested. The official Occupy Seattle Twitter feed also said that police were using pepper spray.

So, the reporter saw the barricades. However, the reporter did not see anythign being thrown, that was reported by the police.

I have NO Doubt that things were indeed thrown at the police, as an officer was njured. That is wrong and terrible, and OWS is moving away from its roots as non-violence which is deplorable.

Now, with those disclaimers aside, I would be interested in getting an actual timeline of events.

Also, why were no reporters around to report the throwing of things themselves instead of relying on the reports of the police? Can someone help me out?

Easy E wrote:I found this part interesting.

Protesters formed picket lines at the entrances, and built a make-shift barricade using plywood, sections of scaffolding, oil drums and shipping pallets, reported msnbc.com's Jim Seida.

Police told KING TV that demonstrators blocked vehicular traffic and began throwing flares, bags of bricks and paint, rebar and other debris at officers at the scene. At least one officer was injured after being struck in the face by a bag of paint, KING TV reported. Eleven demonstrators were arrested. The official Occupy Seattle Twitter feed also said that police were using pepper spray.

So, the reporter saw the barricades. However, the reporter did not see anythign being thrown, that was reported by the police.

I have NO Doubt that things were indeed thrown at the police, as an officer was njured. That is wrong and terrible, and OWS is moving away from its roots as non-violence which is deplorable.

Now, with those disclaimers aside, I would be interested in getting an actual timeline of events.

Also, why were no reporters around to report the throwing of things themselves instead of relying on the reports of the police? Can someone help me out?

cops lie? or exaggerate a LOT? There were news cameras and reporters all over the place, so there should be footage of this no?

The police usually have cameras. They will no doubt bring forward appropriate video when required for evidential purposes.

There's an AP video that shows the flash bangs being thrown, I imagine there is plenty more footage, but I doubt any of those dozens of OWS cameras will publish anything that shows them beig aggressive, and it looks like a majority of the cops on site were bicycle cops (I chuckled when I watched the KING news report call them riot police) so I don't think any helmet cam footage will be out there. Hoping that perhaps the AP camera caught the full thing and it comes out at some point, if bags of paint and flares were present at all there's intent regardless of timeline.

We've really forgotten our roots. I like the addition of flashbangs but without firehoses and attack dogs it's just not a classic hippy beating.

I'm starting to think the "occupy" movement is losing steam.

The "Occupy the Ports" movement only hurts potnetial allies, and makes them look like the same-old Battle for Seattle Anarchists.

They need to go back, and re-establish their connectiosn with Labor, Veterans and Cops. After all, they are all part of the 99% as well. Get these groups talking about the same message, and then you have a powerful force. This is what you saw in Wisconsin and Ohio regarding the collective bargain battles.

I don't think Occupy the Ports helps them get these groups on side.

That being said, they could just be suffering a bit of "post'-Occupation disorganization as various groups try to figure out the best way to move forward. I think the "Occupy the Homes" process is a much more effective campaign than "Occupy the Ports".

They're amateurs. They're going to go with whatever disruption they can to mke an impact. Seems they were looking to be aggresive.. So far I can confirm one paint bag hit on a cop. Did see a few flares on the ground. Also one cannot block traffic which seems to be the launch point of law enforcement to move the protesters to the sidewalk. Then afterwards protestera again blocked another pier. Will admit...using a bike as a police barricade was pretty smooth

That was an incredibly douchey thing that the Occupy Whatever group did...

They really need to get involved more in politics than in being dicks to everyone...

Easy E wrote:I'm starting to think the "occupy" movement is losing steam.

I think there's two distinct cultures developing within Occupy. Those concerned with more 'macro' Occupy themes like getting money out of politics and closing tax loopholes, and those younger/unattached/anarchist/socialist/communist sympathizers who view Occupation as an end in its own right versus a means to an end. I think this group is somewhat educated and under-employed so it has a lot of free time and energy to burn, but a lack of practical experience allows them to drift towards sensationalistic grandstanding like these port shutdowns.

I think that an anti-bank, anti-lobbyist, anti-corruption platform is something that gets a lot of sympathy from the common American. However this pro-Union, Anarchic, reappropriation of property/wealth that was never theirs to begin with is where the message seems to be drifting to, and the primarily slightly right of center American simply does not like this message.

OWS is going to have to mature as an organization, and be willing to create a vision of America that 99% of America is actually willing to subscribe to.

sourclams wrote:

Easy E wrote:I'm starting to think the "occupy" movement is losing steam.

However this pro-Union, Anarchic, reappropriation of property/wealth that was never theirs to begin with is where the message seems to be drifting to, and the primarily slightly right of center American simply does not like this message.

Yeah, I'm not sure about the pro-union part since this anti-Port shutdown didn't do any favors for the Unions. If anything, I would say the "Socioanrachisticcpmmunist" types that you reference are part of the Port movement, and they don;t seem pro-union, more anti-establishment. They may be seeing the Unions as part fo that establishement, or at least not as allies.

sourclams wrote:

Easy E wrote:I'm starting to think the "occupy" movement is losing steam.

I think there's two distinct cultures developing within Occupy. Those concerned with more 'macro' Occupy themes like getting money out of politics and closing tax loopholes, and those younger/unattached/anarchist/socialist/communist sympathizers who view Occupation as an end in its own right versus a means to an end. I think this group is somewhat educated and under-employed so it has a lot of free time and energy to burn, but a lack of practical experience allows them to drift towards sensationalistic grandstanding like these port shutdowns.

I think that an anti-bank, anti-lobbyist, anti-corruption platform is something that gets a lot of sympathy from the common American. However this pro-Union, Anarchic, reappropriation of property/wealth that was never theirs to begin with is where the message seems to be drifting to, and the primarily slightly right of center American simply does not like this message.

OWS is going to have to mature as an organization, and be willing to create a vision of America that 99% of America is actually willing to subscribe to.

That's a pretty good analyis IMO, though I don't think they need to get 99% on their side. The Tea Party has gone a long way with a lot fewer.

Kilkrazy wrote:
That's a pretty good analyis IMO, though I don't think they need to get 99% on their side. The Tea Party has gone a long way with a lot fewer.

The Tea Party had a lot fewer what?

Money? Nope, Dick Armey took care of that.

Media? I think they pretty much had FOX news (And WSJ and CNBC too) right after the CNBC guy gave his famous rant.

People? That's harder to say.

Organization? Again, Dick Armey and his "organization" stepped in pretty early to fix that.

A lot fewer percentage support than 99%.

Apparently they were on about 27% a year ago and have dropped to 20%.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/30/us/politics/tea-party-support-falls-even-in-strongholds-survey-finds.html

Easy E wrote:Yeah, I'm not sure about the pro-union part since this anti-Port shutdown didn't do any favors for the Unions.

Personally I think there's a difference between being Pro-Union and Pro-Labor. I think OWS is all about workers' rights and income equality, which meshes very well with a pro-union stance, but a lack of practical experience and, dare I say, the majority never actually having stepped foot into a factory means they'll undertake top-line stuff that seems like a blow against The Man (port shutdowns) without considering how it affects the Common Man (hourly laborers don't get paid).

IMO, though I don't think they need to get 99% on their side. The Tea Party has gone a long way with a lot fewer.

Oh I agree. I think the big difference is the ability of the tea party to come up with 2-3 big points of consensus, and then organize and execute to get their chosen representatives into positions of power where they can enact change. OWS not only hasn't done this, but they seem steadfastly against this, claiming to be a 'horizontal' organization of direct democracy.

One of the things I learned as a Communication Major was that democratic organizational structures leads to greater intragroup satisfaction (everybody gets their say) but they result in inefficient, time-consuming processes (because everybody gets their say). At some point, to operate on a national level, OWS needs to find figurehead leaders with decision-making authority. This will certainly result in less intragroup satisfaction (hey, you don't all get your say now) but will allow them to push an agenda in a timely manner. Heck, they still have to actually develop an agenda. They seem to have a few bullet points for change that they wish to see enacted, but I have yet to see any concrete plan put forth with any sort of destination (sorry, occupation/protests is a means, not an end) for normal, everyday people to rally around.

For example: Jon Corzine lost 1.2 billion dollars' worth of segregated client money, customers that include farmers and independent brokers and trading firms. The CFTC regulators were asleep at the wheel, and the SEC regulators who stepped in to take the lead in the early stages of this meltdown lacked experience in futures exchanges. 1.2 billion dollars' worth of non-risk customer money appears to have been put at risk and lost when markets turned, and people who trusted this ex-Goldman executive, ex-Senator, committed to turning a 100-year company into a mini-Goldman which instead went bankrupt and laid off all its employees. WTF isn't Occupy protesting his senatorial hearing today, instead of shutting down ports driving commerce and jobs for normal people?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:
Apparently they were on about 27% a year ago and have dropped to 20%.

Groups that form based on fomenting dissent are destined to be flash-in-the-pan affairs with short lifetimes. Either they are effective, in which case 'mission accomplished' and the active participation decreases, or they are ineffective, in which case 'pointless time-waste' and active participation decreases.

OWS has CNN and WashPost.

It wouldn't surprise me if some people throw something but this then allows the police to brand everyone as a rioter and sweep away the whole lot.

On the other hand the police pepper-sprayed crowds of students sitting down the other day. Sure, the students encircled them preventing them leaving the park, but they were doing it in a passive manner as many were making a point of sitting down. It was surely and urgent life or death situation, as shown by the way the policeman strolls up to them with the can and takes his time spraying it around.