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So when you will hold you dying daughter in your hands, you will say to her “Sorry, we couldn't protect you from MALES, because they didn't chose to be MALES, they just chose to kill people”?
Yeah, they didn't chose to be MALES, but they can denounce their gender and renounce violence.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
Come on people, let's cool it down. Don't call people trolls, don't be rude, don't drag stuff off topic, don't bait, just stick to the rules, post politely and on topic, and everyone wins.
Super simple stuff. Let's stick to it
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own...
Yes, the belt armor... which is useless against missiles which don't hit the belt.
You could armor the deck, but that would increase the weight, make the battleship even slower and still do nothing against torpedoes.
A missile would blow up in the bomb deck, just like bombs do. In order to disable a battleship, you have to sink or take out the engines somehow. Both are in the citadel, the most heavily armored portions of the ship.
I'm actually interested to see a study of keel breakers vs a BB, but from what happened with the USS America Sink-EX I'm not certain even that would work. ATM the US Navy refuses to allow any testing of anything current against anything even remotely resembling a BB, having sacrificed the lives of 48 sailors to ensure battleships were removed from the fleet after repeated reintroduction.
There was a study conducted back in Vietnam that showed that if the Navy had allowed the New Jersey to remain on station for the duration of the war up to that point, the lives of thousands (not hundreds) of pilots might have been spared. In every war they've been used in, battleships have proven highly effective. Further, for those clearly not familiar with the actual actions of battleships in not only the world wars, but in Korea, Vietnam, Lebanon, and Desert Storm, battleships had a higher rate of 'total destruction' of targets than any other weapon system.
Much to the cheering of Marines as gak blew sky high. I'm told the Rangers were big fans of them too around Pont Du Hoc, which is still a crater field to this day, from a single, out of date WW1 BB called the USS Texas.
Battery Hamburg firing on USS Texas and USS Arkansas.
Back to the thread topic: ISIS is claiming that the London Attack was theirs. I doubt it, but they might have inspired him to do it. It struck me as almost unplanned, a sort of spur of the moment sort of thing.
Edit: sorry Motyak, I was writing and did not see your post.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/24 01:04:26
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
Yeah, guys I was talking about blackie. I thought that was obvious, but perhaps I should have quoted him. My bad.
And for what its worth, Shadow Captain Edithae, yes, the biggest source of terror right now is Islam, no argument there. But there is a mistake in thinking of something purely as history and leaving it at that, it means people can lose track of how many radical factions of any group can move in to terrorism, and perhaps more importantly it means people lose track of how they move out of terrorism. I'm not saying you did that, I just think it is a point that is often lost.
Granted. Off shoots of the IRA still exist, and they probably haven't disarmed completely, and if the peace process falls apart and the British government attempts to reassert British authority then they could theoretically return to the Warpath and engage once again in an active terror campaign. And when that day comes, I will be condemning them just as I now condemn Islamic terrorism.
I just don't think its likely to happen. The IRA have what they wanted, they hold legitimate political power and the tide of political momentum is in their favour. The British Elite has no interest in asserting British authority, in fact they've spent decades trying to divest themselves of responsibility for Northern Ireland. I think they'd be quite happy to see a united Ireland, which I think is an eventual inevitability.
The IRA basicially won, on a real politik level. Why would they ever wish to return to the Troubles, bar the odd nostalgic lunatic on the far fringes?
No, I think the real threat to peace in the future is from the Loyalist side, if the now dominant Sinn Fein begins to abuse its power and oppress the other side like they were once oppressed.
Apologies if this is also off topic, I was working a back shift today and didn't have time to reply to sebster till now. Took a while to catch up with the thread.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/03/24 01:13:54
Yes, the belt armor... which is useless against missiles which don't hit the belt.
You could armor the deck, but that would increase the weight, make the battleship even slower and still do nothing against torpedoes.
A missile would blow up in the bomb deck, just like bombs do. In order to disable a battleship, you have to sink or take out the engines somehow. Both are in the citadel, the most heavily armored portions of the ship.
I'm actually interested to see a study of keel breakers vs a BB, but from what happened with the USS America Sink-EX I'm not certain even that would work. ATM the US Navy refuses to allow any testing of anything current against anything even remotely resembling a BB, having sacrificed the lives of 48 sailors to ensure battleships were removed from the fleet after repeated reintroduction.
There was a study conducted back in Vietnam that showed that if the Navy had allowed the New Jersey to remain on station for the duration of the war up to that point, the lives of thousands (not hundreds) of pilots might have been spared. In every war they've been used in, battleships have proven highly effective. Further, for those clearly not familiar with the actual actions of battleships in not only the world wars, but in Korea, Vietnam, Lebanon, and Desert Storm, battleships had a higher rate of 'total destruction' of targets than any other weapon system.
Much to the cheering of Marines as gak blew sky high. I'm told the Rangers were big fans of them too around Pont Du Hoc, which is still a crater field to this day, from a single, out of date WW1 BB called the USS Texas.
Battery Hamburg firing on USS Texas and USS Arkansas.
Back to the thread topic: ISIS is claiming that the London Attack was theirs. I doubt it, but they might have inspired him to do it. It struck me as almost unplanned, a sort of spur of the moment sort of thing.
Edit: sorry Motyak, I was writing and did not see your post.
Even at their best, battleships depended on a large amount of support ships to protect it from airstrikes and submarines. An unsupported battleship doesn't last long. Even assuming that the battleship is practically invulnerable to missiles, its support ships aren't, and the battleship doesn't has the range to engage missile destroyers.
To put a 40k example. The battleship is like Guilliman, with an absurd punch and incredibly hard to kill, but it still basically a melee model with a 6" move.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/24 05:14:41
You don't get to handwave away facts that contradict your claims. Breivik was hardly unique, we had a guy in Sweden who went after immigrants and shot them because they were immigrants and another that thought attacking immigrant kids at a school with a sword was a good plan. Again, Jo Cox wasn't killed by a Muslim and the guy kicked to death in Finland by Neo-Nazis wasn't either. The only way of making all terror attacks in Europe have been perpetrated by Muslims is to a priori have decided to define "terrorism" in such a way that only Muslum terror attacks can qualify. We aren't going to solve the issues existing if we start from the assumption that only Muslims do this kind of act, because it's blatantly not true.
Fair enough, not only muslims do this kind of acts even in the civilized countries. But in my opinion having 1, 5, 10 or 20 of these western extremists is an exception, intelligence says there are thousands of radicals and possible terrorists in europe, we all know that thousands of people are ISIS soldiers or supporters, not to mention other radical groups, and islamic terror attacks are become too frequent. That's why I wouldn't make comparisons, how many breiviks are there? And how many Khalid Masoods? That's my point. And most of the acts that you quoted, like cox's murder and the sweden guy are wrong reaction to the problem, which is islamic radicalism that grows into democracies and the increasing of the crime rate committed by immigrants. That's my entire point, if we do nothing far rights powers will rise, it inevitable.
And how do we should react to counter radicalism, that even you accepted that it exists? By going on with our lives and do nothing?
Blackie wrote: But where? In europe, usa, australia, north africa, middle east countries all terrorist attacks were committed by muslims. Breivik is one a kind and israel is actually at war with palestinians, that is not terrorism, is defending their country (even if it should never existed).
Here's something to read for you (some may be duplicates as I googled loosely to find the stuff). You just have to look for it :/
Holger Munch, the president of Germany’s Federal Criminal Police Office, known as Bundeskriminalamt or BKA, revealed 45 fires have been started at centres that house refugees in less than five months.
The country, which has led the humanitarian response to the refugee crisis, has recorded 222 attacks on homes but only a five-per-cent conviction rate.
Government statistics reveal that last year there were about 1,000 such attacks, five times the number reported in 2014.
Just a few weeks ago a hand grenade was thrown into the grounds of a shelter. The pin had been pulled but the device did not explode.
There were 3,533 attacks on refugees and refugee hostels across Germany last year, the Funke Media Group reported on Sunday.
The attacks left 560 people injured, among them 43 children, according to an Interior Ministry response to a parliamentary question cited by the media group.
Out of the attacks, almost three quarters targeted refugees outside of their accommodations. Another 988 attacks were carried out on refugee housing, a slight drop from 2015.
I'm only seeing common crimes or people that want, in a wrong way, to defend their own country having the idea that their government do nothing to protect them. Far right powers in germany are rising because people have enough of the violence that immigrants commit everyday, and the latest terrorist attack are only making their rise faster and simpler. The german goverment tried to cover a 1000 of sexual assaults in koln on new year's eve, all committed by immigrants. This way of handling the problem is causing backlash and violent reactions linked to far right groups.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/03/24 10:54:42
You don't get to handwave away facts that contradict your claims. Breivik was hardly unique, we had a guy in Sweden who went after immigrants and shot them because they were immigrants and another that thought attacking immigrant kids at a school with a sword was a good plan. Again, Jo Cox wasn't killed by a Muslim and the guy kicked to death in Finland by Neo-Nazis wasn't either. The only way of making all terror attacks in Europe have been perpetrated by Muslims is to a priori have decided to define "terrorism" in such a way that only Muslum terror attacks can qualify. We aren't going to solve the issues existing if we start from the assumption that only Muslims do this kind of act, because it's blatantly not true.
Fair enough, not only muslims do this kind of acts even in the civilized countries. But in my opinion if we have 5, 10 or 20 of these western extremist is an exception, intelligence says there are thousands of radicals and possible terrorists in europe, and the islamic terror attacks are become too frequent. That's why I wouldn't make comparisons, how many breiviks are there? And how many Khalid Masoods? That's my point. And most of the acts that you quoted, like cox's murder and the sweden guy are wrong reaction to the problem, which is islamic radicalism that grows into democracies. That's my entire point, if we do nothing far rights powers will rise, it inevitable.
And how do we should react to counter radicalism, that even you accepted that it exists? By going on with our lives and do nothing?
Well, a start is to not lie about the nature of the problem. If I knew how to solve this issue I would.
Next point: stop making excuses for Breivik et. al. "They're only responding to islamic terrorism!" is a non-argument, it could just as easily be applied to the islamic terrorists themselves: "Oh, they're just responding to Western imperialism/oppression/having their homes bombed/etc". You're absolving these scumbags of responsibility for their crimes and managing to use their atrocities to pile further blame on Muslims.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
You don't get to handwave away facts that contradict your claims. Breivik was hardly unique, we had a guy in Sweden who went after immigrants and shot them because they were immigrants and another that thought attacking immigrant kids at a school with a sword was a good plan. Again, Jo Cox wasn't killed by a Muslim and the guy kicked to death in Finland by Neo-Nazis wasn't either. The only way of making all terror attacks in Europe have been perpetrated by Muslims is to a priori have decided to define "terrorism" in such a way that only Muslum terror attacks can qualify. We aren't going to solve the issues existing if we start from the assumption that only Muslims do this kind of act, because it's blatantly not true.
Fair enough, not only muslims do this kind of acts even in the civilized countries. But in my opinion if we have 5, 10 or 20 of these western extremist is an exception, intelligence says there are thousands of radicals and possible terrorists in europe, and the islamic terror attacks are become too frequent. That's why I wouldn't make comparisons, how many breiviks are there? And how many Khalid Masoods? That's my point. And most of the acts that you quoted, like cox's murder and the sweden guy are wrong reaction to the problem, which is islamic radicalism that grows into democracies. That's my entire point, if we do nothing far rights powers will rise, it inevitable.
And how do we should react to counter radicalism, that even you accepted that it exists? By going on with our lives and do nothing?
Well, a start is to not lie about the nature of the problem. If I knew how to solve this issue I would.
Next point: stop making excuses for Breivik et. al. "They're only responding to islamic terrorism!" is a non-argument, it could just as easily be applied to the islamic terrorists themselves: "Oh, they're just responding to Western imperialism/oppression/having their homes bombed/etc". You're absolving these scumbags of responsibility for their crimes and managing to use their atrocities to pile further blame on Muslims.
What are you saying? The majoirty of these terrorists are european!!!!!! No one bombed khalid massoud's home, or bataclan's and bruxelle's ariport attackers' homes. Breivik is a monster and need to be locked forever or executed, but how many other norwegian are like him?
I'm absolving no one. I think people like breivik and cox's murder should be executed.
The nature of the problem is that illegals has increased the crime rate in any european country and in a second moment many of them become terrorists, that's one side of the problem. The other side is that people that are born in europe but only lived in muslim communities feel like a stranger, hate the society in where they live, and if become desperate for personal failures turn into a terrorist too.
I think the real responsible for these atrocities are not only radical muslims but also those western governments that allowed the current situation, and people that support them.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2017/03/24 11:07:16
The nature of the problem is that illegals has increased the crime rate in any european country
Here is the crux of the issue, I think: why is this the case? Why has this happened, in your opinion (assuming it has at all, you're not providing any sources).
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
Blackie wrote: But in my opinion having 1, 5, 10 or 20 of these western extremists is an exception, intelligence says there are thousands of radicals and possible terrorists in europe,
Just like despite there being a few women terrorists doesn't negate the fact that there are orders of magnitude more MALE terrorists.
Blackie wrote: That's why I wouldn't make comparisons, how many breiviks are there? And how many Khalid Masoods?
Respectively ONE and ONE .
Blackie wrote: the problem, which is islamic radicalism that grows into democracies and the increasing of the crime rate committed by immigrants.
Which one is supposed to be “the problem”? Because I see two completely different things here that are somehow mixed together as if they were in any way related, when they are not.
Not to mention one of those claims is very very dubious at best.
Seriously, do you realize that you are talking about two very different things, or not?
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
Which one is supposed to be “the problem”? Because I see two completely different things here that are somehow mixed together as if they were in any way related, when they are not.
Not to mention one of those claims is very very dubious at best.
Seriously, do you realize that you are talking about two very different things, or not?
They are two different thing that are related, as many illegals come from islamic countries and cannot have a future in europe as in any nation there are lot of unenployed people that are more skilled than those immigrants, and still lacking possibilities. Not to mention that they're mostly men so it's very difficult for them to create a family. So many of them turn into criminals and once they get caught they radicalize in prison, in order to get a sense of social identity. But the rise of crime rate committed by immigrants causes backlash and gives more strenght to far right groups.
The nature of the problem is that illegals has increased the crime rate in any european country
Here is the crux of the issue, I think: why is this the case? Why has this happened, in your opinion (assuming it has at all, you're not providing any sources).
Because there are not enough resources for everyone, in my country for example there's a 40% rate of youngsters that are unemployed, and a 11% of unenployed citizens overall, which means millions of people, how can an almost illitterate migrant get a future here?
Maybe in English, French, German etc.
They will know own languages such as Arabic derivatives.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
Just show me an immigrant from a third world country that is hired in uk with a job that needs a degree. In london there are foreign people that have masters who end up to work as waiters or wash dishers.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/03/24 13:06:49
Just show me an immigrant from a third world country that is hired in uk with a job that needs a degree. In london there are foreign people that have masters end up to work as waiters or wash dishers.
NHS. If you've got a valid Doctorate, c'mon over and work for us. Biggest employer in the UK, and without migration it'd collapse.
There's also native Brits with degrees and masters and doctorates working dead end jobs. That's not the fault of migration, that's down to successive failures of Government Policies, not to mention 'The Old Boys Network' continuing to keep qualified people out of their chosen field in favour of say, Old Rupert Smith-Smythe-Smith's less qualified son/daughter, because Rupert is ever such a nice chap.
Now, you want to know how we defeat ISIS?
We need to stand up to their counterparts in Europe. The EDL. Britain First. Farage. Hopkins. Same message, different side of the coin. - our civilisations and cultures are incompatible war is inevitable us or them me first me first blame it all on the darkies. Idiots like those mentioned only feed into the Islamist 'us vs them' mentality and claims.
Freedom of speech is one thing, but we can very easily No Platform those espousing damaging rhetoric. We wouldn't let old Captain Hook on Newsnight to spout his lies and bigotry, but Farage is fine just fine.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
That's a good point, I'm talking about illegals, not generic immigrants or refugees. Many people consider them the same thing.
Do you distinguish between illegals who are looking to survive in Europe and maybe being exploited etc and those who come here with ulterior motives?
If they end up being crminals or terrorists, then no, I don't care about their initial motivations. I know people want to survive, but if their only way to survive is to become a criminal and eventually a terrorist in a second moment, I don't think they should be allowed to harm other people only because they were born in a poor country.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/24 13:08:27
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: NHS. If you've got a valid Doctorate, c'mon over and work for us. Biggest employer in the UK, and without migration it'd collapse.
The question was, how many of these well educated immigrants are coming from the "Third World"?
Now, you want to know how we defeat ISIS?
We need to stand up to their counterparts in Europe. The EDL. Britain First. Farage. Hopkins. Same message, different side of the coin. - our civilisations and cultures are incompatible war is inevitable us or them me first me first blame it all on the darkies. Idiots like those mentioned only feed into the Islamist 'us vs them' mentality and claims.
Problem is, those Right Wing groups are reactionary. They're only rising in power and influence and popularity, because there is a perception (rightly or wrongly) in Britain and elsewhere in Europe that mainstream political parties aren't doing enough to tackle issues and in some cases outright ignoring and denying them for reasons of political correctness.
Mass Immigration. Gangs grooming children. Mass sex attacks in Germany and elsewhere. Migrant riots in France, Italy, Greece etc. Islamic fundamentalism. Lack of integration of immigrant communities.
To name but a few.
When people feel the Mainstream political parties are ignoring them and the issues they care about, they turn to the only people talking about those issues and proposing solutions. And that happens to be the Far Right. Far Right extremism is a symptom, not the root problem. The root problem is an out of touch political Elite enacting policies that the working classes of Europe oppose and which the rich political elite don't suffer the consequences of. When people protest against these policies, they're labelled racist, and people like YOU try to silence them. YOU drive them into the arms of Far Right extremists.
Freedom of speech is one thing, but we can very easily No Platform those espousing damaging rhetoric. We wouldn't let old Captain Hook on Newsnight to spout his lies and bigotry, but Farage is fine just fine.
The fact that you think comparing Nigel Farage to a convicted Terrorist and hate preacher is a valid comparison...is part of the problem. Nigel Farage is no extremist. He's not even particularly right wing, he sure as hell is not a traditional Conservative. By lumping him in together with the likes of the EDL and Britain First, you're doing the exact same thing you accuse critics of Islam of doing - lumping them all together as one great Monolith and failing to distinguish between moderates and extremists.
No, you simply disagree with his views, and so you seek to silence him. THIS IS WHY PEOPLE TURN TO THE FAR RIGHT.
I'm also of the opinion that we SHOULD let Islamic extremists onto Newsnight. The best way to defeat Extremism of any variety is by debating and discrediting their views publicly and fairly. You can't do that by silencing them. All that achieves is to drive them underground, fuel their victim narrative, and it proves that you fear what they have to say. If their views are so self-evidently wrong and repugnant, then it should be no problem to discredit them on Newsnight, should it?
Refusing to engage with and publicly discredit their views by silencing them is cowardice, and only serves to make them stronger.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/24 13:14:05
Just show me an immigrant from a third world country that is hired in uk with a job that needs a degree. In london there are foreign people that have masters end up to work as waiters or wash dishers.
NHS. If you've got a valid Doctorate, c'mon over and work for us. Biggest employer in the UK, and without migration it'd collapse.
There's also native Brits with degrees and masters and doctorates working dead end jobs. That's not the fault of migration, that's down to successive failures of Government Policies, not to mention 'The Old Boys Network' continuing to keep qualified people out of their chosen field in favour of say, Old Rupert Smith-Smythe-Smith's less qualified son/daughter, because Rupert is ever such a nice chap.
Now, you want to know how we defeat ISIS?
We need to stand up to their counterparts in Europe. The EDL. Britain First. Farage. Hopkins. Same message, different side of the coin. - our civilisations and cultures are incompatible war is inevitable us or them me first me first blame it all on the darkies. Idiots like those mentioned only feed into the Islamist 'us vs them' mentality and claims.
Freedom of speech is one thing, but we can very easily No Platform those espousing damaging rhetoric. We wouldn't let old Captain Hook on Newsnight to spout his lies and bigotry, but Farage is fine just fine.
Far right groups' rise and terrorism are consequences of the same problems, I don't want any le pen, farage, akesson, wilders to rule in european countries, but I do think that some cultures can be incompatible with a democracy and we have to accept and not ignore that, that's why some people need to change or an endless war like in israel it's inevitable. I've always said that nationality and religion are not an issue, the issue comes when some communities want to recreate an islamic society and the current society does nothing to stop them. In the name of political correctness some governments allow nazi parades or salafists speechs in public places. That is not acceptable.
ISIS is one of the consequences of the problems, we should focus on the problem. Defeating ISIS is possible but it means:
- End their reign in iraq and syria with a war
- Don't allow radicalisms in europe
- Increase the welfare of our countries in order to make social intergration possible for people with different cultures, which also means to expel the illegals
- Stop helping, supporting, making business with goverments that are radical muslims or dictatorships like iran, egypt, qatar and saudi arabia. Their existence is the reason why radical islam is always present
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/24 13:05:11
Blackie wrote: They are two different thing that are related, as many illegals
Illegals? So you are now including yet another completely different problem into the mix? Ok.
Blackie wrote: So many of them turn into criminals and once they get caught they radicalize in prison, in order to get a sense of social identity.
You seem very confused. Illegals immigrants that become criminals are a tiny tiny part of all criminals, and of all illegal immigrants. Once they are caught they are deported, and they don't need a sense of social identity because they already have one.
Blackie wrote: how can an almost illitterate migrant get a future here?
Why do you assume that a migrant is almost illiterate?
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
Blackie wrote: I know people want to survive, but if their only way to survive is to become a criminal or a terrorist
That's really stupid. You don't survive by becoming a terrorist. You know those are not paid jobs with good retirement plans and all…
Blackie wrote: Just show me an immigrant from a third world country that is hired in uk with a job that needs a degree. In london there are foreign people that have masters end up to work as waiters or wash dishers.
Go to any research lab, mate.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: The question was, how many of these well educated immigrants are coming from the "Third World"?
Ahah dude this is so wrong! There are tons of people from the third world that are more educated than you will ever be.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/24 13:16:43
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
When people feel the Mainstream political parties are ignoring them and the issues they care about, they turn to the only people talking about those issues and proposing solutions. And that happens to be the Far Right. Far Right extremism is a symptom, not the root problem. The root problem is an out of touch political Elite enacting policies that the working classes of Europe oppose and which the rich political elite don't suffer the consequences of. When people protest against these policies, they're labelled racist, and people like YOU try to silence them. YOU drive them into the arms of Far Right extremists.
See, the thing is I agree completely up to the point where the Far Right supposedly are the only ones talking about the issues and proposing solutions. I'm not trying to silence anyone, I'm trying to point out that allying yourself with xenophobic douchebags is a really poor idea. You're (generic "you") more than welcome to protest against government policies, but when the basis of the protest is "the immigrants are taking our jobs!" or variations thereof you're no longer arguing in good faith. It's entirely possible to protest against stupid governance WITHOUT having to join forces with the far right, but people would rather take the easy way out and blame it on the immigrants than to organize politically separately from the far right.
In essence, if there's a choice between organizing yourself politically or supporting the far right and people are joining the far right then those people are at least indifferent to the awful parts of the far right, if not outright supportive of them.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
Blackie wrote: I know people want to survive, but if their only way to survive is to become a criminal or a terrorist
That's really stupid. You don't survive by becoming a terrorist. You know those are not paid jobs with good retirement plans and all…
The access to paradise and the concession of dozens of virgins seems a good retirement plan to me, if you come from africa, a middle eastern country, or a banlieu.
.
Nigel Farage is no extremist. He's not even particularly right wing, he sure as hell is not a traditional Conservative. By lumping him in together with the likes of the EDL and Britain First, you're doing the exact same thing you accuse critics of Islam of doing - lumping them all together as one great Monolith and failing to distinguish between moderates and extremists.