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Made in us
Dakka Veteran




110 wounds, 55 Models: 1993

HQ: 263 (4 Wounds)

Thousand Son Chaos Sorcerer Lord

Mark of Tzeentch: 10

Demonic Essence: 15

Demonic Strength: 10

Demonic Rune: 35

Demonic Mutation: 15

Demonic Resilience: 10

Power Sword: 18

Personal Icon: 10

Terminator Armor: 25

Familiar: 5

Bolt of Change: 30

Winds of Chaos: 20

 

Elites: 451/902 (17/34 wounds)

2 x 8 Thousand Son Terminators + 1 Aspiring Champion

Demon Strength: 5

Demonic Mutation: 10

Great Weapon: 3

Familiar: 5

Bolt of Change: 30

Winds of Chaos: 20

 

Troops: 207/828 (18/72 wounds)

4 x 9 Flamers of Tzeentch: 23 points each 207

   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch






You really need to remove the upgrade costs from your post and keep the total unit cost.

 

This actually gives me an interesting idea, don't know if it was your intention. Can you deepstrike and summon demons on the same turn? That would be one hell of a demon bomb.


   
Made in us
Omnipotent Lord of Change





Albany, NY

You're getting close to a Dustwing army like the one I run - all Tzeentch terminators & flamers (with some screamers cause they're pretty). 1k Son terminators are absolutely golden, IMHO, and in fact what I don't like about your list is that you've taken a HUGE lord instead of a third 1k Son termi squad! Here's my preferred kit on the termi squad, by the by:

9 1k Son Terminators - AC w/ chainfist, mutation, bolt of change, warp focus = 446

This makes the squad nasty and hard in all aspects - shooting, combat, whatever. When I take 3 squads of them I take one with wind of chaos, but I'd rather take 2 with bolt of change before taking wind. SO with your kit, the problems I see are:
  1. 2 psychic powers?! - just take boc, cause getting off woc is going to be tricky for such sloooow squads
  2. Scrap the familiar - you want to be able to deepstrike these guys down into range, which will also keep them safely off the field instead of stumbling around being shot
  3. Take a chainfist instead of strength & the great weapon - and remember that your sorcerers come with power weapons normally, so replace their stormbolters with the fist and you can grab yet another attack (5 each with no charge!)
  4. Strip down your lord and take a third squad


If you want to take the über-dp, there are some issues there as well - 2 psychic powers, etc. I still say drop and fit in another beautiful terminator squad, but that's me ... Also, 9-strong flamer squads can be a little cumbersome in my opinion, but if you want sacred numbers instead of 6-daemon squads then go for it. Hope some of this helps.

- Boss Salvage

KOW BATREPS: BLOODFIRE
INSTAGRAM: @boss_salvage 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




After checking what i could change it looks like I was unable to afford any more units, unless I added a chaos dread, but I don't like its random roll ever turn. . . I also like the strength 6 master crafted power weapons, It allows me to threaten almost any thing I would want to assault and my commander actually has strength 7, Initiative 6 on the charge. . . I believe most targets are going to have major issues dealing with this army. . . In hand to hand, I will win, shooting they will lose namely because of so many wounds and being able to use 9 man squads of basically what amounts to a heavy bolter, will deal with the only army that could field enough Las-Cannons to actually threaten me. . . I am happy with 6 scoring units in this elite of any army. . .

110 wounds, 55 Models: 1978

HQ: 258 (4 Wounds)

Thousand Son Chaos Sorcerer Lord

Mark of Tzeentch, Demonic Essence, Demonic Rune, Demonic Mutation, Great Weapon, Power Sword, Personal Icon, Terminator Armor, Bolt of Change, Master Crafted Great Weapon, Warp Focus, Furious Charge

Elites: 456/892 (17/34 wounds)

2 x 8 Thousand Son Terminators + 1 Aspiring Champion

Demon Strength, Demonic Mutation, Great Weapon, Bolt of Change, Master Crafted Great Weapon, Warp Focus


Troops: 207/828 (18/72 wounds)

4 x 9 Flamers of Tzeentch: 23 points each 207

   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





I'm not sure wtf you are doing with the aspiring champion here man. Great weapons are not power weapons.

Termie aspiring champion should have:

demonic mutation, chainfist, and BoC (if you think you are starting on the board always, take thrall wizards)

Never, ever take a great weapon without stature as...it's not a power weapon.

You should not buy an expensive lord in this list because your 5 attack aspiring champions and units full of power weapons will do the killing for you. I would actually take Big Bird for fluffy reasons.

Something like:

Lord of Change

1 x 8 tk termies + aspiring champ with daemon chains and a power weapon
1 x 8 tk termies + champ with bolt of change, mutation, chainfist
1 x 8 tk termies + champ with bolt of change, mutation, chainfist

As many flamers/horrors as you can fit.

Your goal then should be to play 'vp denial' - you have very tough units that are nearly impossible to get below half if you are careful with them, and realistically there are only 3-4 turns of the game for your opponent. And everything you have will get to shoot at least once and before your opponent. Your LoC will get to fly out, kill something big with wind of chaos and then hide.

Some final thoughts:

READ YOUR CODEX.


   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I'm not sure wtf you are doing with the aspiring champion here man. Great weapons are not power weapons.


Arg, your right I was reading it incorrectly, i thought it was an upgrade for the weapon. . .

110 wounds, 55 Models: 1970

HQ: 250 (4 Wounds)

Thousand Son Chaos Sorcerer Lord

Mark of Tzeentch, Demonic Essence, Demonic Rune, Demonic Mutation, Personal Icon, Terminator Armor, Bolt of Change, Warp Focus, Furious Charge, Dark Blade


Elites: 456/892 (17/34 wounds)

2 x 8 Thousand Son Terminators + 1 Aspiring Champion

Chain Fist, Demonic Mutation, Bolt of Change, Warp Focus


Troops: 207/828 (18/72 wounds)
4 x 9 Flamers of Tzeentch: 23 points each 207
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





Oh you may also want to take an extra close combat weapon on the AC. Think Chaos termies can take those. 1pt for an extra attack'd be cool

Also, I'd strongly, strongly advise not buying a 250 pt character without stature who can't join a squad before the game.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Lord of Change

1 x 8 tk termies + aspiring champ with daemon chains and a power weapon
2 x 8 tk termies + champ with bolt of change, mutation, chainfist
1 x 8 tk termies + champ with bolt of change, mutation, chainfist

As many flamers/horrors as you can fit.

Longshot, that list is illegal. Thousand Sons Terminators are elites on the force org. chart. You can't have 4 units.   READ YOUR CODEX

citadel97501, play the list you want but I say more Terminators and less Flamers.

I recommend:
Chaos Lord with Mark of Tzeentch, Furious Charge, Disc of Tzeentch, Pair of Lightning Claws, Personal Icon and Melta Bombs.
3 units of 8 Terminators + Aspiring Champion with Doombolt and Chainfist
2 units of 9 Screamers
2 units of 4 Flamers and 5 Horrors

Some points I consider important:
Chaos Lords don't need to shoot, it's one model, the rest of the army will have enough guns.
Terminator Armour is at it's best versus shooting, so stay out of combat.
Don't mix anti-tank and anti-infantry weapons in the same unit. Do one or the other, not both.
Hit and Run is good and Screamers are cheap.
Daemons die first. Summon them between your marines and the enemy.
Overlap your shooting. There's a reason Bolters are 24" range, Flamers are 18" and Horrors are 12"

This list has no anti-tank firepower but if you think having 3 Bolts of Change is going to make a big difference citadel97501, think again.


Nothing Can Kill The Grimace

Any conversation about composition scoring on DakkaDakka is the blind leading the blind.
Or the evil leading the blind, more accurately. - xtapl 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





It was a typo, dude. Forgive. 4 squads would never fit in 2000 pts anyway (each squad of 9 is like 400+ pts).

p.s. since you're advising someone to buy doombolt in an army with no tankpopping at all, you lose the coolness factor you had by 'owning' my typo. BoC or GoC or WoC. That is all.
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





Man, I can't believe that advice. Screamers? No. Just no. Your list is not the worst ever but your playstyle advice has to be the most ridiculous I've heard.

There is one Tzeentchian daemon almost worth its points and that is the flamer.

3 bolts of change actually does make a pretty big difference. A lot more than a few heavy bolters will make in a list full of combibolters and power weapons and flamers with doombolt.

Tzeentch termies are one of the meanest CC units in the game when coupled with a 4 attack powerfist in the squad and the entire squad being two wounds. If you think you don't want them to get into assault because their combibolters are better, you are absolutely insane. I'd say there can't be more than one or two units in the entire game you would not want to engage with one of those termie squads.

And: Buy a Lord of Change! T6 with a 4+ invulnerable, an 18" engagement range on the turn he arrives with Winds of Chaos, is a Much, Much better investment than a normal Lord. And let me tell you something else that is useful: a Tzeentch army lead by an LoC is about 9000 times more likely to get good painting and composition scores. His speed and tank popping ability is pretty huge as well.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 


Nothing Can Kill The Grimace

Any conversation about composition scoring on DakkaDakka is the blind leading the blind.
Or the evil leading the blind, more accurately. - xtapl 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 


Nothing Can Kill The Grimace

Any conversation about composition scoring on DakkaDakka is the blind leading the blind.
Or the evil leading the blind, more accurately. - xtapl 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Screamers, yes. I didn't say that Screamers are good. I said that Hit and Run is good. The Screamers are cheap and the only thing that's going to keep up with a flying Lord. If he's all alone on the flanks he's going to be mugged by enemy shooting, especially without a Daemonic Rune. I wish they were Furies too, but they aren't.

The Bolts of Change are only 24" range and if you're shooting at armour that's 8 marines not shooting at troops.
For high toughnesses, I prefer more shots over stronger shots.

The Terminators are good in close combat but shouldn't be the first ones into the fray. If the enemy is in your lines, tie them up and after they dull their teeth on the cheaper squads, hit them with the Terminators. Daemons die first.

Greater Daemons are big and showy but they are also large targets. I like to use terrain smaller than a building to cover my models and use Independant Character shooting restrictions. The best armour is not being shot at.

You don't have to like it, it's my style.

Nothing Can Kill The Grimace

Any conversation about composition scoring on DakkaDakka is the blind leading the blind.
Or the evil leading the blind, more accurately. - xtapl 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





I wasn't really saying I didn't like it so much as that it is awful.

It's difficult to convey in words how bad an idea it is to play an army that has exactly zero chance of killing a vehicle at range, ever. Especially when you trade your move and shoot armor killer for a gun that duplicates everything else in your army.

Even if you really want to hamstring your army with no BoC, at least get something good like Winds or Gift. Eachof those would be an infinitely better option.

Sure, you'll lose some bolter shots sometimes, but other times you'll save your army by glancing a falcon and keeping it from shooting its pulse laser at you. Other times you'll blow up a vindicator's S10 AP2 cannon that can take out squads at a time.

I'm not gonna say a GD is always better than a chaos lord - in fact the Lord is very often better if you're careful and know how to build him. However, yours is an embarrassment. Flying character with no power and a pathetic combat layout? With the points you're spending on him I'd always rather have a Keeper who can hide in a unit and be invulnerable until the turn he comes out (not get drop podded or landspeedered). T4 with no invulnerable save, packs less punch, isn't any faster, and has no power. Your Lord is absolutely atrocious. At least give him Winds of Chaos so he can accomplish something before he gets power fisted
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





The problem I have with Bolt of Change is it's range. Using your example, a Pulse Laser Falcon will stay 25" away or more and pick you apart, Bolt or no Bolt. Sure a Vindicator has to get closer but it's AV 13 and Str8+1d6 is crap trying to take that out. You will miss or fail your roll to penetrate most of the time. You only have 2 Bolts in your list; that's worse anti-tank than some World Eater armies. If you want to shoot Vehicles, don't use TS Terminators. Go use Predators, Defilers or Dreads.

I wouldn't even take Doombolt if the Mark of Tzeentch didn't grant Aspiring Sorcerer Champion status for free. At 15 points it's a good bolter uprade. Would you rather take 1 Str4 shot at 18" or 3 at Str5? Remember "Flames of Tzeentch"? That was a power worth 30 points.

The Lord isn't meant to be a powerhouse. Think scalpel not slegehammer. He's looking at Rear Armour and isolated support squads as priority targets. If you don't want him to be hit with a powerfist keep him 2" away from models with powerfists. With 5(6) power weapon attacks re-rolling wounds at 5(6) initiative and Screamer support, keeping his killzone clear is possible.

Nothing Can Kill The Grimace

Any conversation about composition scoring on DakkaDakka is the blind leading the blind.
Or the evil leading the blind, more accurately. - xtapl 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Still, you are designing your Lord to be very situational and the Chaos COdex in General allows for some very effective combos when designed correctly. Thousand Sons Lords tend to be a little more expensive because you want to give him all the CC upgrades a usual Chaos Lord has and then you have the Psychic stuff...

Still, a Flying Lord has very good chance of getting picked off and/or insta killed.  I say thumbs down to the Flying Lord. I think the Lord of Change is your best bet. He can actually take on a lot of differnt roles.  He can do well in CC, he can Penetrate vehicles in CC pretty easily.. Honestly, I think he is one of the better Greater Deamons to pick from.
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





The House that Peterbilt

Longshot, that list is illegal. Thousand Sons Terminators are elites on the force org. chart. You can't have 4 units. READ YOUR CODEX

Technically you can have 5 terminator squads in a thousand sons list. Of course three of those units would have to be the overpriced tzeentch chosen terminators.

Hit and Run is good and Screamers are cheap.

Mandatory Hit and Run is not good and screamers are not cheap for what they do.

Terminator Armour is at it's best versus shooting, so stay out of combat.

I'd rather face a few ccws and maybe a fist or two then several units shooting at my terminators. Depends on the opponet of course and as always YMMV.

And: Buy a Lord of Change! T6 with a 4+ invulnerable, an 18" engagement range on the turn he arrives with Winds of Chaos, is a Much, Much better investment than a normal Lord. And let me tell you something else that is useful: a Tzeentch army lead by an LoC is about 9000 times more likely to get good painting and composition scores. His speed and tank popping ability is pretty huge as well.

While I agree the LoC is one of the better daemons and a better pick then the disc lord, I think that a greater daemon is a terrible choice for a daemonwing army. Losing one of only 2 or 3 champs is huge. A cheap statured Lord (170-190 point range) won't take away an AC and his psychic power and 4-5 fist attacks abd it costs less overall.

snoogums: "Just because something is not relavant doesn't mean it goes away completely."

Iorek: "Snoogums, you're right. Your arguments are irrelevant, and they sure as heck aren't going away." 
   
Made in us
Stabbin' Skarboy



Dirty Jersey

most people say " i dont want to mix fire" when it comes to adding BoC to their champs. but think about it, you aren't fighting horde armies most of the time. You are fighting MEQs! thus 3 hb's shots are less effective than a str 8 AP 2 shot, which is good to take out oblits and termies too!

heck even if you are going against nids/orks/horde army. Vs orks they always have a trukk or wartrakk (even nailing a nob from HQ 20pts + gear is good!), vs Nids the AP 2 comes into play versus the big things.

there is a reason why you take the Death Chicken or a DP because they are your assualt elements that take out tanks most of the time, but they shouldn't be your ONLY way of doing it.

Follow me on twitter @cerealk195

Add me on league: Cerealkiller195 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





I actually really like the thought of an aspiring champ with an LoC in him in the dustwing. Until he dies/spawns the turkey he's a str 6 power weapon that fights at initiative. That's decent.

He also allows you to preserve him for a long time, as you don't have the roll for him 'til the termies arrive.

I'd rather have that than a daemon prince who has to start on the table in every game except escalation and then has to arrive via the table edge whereas your dudes can deep strike in.

Losing a 5 attack fisty champion is tough beans but the huge flexibility of the greater daemon's arrival method is not to be ignored (he comes out virtually when you want him to with the chains) and then gets to do all his stuff the turn he pops out, rather than risk getting railgunned or similar.

The daemon prince is just not very flexible. He's too prone to getting shot to death before he accomplishes anything, since he can't deepstrike and can't start on board in escalation like termies can. He adds very little to the army that a naked lieutenant with BoC wouldn't do better.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





You can have up to 5 termie units in a Tzeentch army.

Lord+chosen retinue
Lt+chosen retinue
Lone termie unit of chosen (The above 3 take up 2 HQ and 1 elite)
2 Rubric Termie units.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





You can have up to 5 termie units in a Tzeentch army.

Lord+chosen retinue
Lt+chosen retinue
Lone termie unit of chosen (The above 3 take up 2 HQ and 1 elite)
2 Rubric Termie units.
   
 
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