Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Acid blood triggers when a model suffers an unsaved wound.
Entropic Strike removes a models armor save when that model suffers an unsaved wound.
Hexrifle has the chance to ID if a model suffers an unsaved wound.

TYR.84A.04--Q: If a model suffers more unsaved wounds than it has Wounds left on its profile, do these 'extra' wounds cause Acid Blood attacks back on the enemy?
A: No, the Acid Blood rule only applies to Wounds the creature actually suffers. Wounds in excess of what the creature actually has, and those negated by 'Feel No Pain', do not benefit from Acid Blood [clarification].

While the INAT FAQ is in no way official, those of you that believe FNP does not stop ES from working - do you usually follow the INAT FAQ?

This ruling on Acid Blood (which is noted as a clarification and not a rules change) says that FNP absolutely stops something that was triggered by an unsaved wound. Which would mean that ES or Hexrifle would also be stopped by FNP - since they trigger the same way.

Thoughts?

While I agree with that particular interpretation, I have realized that the INAT needs some work to make it better.

I reference my post on the matter in this thread:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/417923.page#3698675

Sweet. All my armor is restored if I pass my FNP. . .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:

Thoughts?

Forgot to add my 'thoughts'. The INAT is a great resource for TO's and those tough jams in tournaments. I think they have gotten a few incorrect, but everyone probably thinks that. There are a few things that they've ruled on that have caused more problems than they've solved, but unfortunately, you can't pick and choose the rules you want to use and the ones you don't. If you use the INAT, you use it completely or not at all.

So, I have to take the good with the bad. I have to cast Fortune on Eldrad's unit -and- Eldrad if I want them both to have it when they separate (which makes no sense, since the unit is together and Eldrad cannot choose himself as a separate target, or that Eldrad cannot benefit from his own power at all, which is also illogical) - but I get to restore an Archon's Shadowfield to 2++ if I pass FNP (which also makes no sense - the failing of a Shadowfield happened from the same trigger that caused a FNP roll. . .but that's a conversation for another thread or six).

I think the issue here is a game logic versus real logic break. In real logic, the eldar shadow field is an external field that, once penetrated is lost. Thus, if stabbed through the field, but the wound is inconsequential, you still lose your field. This also means that in real world logic, shots that miss, and shots that fail to wound can also bring down the shadow field... Logically failing to wound and making a fnp are the same, as is a fatal las cannon shot that is only a millimeter away from the archons head, barely missing.

In game logic though, the entire process of hits, wounds and saves only cares about the end result... Did the model lose a wound. This abstraction is necessary, and feel no pain only seems different due to when it happens. Really, fnp could come before armor saves and after to hit rolls, and game wise the results would be identical--same probabilities in the end.

Edit: we see this happen with twin linked weapons that get hot as well. The model rolled a 1, meaning the weapon got hot, BUT somehow the second barrel that fired somehow cools off and negates the 1 that was rolled.

DevianID wrote:Really, fnp could come before armor saves and after to hit rolls, and game wise the results would be identical--same probabilities in the end.

Before saves maybe (depending how fnp really affects hex, acid blood and 2++). After to-hit no. You still need to satisfy wound allocation and taking saves first and wounding later changes the outcome..

True Macok, I forgot in a complex squad wound allocation would be different depending on the order. On simple units and single model units there will be no difference though.