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Eldar: http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2012/01/19/40k-imperial-armor-apocalypse-second-edition-eldar-review/

Imperial Guard: http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2011/12/07/40k-editorial-imperial-armor-apocalypse-second-edition/

Space Marines: http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2011/12/25/40k-editorial-imperial-armor-apocalypse-second-edition-part-2/

Chaos: http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2011/12/30/imperial-armor-apocalypse-second-edition-part-3/

Necrons: http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2012/01/04/imperial-armor-apocalypse-second-edition-necrons-review/

Orks: http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2012/01/09/imperial-armor-apocalypse-second-edition-orks-reviewed/

So here is the second part of our ongoing review of the units in the book for anyone interested. Like we said, even though these won't be in the Singles event (but will be in the Team Tournament) we wanted to get info out there about them.

Every week, we will break down and playtest more units from the book for those who are curious about them.

Reece

Good review... And shows why FW units won't be allowed in most tourneys anytime soon. That 5% of crazy awesome underpointed broken units is always marines. "Hits every model in the transport? 18" blast in non-apoc 40k? WTF" is basically the response most people who have never heard of Forgeworld rules will have.

The Seige Dread is my favorite pick in the book for Marines. For the points, you get a lot of Dreadnought. He weighs in at 120pts, and comes with a Flamestorm Cannon, Extra Armor, and a DCCW that has a built in Heavy Flamer and an awesome special rule: +D6 on the armor pen roll against stationary vehicles and any penetrating hit(s) in the assault phase cause all models inside the vehicle to be hit by a Heavy Flamer! Wow! F you, Battlewagon Orks!

This guy is an Elite choice for any Marines but Blood Angels.

Final Verdict: For the price, this guy is amazing. Pop him in a Drop Pod, or a Lucius Patter Drop Pod and let him go crazy. Awesome unit, well worth the points and one I would take in a competitive build, no question.

So many of the units are for any Marines but Blood Angles :-/. Not that we need more Dread options, but I do feel a bit left out

At least since we can't take the Caestus Assault Ram, it gives me more excuse to follow through on converting one to use as a Storm Raven. Slightly on-topic, but I don't know if you've played against these in-person (you mentioned you had played against Lucius drop pods in several tourneys) but if so, would one converted up as a Storm Raven seem OK to you as a tourney gamer, assuming it adheres to wysiwyg?

Very nice write-up!

nkelsch wrote:Good review... And shows why FW units won't be allowed in most tourneys anytime soon. That 5% of crazy awesome underpointed broken units is always marines. "Hits every model in the transport? 18" blast in non-apoc 40k? WTF" is basically the response most people who have never heard of Forgeworld rules will have.

Did you read the article?

nkelsch wrote:Good review... And shows why FW units won't be allowed in most tourneys anytime soon. That 5% of crazy awesome underpointed broken units is always marines. "Hits every model in the transport? 18" blast in non-apoc 40k? WTF" is basically the response most people who have never heard of Forgeworld rules will have.

18' range, it's still just a large blast.

Sasori wrote:

nkelsch wrote:Good review... And shows why FW units won't be allowed in most tourneys anytime soon. That 5% of crazy awesome underpointed broken units is always marines. "Hits every model in the transport? 18" blast in non-apoc 40k? WTF" is basically the response most people who have never heard of Forgeworld rules will have.

18' range, it's still just a large blast.

Oh then I misunderstood.

But the siege dred is unreasonable and the dred droppods is a huge shift to the meta and how a large percentage of the codexes are played if becoming tourney legal.

Even for the high points, the contempors are unreasonably brutal as well. I am not sure I like this shift for all these invunerable saves on vehicles.

They are all neat models, and fun... And hopefully in 6th edition they will allow the design studio to designt he rules for FW models into the core ruleset.

nkelsch wrote:

Sasori wrote:

nkelsch wrote:Good review... And shows why FW units won't be allowed in most tourneys anytime soon. That 5% of crazy awesome underpointed broken units is always marines. "Hits every model in the transport? 18" blast in non-apoc 40k? WTF" is basically the response most people who have never heard of Forgeworld rules will have.

18' range, it's still just a large blast.

Oh then I misunderstood.

But the siege dred is unreasonable and the dred droppods is a huge shift to the meta and how a large percentage of the codexes are played if becoming tourney legal.

Even for the high points, the contempors are unreasonably brutal as well. I am not sure I like this shift for all these invunerable saves on vehicles.

They are all neat models, and fun... And hopefully in 6th edition they will allow the design studio to designt he rules for FW models into the core ruleset.

How is the siege dreadnaught any less reasonable then a psyflemen or a BA dread with bloodclaws? Soul grinders? And for 200+ points contemptors are giant walking targets. Really cool targets, but if you want them to start having firepower that the cost warrants then you're looking at something that is the same price as a land raider but without the durability (and people don't exactly rave about the firepower of land raiders).

If this book (which I don't think you read) is any indication then the forge world team has gotten significantly better at balancing rulesets then GWs own idiot design team. The assault ram is the only choice in the book even close to edging on overpowered and it's a significant investment in armies that don't have the tools to fully utilize it and in an environment where it's likely to explode first turn in most of its games. The contemptors are cool but they aren't even close to overpowered or undercosted.

Imo the the Mortis pattern contemptor is probably the best dreadnought in there. It is BS5 and 12 assault cannon shots a turn for around 175 pts I believe or less

As a BA guy, it kinda sucks that we didn't get invited to the party for many of the better options... then again, I don't actually play 40k, so I'll make a few Mortis C-dreads anyhow lol

Kirasu wrote:Imo the the Mortis pattern contemptor is probably the best dreadnought in there. It is BS5 and 12 assault cannon shots a turn for around 175 pts I believe or less

180 (minimum) isn't that great for an av13 walker with 12 non twin linked assault canon shots at 24". It's going to spend much of the game unable to shoot due to being shaken or stunned and AV13 isn't hard to simply kill either. 24" puts it dangerously close to melta range as well. It's not bad mind you, it's one of the variations I would run. Good firepower for the cost, but it's got plenty of downsides given that it's a walker platform with very poor close combat ability and a very large model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MajorTom11 wrote:As a BA guy, it kinda sucks that we didn't get invited to the party for many of the better options... then again, I don't actually play 40k, so I'll make a few Mortis C-dreads anyhow lol

Give everyone else planes, librarian dreads, lightning claw dreads, priests that give FNP, deep striking land raiders, and useful chaplains and you'll get to be on the train for the big dradnaughts and goofy looking space ships.

Also, you get the contemptor, about the only thing you're missing is the assault ram and you already have the stormraven, which other marines don't.

I still dont understand why players complain about FW models and rules. Its undercost and it totally broken......yeah tell that to GK players.....hold on we are undercost, we have all have PW, in PA, with and have psychic power, plus they can upgrade to str 5. our Terminators can have str 7 autocannon on a stick.....and players complain about a Contemptor with 12 shots, by the way only Space Marines, Black Templar, Dark Angels can get them.

ShumaGorath wrote:

MajorTom11 wrote:As a BA guy, it kinda sucks that we didn't get invited to the party for many of the better options... then again, I don't actually play 40k, so I'll make a few Mortis C-dreads anyhow lol

Give everyone else planes, librarian dreads, lightning claw dreads, priests that give FNP, deep striking land raiders, and useful chaplains and you'll get to be on the train for the big dradnaughts and goofy looking space ships.

Also, you get the contemptor, about the only thing you're missing is the assault ram and you already have the stormraven, which other marines don't.

Lol what part of I don't play 40k did you miss? No need to get worked up bud, I just have a weird modellers compulsion to try to make my units playable, despite the fact they will never see a table in all likelihood. So my criteria for models is more 'ooo that looks sexy I wants it' than is it an effective and cheap unit. I would rather have sexy Mortis Contemptors than the Storm Raven just on looks (which is why I spent a great deal of time converting my SR into something that I didn't find moderately upsetting to the eye).

In short, no need for tit-for-tatting lists, at least based on my commentary. That being said, considering where I posted perhaps I should have thought twice since it is very much a list based forum...

Lol what part of I don't play 40k did you miss?

The part where you posted in the first place I suppose. You "get" everything if you don't play 40k, so why complain about things you don't "get to have"? Ignoring from the outset the fact that the BAs get the most visually unique units of any marine codex outside of Grey Knights already.

Thanks for ignoring the rest of my post in it's entirety where I essentially conceded those very points by way of explanation. By all means, keep being upset and pissy though, you seem very offended about it and I will not make the mistake of trying to mollify your toy-soldier hang-ups again. I apologize for voicing a differing perspective than your own.

Let's all move on now shall we?

The Contemptor is good, but a Psyfilmen dread is far, far better for the points.

It is a very expensive dread, but good, as it should be for the points.

Opinions vary, as they should, but I honestly don't feel any of that stuff is over powered.

I am glad you guys found the article stimulating, though!

MajorTom11 wrote:Thanks for ignoring the rest of my post in it's entirety where I essentially conceded those very points by way of explanation. By all means, keep being upset and pissy though, you seem very offended about it and I will not make the mistake of trying to mollify your toy-soldier hang-ups again. I apologize for voicing a differing perspective than your own.

Let's all move on now shall we?

That will be quite enough Shuma.

Reecius wrote:The Contemptor is good, but a Psyfilmen dread is far, far better for the points.

It is a very expensive dread, but good, as it should be for the points.

Opinions vary, as they should, but I honestly don't feel any of that stuff is over powered.

I am glad you guys found the article stimulating, though!

It was, thank you for the effort you put in! (Sorry about the unintentional and unexpected derail too)

I think the only thing I agree with are the contemptor dreads, being nearly twice the price of normal dreadnaughts doesn't make them a real hot choice. Everything else...I suppose it's better to just keep my mouth shut so as not to start an argument, but to be frank: the drop pod is a bigger deal than you give it credit for (guaranteed assault unless you roll a 1, even if there are already units in 40k that can get a first turn assault that doesn't make it or them balanced...also, do those other units have the ability to be placed anywhere on the table, exactly when and where you need them?), the assault ram is nuts even at its points cost, and the only thing keeping me from frothing at the mouth over the achilles is the 325 base points cost. I still don't think that's good enough to excuse making a tank that's literally almost invincible, though.

(By the way, the reason why no one bitches about a 2.8% chance to kill land raiders right now is because 1) there aren't a whole lot of competitive lists utilizing them, and 2) the reason why you take so many melta weapons is in the eventuality that someone does. So you've taken away the most effective way to kill it, and on top of that made it even more resistant to lascannons, which is all your IG army is going to have left. Tau players just bring 9 twin-linked railguns as always, everyone else...um..."play around it", whatever that's supposed to mean. Pretend it doesn't exist and maybe it'll go away? lol)

All in all, this particular article isn't very effective if you're trying to convince people that FW rules aren't broken. It also doesn't help that Space Marines apparently get the best deal out of all these units. The Dark Eldar tantalus is a beautiful model that I'd like to be able to use in games (for about $160 it better damn well be "official" to make me even consider parting with the cash), but it costs about 100 points more than it should and apparently requires me to waste an HQ slot on an archon and a gakky court. The reaper is also absolute garbage, it's weapons are worthless against both infantry and vehicles, and the ugly old fighter they're still selling for some reason (?) is not any better.

It's not all bad though, some armies do get some good stuff that gives them a much-needed power boost. Eldar got a couple neat toys, Orks got a few fun things (squiggoths sound insane, 150 points for three MC transports?), and even Tau got the TX-42 and Mr. O'rly. That's about it, though, Chaos got nothing worth mentioning. IG got one or two good things but nothing that's particularly game-breaking.

I still dont understand why players complain about FW models and rules.

Because you see all the overpriced garbage and conveniently miss the underpriced bs units hidden in the gak. Which as you rightly pointed out, 40k has enough of as it is. Nice internet hyperbole by the way, because the contemptor is one of the few things in the book available to Marines that's overpriced. No one is complaining about the contemptor being too good.

Chaos did get a dread and the dreadclaw drop pods.

He only reviewed space marine units in the above article. He had reviewed the IG units in a previous article and will review the units of others races in future articles.

BTW the Lucious Drop Pod is not a guaranteed first turn assault. The pod does scatter 2/3 of the time.

A good review overall, though I would argue a couple of points. With regards to the Lucius pod, having also played against it, I feel there still remains an issue. Many of the units reliably able to engage in turn 1 assaults cannot do so with S10, nor can they do so after firing a BS4 multi-melta into a transport and assaulting into the disembarked unit.

Yeah, there's the 1/6 chance of immobilization, but with such a high degree of DS safety and able to strike literally *anywhere* there's room turn 1 and there's nothing an opponent can do to avoid it other than hope for bad scatter (often a non-issue given drop pod placement ability and the fact that turn 1 there's likely to be stuff anywhere it scatters) or that you roll a 1, overall it's a capability that so much of the game has been built around not allowing for the last...almost 14 years, that it's difficult to really account for.



The Contemptor dreads, while cool in their own way, really feel redundant and out of place.

In gameplay terms, they basically do the job of both ironclad and normal dreads, and really further reinforce the notion of the basic dread being pointless for anything but a Rifleman setup in competitive matches. This isn't something unique to the Contemptor, this happened a lot with the BA book where from out of nowhere this jump pack reliant-assault oriented chapter suddenly had more heavy battle tanks and combat walkers than any other Space Marine chapter out there, but it is another issue on top here, with the basic dread becoming consistently more and more sidelined and cheapened.

In fluff terms, they are something out of myth even amongst the mythical Space Marines, and having them be so available and with unique variants for sub-chapters feels odd, that there are enough of these machines of literal legend, much less dreads of all kinds, that all these Chapters can field them at all much less in multiples and variants just feels...weird. Even basic dreads are machines that even the most blessed chapters have only a dozen of, most have half that or less, while, from their description, Contemptors are something that there might be a dozen of in existence in total, being so widespread and available takes away from their real status. Granted, this quibble has nothing to do with tournament play and whatnot, but everything about this hobby is built from its fluff, stuff that ends up being very weird fluff-wise takes away from the experience as a whole and the Contemptor is one of the few (the only?) FW models I feel that does this. It'd fit fine in a 30k campaign, but *feels* hamfisted into the current game.

mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:I still dont understand why players complain about FW models and rules. Its undercost and it totally broken......yeah tell that to GK players.....hold on we are undercost, we have all have PW, in PA, with and have psychic power, plus they can upgrade to str 5. our Terminators can have str 7 autocannon on a stick.....and players complain about a Contemptor with 12 shots, by the way only Space Marines, Black Templar, Dark Angels can get them.

Yeah the other day I tried comparing Incubi to grey knights with halbreds and the advantages the gks get is silly, but thats GW for you, if you're not marines you get self damaging rules that are eventually stolen, bad stuff removed and recycled into a marine book. Im expecting future marine books to have Entropic strike.... most likely from a gun with 8 shots or something silly.

MajorTom11 wrote:As a BA guy, it kinda sucks that we didn't get invited to the party for many of the better options... then again, I don't actually play 40k, so I'll make a few Mortis C-dreads anyhow lol

Yeah, this was my thinking, too . Part of me says, I want to keep my toys to myself but it's nice that other armies get to have some of the dread-awesomeness that we have inherently. Doesn't keep me from being a bit jealous, though

No one responded to my question above, and I know it's only slight on-topic, but- since I can't field the Caestus Assault Ram, would a suitably converted one be an acceptable Storm Raven stand-in for you tourney folks?

I'm sure most people would be ok so long as you get the guns right, but I do have to ask, couldnt you get like two storm ravens for the cost of a cestus from FW?

Yeah, or more . Worth it if I only want one, though! The trick is only wanting one

RiTides wrote:

MajorTom11 wrote:As a BA guy, it kinda sucks that we didn't get invited to the party for many of the better options... then again, I don't actually play 40k, so I'll make a few Mortis C-dreads anyhow lol

Yeah, this was my thinking, too . Part of me says, I want to keep my toys to myself but it's nice that other armies get to have some of the dread-awesomeness that we have inherently. Doesn't keep me from being a bit jealous, though

No one responded to my question above, and I know it's only slight on-topic, but- since I can't field the Caestus Assault Ram, would a suitably converted one be an acceptable Storm Raven stand-in for you tourney folks?

That'd be more than fine by me I think.

Having said that, I'll trade ya for my Storm Raven

For the BA contemptor: I don't know if 50 points more than a furioso is too much to pay for fleet, a 6+ save, and +1 str on blood talons... But it's pretty close. It does lose a ws, and the buil in melta gun but it also gains the 5+ against shooting which means it can leave the safety of a shield of sanguinus bubble.

@Thread
No worries about expressing your opinions, guys, we don't get mad if people disagree with us at all. We know people won't always agree with the way we see things, and that is fine. We are interested in hearing different points of view.

@Darth Diggler
Thank you! Haha, everyone seems to assume the assault happens 100% of the time. It doesn't. Deff Koptas are more reliable, to be honest. They aren't strength 10, true, but they don't need to be against most vehicles.

Like I said, I have actually played against thing in tournaments multiple times when it had the older, better rules, and it wasn't that big of a deal.

To each their own, but this thing is being feared more than it should be.

The Conetmptors are cool and good, but priced fairly and so, for me, just cool characterful units.

The Chaos Contemptor with Mark of Nurgle and Butcher Cannon is pretty awesome, though. We tried that thing out, and yeah, that there is the business!

The Dreadclaw is really cool, too, but we'll get to those.

Awesome review Reecius - thanks - I liked your take on everything - agree with pretty much everything.

We are looking to have approx 3 or so Caestus each in the Club - I will get mine sooner than later knowing a few of those Tactical suggestions

I love the Mortis Dread - looks like a Baby Titan

Much Dakka Dakka goodness methinks!

I look forward to reading the reviews of the other units. I picked up the new Wraithlord model. I think Footdar do not have room in the HQ slots to take one, but it looked cool.

I love the Butcher Cannon for chaos, but the chaos contemptor is so expensive. A naked one with only a butcher cannon is the same cost as a chaos land raider. Yikes!!