Tentacle Bento cancelled by Kickstarter - Rebooted on Sodapop site - see first post for link

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**puma713**

Manchu wrote:@Eric:

That's a good point. There is an indirect relationship between the investor and Kickstarter. But let's face it:

- No Creators = No Kickstarter; AND
- No Investors = No Kickstarter

I am really curious as to what you think Kickstarter sells if not the direct connection between creator and investor? And I'm also curious to hear what you think Kickstarter did by canceling this project if not sever that very connection?

John Cadice of Kickstarter emailed Brandon Sheffield and Sheffield intervied him. IMO, Cadice comes off as truly professional here and I'm glad Sheffield allowed and published this dialog:

http://insertcredit.com/2012/05/17/the-boundaries-of-humor-an-interview-with-john-cadice-creator-of-tentacle-bento/

Agreed. In fact, the interview made it seem like Brandon Sheffield was searching for any sort of attack angle that he could drive home. And then, he doesn't seem to consider what John Cadice says in regard to his questions. For instance:

insert credit wrote:BS: You also said: “Yes, the art is suggestive, but there is no nudity, no running screaming fearful faces dripping with tears and horror, there is plenty of innuendo, as it is geared to get a naughty giggle out of a table of adult gamers.. but anime fans know about this genre, the taboos around it, etc.” – in my article, I asserted that treating the subject of rape or molestation lightly is part of the problem. How do you respond? It calls to mind these old ads. Some might call it harmless fun, others might say it perpetuates a mindset of casual treatment of violence toward women.

JC: It’s a valid point, there is nothing casual about violence, rape, molestation. Working in marketing, social norms shift and change depending on the audience you want to reach. I don’t ask everyone to love this game, anime in general is quite a rub to lots of people. I do not believe it perpetuates a casual mindset toward rape, because, as its designer, that was not the intent, and mostly because there is not rape in our game.

We can run down a million rabbit holes just as bad by cross examining why women wear high heeled shoes, the appropriateness of camouflage as a textile pattern for children… etc etc etc. Show me ponies being ridden by children under a rainbow, and I will find someone to shout about the subjugation of intelligent animals for our petty amusement with as much intensity as this argument.

This really gets to the center of Brandon Sheffield's point I think, but not only does he simply gloss over it, he moves on to another attacking question, as if he's waiting for John Cadice to slip up and reveal that he really does support violence against women or something.

Glad that he posted the interview though. Just seems like if he didn't have this to bitch about, it would be something else like-minded. Brandon, if I wasn't supporting the game before, I am now.

**wyomingfox**

Because (alledged or otherwise) subjugation or abuse of animals is on par with (alledged or otherwise) subjugation or abuse of human minors... o_O. That would run counter to US law.

**puma713**

wyomingfox wrote:Because (alledged or otherwise) subjugation or abuse of animals is on par with (alledged or otherwise) subjugation or abuse of human minors... o_O. That would run counter to US law.

I think you missed the point.

**Kovnik Obama**

"Groping" is pretty much by definition, without consent and considered a form of sexual assault. Sure it's not as serious as rape, but that's like saying "I shot your child in the foot, but at least I didn't shoot him in the head!"

Off-topic but if a person 18 or older "groped" a person under 18 in the U.S, I believe it would be clasified as "sexual assault of a minor" regardless of whether the minor consented or not...though there are exceptions (Parental Consent to be maried to a minor 16 years or older). The guilty party would be facing jail time.

Both of you managed to miss the fact that I was referencing this in the context of an octopus trying to grab a girl. You wanna serious this much? You got yourself a frakking challenger ;

a) Rape implies a sexual intent or an intent against the (sexual) integrity of the person. Aliens aren't necessarily sexual beings. Thus, it's possible that it would be impossible for an alien to rape a human.
b)In the case of an octopus, since it cannot give consent, or request it, it cannot rape.
c) In the case of an alien with tentacles, any form of groping would be indistinguishable from any other kind of contact.
d) ... Just try not to rape something when your only appendages are basically very very long tongues. You know, there's a reason why Slaanesh gives those to his followers...

**MagickalMemories**

AegisGrimm wrote:Here's my two definitive statements on this whole thing:

1. Kickstarter can do whatever the hell they want with their site. It totally sucks if you don't like what they do, but there it is.

I totally agree!

AegisGrimm wrote:2. On the state of the game and it's image of imagines rape: It's not real, and because of that its perfectly legal, too, so you are within your rights to enjoy it. But most people are likely to think it's damn creepy that someone gets enjoyment out of it, and if you are defending it, don't go trying to pretend to be surprised by the negative reactions. You aren't fooling anyone.

Aaaaaaaaaaand you lost me... a little.
There is no rape or images of rape in the game. There isn't even a HINT at it in the game. The only inkling of it being associated with rape is in the minds of those people who are familiar with T.R. in hentai. They CHOOSE to associate the game with T.R. because, well, anime and tentacles.
Granted, it's what SodaPop was thinking when they made the game, but they (apparently) worked hard to keep the association out of the game.
I also agree that most people will think it's creepy.

------------------------------

For those who are interested; I spoke with my wife last night. She's more conservative than I am, by nature, and she's, well, a woman. I wanted to get her conservative woman's opinion.
She knew what hentai was, but never heard of...err... the tentacle variety...
Her initial response to TR was, "That's stupid. Why would someone want to look at that?" It was not outrage or, as a woman, anger at the objectification of women or putting rape in a light so as to make it entertainment. Her reaction was, "That's dumb."
So, I pressed her a bit further on the TR topic, and eventually did get from her that she would be offended by SEEING it herself, and doesn't really think it's something that people should be producing... but she's not nearly as outraged about it as many MEN in this thread are.

Then, I explained what Tentacle Bento was (I had to give her my FEELINGS on what "Bento" probably alluded to, based on definitions I'd found online), the general mechanics of playing the game, and told her about Kickstarter canceling it, probably due to public outrage/pressure from conservative people. I asked her what her feelings were about the game, based on what she knew.

She asked (and I answered):
Do any women/girls get raped as part of the game?
(No)
[--Note, that's "fake" girls, not girls IRL.]

Are there pictures of girls getting raped on any of the cards?
(Not as far as I can see. Let's presume not.)

So, then [here, she reiterated the general mechanics of the game], and it's all about SNATCHING the girls?
(Yes.)

That's a stupid game.
(With a few changes, it could be an "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" thing, so I see the potential for coolness with some changes.)
No. It's stupid.
(FINE! It's Stupid! LOL But, are you offended by it?)
Why would I be offended by a fake card game about alien abduction?

So, there you go.

Eric

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:The facts, as near as they can be deciphered thanks to Kickstarter's policy of not explaining its actions to all of its customers, have been established.

- Kickstarter approved the Tentacle Bento Project.
- The Tentacle Bento Project made good headway.
- Kickstarter put the Tentacle Bento Project on its own front page as a "Staff Pick."
- Brandon Sheffield urged his readers to demand that Kickstarter cancel the project.
- Sheffield's article was praised by and distributed through Kotaku.
- Kickstarter canceled the Tentacle Bento Project.
- The Tentacle Bento Project had been funded as of that point in the amount of $30,701.
- Soda Pop Miniatures moved the project to its own site as a pre-order offer.
- As of right now, Soda Pop has received pre-orders in the amount of $22,138.
- We will never know how much investors would have sunk into the Tentacle Bento Project if Kickstarter had allowed it to continue.

So which of these facts am I not giving enough weight, Eric?

-We have no proof that Kickstarter actually caved to to ASSUMED demands from readers who may or may not have contacted Kickstarter.

That one.

They have a right to have a moral "line" not to cross as a company and a right to stop supporting a project they feel crosses it; even one they previously allowed. It's unfair to assume you know why they changed their minds, as you only know THAT they changed their minds.

Eric
(BTW, please don't feel that I'm singling you out... I mean, I kinda AM... but it's only because you're one of the few people here I disagree with who is also being sensitive, non-insulting, and who I trust not to make it a personal thing)

Automatically Appended Next Post:

wyomingfox wrote:
Kovnik Obama wrote:I'd like to note the fact that 'tentacle rape' in this context seems to means 'tentacle groping'. Is groping rape now?

Off-topic but if a person 18 or older "groped" a person under 18 in the U.S, I believe it would be clasified as "sexual assault of a minor" regardless of whether the minor consented or not...though there are exceptions (Parental Consent to be maried to a minor 16 years or older). The guilty party would be facing jail time.

And the fictitious girls in the game are all 18+. How does the statement above address the subject at hand?

Eric

**wyomingfox**

LOL...I thought it said high schoolers... not university students.

**Kovnik Obama**

Shocking news at 23 : girls under 18 ALSO LOVE TO HAVE THEIR BOOBS FONDLED (sometimes)

Also : Said girls CAN BE DEPICTED HAVING THEIR BOOBS FONDLED WITHOUT IT BEING A REPRESENTATION OF RAPE

**Absolutionis**

wyomingfox wrote:Because (alledged or otherwise) subjugation or abuse of animals is on par with (alledged or otherwise) subjugation or abuse of human minors... o_O. That would run counter to US law.

You must have missed my more legitimate comment.

"Grouping" is, by legal definition, Sexual Assault. Simple as that.

There is no legal technicality that you can squeeze your strawman now.

Sexual Assault is never acceptable even if you call it "groping".

**wyomingfox**

Who are you argueing with?

**Manchu**

This is the response I posted to Brandon Sheffield's article:

Mr. Sheffield,

Your central point seems to be that Tentacle Bento trivializes violence against women. I would suggest that your argument begs the question.

I really don't have any interest in defending the hentai sub-genre of tentacle rape but I do want to point out that you have offered no credentials to support the idea that you have an accurate understanding of Japanese niche cultures or how they are patronized in the West. Your argument that this brand of hentai trivializes or advocates for violence against women therefore boils down to "come on, it's obvious." That is astoundingly presumptive given the seriousness of the charge. Indeed, it reminds me of the post-rape scenario where the victim is told "come on, that short skirt (etc) makes it obvious that you wanted it."

But fine, for the purposes of this comment, I will assume (despite having no actual knowledge derived from research or any other special insight myself) that the tentacle rape sub-genre does in fact trivialize violence against women. We can come to your next assumption: that any depiction suggestive of that sub-genre also trivializes violence against women. In your analysis of your interview with Mr. Cadice, you mention that Mr. Cadice did not satisfactorily explain how Tentacle Bento is a satire of the tentacle rape sub-genre. Your conclusion seems to me to be based on the idea that a proper satire would explicitly denounce the genre.

Earlier today, I cam across the comments on tumblr by a person named Michelle Zhang. She had this to say:

"So where’s the controversy? The controversy comes from our own minds. Our own already twisted minds projecting our thoughts on to the game. And in a way I feel like this game is suppose to get us to have that reaction. It’s a sort of commentary on how we see certain things. A commentary on how this genre has been so pervasive that we automatically associate “tentacle” with something more sinister."

I thought that was exceptionally poignant. The satirical possibilities of this game are directly the result of what it leaves to your imagination rather than any narrative that it forces on you. And it is you who creates the satire by engaging. Tentacle Bento makes of aware of our need to rationalize things that we don't actually understand. It doesn't provide us with the tools to undertake that rationalization, either, which I find to be its most fascinating feature. Frankly, this is the bizarre and uncomfortable experience of exposure to the Japanese niche-culture of hentai tentacle rape. That hentai makes us judge. Not passing judgment doesn't seem to be an option. Even people who try to avoid xenophobia cannot help but wonder "what is wrong with Japan?"

Of course, that judgment/rationalization is not a hard one because the actual tentacle rape anime is so obviously disgusting to most Western people. (Contrast the questions "is murder wrong?" and "is a soldier killing an enemy soldier during wartime wrong?" for example.) Tentacle Bento does indeed clean that image up a bit and so the judgment call becomes harder. The ambiguity that you complain of, in other words, is absolutely essential to the satire. And the satire, as I indicated earlier, is not really of tentacle rape hentai but of our reaction to it.

If you look at Mr. Cadice's responses, right from the beginning he is eager to apologize for anyone being hurt or upset. You can cynically dismiss that as PR but I believe it indicates the actual quality of satire that was intended -- basically, to make the target audience uncomfortable enough to blush and feel confused about how they "should" (especially within the rather puritanical bounds of public sexual discourse in America) react. Mr. Cadice acknowledges that this experience of ambiguity may indeed upset some people outside of the target audience and I find that sincere.

One objection to my argument above is that the target audience would not be made uncomfortable or undergo any cognitive dissonance by engaging with Tentacle Bento. I think that point reveals a basic lack of familiarity with the target audience. The best way to illustrate my point is: if the target audience were people who approved of or lusted after violence against women, why would this game so studiously avoid that very thing? It seems to me that not being explicit, not hammering anyone over the head with the sheerly bizarre imagery of hentai tentacle rape is itself the point. If the target audience was people who get off to girls being raped by monsters ... well, I'd say that Soda Pop did a very poor job targeting them with Tentacle Bento.

I think the point of this game is to ask yourself why you're blushing; to ask yourself why you have the assumptions that you do. Like everything, a lot of people won't get past the very superficial experience of the mechanics and the pictures. But just as you seem to assume that a tacit approval of and participation in the subjugation of women is the obvious content of this game, I think the obvious content is a Western experience of something that is basically not Western.

Regardless of our disagreement, I appreciate the space you have provided for dialog and hope that it will remain unclouded by preconceived notions about what people who enjoy different things than you, who are in some (perhaps otherwise insignificant) way not like you, MUST be like or MUST advocate in order to be different from you in that manner.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

MagickalMemories wrote:
Manchu wrote:So which of these facts am I not giving enough weight, Eric?
-We have no proof that Kickstarter actually caved to to ASSUMED demands from readers who may or may not have contacted Kickstarter.

I have actually tried to keep my arguments about Kickstarter being unreliable and my arguments about why Tentacle Bento is not advocacy of violence against women separate. I haven't assumed that Kickstarter capitulated to Sheffield's readers as a fact and that's why I didn't include it in the list of facts. But I do think, given Kickstarter's behavior before and after Sheffield and Kotaku's call-to-arms, provides for the reasonable inference that this is the case.

**puma713**

Manchu wrote:*snip*

Well said, Manchu. Excellent post.

**Kovnik Obama**

Absolutionis wrote:
wyomingfox wrote:Because (alledged or otherwise) subjugation or abuse of animals is on par with (alledged or otherwise) subjugation or abuse of human minors... o_O. That would run counter to US law.
You must have missed my more legitimate comment.

"Grouping" is, by legal definition, Sexual Assault. Simple as that.

There is no legal technicality that you can squeeze your strawman now.

Sexual Assault is never acceptable even if you call it "groping".

grop·ing /ˈgroʊpɪŋ/ Show Spelled[groh-ping] Show IPA
adjective
1. moving or going about clumsily or hesitantly; stumbling.
2. showing or reflecting a desire to understand, especially something that proves puzzling: a groping scrutiny; a groping expression.

grope /groʊp/ Show Spelled [grohp] Show IPA verb, groped, grop·ing, noun
verb (used without object)
1. to feel about with the hands; feel one's way: I had to grope around in the darkness before I found the light switch.
2. to search blindly or uncertainly: He seemed to be groping for an answer to the question.
verb (used with object)
3. to seek by or as if by groping: to grope one's way up the dark stairs.
4. to touch or handle (someone) for sexual pleasure.
noun
5. an act or instance of groping.
6. Slang . an act or instance of sexually fondling another person.

Let's note that if there is a sexual meaning to 'grope', it isn't a violent sexual meaning. So again, there it is ; your own bias as a Westerner is causing cognitive dissonnance when entering a cultural object that isn't produced by your culture.

**Manchu**

Another Kotaku hit job:

http://kotaku.com/5911214/creator-of-satirical-tentacle+rape-game-apologizes

I wrote an email to the author, Kirk Hamilton:

Dear Mr. Hamilton,

I have been following the story of Tentacle Bento pretty closely but I
am not associated with Soda Pop Miniatures in any way other than
having recently pledged money to the Tentacle Bento project. I just
read your recent piece "Creator of 'Satirical' Tentacle-Rape Game
Apologizes" and I wanted to bring to your attention a different
perspective on this matter. I have attempted to post the following
comments to Brandon Sheffield's article containing his interview with
John Cadice. I hope you will take the time to read them even if they
are quite lengthy.

[snip]

Thank you for reading all of that, if you did. Whether or not you can
agree with me or even conceive of my point of view in this matter I
think it is important that we at least try to share different views.
In that light, I am sorry to say that I found you article to be
conclusory and judgmental. I don't know whether Kotaku aspires to
neutrality in coverage as a matter of professionalism or not but
statements like "And satirical intentions or no, this game is… well
come on, guys, it's pretty creepy." don't seem to forward that goal.
Also, the lack of any mention of Kotaku's earlier article in
solidarity with Mr. Sheffield much less Kotaku's approval of the
Tentacle Grape soda product seems inappropriately misleading.

I would ask that you reconsider your coverage of this issue as a
matter of conscience.

Thank you again for your consideration,

**Absolutionis**

Kovnik Obama wrote:
Absolutionis wrote:"Grouping" is, by legal definition, Sexual Assault.
(dictionary quote)

Legal definition.

**Kovnik Obama**

A legal definition applied outside of a legal context. No one argued that groping couldn't be rape, but it was mentionned (humorously, on top of things), that an octopus couldn't do anything else but grope. On behalf of all cephalopods of this world, I contested that one could do such an easy reduction of 'groping' to 'rape', since it would then force a crime on an entire natural Class.

And legally, no, groping doesn't constitute a sexual assault. Groping AND the Mens Rea of Sexual Assault constitute a sexual assault.

**Manchu**

Mr. Hamilton responded to me very quickly and suggested that I create a Kotaku account and post my comments publicly. He is even taking his time to help me use their system as I have no idea how it works and couldn't seem to get the post to register. I'd say that's a pretty great response.

**Mannahnin**

Groping isn't inherently violent or assaultive. People can and frequently do consensually grope one another.

...what a silly discussion.

Note: Please don't infer any judgment in that. I'm participating, after all!

-----------

I tend to concur with Manchu on the subject.

This is a pretty inoffensive and satirical game, playing in a silly way with the conventions of anime, and joking about a subgenre which most gamers and geeks are not fans of, but are aware of and no doubt at least a little discomfited by. If I enjoy anime, would I be alarmed to find out that my mother, or boss, or female acquaintance I was interested in asking out, had just found out about hentai or tentacle pron, and now that was their primary association with anime? Of course I would. I would be worried about being tarred by association, misjudged as a pervert.

The game plays with that taboo, and that discomfort, and seems to do so very gently and without being really tasteless or gratuitous. It's all innuendo, nothing explicit.

If they really were trying to appeal to people with rape fantasies, I can't imagine that this would be the approach they'd take. People into that crap can get free pron to support that fantasy any time they want. I can't see them being satisfied with or into something tame and cheeky and cute like this.

Another point I'd like to make about the game, is that playing a villain does not make you a bad person. People play villains in games all the time without condoning real violence, backstabbing, or crime. Whether lightharded card games like Aye Dark Overlord, or playing supervillains in a superhero roleplaying game, or playing Vampires in Vampire: The Masquerade, or playing Chaos or Tyranids in 40k. Playing a game in which your character is a murderous, or even genocidal, criminal does not make you a bad person or mean you are doing something really transgressive. And by comparison with some of the games we enjoy, with more serious themes, the abstract protagonists of Tentacle Bento are pretty darn mild and inoffensive. I'd rate them about as scary and dangerous as Pinky & the Brain.

**Kilkrazy**

I made a comment on the Kotaku story, linking their page that extols the pleasures of Tentacle Grape.

It has not yet got through the moderation process, though.

**BrookM**

I wouldn't be surprised if Kotaku did some editing behind the scenes.

**Kilkrazy**

If they do, I have done a Print Screen.

**BrookM**

Kotaku has done article and comment editing before. hey ran an article on a ladmag doing a Devil May Cry 4 promo, where a glamour girl is posing as Dante, Kotaku titled the article "Dante as a half-naked SLUT" which they reluctantly changed after the girl's agency got involved. Wouldn't surprise me if they tried to deny the grape soda article ever existed or changed the article contents to reflect the current direction the wind is blowing.

**AegisGrimm**

2. On the state of the game and it's image of imagines rape: It's not real, and because of that its perfectly legal, too, so you are within your rights to enjoy it. But most people are likely to think it's damn creepy that someone gets enjoyment out of it, and if you are defending it, don't go trying to pretend to be surprised by the negative reactions. You aren't fooling anyone.

Aaaaaaaaaaand you lost me... a little.
There is no rape or images of rape in the game. There isn't even a HINT at it in the game. The only inkling of it being associated with rape is in the minds of those people who are familiar with T.R. in hentai. They CHOOSE to associate the game with T.R. because, well, anime and tentacles.
Granted, it's what SodaPop was thinking when they made the game, but they (apparently) worked hard to keep the association out of the game.
I also agree that most people will think it's creepy.

Ok. I can get that, but for further clarity......how about I expand that statement to "any niche interest". That also covers me playing with my little painted army men. I know full well tons of people think that my hobby is creepy and weird. Meh, whatever. But like it's been done on this thread, throwing arms up in the air and screaming about how people are being "unaccepting of my interests" just makes it worse.

------------------

As for the angle if Kickstarter, I daresay this is not the "first time ever" that they have told a game/product that they could not use the service anymore, even after it's been posted. The only way for the naysayers to get their way if they well and truly hate KS now, is to either not use Kickstarter anymore, or buy them out and run them their own way. Period.

Just for the record, I don't particularly demonize this game because of it's "implied tentacle rape". What makes me shake my head is the creepy, weird, super over-sexed genre it's in. This particular genre of Manga and it's art-style is right up there with the kids who pathologically draw penises all over the place. It gives the impression that it's impossible to think about anything without imagining women who look like they're jail-bait (but with giant boobs) groping all over each other.

I won't ever say that you can't do it, but man........weird much?

**Kilkrazy**

I buy a bus and set up a company that advertises it will take passengers from A to B as long as they don't bring any pets or smelly foods on the bus. Also, no conversation is allowed on the bus. The ticket is to be paid at the end of the journey.

Someone comes to the bus stop. I check him for pets and smelly foods. He's clean, so I let him board.

Half way through the journey, some other passengers start to complain that they don't like the design of this passenger's T shirt.

I kick him off the bus, but that's all right because I haven't charged for a ticket and he can probably get a lift the rest of the way. That's not my problem, and I can do what I like with my bus because it's my bus.

**Alfndrate**

Manchu, very nice comments indeed. Hopefully this blows over. I'm tempted to post somethings about Soda Pop, but I'm afraid my friend might blow up at me again.

**Manchu**

Kilkrazy wrote:That's not my problem, and I can do what I like with my bus because it's my bus.

That's a good analogy. The next scene is the guy who got kicked off the bus telling everyone he knows that the bus is an unreliable means of conveyance. Of course, some of them will insist that the story is actually about the t-shirt.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

AegisGrimm wrote:What makes me shake my head is the creepy, weird, super over-sexed genre it's in.

"Creepy and weird" (and occasionally "over-sexed") are all adjectives that could be used to describe things that YOU like to do -- miniatures wargaming and tabletop roleplaying, for example. And, as I have tried to bring to the attention of people reading this thread, do you somehow not remember that those criticisms ARE leveled at things you like? How does it make you feel to be called a "creepy" guy who plays "weird" games? Oh, I know your games aren't creepy or weird. It's just some other people, "basement dwellers" or something, who ruin it for us "normal, healthy" people.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alfndrate wrote:... but I'm afraid my friend might blow up at me again.

This is the problem. Funny enough, I actually have seen a similar sentiment expressed on a rape awareness poster. The poster said "it's not consent if you make me afraid to say know." In this situation, one might say "it's not a meaningful discussion if you make me afraid to speak my mind."

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:If they do, I have done a Print Screen.

Someone else had posted it last evening and they let it stand. Like I mentioned above, the author of that article went out of his way to help post my comment (which was quite critical of his piece) so I feel like that's a significant testament to at least Kirk Hamilton's integrity if not Kotaku's.

**AegisGrimm**

And, as I have tried to bring to the attention of people reading this thread, do you somehow not remember that those criticisms ARE leveled at things you like? How does it make you feel to be called a "creepy" guy who plays "weird" games? Oh, I know your games aren't creepy or weird. It's just some other people, "basement dwellers" or something, who ruin it for us "normal, healthy" people.

I don't mind it at all. At age 30, I've gotten over it. Hell, I'm a LARPer, too. So is my fiancee. I like to call it "melee paintball" to outsiders, lol.

**biccat**

Kickstarter TOS
You shall not, and shall not permit any third party using your account to, take any action, or Submit Content, that:

■is unlawful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, libelous, deceptive, fraudulent, tortious, obscene, offensive, profane, or invasive of another's privacy

**Manchu**

Mannahnin wrote:People play villains in games all the time without condoning real violence, backstabbing, or crime.

That's a great point but it's actually a really hard point. With tabletop games, playing a villain is pretty acceptable because someone has to provide the antagonism in order for the game to function dramatically. In video games, where the AI can stand in for the antagonism, allowing players to assume the role of villainous (or at least "seedy") characters has been heavily criticized from time to time. Even in table top gaming, it's easy to get caught up and forget our role for the purposes of the game mechanics (competitors) is different from our role as people who are playing a game together (friends). That's why games like Talisman and Diplomacy are some times called "the destroyer of friendship." Now imagine that kind of immaturity, the simple inability to distinguish reality from games, as the basis for public discourse about morality and ethics. That's the issue here, I think.

**H.B.M.C.**

I'd love to play this game with people who have never heard of tentacle rape hentai, especially kids around age 11-14. I want to see if at any point 'rape' even enters their mind as they play it.

I doubt it would.

**Kilkrazy**

We need a "reasonable person" test on whether things are offensive.