Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Hi guys, I'm taking part in a 4 week SW:A campaign, and I need some info...
I'm currently running g an Appointed immortal with 4 other immortals,all armed with Gauss blasters, for 940pts.
What should I spend the other 60pts on? I'm thinking either give the 4 immortals photo visors for that +1 BS against in cover/running enemies, or give 2 immortals shadowlooms for perma -1BS and use them as LoS blockers while moving the group together?
I find phase shifter to be situational at best, and will only be issuing them if I have a surplus of points. Also, once I earn points, what should be the next step? Gear up existing troops, or get extra ones?
- I haven't found Shadowlooms to be worth it. It's a good chunk of points and sadly it doesn't stack. So you don't become any harder to hit once you're behind cover.
- Phase Shifters are pretty good for if you don't escape pinning. You still get a 2" move, and can simply walk back through a wall.
- Photo Visors require you to remain still to get the bonus. I've only just started playing around with them, but they're on Tesla Immortals who will be on Overwatch. Anytime my Gauss guys go on Overwatch, my opponent just avoids line of sight. If he has to cross from one building to another, then we have to take an Init test to even be able to shoot, and you can guess how that goes.
- Adding more models is the way to go. We'll have to spend a Cache to get anything other than a Gunless Warrior. For the points I'd rather get an Immortal, since the Warrior statline doesn't change on promotion.
Current Armies
40k: 15k of Unplayable Necrons
(I miss 7th!)
30k: Imperial Fists
(project for 2025)
Weren't Deathmarks supposed to be pretty good in SW:A?
Would it be worth trying to integrate one into a beginning list, or wait until you have more resources?
The Deathmarks have been great for the games where opponents haven't played them. Once your opponent figures out how to deal with them, it's no big deal.
- You have to deploy within 8" of the target, so your opponent will just put him in a corner.
- You still have to shoot the closest target, so if you manage to pick a key target, he can just put models in the way.
- It's not hard to force the Deathmark into a position where it can't shoot by setting up Overwatch. If you get hit at all on Overwatch, you're pinned and have lost the surprise factor.
- It's a single shot weapon and it's the weakest of the weapons for a 'specialist'. My opponents have already figured out to run another model within 2" of the Target. If you only manage to pin the target, which so far has been easier than actually taking them down, they can simply roll to escape pinning.
Even in the best situation of getting into a position, surviving Overwatch, and actually taking your target 'Down', you've got this model out that is very easily shot back at, or worse, charged. I believe the idea was to pop out, take out a key model, and then clean up with the rest of the army. After a few games in, they're lucky if they manage to hit something. In the one game where I've had him take down his target and survive to participate, his weapon is only 18".
They are great, but most I'd run on starting lists is 1, since it will still force your opponent to commit models to dealing with the Deathmark. We've got a few players who have hit their 10 model teams, and they just don't really care anymore. You should definitely add at least one later on, as some skill advances could really help out, but I'd wait until you got some advances on the Immortals for a stronger team.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Yeah I'd probably try and do a list with the Appointed Immortal, 3 Immortals, and a Deathmark. Is that doable?
That's what I've been running for 1 off games, and it's a great start.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/15 18:23:25
Current Armies
40k: 15k of Unplayable Necrons
(I miss 7th!)
30k: Imperial Fists
(project for 2025)
What does that list look like? I'm new to this thing. Would it be an appointed with a Blaster, 3 Immortals with a Blaster, and then the Deathmark with the rifle I forget the name of?
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
You have exactly 30pts leftover for a variety of preferences. The Tesla Immortals are pretty useful in the game with Sustained Fire. Haven't tried it, since I've already built my models specifically for SWA, but an all Tesla Starter isn't a bad start. I'll probably be adding 2 more down the road depending on how playtesting the Warriors goes. I initially ran Phase Shifters on the Tesla Immortals to start out with, but at the suggestion of another Cron player, I've been playing around with Photo-visors on them. They've been pretty good placing one on Overwatch while the other moves into position. Next turn the one that moved goes on Overwatch while the other moves.
I also used that 30 points to put a Shadowloom on the Deathmark, which worked well enough to get him to do his thing. (Standard Overwatch will be at a -2 to hit with it) I see it being a pretty good combo, especially if you start getting some skills involved. It's a preference, as more often than not, all I managed to do was pin the target, he escapes, and it's a dead Deathmark anyways. I don't want to sound down on the DM's but when Gauss is re-rolling to wound, it's a preference to invest in the Immortals.
* My original list runs a 5th Immortal with Gauss/Phase Shifter instead of the Deathmark. I didn't build my first kit with any Deathmarks. When I saw one in action I split a box and built 2 DM's. Now that I'm quite a few games in, I'm back to 'meh'. I will probably go back to that as a Starter, and pick up a Deathmark after the game, unless i'm lucky and can get 2 Warriors.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/04/15 19:30:23
Current Armies
40k: 15k of Unplayable Necrons
(I miss 7th!)
30k: Imperial Fists
(project for 2025)
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Now is Tesla actually good to have around or is it just that much cheaper? All my Tesla Immortals went missing...
Tesla is actually 5 pts more. (and it's always been good to have around!).
Here is my best explanation, pick your poison.
The Long Version:
Spoiler:
Two Reasons:
1 - Sustained Fire. Each Tesla will fire D3 times. While Random, the opportunity to get multiple shots off at the target is handy to have when comparing it Gauss. Gauss leaves you happy when you manage to land that single hit. When you need to absolutely pin a target, take out Multi-wound models, fire at groups of targets, or just Overwatch, the Tesla becomes a bit more reliable. The biggest reason Tesla is handy ties into this, and it's reason 2.
2- When any model takes a hit (and fail their save), they take a Flesh Wound on the roll of 1. If they go down, then they get to roll at the end of each of their turns to try and get that roll of a '1' for a flesh wound and get back in the fight. Necrons are awesome, because on that recovery roll, we get that Flesh Wound on a 1-3. There is a HUGE drawback to this though, and that is the stacking -1 BS/WS (to a minimum of 1) for each time it happens. So after a few flesh wounds, your Gauss Immortals single shot is going to become less common. You're going to have the same chance to hit with the Tesla, but at least you're going to get more chances at terrible shots.
TLR
Get Two, and you'll be able to remain a threat in the game long enough for your opponent to fail his Bottle Test before you fail yours.
-----
Majority of my games have been won by using the Gauss to just get him down 25% and waiting for him to fail. After that they're pretty much hobbling around at BS1 trying desperately to avoid CC. The Tesla Immortals have been great at covering their retreat, and even after a flesh wound or two, still manage to land a pinning hit.
Current Armies
40k: 15k of Unplayable Necrons
(I miss 7th!)
30k: Imperial Fists
(project for 2025)
Hmm yea I was wondering what the advantage of tesla is over gauss, the sustained fire just didn't seem to have enough of an edge over the higher quality shot of the gauss, but this makes much sense now.
Luckily I have both, swapping more tesla in now
How frustrating is it that immortals are 110 points base, expensive to add more in considering we lose the excess points.
Klowny wrote: How frustrating is it that immortals are 110 points base, expensive to add more in considering we lose the excess points.
We still get to add Weapons and Gear when we recruit. We just can't swap any gear when we recruit. I think the restrictions on guns being limited to models and the limited gear options will prevent us from choosing the Rearm option vey often when compared to the other armies. Even when we do, we could just as easily buy the gear instead of moving it around.
An Immortal with Gauss, Phase Shifter and Photo Visor comes to 200 even. Tesla and Phase or Photo comes to 190, so the lost points isn't that big of a deal when you look at it. There are some armies that can only add certain models if they manage to land a scenario bonus of 100 points and spend the Cache. Puts us kind of in the middle, we're only adding one model, but we aren't dependent on the stars aligning to replace one either.
I think this is where Warriors frustrate me the most to be honest. We have to spend the Cache to be able to equip a Warrior. It gives us more points to add more gear like a Shadowloom or even play around with MSS so that we don't waste the excess points. The gear has to go on a recruit until we rearm, when we could've just rearmed and put the gear on the other models in the first place. After all of that though, you've got a Recruit that has to survive 3 games before it can advance, is stuck being a Warrior with Gauss Flayer and 4+ save, and takes up a slot on the roster.
While it's still early, I can only see Warriors being taken in 2 Different situations. One, you spend the Cache to put two Gunless Warriors on the roster with the intent to Rearm after the next game, and just keep then out of the fight so they can gain the advance. This is what I'm going to try next time around while we're still at a point where the starting team doesn't need the help. Second would be winning a scenario where we get the bonus 100 points. Spending the Cache in this instance will land us two Warriors with Guns and Phase for 290 points.
While I am going to play around with it, I still think having the Immortals with the better Gun, better save, and ability to get advances a faster, more efficient option.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/16 10:19:02
Current Armies
40k: 15k of Unplayable Necrons
(I miss 7th!)
30k: Imperial Fists
(project for 2025)
Klowny wrote: How frustrating is it that immortals are 110 points base, expensive to add more in considering we lose the excess points.
We still get to add Weapons and Gear when we recruit. We just can't swap any gear when we recruit. I think the restrictions on guns being limited to models and the limited gear options will prevent us from choosing the Rearm option vey often when compared to the other armies. Even when we do, we could just as easily buy the gear instead of moving it around.
An Immortal with Gauss, Phase Shifter and Photo Visor comes to 200 even. Tesla and Phase or Photo comes to 190, so the lost points isn't that big of a deal when you look at it. There are some armies that can only add certain models if they manage to land a scenario bonus of 100 points and spend the Cache. Puts us kind of in the middle, we're only adding one model, but we aren't dependent on the stars aligning to replace one either.
I think this is where Warriors frustrate me the most to be honest. We have to spend the Cache to be able to equip a Warrior. It gives us more points to add more gear like a Shadowloom or even play around with MSS so that we don't waste the excess points. The gear has to go on a recruit until we rearm, when we could've just rearmed and put the gear on the other models in the first place. After all of that though, you've got a Recruit that has to survive 3 games before it can advance, is stuck being a Warrior with Gauss Flayer and 4+ save, and takes up a slot on the roster.
While it's still early, I can only see Warriors being taken in 2 Different situations. One, you spend the Cache to put two Gunless Warriors on the roster with the intent to Rearm after the next game, and just keep then out of the fight so they can gain the advance. This is what I'm going to try next time around while we're still at a point where the starting team doesn't need the help. Second would be winning a scenario where we get the bonus 100 points. Spending the Cache in this instance will land us two Warriors with Guns and Phase for 290 points.
While I am going to play around with it, I still think having the Immortals with the better Gun, better save, and ability to get advances a faster, more efficient option.
Ah ok, I dont have the proper rulebook yet, just the dodgy online copy. I was under the assumption you could only recruit or rearm, I didnt realise that when you recruit you can purchase the models weapons aswell! Makes it a lot more palatable spending the promethium.
Instead of recruiting two warriors, another way to do it is to do the same concept of just having two weaponless models for a game and then arm them next game, but recruit an immortal and warrior. thats 190 points, then next game deck them out. You get a better chassis and weaponry options instead of two warriors, so only losing 10 points instead of 40
Klowny wrote: Instead of recruiting two warriors, another way to do it is to do the same concept of just having two weaponless models for a game and then arm them next game, but recruit an immortal and warrior. thats 190 points, then next game deck them out. You get a better chassis and weaponry options instead of two warriors, so only losing 10 points instead of 40
This is something that crossed my mind as well, and I think it's a personal preference if you choose to do this. You'd have to be sure that no points are wasted when you go to Rearm, which I haven't done. Main reason I'm not looking at doing it is because unlike Warriors, Immortals don't need to have their recruit status removed, so it's not important if they're standing at the end of the game or not. For me, I'd rather have that Immortal participating rather than just hiding. That's my 2 bits worth so you can make up your own mind.
I think the tougher call is the question about size. Several armies don't have a min-max listed. While 3 min is covered in the book, it just seems odd that some armies would have a cap and others to not have a cap. Assuming we're stuck with the 3-10, then those Warrior slots might hurt you late campaign. I can't seem to find it in my book, so not sure if I'm genuinely missing it or it's not there. Just a thought.
Current Armies
40k: 15k of Unplayable Necrons
(I miss 7th!)
30k: Imperial Fists
(project for 2025)
Klowny wrote: Instead of recruiting two warriors, another way to do it is to do the same concept of just having two weaponless models for a game and then arm them next game, but recruit an immortal and warrior. thats 190 points, then next game deck them out. You get a better chassis and weaponry options instead of two warriors, so only losing 10 points instead of 40
This is something that crossed my mind as well, and I think it's a personal preference if you choose to do this. You'd have to be sure that no points are wasted when you go to Rearm, which I haven't done. Main reason I'm not looking at doing it is because unlike Warriors, Immortals don't need to have their recruit status removed, so it's not important if they're standing at the end of the game or not. For me, I'd rather have that Immortal participating rather than just hiding. That's my 2 bits worth so you can make up your own mind.
I think the tougher call is the question about size. Several armies don't have a min-max listed. While 3 min is covered in the book, it just seems odd that some armies would have a cap and others to not have a cap. Assuming we're stuck with the 3-10, then those Warrior slots might hurt you late campaign. I can't seem to find it in my book, so not sure if I'm genuinely missing it or it's not there. Just a thought.
Hmm you make a good point about the immortals not doing anything for a game vs the warriors.
Yea I had the same question, I can't find anything limiting our size either
But their firepower seems so lacklustre given the size of the gun platform they are on.
Maybe if they could take a twin linked HGC, or as been stated many times, skyfire
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ran my star/pylon list today, went up against an IG/AdMech list.
1 pylon gave up first blood (took a whole armies worth of shooting though)
My deathstar was the star of the show, made its points back +110 extra. Killed cawl, 2 IG squads, 2x wyvers, 1x baneblade and 3 grav robots. Put in woooork. I didn't run phase shifters on most of the IC's and instead bumped up the lychguard numbers to 10.
Had he not had a large blast D template in his army, it would still have been at near full strength. The biggest problem with a star that big is mishaps. I was terrified of doing it, and nearly did.
Cawl is a monster. My voidreaper got killed off to the baneblade (failed 2+ LoS's this is why we need phase shifters!!!!) so he spent 4 rounds of combat not taking any damage. He couldn't do anything either but would. not. take. wounds. Luckily I managed to get him to fail a wound, then fail a leadership test, and then had to be removed as he was surrounded. After that my star (heavily weakened by this stage, 5 lych, orikan, zandrekh, obryn, D/Lord left) mulched everything it touched after that.
As he was more or less a static gun line I didn't get to see how much damage my pylons can put out. Putting them in a star and blinking it foward would have helped, but then again it would have put them into LoS of the baneblade, meaning a very swift death.
We also ran an Eternal War mission, which limited Zandrekh's special abilities. I wanted to use him as a tank, but then took him as my warlord so he could choose abilites.
He is a good tank, but I should have made someone else my warlord, crusader helped a bit, but not enough to limit the fact that I was scared to tank too much with him.
TBH Obryn is a good enough tank, with Orikan his 2+ is very tough, and any ap2 weapons you can just LoS to the lychguard. Another warscythe instead of zandrekh would have helped heaps more.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/18 08:21:42
So the SWA page seems to have mixed results on our effectiveness. I haven't had a chance to play much of anything asides that one game recently, uni is pretty full on lately.
Are deathmarks really worth investing in? By the sounds of it unless they kill the thing they drop in to shoot, they can be sitting ducks. A sneaky tactic I've seen someone play is just equipping them with a MSS, and since the MSS nor the Etheral Interception needs LoS to work, you drop them into cover, away from harm, and try and control the opponents specialist.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/21 04:55:32
Klowny wrote: A sneaky tactic I've seen someone play is just equipping them with a MSS, and since the MSS nor the Etheral Interception needs LoS to work, you drop them into cover, away from harm, and try and control the opponents specialist.
that is sneaky, how did it work out? Because I really want to figure out a way to make a DM or two useful in my team
Klowny wrote: A sneaky tactic I've seen someone play is just equipping them with a MSS, and since the MSS nor the Etheral Interception needs LoS to work, you drop them into cover, away from harm, and try and control the opponents specialist.
that is sneaky, how did it work out? Because I really want to figure out a way to make a DM or two useful in my team
Not sure my friend, saw it on the FB page for SW:A, in a post about the effectiveness of our necrons. Not sure how effective it is, but worth a shot at least? Otherwise I just cant see (havent played yet so this is all theorycrafting atm) why you would take a deathmark over an immortal. Their guns are so much better.
So, what, just Immortals?
A group of all the same guys?
That's a little boring...
(damn, there goes my hope of having a bunch of Deathmarks in my squad)
Deathmarks are good because they deploy T2 within 8" of the choose model you picked. Immortals weapons are better and stronger but the deathmark does have the advantage of T2 deployment.
If done correctly you could take out the most "dangerous" target with deathmark then have your 3-4 Immortals take out anything else or use the MSS tactic.
I like placing my deathmarks as high as possible to the model I deploying it with. Just so I have higher ground, out of my enemys other models gun range and LoS and can (hopefully) only be targeted by the 1 enemy I deployed to if they are able to get back up.
You could try MSS Deathmarks. Deploy T2 behind cover, try take over the best model you can. And then go shooty from T3 onwards.
Oh yea, I'm not sure myself as I haven't playtestd it, wanted an idea from people who have played it to get an idea of how we feel in general in the game.
GW have offically announced 8th Edition with a FaQ about the new edit.
All the armies will work
All the current models will work
New starter box (and maybe a new army) are on the way but thats on the downlow atm.
"Core" rules will be free to everyone via internet, warhammer app etc while the "fluff" and other parts of the game will be available to buy for people who want more then just the core rules.
Current codexs are going to be useless when the new edit drops. Completly new rules to older 40K editions.
No release date yet but they have said it will be out this year and to expect new information every week or 2 till it is released.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/22 13:50:43
Yes, we can use everything that's currently for sale, but without knowing what changes will effect we might not want to use half our army anymore (they damn well better not make Destroyers suck. We FINALLY got them good, please don't take that away from us)
skoffs wrote: Yes, we can use everything that's currently for sale, but without knowing what changes will effect we might not want to use half our army anymore (they damn well better not make Destroyers suck. We FINALLY got them good, please don't take that away from us)
They were pretty cool in 4th edition but yeah I'm content with the current version.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Should be exciting. I am also a bit nervous because my army is pretty spammy, but as long as necrons as a whole stay competitive it should be okay. I hope they keep the Decurion and the whole way that the army assembles similar. I know a lot of people hate it but I think it's really cool thematically. Hopefully Monoliths get a boost because I want to paint one of those.
Necrons
Imperial Knights
Orcs and Goblins
Tomb Kings
Wood Elves
High Elves
Apparently they've said that even the smallest of vehicles will have 10+ wounds (instead of AV) and that all anti vehicle weaponry will change to take off multiple wounds. If that's the case I feel the monolith will have lots and lots of wounds, might make it useful again.
I'm also hoping the DA's become good, a s10 ap1 pie plate does do a lot of work, it just dies too quickly. Open tipped an ap2 means it blows up on the reg. If they're taking away the Explodes! Result I will be a happy Chappy.
I really wish we could mix lychguard weaponry, having a couple of shields up front and a couple of warscythes woutd be awesome. Make a lychstar (even at small numbers) alot more scary
374th Mechanized 195pts 
R
12,000 
Necrons
Imperial Knights
Orcs and Goblins
Tomb Kings
Wood Elves
High Elves