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OgreChubbs wrote:
Hello.

The Bretonnian campaign is by far the hardest with out any mods or cheating by loading previous saves.

I played it on very had and it took me at least 6 trys to win mostly due to the chivalry and end game needing to march to the top right of the map.

The best I can tell you unless you do the auto save cheat is have one elite army confederate only if someone is picking a fight with the elves to stop it or you will be involved. Then have a peasant army to save your country from beasmen.

Then send your elites to help empire use empire as a buffer for chaos once they are done take over their land and march north if you can.

I only played on hard rather than very hard, but you don't have to march to the top right of the map (which would be a pain in the arse due to all the attrition) you can just sail around the sea to avoid the attrition, or if you set your errantry war vs the greenskins you go to the badlands instead.

There was supposed to be a beastmen invasion at some point, yeah? I might have gotten lucky with that one because as I was marching south to pick a fight with some orcs with a couple of armies when some full beastmen stacks showed up, but I was in just the right place to steamroll over them.

What did you find difficult about Chivalry? I found the game gave out Chivalry like candy, the only awkward one was due to the poor economy I often wanted to sack cities which would give -30 and lots of money, so instead you have to raze them to get +30 but no money.

Anybody else think single battle multiplayer battles are super broken in this game? I only played like 4 times but people can take just about anything and costs for units are way out of whack. Basically it turns into a ****ing monster mash. You'll see stupid stuff like 4 dragons/carnosaurs per person with characters on dragons and most mid-tier units just can't compete. It just tends to scare skaven off the field so much that you need abominations just to handle these things. Seriously they stomp through battle lines. It seems more like jurassic park when fighting lizardmen than an actual balanced list like the tabletop (or at least semi-balanced lists) and while interesting and funny that does not equal good or balanced gameplay. Basically if you don't have monsters fighting back you'll just lose. There's nothing you can do about it.

Oh and spamming net of amyntok is stupid strong. Seriously as far as spells go it's top tier good. Maybe i should see if i can spam howling warpgale but it seems to last a short time and it only works on flying units. Good vs elves but not vs anything else.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
It seems more like jurassic park when fighting lizardmen than an actual balanced list like the tabletop (or at least semi-balanced lists) and while interesting and funny that does not equal good or balanced gameplay. Basically if you don't have monsters fighting back you'll just lose. There's nothing you can do about it.

I haven't played much multiplayer but looking at some youtubers playing it, it seems vs lizardmen you take poison wind globes, warp lightning and halberd stormvermin so if they go dino heavy you can take them down easier, but those units still do decently well against the lizard infantry so if they don't go jurassic park you aren't screwed.

Taking big stuff yourself vs lizardmen you have to be careful, those Carnosaurs are basically built to chew through large targets.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
There was supposed to be a beastmen invasion at some point, yeah?

The Brayherd of Chaos is supposed to show up during the Chaos invasion. But they frequently get lost before reaching anywhere important, unlike the other Chaos factions.

It doesn't help that the Beastmen unit roster starts with bottom tier units and then ends at mid tier. They get slaughtered by the autoresolver imo and never constitute a significant threat past early game unless ambushing a smaller force.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
It seems more like jurassic park when fighting lizardmen than an actual balanced list like the tabletop (or at least semi-balanced lists) and while interesting and funny that does not equal good or balanced gameplay. Basically if you don't have monsters fighting back you'll just lose. There's nothing you can do about it.

I haven't played much multiplayer but looking at some youtubers playing it, it seems vs lizardmen you take poison wind globes, warp lightning and halberd stormvermin so if they go dino heavy you can take them down easier, but those units still do decently well against the lizard infantry so if they don't go jurassic park you aren't screwed.

This is especially true for Queek. If you aren't taking lots of halberd stormvermin as Queek, you're playing Queek wrong.

I had sword and shield stormvermin with poisoned wind globadiers though. The unit size was down to 40 men per unit and the big dinos just broke through most of the lines. I've fought lizardmen and handled them fairly well but he had like 4 carnosaurs in this single multiplayer battle. Basically he broke through the lines and attacked my basic globadiers right away to which they all became worthless in an instant.

I also wasn't talking about campaign but rather the single multiplayer battles which are much different as you don't have upkeep bonuses or anything like that. The unit prices are way out of whack and reward monster spamming.

 Ashiraya wrote:
The unifier tree is worth it. The improved campaign benefits like reduced upkeep continue to scale as your empire grows whereas the buffs to Tyrion mostly just affect his own stats.

In the long run you'll be able to start affording a new strong army entirely and not even Tyrion's incredible combat buffs can compensate for that utility.

The public order penalties also slow down conquest further.

Yeah but I'm not looking to optimise. Tyrion as a ludicrous death god who can one hit kill a bunch of enemy characters is gold. And the strategy level game is more fun when happiness and stuff like that has to be considered a little more.


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 Ashiraya wrote:
I usually don't go for lightning strike (except for horde armies who badly need it to compete with fortified factions). It is often buried too deep in the tree and unit buffs are too strong to neglect.

I don't go for lightning strike because it's more fun to take on multiple enemy armies at one time. Because the AI is stupid things can get to be really chaotic fun when the AI is disorganised but way more powerful.

The moment I went from liking the Total War Warhammer games to loving them was in a massed battle. Lightning strike wouldn't have mattered because I was aiding my dwarf ally who got attacked. He was got mobbed by two full stack Chaos armies, Kholek and a generic other Lord. The Dwarf army was pretty decent but the AI was stupid so he was getting mobbed. Meanwhile I was dashing to the fight with Franz and Volkmar's armies, Franz on Deathclaw went and took out his Helcannons, while Volkmar through himself in to keep the Dwarf line in the fight. Against Kholek and a pair of giants Volkmar held on as long as he could while both sides piled more troops in to a huge blob, and my missile troops and steam tanks poured fire on Kholek and the giants. Franz raced back in time to finish off the last giant, just as the chaos army mass routed. It was too late for Volkmar though.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I had sword and shield stormvermin with poisoned wind globadiers though.

...

I also wasn't talking about campaign but rather the single multiplayer battles which are much different as you don't have upkeep bonuses or anything like that. The unit prices are way out of whack and reward monster spamming.

Yeah I was talking about multi as well.

The halberds are the important part. Sword/shield stormvermin are weapon strength 25/9 regular/armour piercing, the halberds are 9/18/15 regular/armour piercing/anti-large. Lizardmen dinos are both large and have decent armour (95 for Feral and 100 for mounted Carnies) so both those things are important. Test it vs the AI, the halberd armed ones will reliably and quickly take down an Oldblood on a Carny losing less than half the regiment, the sword/shield variety might still win but the regiment will be completely destroyed in the process and it'll take a long time (meaning they'll probably just walk away before you do serious damage).

Remember Feral Carnies cost as much as a unit of Stormvermin and a unit of poison globadiers combined and a Scar vet or Oldblood Carny costs even more, so if they charge through your Stormvermin and start chowing down on the globadiers and you have to turn the stormies around to keep attacking the Carny, you haven't really lost anything money wise (as in, you should be able to make it up elsewhere on the battlefield). Keep the halberd armed stormies near the globadiers so that if they want to attack your globadiers they'll have to also fight the stormies and if they ignore the globadiers you can hit them with those armour piercing/anti large missiles.

The halberd armed stormies also aren't bad against Saurus (in case the Lizard player decides not to bring dinos), Saurus have 60 armour which places them somewhere between the unarmoured and heavily armoured troops in other armies. The shield stormies are better against skinks, but halberd or shield should be fine for dealing with the skinks.

From what I've seen, if you want to be competitive in multi you absolutely have to tailor vs the army you're playing and against Lizards that means a healthy dose of anti-large and anti-armour.

Pretty excited to have the release date for Mortal Empires! Oct 26.

I think I'll stop playing so as not to burn myself out on Total War.

Announcement:

Mortal Empires will be released and available to download on 26th October 2017! Yes, that’s just next week. Happy Tuesday-Newsday!

We're also currently planning for Blood & Gore to be released along with the Mortal Empires campaign. Don't forget, if you already own it for WH1, you will not need to buy it again for WH2.

Can’t wait until then? If you’re going to TwitchCon, we’ll be there with the Mortal Empires campaign, giving you chance to get hands on with it. Or if you can’t make that, tune in to tomorrow’s livestream at 3PM BST, which will see some CA employees taking on Old World and New World Free For All battles!

Hopefully that’s more(tal) than enough information for you…

yey!

I look forward to being able to march my Lizardmen all the way to the Chaos Wastes and smack some three eye'd jerk around a bit

 LordofHats wrote:
yey!

I look forward to being able to march my Lizardmen all the way to the Chaos Wastes and smack some three eye'd jerk around a bit

I'm taking Skarsnik to Ulthuan, Grom the Paunch style.

@FKM, are you talking about the 2v2 games we played against the computer? I'm actualy almost suprised to hear that Skaven get anti-large infantry. I thought that you never brought any because you couldn't. At least it kept my Phoenix Guard units employed.

 emptyhat wrote:
@FKM, are you talking about the 2v2 games we played against the computer? I'm actualy almost suprised to hear that Skaven get anti-large infantry. I thought that you never brought any because you couldn't. At least it kept my Phoenix Guard units employed.

Yes i am.

We do but in TWW1 halberd infantry on fairly basic dudes generally wasn't enough for some of the monstrous infantry or large creatures (at least for empire). Which is why demigryph cavalry were often needed to finish the job.

I suppose the reason why i didn't use halberds on stormvermin is because i was afraid of saurus heavy armies (which i had fought most of the campaign). However currently in my campaign all the lizardmen have been dead a while and i'm only really fighting dark elves with their leadership de-buffs to enemies or something. Finding howling warpgale to be sorely needed against them. Perhaps i should take more wizards with ruin spells for that.

To be fair sword and shield stormvermin also get their shields which makes them a bit more durable. Course now that i'm fighting mostly elves the sword and shield route is mostly just better right now.

 emptyhat wrote:
@FKM, are you talking about the 2v2 games we played against the computer? I'm actualy almost suprised to hear that Skaven get anti-large infantry. I thought that you never brought any because you couldn't. At least it kept my Phoenix Guard units employed.

Skaven have a similar amount of anti-large as everyone else. All the Warhammer 2 armies have a high armour halberd armed elite infantry unit (Temple Guard, Black Guard of Naggarond, Pheonix Guard and Skaven have their Stormvermin) that are pretty much purpose built to take on Lizardmen dinos because they're both anti large and anti armour. Lizard Dinos range from 95 to 140 armour which puts them up there with the most heavily armoured units in the game. EDIT: Actually after checking Stegadons and Bastilidons at 140 are tied for being the most heavily armoured units in Warhammer 2, the next closest being the DE Dread Knights at 120.

Skaven also have their Warp Lightning cannon but I think this might be a bit of gamble against Lizards unless you plan to play defensively. Carnosaurs are fast (75 speed makes them about as fast as a heavy cav unit) and due to their large mass they can basically walk straight through infantry units and target whatever they want, so they can charge straight through and take out the warp lightning cannons early on. If you play defensively then your warp lightning cannons won't be sitting by themselves so you can protect them somewhat, but if you play offensively you risk the Carnies just walking straight through and taking them out. Stegadons aren't quite as fast but are also capable of just walking straight through enemy units.

There is an unwritten stat that relates to the unit's weight that determines how well it can either resist being knocked back or knock back other units to wade through them, Lizardmen dinos are all very heavy in that regard making them hard to pin down. I guess it makes sense, as big as a dragon might be it's still a flyer, so it can't be too heavy.

Skaven don't have any anti large cavalry like most armies do, because, well, they don't have any cavalry to begin with But they make up for it by having one of the few missile infantry anti large units in globadiers. Globadiers are absolutely deadly against Lizard monsters but because they can't fight in hand to hand they need some support.


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 flamingkillamajig wrote:
To be fair sword and shield stormvermin also get their shields which makes them a bit more durable. Course now that i'm fighting mostly elves the sword and shield route is mostly just better right now.

Yeah Stormies are best when you think you have a good chance of fighting large units. Granted cavalry is also large, so if you think elves might bring cavalry and/or dragons a few halberd armed stormies mixed in wouldn't hurt.

Against infantry sword/shield is obviously better, though if they bring heavy armoured infantry (white lions, swordmasters or pheonix guard) then halberds aren't terrible.

Well I have almost completed my very first campaign. They really made very hard feel like very hard. The human (elf) wave tactics of the AI left me less than impressed. Having 3-4 stacks of nothing but Black Guard(?)/Phoenix Guard plus assortment of dragons turn up every 5 turns is nothing but boring. Sadly Lizardmen autoresolve won't let a lvl 40 lord win from a lvl 10 elf lord, because balanced stacks be damned! Although the extra upkeep really presents a tough challenge when you can afford 5 stacks versus their 20 with the same amount of settlements. Absolutely crazy, but fun none the less.

Bring on the Mortal Empires! I'm fatigued of only seeing dead elves everywhere.

This is the datamined map for Mortal Empires. Beware it's enormous.

Hmm the south part of the map has been extended quite a bit then. I wonder how long it will take to conquer the whole thing!

Its a shame they cut off so much of the Southlands and Lustria. Between Skrolk, Mazdamundi, Kroq, new Lizard/Skaven Lords, four TK lords and possibly Araby lords its going to get really cramped down there.

Will the mortal empires campaign drop the minor factions, given there's now so many major factions?

I ask in hope basically, because I'm getting really bored of the early stage confederation stage. Especially in my current game because despite other HE factions having scores over 100, and pushing 200 with me, only one has joined.

I want my next game to be on Mortal Empires, prob as Lizardmen, and I'm hoping I won't have to sink a stupid number of turns in to pressing that Confederation button every single turn.

My Kroq Gar campaign I got sick of trying to confederate with the other Lizards so I just rolled over them, taking their lands by force.

My Mazdamundi campaign I went down the confederation route and it was just a pain in the arse, took them ages before they finally confederated with me, some of them only bothered to confederate if they were about to be wiped out, so immediately after confederating I had to send armies to defend them.

 sebster wrote:
Will the mortal empires campaign drop the minor factions, given there's now so many major factions?

I ask in hope basically, because I'm getting really bored of the early stage confederation stage. Especially in my current game because despite other HE factions having scores over 100, and pushing 200 with me, only one has joined.

I want my next game to be on Mortal Empires, prob as Lizardmen, and I'm hoping I won't have to sink a stupid number of turns in to pressing that Confederation button every single turn.

No. There will be 117 factions, so I'd expect most of them to make it in.

 djones520 wrote:

 sebster wrote:
Will the mortal empires campaign drop the minor factions, given there's now so many major factions?

I ask in hope basically, because I'm getting really bored of the early stage confederation stage. Especially in my current game because despite other HE factions having scores over 100, and pushing 200 with me, only one has joined.

I want my next game to be on Mortal Empires, prob as Lizardmen, and I'm hoping I won't have to sink a stupid number of turns in to pressing that Confederation button every single turn.

No. There will be 117 factions, so I'd expect most of them to make it in.

To add, the Old World campaign map is as good as a one for one copy from game 1 by the looks of it. So most minor factions from game 1 will have survived if they haven't been displaced by legendary lords or used to give a full province starting position.

However it looks like about half of the Lizardmen minor factions will be axed due to the cut-off.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 sebster wrote:
Will the mortal empires campaign drop the minor factions, given there's now so many major factions?

I ask in hope basically, because I'm getting really bored of the early stage confederation stage. Especially in my current game because despite other HE factions having scores over 100, and pushing 200 with me, only one has joined.

I want my next game to be on Mortal Empires, prob as Lizardmen, and I'm hoping I won't have to sink a stupid number of turns in to pressing that Confederation button every single turn.

No. There will be 117 factions, so I'd expect most of them to make it in.

To add, the Old World campaign map is as good as a one for one copy from game 1 by the looks of it. So most minor factions from game 1 will have survived if they haven't been displaced by legendary lords or used to give a full province starting position.

However it looks like about half of the Lizardmen minor factions will be axed due to the cut-off.

They've stated legendary lords will have the same starting position as they do in their original games. So, there shouldn't be any factions being displaced for a new starting point.

 djones520 wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 sebster wrote:
Will the mortal empires campaign drop the minor factions, given there's now so many major factions?

I ask in hope basically, because I'm getting really bored of the early stage confederation stage. Especially in my current game because despite other HE factions having scores over 100, and pushing 200 with me, only one has joined.

I want my next game to be on Mortal Empires, prob as Lizardmen, and I'm hoping I won't have to sink a stupid number of turns in to pressing that Confederation button every single turn.

No. There will be 117 factions, so I'd expect most of them to make it in.

To add, the Old World campaign map is as good as a one for one copy from game 1 by the looks of it. So most minor factions from game 1 will have survived if they haven't been displaced by legendary lords or used to give a full province starting position.

However it looks like about half of the Lizardmen minor factions will be axed due to the cut-off.

They've stated legendary lords will have the same starting position as they do in their original games. So, there shouldn't be any factions being displaced for a new starting point.

All of them though? Teclis (Turtle Isles) starts in a place that no longer exists in the combined map as it is being shown around online, same as Queek (Southern Jungles) and Skrolk (The Lost Valley).

Teclis and Queek have been confirmed to start in different locations (Queek will be in the Old World, iirc). I posted about it earlier.

Those were the only two lords stated to start somewhere else.

From what I've heard Queek will be starting in the Badlands near the Top Knotz.

Kroq Gar has no real lore based reason to be in the Southlands, at least from my understanding. Isn't he the leader of Hexoatl's army (ie. northern most part of Lustria)? In Warhammer 2 the reason he's in the Southlands is because Mazdamundi told him to go there (which makes it annoyingly funny when you want to confederate with him but he refuses).

It will be sad if most of Lustria and the Southlands are cut off though. I guess you don't technically *need* them though, Mazdamundi and Kroq can both start in northern Lustria.

His starting position is still on the Mortal Empire's map, and no one said he was being moved. I'm willing to buy into the "he's there cause his boss told him to be" reasoning.

 nels1031 wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
yey!

I look forward to being able to march my Lizardmen all the way to the Chaos Wastes and smack some three eye'd jerk around a bit

I'm taking Skarsnik to Ulthuan, Grom the Paunch style.

+1 to this.