Switch Theme:

Primaris Tactica - Tactics using just Primaris and related models  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I don't see anything rules related that says you can't run any successor army you create as a "counts as X" army. Specifically calling your army a successor army essentially only gives flaws. The only time it's a successor chapter rules-wise is if you replace the faction keyword with your successor chapter. Is there any reason not to just run it as a "counts as" army? If you can have orange Ultramarines, why not anything else?
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

Here’s a list I’ve been working on. I think it has reasonably good amounts of dakka and AT. I’m not sure what to do about dark reapers, but I don’t think anyone else is so... ho hum. Maybe they’ll be nerfed in the March FAQs in time for the tournaments in May I’m planning on bringing these to. Or maybe my Tau will have their codex by then and be good.

Battalion (3CPs)
Captain with Fist of Vengeance and Plasma Pistol 106
Librarian with Null zone and Might of Heroes 101
Intercessors 91
Intercessors 91
Intercessors 91
5 dakka aggressors 185
3 dakka Inceptors 135
5 Rapid Fire Hellblasters 165
Las repulsor 336
Las repulsor 336
Fire Raptor 362

There’s a little bit of flexibility in how I deploy. I’ll usually have the aggressors in one repulsor and the hellblasters and characters in another. I can potentially have a couple of Intercessors squads in one though if I want the aggressors on the field - which I might against serious hordes. Most likely I’d want to keep them protected though, even then.

I’ve found repulsors to be good. The -2 to charge distances makes it much harder for people to get at them from deep strike, and they tend to survive anyway. They bring a lot of guns too. The fire raptor’s in there because it’s awesome. I’ll be converting mine to have Primaris crew, like I’ve done with my Stormraven and Xiphon. So it’s kind of not a full Primaris army, but it will look like it is.

I’m not 100% sure the inceptors are a good idea, but I need something that can drop in to threaten objectives and the units like devastators and dark reapers that tend to be found sat on them. Carbine reivers might be a possible alternative but their firepower is so much less.

I’d also consider putting some reivers in a repulsor with my characters instead of the aggressors, and swapping the inceptors out for 5 more hellblasters. Overall I don’t think that’s a great idea.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/20 20:46:56


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I'd honestly keep the Inceptors. They are one of the best Primaris units out there right now. They bring a lot of firepower to the table for the unit size, and with the DS capabilities to put them where you need them.

I like the idea of Aggressors but I find them to be a little wonky. Their rules are designed that you will only ever benefit from one of their two rules a turn. You either get the double shot or you get the advance + fire without penalty. They require a delivery system and ultimately don't really contribute that much other than throwing a bunch of regular bolter shots at something. They can math someone to death, but I think Inceptors cover the same job at a better efficiency. The best use I've seen from Aggressors is to use them as Raven Guard and deploy them next to enemies using the stratagem so you can double shot turn one, but this also requires you to go first which is not reliable at all.

You may want to look at dropping the Aggressors and adding another unit of Inceptors and maybe a few more Hellblasters. You can then put the Hellblasters in a Repulsor and another squad or two of Intercessors in the other for protection. You can look at Reivers as well, but I think outside of a dedicated CC style army like Blood Angels, they are lacking a bit of bite. Again, they deal with smaller lighter infantry units in CC but Primaris don't really struggle that much with anti-infantry as it is.

You could also look into squeezing in a Lieutenant. He increases the efficiency of your units, especially the Hellblasters. Being able to reroll 1's to hit and to wound is fantastic.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/01/20 21:16:25


 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

Thanks those are some good thoughts.

I’ve also found aggressors difficult to use. Putting them in the repulsor is supposed to help with finding them out of position, which happens quite a lot. In the right situation these guys have absurd firepower, but getting them there without first getting them shot can be difficult. When they do get to fire, especially when they double fire, all sorts of things die.

So I don’t think I’ll drop them, but I do see where you’re coming from. And yeah I could stick some intercessors, maybe with a sword, in a repulsor. The annoying thing about that, and about the reivers most of all, is that it makes me wish I played blood angels instead of crimson fists. BA reivers look like they might be almost viable. You could even arguably justify using the awesome Primaris Chaplain model with them, which never seems sensible with vanilla Primaris.

It would be nice to have a lieutenant, ideally as part of something like a vanguard or spearhead detachment for the extra cp. The only way to do that would be to drop the inceptors and one of my big vehicles though. I’m not sure that would be an improvement overall. While of course the lieutenant’s reroll aura is nice, I can instead just spend the points on some other guns. Overall it works out roughly the same I think.

Dreadnoughts would be a good way of getting some more elite or heavy support units to fill out detachments. I had a look at the index weapon options and I quite like the idea of an elite one with two auto cannons and two heavy bolters. Comes in at a non-crazy 120 points. It would be a good unit to pick off scoring units and maybe finish off damaged vehicles occasionally. Overall I think the Inceptors are better though, unless there are CPs on offer.

I don’t think I’ve necessarily got a perfect list yet, but it’s getting there I think.
   
Made in au
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws






I really like Aggressors. While their rules are a little wonky, I think what they do really well is area denial and distract. If you have a unit of Aggressors watching over an objective, most players won't want to just march in front of them, so they'll try and kill them before they go, or stay back to kill more urgent threats. Either way, you've held a mid field objective for longer. They're rather cheap as well for the amount of firepower they bring, and if all else fails, their T5 means they have to put either a lot of shots into them (especially a team of 5) or dedicate a more powerful unit or two into them, which is taking heat away from your Dreadnaughts or Repulsors.
They're also pretty meaty in melee, especially for BAngels
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Mandragola wrote:

Intercessors 91
Intercessors 91
Intercessors 91
~scouts~

Battlescribe Catalog Editor - Please report bugs here http://battlescribedata.appspot.com/#/repo/wh40k 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain




On the Internet

Actually, I was about to bring up Scouts this morning as well. I've flipped through everything I can about Primaris and basically nothing says they don't follow the same codex rules about having scout companies, nor do they have anything about not following the same timeline from being chosen to receive implants to eventually being deployed on the battlefield as a full Marine.

So as far as I'm concerned, Scouts (and their transport) are a legitimate choice for Primaris only armies/chapters at least until GW says otherwise and gives us Primaris Scouts or something.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

Actually my understanding is that Primaris marines get spat out fully formed. Most of them have been in stasis for 10k years.

I read a book in which old Imperial Fists are grumbling because the new primaris guys have never been scouts - but impressed that some of them have met Rogal Dorn. Scouts weren’t a thing in the heresy era though.

Anyway I know about scouts and I prefer intercessors. I’d consider a unit of them at most. Intercessors actually do stuff.
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain




On the Internet

Mandragola wrote:
Actually my understanding is that Primaris marines get spat out fully formed. Most of them have been in stasis for 10k years.

I read a book in which old Imperial Fists are grumbling because the new primaris guys have never been scouts - but impressed that some of them have met Rogal Dorn. Scouts weren’t a thing in the heresy era though.

Anyway I know about scouts and I prefer intercessors. I’d consider a unit of them at most. Intercessors actually do stuff.

While the first Primaris were established as fully formed Marines, I disagree about all of the Primaris never being scouts. It's been over a hundred years since the Primaris were first established in the galaxy and Primaris only chapters need new recruits as they deal with casualties, and the established chapters could take scouts they have and give them the implants as part of their process to turn them into Primaris with little extra effort.

Basically at this point I'd say scouts, unless GW says otherwise, are a full part of a Primaris force.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






lol I thought this was a tactics thread. Without scouts you cede all of no man's land to deep strikers. They're the best counter to alpha legion, tyranids, blood Angels, demons, Orks, etc.

Battlescribe Catalog Editor - Please report bugs here http://battlescribedata.appspot.com/#/repo/wh40k 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

 axisofentropy wrote:
lol I thought this was a tactics thread. Without scouts you cede all of no man's land to deep strikers. They're the best counter to alpha legion, tyranids, blood Angels, demons, Orks, etc.

It’s a tactics thread about primaris marines. It’s legitimate to ask what can be used in the army.

So far I’ve managed totally fine without scouts. They are good at that job, but nothing else really. As I said, I find my repulsors make a really good defence against anyone who wants to deep strike and charge. Meanwhile I can use my intercessors to make sure there’s nowhere for the enemy to drop in my deployment zone.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

I've wondered why reivers didn't get scout deploy, they have stealth assisting armor, they have been trained in infiltration, and it would be thematic for them. I guess they left holes in primaris abilities to make certain units better for certain chapters. Like DA Hellblasters are top of the heap because of WFTDA, and raven guard reivers can use strike from the shadows for easy round 1 charges.

Necrons - 4k
Dark angels - 2k


"You know what they say about brute force, if it's not working you are not using enough of it" 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter






 Grimgold wrote:
I've wondered why reivers didn't get scout deploy, they have stealth assisting armor, they have been trained in infiltration, and it would be thematic for them. I guess they left holes in primaris abilities to make certain units better for certain chapters. Like DA Hellblasters are top of the heap because of WFTDA, and raven guard reivers can use strike from the shadows for easy round 1 charges.


They did it probably so they dont step on any toes of stuff like scouts.

Intersetors are like normal marines but are diffrent in that they have no specials options and they build more like 30k units
Hellblasters are pretty unique as a unit full of one type of special weapons (i guess kinda like sternguard but not really)
Reivers are kinda inbetween scouts and assault marines. they can buy some really cool movement abilities.
interceptors are like assault marines but focused on shooting only
and Aggressors are like centurions but focused on light weapons rather than being able to take specific heavy weapons like the grav or drill.

non of the primarus stuff are 1 to 1 in old marines.


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain




On the Internet

The way I look at it is that regular Marines are basically just Marines, but the Primaris are more like tougher, better armed Eldar. Every unit is a specialist and has to be employed effectively to get the most impact.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






What’s the best load out for Redemptor dreads? Not real keen on magnetize get and was thinking of going heavy gatling and small gatling as well as storm bolters to stay on the cheap.

I meant to add that I will most likely play Ultramarines as my wife bought me Roboute Gilliman for Christmas.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/25 00:27:56


 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






I did that double gat storm bolter loadout. it puts out a scary amount of dakka.


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

I like the heavy plasma incinerator, but then I'm dark angels so I might be biased. With OC and weapons from the dark ages. it's a little bit more effective than twin linked lascannons, and primaris marines are short on anti-vehicle weapons.

Necrons - 4k
Dark angels - 2k


"You know what they say about brute force, if it's not working you are not using enough of it" 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

 Grimgold wrote:
I like the heavy plasma incinerator, but then I'm dark angels so I might be biased. With OC and weapons from the dark ages. it's a little bit more effective than twin linked lascannons, and primaris marines are short on anti-vehicle weapons.

I suppose I can see the plasma incinerator working ok for dark angels. If it stands still it shouldn’t blow itself up.

Trouble is, even using the stratagem you’re looking at around the firepower of a quad las predator. I guess that’s just from the main gun, not counting its other Gatling cannon, storm bolters and Icarus. It’s not too bad, I suppose.

Personally I think I’d want to take a decent-sized unit of hellblasters to use the stratagem on. It would be cool to get 10 or even 20 shots boosted to 3 damage each. Meanwhile a dread with Gatling gun can move around without worrying about burning its own arm off when it shoots.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/26 19:59:44


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






I am thinking about going full gatling and back it up with Hellblasters for some wannabe anti tank.

I do have one repulsor tank with las and barebones and want to get another.

I will probably include Roboute in 2500 pt games when I get around to buying Mortarion for my Death Guard.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

You don't want all of your eggs in one basket, if hellblasters are your only anti-vehicle, then it's real easy to tie them up and make it so you can't take on vehicles. By bringing redundancy you make your opponents job harder, and it's not like the other weapons on a redemptor are bad at hordes, being 2 storm bolters and the equivalent of two heavy bolters.

My concern is that if you are short on vehicle style targets the redemptor will get focused early, which is why I'm thinking about grabbing the easy to build redemptor for a second vehicle on the the battle field.

Necrons - 4k
Dark angels - 2k


"You know what they say about brute force, if it's not working you are not using enough of it" 
   
Made in gb
Utilizing Careful Highlighting






A post Brexit Wasteland

Is the loadout on the Easy to build Redemptor Dreadnought any good? Its at a pretty hefty discount when compared to the normal kit. I'm not that concerned about wysiwyg, but it would be nice to know how good it is when its being enforced.
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






Well the main gun is a boat load of fun.

The flamer.. eh it would of been better with the extra gat.

nothing two seconds converting wont fix.

surprised it doesnt have a rocket pod on the top. so its a little cheaper.

the chest weapon works ok with the gat weapons.


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in gb
Utilizing Careful Highlighting






A post Brexit Wasteland

 Desubot wrote:
Well the main gun is a boat load of fun.

The flamer.. eh it would of been better with the extra gat.

nothing two seconds converting wont fix.

surprised it doesnt have a rocket pod on the top. so its a little cheaper.

the chest weapon works ok with the gat weapons.



Thanks for the insight!
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

The real problem with Redemptors is it's one of two vehicles a primaris only army has access to. Thus they tend to get shot off the board because they are the only worthwhile target for heavy weapons. So against a lot of opponents they won't even make it off of the starting blocks. One of the unspoken rules of 8th ed is bring enough heavy targets to keep heavy weapons busy for a few turns or don't bring them at all.

Necrons - 4k
Dark angels - 2k


"You know what they say about brute force, if it's not working you are not using enough of it" 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






 Grimgold wrote:
The real problem with Redemptors is it's one of two vehicles a primaris only army has access to. Thus they tend to get shot off the board because they are the only worthwhile target for heavy weapons. So against a lot of opponents they won't even make it off of the starting blocks. One of the unspoken rules of 8th ed is bring enough heavy targets to keep heavy weapons busy for a few turns or don't bring them at all.


Alternatively try and use more LOS Blocking terrain

they work out pretty well in a good city fight board.


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

Redemptors seem not quite right to me. The plasma gun seems a non-starter unless you like blowing up. The gat is good. But it wants to move so will very often have -1 to hit, even before it takes damage and degrades.

I think there’s a case for using one if you’ve got a couple of repulsors too. Those can carry your lascannons and it can do anti-horde, and also a bit of protection against melee.

I’d go for the proper kit. It’s got the right guns and is really fun to build - if you have the patience! The thing is incredibly poseable.
   
Made in us
Flailing Flagellant





So I know this thread has languished for a bit but I am curious if people's opinions on what Chapters to use for an all Primaris army have changed.
Here's my thoughts on the options:

Ultramarines: Guilliman plus an ok chapter tactic for shooty Primaris
Ravenguard: SftS stratagem and probably the best Chapter Tactic
(I don't have anything much to say on the other Vanilla Chapters)

Blood Angels: Chapter Tactic is good for Reivers and potentially any unit that gets into combat. A stratagem lets you redeploy Inceptors mid-game.

Dark Angels: WFTDA is amazing on Hellblasters. The Chapter Tactic is underestimated imo, if you get to stand still the reroll 1s is great for Agressors and Hellblasters (saving need for captains) and the max 1 death to morale is not bad on expensive Primaris. Azreal if you break from all Primaris.

Space Wolves: True Grit seems good for Intercessors, basically if you survive being charged you can fight twice (with better AP) for 1CP. The Outflank stratagem is good for Agressors and Hellblasters though not as good as SftS. Codex to come could help more.


Anyone have any thoughts to add or input on the above? So far I feel like 90% of the Stratagems in the codexes don't work for Primaris which makes the Vanilla book a bit unattractive.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/25 21:03:30


 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

I like Ultramarines CT the best since it’s almost like having the keyword Fly for most of your army. +1 Ld can be handy too.

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

I think that's a decent summary. It'll be interesting to see what we get with the Deathwatch and SW codexes. Deathwatch sounds like it'll have some interesting new options.

I actually think the difference between different CTs isn't as huge as all that. While it's true that none of the vanilla chapters really stands out, at the same time they aren't awful, and many of them have good stuff that you can make work.

For example I run crimson fists, and my primaris captain with the fist of vengeance is a really great beatstick for his price. With might of heroes on, and often hitting targets affected by null zone, he can do huge damage. Ignoring cover isn't a huge issue but it does always make a difference, especially against small scoring units that are left to hold objectives.

Another example is iron hands. They have quite a decent chance of saving a wound from a 2 damage weapon, which significantly improves their durability.

A downside for marines is that vehicles (other than dreads) don't get CTs. But this also means CTs matter slightly less. I field a couple of repulsors for example, so that's a big chunk of my army where my CTs are irrelevant anyway.

So the point is that you can make an ok primaris army using pretty much any CTs. There are some things that are obviously good, like say a big unit of DA plasma inceptors, but often there are other chapters that ca ndo something equally good.
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




Point for point, bolter aggressors and bolter inceptors are pretty similar. aggressors get more shots, inceptors at higher strength. what aggressors don't get, is plasma.

The aggressor rules seem counter intuitive, but the option of a 8.5 inch move on average or double shots gives them a lot of flexibility. Inceptors obviously have the freedom of deployment without spending a CP on SftS, but even without ravenguard, aggressors have a fairly decent threat range with the advance and shoot move.

What i've been finding when using pure primaris is that repulsors and redemptors die quickly because they are the only tanks available, so i've ditched them altogether. This means i'm having to rely on plasma for anti tank. fortunately, primaris can pack a LOT of plasma. SftS is key for what i'm running, despite how useful the ultras strat would be:

Brigade Detachment
HQ
primaris captain - bolt rifle, power sword
primaris lieutenant
primaris lieutenant

TROOPS
Intercessors - 5, grenade launcher
Intercessors - 5, grenade launcher
Intercessors - 5, grenade launcher
Scouts - 5, bolters
Scouts - 5, bolters
Scouts - 5, bolters

ELITES
Aggressors - 3, boltstorm
Aggressors - 3, boltstorm
Primaris Ancient OR Primaris Apothecary

FAST ATTACK
Inceptors - 3, plasma
Inceptors - 3, plasma
Inceptors - 3, plasma

HEAVY SUPPORT
Hellblasters - 5
Hellblasters - 5
Hellblasters - 5

so that's 12 CP. 6 of which gets spent on the hellblasters, captain and aggressors being deployed into midfield into the safe areas created by scouts.

Turn 1, clear chaff with aggressors, scouts and intercessors. Start hitting hard targets with hellblasters. Use the inceptors as drop and delete units. if i can leash them to the captain I will, but if they can get a bead on something worth more than their points, i'll happily sacrifice them to get the job done.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Tactics
Go to: