Switch Theme:

The 2021 State of Warmahordes Discussion Thread!  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Widowmaker






So many endings, there must be a beginning. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UfzyapyVUI

 
   
Made in us
Serious Squig Herder






 Ghool wrote:
Hungerford went to Broken Anvil Miniatures as Lead Game Designer.


Geesh - do they have anyone left who used to work there 5 years ago? All the "names" are gone now.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Schmapdi wrote:
 Ghool wrote:
Hungerford went to Broken Anvil Miniatures as Lead Game Designer.


Geesh - do they have anyone left who used to work there 5 years ago? All the "names" are gone now.


Its worrying and it doesn't look good given PPs recent history. But reflect on this.

1) Staying at the same company for 5-10 years is very very rare these days especially in the tabletop gaming industry.
2) Most of the "big names" at PP were total "no names" when they joined the company and only gained a reputation and the love of the community over time. The new staff will have the opportunity to do the same.
3) A changing of the guard can be very worrying (I am worried, for the record). But it can also be an opportunity for new ideas, new approaches, openness to new tech and concepts. I think many of us agree that PP needs to "do something" to claw back market space and players. So maybe a fresh set of eyes could help in doing this.

Another thing I have been thinking about recently is maybe just accepting that, in reality, WM/H time is just done. Though I think I still love it, its still a very old game with old mechanics and a huge back catalogue that can never really be balanced by a company with about 5 devs. Its out of step with modern trends, communities and production techniques. Maybe its time we all accept that, thank it for the memories and get behind PPs other projects and support them when they come to do the complete refresh of WM/H from the ground up as I suspect they will have to do.

Not a popular opinion I know.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Sunno wrote:


Not a popular opinion I know.


Youre not the only person that shares that opinion. I'm personally pretty sure they're only keeping it around until their other games take off. I doubt it's getting much time or interest internally at pp.

As you say, short of a massive reboot, from a business pov wmh is kind of done.


greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy

"Punch your fist in the air and hold your Gameboy aloft like the warrior you are" 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





The Iron Kingdoms themselves are probably PPs most marketable IP and the core game of Warmachine is a solid engine. The battle system, and resources are all still very unique and compelling. It's larger than the most popular games of the day and probably would benefit from a reduction in size, but I'm not sure there's anything wrong beyond the need to modernize some of its interactions (particularly with terrain).

The big thing is the game just isn't sold in a way that is remotely viable anymore. There's no entry point to speak of, too many redundant options, too many partial kits to hunt down to build the army.

They really need to relaunch the game, less in terms of rules, but in terms of products. I really liked the direction we saw at the start of Mk3 with the 0 point battlegroup boxes that could be combined with the 35 point army sets. It was a solid product but the game really didn't support it, nor did it really support the game. While there's issues with the recent Malifaux box sets, the one saving grace is the game aligns more closely to the model bundles they provide. Warmachine really needs something similar. It's at a place where how the product is sold is just too far out of date to continue.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I'd be all behind them doing a big re-launch. In fact they don't even have to break things, just copy exactly what GW does. Release a few new models and update the others with new sculpts. New battle boxes, MKIV rules or even a totally new rules system.

They could even go big with a new name - IRON KINGDOMS - and finally just merge Warmachine and Hordes. It is somewhat curious that they spread their marketing over two franchise titles and yet the two games work together almost all the time and, esp now, likely rely heavily on it to survive since neither one has pulled ahead of the other.


If I were them I'd not abandon it - they've invested a huge amount and there's no reason they can't have a resurgence if they can work toward a powerful new launch program.

A Blog in Miniature

The Swarm Arises

Do you ever notice, sometimes, there's an extra post? 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





I actually chatted with a dev about this at a con a ways back. It had mostly to do with legal requirements involving production and distribution. Deals made under specific trademarks and the like that made it cost prohibitive to change. Curious if enough of those deals have fallen apart enough to make change feasible now though.
   
Made in us
Second Story Man





Astonished of Heck

LunarSol wrote:They really need to relaunch the game, less in terms of rules, but in terms of products. I really liked the direction we saw at the start of Mk3 with the 0 point battlegroup boxes that could be combined with the 35 point army sets. It was a solid product but the game really didn't support it, nor did it really support the game. While there's issues with the recent Malifaux box sets, the one saving grace is the game aligns more closely to the model bundles they provide. Warmachine really needs something similar. It's at a place where how the product is sold is just too far out of date to continue.

25 point boxes would probably make the most sense, considering Brawlmachine and the gating of the Requisition Points. On the other hand, those boxes are only useful for those who can afford them, and not so much for those who are forced to buy at smaller scales. Two more problems come along with it. Back when they were launching the Themes, they brought out the 35 point boxes, but what came in the box was only considered "worth it" for about a year, and then nobody wanted them. What comes in the box may not be worth getting for the Steamroller crowd. Another problem is, what is 25 points today may not be 25 points next year with CID or allowable in the next Brawlmachine update.

Overread wrote:They could even go big with a new name - IRON KINGDOMS - and finally just merge Warmachine and Hordes. It is somewhat curious that they spread their marketing over two franchise titles and yet the two games work together almost all the time and, esp now, likely rely heavily on it to survive since neither one has pulled ahead of the other.

Possible, but I wonder if that would be confused with the TTRPG at this point?

LunarSol wrote:I actually chatted with a dev about this at a con a ways back. It had mostly to do with legal requirements involving production and distribution. Deals made under specific trademarks and the like that made it cost prohibitive to change. Curious if enough of those deals have fallen apart enough to make change feasible now though.

Ugg, legalities. If there was any way to mess up a situation more than by adding lawyers, politicians, and bureaucrats, I've yet to see it.

Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
Made in us
Serious Squig Herder






Sunno wrote:
Schmapdi wrote:
 Ghool wrote:
Hungerford went to Broken Anvil Miniatures as Lead Game Designer.


Geesh - do they have anyone left who used to work there 5 years ago? All the "names" are gone now.


Its worrying and it doesn't look good given PPs recent history. But reflect on this.

1) Staying at the same company for 5-10 years is very very rare these days especially in the tabletop gaming industry.
2) Most of the "big names" at PP were total "no names" when they joined the company and only gained a reputation and the love of the community over time. The new staff will have the opportunity to do the same.
3) A changing of the guard can be very worrying (I am worried, for the record). But it can also be an opportunity for new ideas, new approaches, openness to new tech and concepts. I think many of us agree that PP needs to "do something" to claw back market space and players. So maybe a fresh set of eyes could help in doing this.

Another thing I have been thinking about recently is maybe just accepting that, in reality, WM/H time is just done. Though I think I still love it, its still a very old game with old mechanics and a huge back catalogue that can never really be balanced by a company with about 5 devs. Its out of step with modern trends, communities and production techniques. Maybe its time we all accept that, thank it for the memories and get behind PPs other projects and support them when they come to do the complete refresh of WM/H from the ground up as I suspect they will have to do.

Not a popular opinion I know.


That's true - some new blood could be a really good thing for the game and help them get back on their feet - but it'd be less worrying if all the old guard hadn't left in the span of a year. That really feels like a "sinking ship" sort of deal. Plus how much will the new guard be hobbled by Matt Wilson still being in charge? How involved is he anymore, how open is he to change?

I also feel WM/H is "done" and really needs a big reboot if it's to ever thrive again - I'm hoping Warcaster is a test-bed for that. But also it's pointless if they don't switch to all plastic kits when they do so, and (ironically) - I don't think PP has the "balls" to go that route. Though they've finally embraced using Kickstarter to fund new projects - so it should be a no-brainer.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 Charistoph wrote:


Overread wrote:They could even go big with a new name - IRON KINGDOMS - and finally just merge Warmachine and Hordes. It is somewhat curious that they spread their marketing over two franchise titles and yet the two games work together almost all the time and, esp now, likely rely heavily on it to survive since neither one has pulled ahead of the other.

Possible, but I wonder if that would be confused with the TTRPG at this point?



Unlikely, GW never has a problem marketing loads of different products under Warhammer 40K or Age of Sigmar.

Iron Kingdoms just becomes the overarching title then you've got the RPG, the Wargame etc.... underneath. Mixing up a wargame with an RPG is not easy .

A Blog in Miniature

The Swarm Arises

Do you ever notice, sometimes, there's an extra post? 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





I think MK4 version with new boxes and having an official legacy mode for models made before a certain date (and allow them to be subs for certain models in official tournies) would go a long way of really addressing everything here.

I do think waiting another 2 years isn't a bad idea to let Warcaster and Riot Quest bake more is a good idea. Monsterpoc seams to be doing quite good and doesn't seam to need the resources the other two games need. Warcaster is finally getting a book out with fluff for example. That game needs those resources atm.

Also really push smaller point games so the community doesn't just gravitate to larger scale ones will help as no one likes spending as much as WMH is right now to get into it.

I will say, however, the latest round of mystery boxes really brought a lot of traffic to the Warmachine subreddit (more so then any past offering of them has) with most being new players to the game. It's pretty noticeable as how dead the subreddit usually is.

So there's some interest in the system from players and getting a really good deal does seam to get some to pull the trigger.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/30 22:56:14


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I wonder if PP will use Warcaster like GW is using AoS and 40K right now - bouncing ideas off each game.

I'd lose to see Warcasters sideboard idea brought into Warmachine/Hordes and I think it would really work great considering that it lets you use a lot more models at the same time and just summon in what you need from your sideboard during the fight. I think that's an ideal way for a skirmish game to keep the skirmish feel, but at the same time have a big roster of models for the player to buy and choose from without it ending up a wargame.

A Blog in Miniature

The Swarm Arises

Do you ever notice, sometimes, there's an extra post? 
   
Made in us
Second Story Man





Astonished of Heck

Overread wrote:
 Charistoph wrote:
Overread wrote:They could even go big with a new name - IRON KINGDOMS - and finally just merge Warmachine and Hordes. It is somewhat curious that they spread their marketing over two franchise titles and yet the two games work together almost all the time and, esp now, likely rely heavily on it to survive since neither one has pulled ahead of the other.

Possible, but I wonder if that would be confused with the TTRPG at this point?

Unlikely, GW never has a problem marketing loads of different products under Warhammer 40K or Age of Sigmar.

Iron Kingdoms just becomes the overarching title then you've got the RPG, the Wargame etc.... underneath. Mixing up a wargame with an RPG is not easy .

In this case, we're going backwards from that, though. GW's miniature game is unlikely to be called Dark Heresy any time soon, for example. Most people who haven't dived in to any lore would just be confused by calling the culmination Iron Kingdoms. At least for the first year or two. Maybe if they start branding it as Iron Kingdoms: Warmachine for a while, they can gradually retire the original moniker. As it is, getting Hordes trademarked must be a bear to keep up.

Overread wrote:I wonder if PP will use Warcaster like GW is using AoS and 40K right now - bouncing ideas off each game.

I'd lose to see Warcasters sideboard idea brought into Warmachine/Hordes and I think it would really work great considering that it lets you use a lot more models at the same time and just summon in what you need from your sideboard during the fight. I think that's an ideal way for a skirmish game to keep the skirmish feel, but at the same time have a big roster of models for the player to buy and choose from without it ending up a wargame.

I think a lot of people have been thinking that for a while now. It's also possible that some of that "side-boarding" is also being tested by the Infernals, too.

Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Overread wrote:
I wonder if PP will use Warcaster like GW is using AoS and 40K right now - bouncing ideas off each game.

I'd lose to see Warcasters sideboard idea brought into Warmachine/Hordes and I think it would really work great considering that it lets you use a lot more models at the same time and just summon in what you need from your sideboard during the fight. I think that's an ideal way for a skirmish game to keep the skirmish feel, but at the same time have a big roster of models for the player to buy and choose from without it ending up a wargame.


It wouldn't surprise me if they are using warcaster as a test bed. Before he left Will H was vocal about the fact that he wanted to drop things like model facing, improve terrain rules etc. All of which are core parts of warcaster.

Iv said this many time but i was expected the oblivion campaign to be the "end times" for Mk3 resulting in a MK4 with slimmed down factions and model count, on account of most of the IK and major cities being burnt to the ground, eaten up etc. Instead what we go was a Mk3.5 with even more bloat.

The thing is that I don't think that PP has any kind of cushioning to allow them to weather the upheaval that a full rewrite would create in the community. I would be one of those people who, if PP removed some of the more "technical" elements of from WM/H, would walk away. im not sure they would survive such an upheaval financially.
GW had the money to do it and grind it out, remove a whole generation of WHFB players and replace them over time with a new generation of Timmys and their AoS armies and simple rules. PP cannot do that.

Also I don't thing PP has the money to retool, re-sculpt and reproduce a whole new fleet of models for a new edition in that manner. They have had to kickstater all of Warcaster and most of RQ. I know they say its a preorder system but its also a great way of avoiding financial risk and putting it all on the customer up front. Meaning they just don't have the funds to take risks with.

So as much as I think that PP should attempt a Mk4 with full re-work I dont think they have the staff, money or the balls to do it. Which is why they are stuck adding bloat on bloat, faction on faction and power creep on power creep. Which is why i think the game has run its course.

Still want to play it, IF I can find the right mined people to play it with
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Sunno wrote:

The thing is that I don't think that PP has any kind of cushioning to allow them to weather the upheaval that a full rewrite would create in the community.

Also I don't thing PP has the money to retool, re-sculpt and reproduce a whole new fleet of models for a new edition in that manner. They have had to kickstater all of Warcaster and most of RQ. I know they say its a preorder system but its also a great way of avoiding financial risk and putting it all on the customer up front. Meaning they just don't have the funds to take risks with.

So as much as I think that PP should attempt a Mk4 with full re-work I dont think they have the staff, money or the balls to do it. Which is why they are stuck adding bloat on bloat, faction on faction and power creep on power creep. Which is why i think the game has run its course.


Iirc, I heard most of their cash flow these days is minicrate. Wmh apparently doesn't bring all that much in. The fact that everything is a kick-start does make sense financially,but it also indicates that budgets are tight.

In terms of adding bloat, it's unfortunste but it's
the 'new wave sells' nature of the industry. Most of a kits sales are in the first six months. After a point, the most of a factions roster kind of becomes irrelevant in terms of its ability to generate £££s and $$$s. most of thr old factions are (pardon the puns!) colossal behemoths at this point. They're kind of mined out, bar malibu-man-o-war, now with a new hat kinds of shenanigans. Pp were forced into thr 'a new faction every year from now on' route to maintain the 'wave' business model.

I tend to agree with you. I don't think they have the resources (staff, time, $$$) or interest to rework wmh. I don't think the community is there for it any more either. Its old design in a new market. It's in wfb territory.

greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy

"Punch your fist in the air and hold your Gameboy aloft like the warrior you are" 
   
Made in us
Second Story Man





Astonished of Heck

Sunno wrote:
Iv said this many time but i was expected the oblivion campaign to be the "end times" for Mk3 resulting in a MK4 with slimmed down factions and model count, on account of most of the IK and major cities being burnt to the ground, eaten up etc. Instead what we go was a Mk3.5 with even more bloat.

It's still possible, but I'm not holding my breath.

Sunno wrote:
The thing is that I don't think that PP has any kind of cushioning to allow them to weather the upheaval that a full rewrite would create in the community. I would be one of those people who, if PP removed some of the more "technical" elements of from WM/H, would walk away. im not sure they would survive such an upheaval financially.
GW had the money to do it and grind it out, remove a whole generation of WHFB players and replace them over time with a new generation of Timmys and their AoS armies and simple rules. PP cannot do that.

Remember when they took out the ability to Throw your own models? There was a lot of vitriol about that decision. It didn't really help that other community decisions were killing the game at the same time.

Sunno wrote:
Also I don't thing PP has the money to retool, re-sculpt and reproduce a whole new fleet of models for a new edition in that manner. They have had to kickstater all of Warcaster and most of RQ. I know they say its a preorder system but its also a great way of avoiding financial risk and putting it all on the customer up front. Meaning they just don't have the funds to take risks with.

So as much as I think that PP should attempt a Mk4 with full re-work I dont think they have the staff, money or the balls to do it. Which is why they are stuck adding bloat on bloat, faction on faction and power creep on power creep. Which is why i think the game has run its course.

I can't fully agree on this. If they don't have enough to do Mk4 with a work up, they wouldn't have had the wherewithal to do Warcaster. That being said, it wouldn't surprise me to find that Warcaster was the last gasp. I don't know of anyone local playing it, but I'm kind of relegated to the extreme edge of the community due to certain personal travel restrictions and haven't really looked.

Sunno wrote:
Still want to play it, IF I can find the right mined people to play it with

That's true enough. I think some of the more local blokes would be up for it, but the overall scene is dominated by the Steamrollers.

Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
Made in us
Widowmaker





Deadnight wrote:
Sunno wrote:

The thing is that I don't think that PP has any kind of cushioning to allow them to weather the upheaval that a full rewrite would create in the community.

Also I don't thing PP has the money to retool, re-sculpt and reproduce a whole new fleet of models for a new edition in that manner. They have had to kickstater all of Warcaster and most of RQ. I know they say its a preorder system but its also a great way of avoiding financial risk and putting it all on the customer up front. Meaning they just don't have the funds to take risks with.

So as much as I think that PP should attempt a Mk4 with full re-work I dont think they have the staff, money or the balls to do it. Which is why they are stuck adding bloat on bloat, faction on faction and power creep on power creep. Which is why i think the game has run its course.


Iirc, I heard most of their cash flow these days is minicrate. Wmh apparently doesn't bring all that much in. The fact that everything is a kick-start does make sense financially,but it also indicates that budgets are tight.

In terms of adding bloat, it's unfortunste but it's
the 'new wave sells' nature of the industry. Most of a kits sales are in the first six months. After a point, the most of a factions roster kind of becomes irrelevant in terms of its ability to generate £££s and $$$s. most of thr old factions are (pardon the puns!) colossal behemoths at this point. They're kind of mined out, bar malibu-man-o-war, now with a new hat kinds of shenanigans. Pp were forced into thr 'a new faction every year from now on' route to maintain the 'wave' business model.

I tend to agree with you. I don't think they have the resources (staff, time, $$$) or interest to rework wmh. I don't think the community is there for it any more either. Its old design in a new market. It's in wfb territory.


This is why, in terms of Warmachine should start pivoting towards the BattleTech way of handling bloat. Start kickstarting and licensing digital games of all kinds, see which ones stick and bring in income off the IP itself while doing Era releases every 5 years, and making sourcebooks for the miniature game in between. Warmachine is at the age now that it needs to move away from banking off of models and banking off of the IP in other mediums. This is true for any miniature that matures and wants to stick around. Whether it be Battletech or GW-verse.

Heck GW is still banking off of WHFB's video games long after the model game itself is dead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also if steamroller is big or if you haven't played for a while and want to dip your toes in, just bring a copy of the Brawlmachine format and ask if anyone wants to play.

Most scenes with actual people in it are will be okay to try it instead of Steamroller (especially since it is really an addendum on the SR rules) and have fun.

I have seen people who are skeptical, fall in love with the format after 1 game.

When it comes to community people need to be more active and less passive in making the scene what they want it to be rather than hoping spontaneous generation makes the scene exactly as they want it for their zip code.

This seem strictly a type of mindset from old guard Warmachine players (which is wierd, we are old, we should know how the world operates). I don't see this in any other community. If there are a bunch of super competitives there is a break off of casuals. But that wont happen from greybeards sitting on their couch.

https://www.loswarmachine.com/brawlmachine


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And while everyone now goes out to support the scene and formats they want to see, here are some great content creators every one can watch, read, and leave a comment for:

https://www.youtube.com/user/NeoKaiser0

https://www.youtube.com/user/MrMalorian

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2LsQzlVM5n2YZQYqjNGH4A

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtcWDdbRmOvkLjwAYN9V-tw

https://www.youtube.com/user/maxacorn

https://vldstudios.com/gravedigger/


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/02 15:22:40


 
   
Made in ca
Painting Within the Lines






My channel survived and was supported by PP fans. The last 12 months have seen a a massive drop off in popularity. Massive.
So massive that after 5 years of making painting videos that focused on using P3 paints and many of their models, I’ve given up.
My camera also broke, but that was just the last and final straw that broke the camel.

Watching and being a part of the steady decline of anything not GW was painful to watch and experience. I would be very surprised if they can make a comeback post-COVID. Even their kickstarters are pretty lacklustre in backer numbers. Even their most successful KS to date wasn’t over 7k backers, which was the IKRPG adapted to 5th edition.
Considering Indy publishers much smaller that PP can gather more backers than most of their projects makes me very concerned for their future.

A company with 30 employees can’t sustain anything long term only make a few hundred thousand dollars per project. Especially when they only have around 3 or 4 per year.
But they’ve been limping along for years now so I could be completely off base.
For me, it’s not so much their IP but the cost. Their prices are way too high for anyone outside the US. Once shipping and conversion rate is factored in, their prices become ludicrous.
Watching and observing everything around their IP slowly sinking and them losing popularity is painful and sad.
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







marxlives wrote:
...Also if steamroller is big or if you haven't played for a while and want to dip your toes in, just bring a copy of the Brawlmachine format and ask if anyone wants to play.

Most scenes with actual people in it are will be okay to try it instead of Steamroller (especially since it is really an addendum on the SR rules) and have fun.

I have seen people who are skeptical, fall in love with the format after 1 game...


I like the missions, I find 25pts makes it really unforgiving. Also the ban list could use a bit of an expansion; it's tremendously difficult to position to stop Thunderhead wandering in and fzzt-ing your entire list without losing on scenario, and Thagrosh1's free replacement heavy is brutal to try and play into.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa





Atlanta, GA

deleted

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/15 16:48:28


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Mr. Grey wrote:
A company with 30 employees can’t sustain anything long term only make a few hundred thousand dollars per project. Especially when they only have around 3 or 4 per year.
But they’ve been limping along for years now so I could be completely off base.


I've found the constant turnover of long-term employees and designers fairly worrying for years now. I realize that in any industry you're going to have folks moving on to new and different things, but PP especially seemed to lose a lot of people. Not sure what it says when even your main lore guy(Doug Seacat) has gone and left the company. Obviously no telling what's causing this, whether or not it's low pay for the area they're in, uncomfortable workplace conditions, or what.



While turnover can always be a concern Doug is still a contractor for them. His stated reason for leaving is wanting to work in his own worlds and write novels which is a perfectly reasonable reason to leave. I'm surprised they kept Seacat as long as they did as creative types usually don't like to hang around and be stuck in other people's worlds/constraints based off all the ones I know IRL.

Some have left, like Goetz, to be contractors and have come back more full time (he's doing all the 5E stuff). I'm not sure of he's full time as he did have some RPG stuff come out from Modiphius last year.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mr. Grey wrote:


I've said it before: I'll gladly pay more for quality resin miniatures or quality pewter minis. But ditch the crappy plastic.



While I like plastic depending on the model PP hasn't had too much luck with it (though I do like their PVC stuff for their boardgames) but I agree. Their resin is top notch and arguably the best in the industry for detail and durability.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/02 22:46:06


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Warcaster so far hasn't had any plastics, its all metal and resin.

A Blog in Miniature

The Swarm Arises

Do you ever notice, sometimes, there's an extra post? 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Pyre Troll






they've also redone the starter box casters in resin/metal with new sculpts, so it could be they are slowly working to get away from all the bad plastics
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I think that is their plan, the plastics didn't work for them and they've been burned hard. They also now seem to lack the will/finances to push into plastics again and with their market on a downturn there perhaps isn't the sales pressure either to make that move.

Moving into plastics is a big risk for companies; yes plastic can be cast faster and is a cheaper raw material; but its much easier to get a bad formula of plastic that customers don't like; or to end up with strange cuts on the moulds that limits your creative design (because your whole design team is used to metal and resin cuts and limitations). And if in the end you don't get a big surge in sales the plastic isn't even giving you all the advantages you were after.

It's a risky move for many and yet sometimes its also an essential move when things expand.



A Blog in Miniature

The Swarm Arises

Do you ever notice, sometimes, there's an extra post? 
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




marxlives wrote:

And while everyone now goes out to support the scene and formats they want to see, here are some great content creators every one can watch, read, and leave a comment for:



http://momentofclarity.eu/

is the one I'd like to mention - run by our WTC team member it has returned to posting battle reports recently (once the situation allowed games to be played again)
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




Schmapdi wrote:
Sunno wrote:
Schmapdi wrote:
 Ghool wrote:
Hungerford went to Broken Anvil Miniatures as Lead Game Designer.


Geesh - do they have anyone left who used to work there 5 years ago? All the "names" are gone now.


Its worrying and it doesn't look good given PPs recent history. But reflect on this.

1) Staying at the same company for 5-10 years is very very rare these days especially in the tabletop gaming industry.
2) Most of the "big names" at PP were total "no names" when they joined the company and only gained a reputation and the love of the community over time. The new staff will have the opportunity to do the same.
3) A changing of the guard can be very worrying (I am worried, for the record). But it can also be an opportunity for new ideas, new approaches, openness to new tech and concepts. I think many of us agree that PP needs to "do something" to claw back market space and players. So maybe a fresh set of eyes could help in doing this.

Another thing I have been thinking about recently is maybe just accepting that, in reality, WM/H time is just done. Though I think I still love it, its still a very old game with old mechanics and a huge back catalogue that can never really be balanced by a company with about 5 devs. Its out of step with modern trends, communities and production techniques. Maybe its time we all accept that, thank it for the memories and get behind PPs other projects and support them when they come to do the complete refresh of WM/H from the ground up as I suspect they will have to do.

Not a popular opinion I know.


That's true - some new blood could be a really good thing for the game and help them get back on their feet - but it'd be less worrying if all the old guard hadn't left in the span of a year. That really feels like a "sinking ship" sort of deal. Plus how much will the new guard be hobbled by Matt Wilson still being in charge? How involved is he anymore, how open is he to change?

Let me put it this way. Way back when they used their forums to interact with their customers (iirc, it was during the Mk2 beta), Matt happily described himself as 'anal retentive.' He seemed genuinely baffled when people informed him that it was generally not considered a positive quality.

As a more general quality, he seems to get stuck on keeping designs. Which is why the Trollblood troll models look pretty much like Growlers from Vor the Maelstrom (which he worked on before PP). He definitely has a strong streak of 'this is how things should be.'

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/04 15:30:29


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Widowmaker





Cyel wrote:
marxlives wrote:

And while everyone now goes out to support the scene and formats they want to see, here are some great content creators every one can watch, read, and leave a comment for:



http://momentofclarity.eu/

is the one I'd like to mention - run by our WTC team member it has returned to posting battle reports recently (once the situation allowed games to be played again)


Very cool, I will check it out.

 
   
Made in us
Widowmaker





Been having fun with Riot Quest for awhile on Friday nights. And now there is an official wiki for it! Entries are still being made and updated but still alot of good info.
https://home.privateerpress.com/2021/07/01/riot-quest-rules-wiki-live/


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/07 14:51:32


 
   
Made in us
Destructive Daemon Prince





Albany, NY

Cyel wrote:
http://momentofclarity.eu/

is the one I'd like to mention - run by our WTC team member it has returned to posting battle reports recently (once the situation allowed games to be played again)
Thanks for the reminder! I used to read MoC but lost track of it during the pandemic. Happy to catch up!

KOW BATREPS: BLOODFIRE
INSTAGRAM: @boss_salvage 
   
Made in us
Widowmaker





Only faction that has a legal and legitimate existence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCjEVKlEXLU

 
   
 
Forum Index » Privateer Press Miniature Games (Warmachine & Hordes)
Go to: