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ERJAK wrote: Even more nerfs that weren't previously mention Dominions also go up 2ppm for NO fething REASON.
Yay. So... leave Morvenn on the sprue and start on some GSC instead?
As of right now, with Drukhari seeing no significant changes, Custodes seeing release day buffs, GSC coming out strong and Crusher Stampede getting a slap on the wrist Sisters(as well as several other Low Tier 1, high tier 2 armies, we're absolutely not the only ones who got hit here. We just got hit the HARDEST.) have been smacked down at least a full tier in effectiveness. Every single competitive build just went up 100+pts, even if they didn't soup and currently we have nothing to pivot to.
The Bloody Rose Supplement looks, so far, like it will be the same level of boon as the OoML one was. Which is to say, very little. If the things they haven't shown are much stronger than the strats/relics we've seen, it could be possible to regain some of that lost ground for BR players. The wildcard is the Army of Renown. Crusher Stampede made Tyranids instantly tier 1, but none of the other AoRs have had any competitive impact.
The other thing that could potentially really help is the February balance patch. If they redo the rules for Castigators, Exorcists, and Paragons, that PLUS the point drops might give us something we can pivot to. If Exorcists got to the point where the datasheet didn't essentially read "pay 170pts, lose 8CP" or if the Castigator got a gun that did damage, that would be enough to take the burden of all of our shooting off of Retributors AND give Bloody rose lists a reasonable method of doing damage from afar.
Not looking food for an army of renown. It's starting to look like we've already seen the meat of it.
First off,I love how it's a 'codex supplement' that's 3 pages long.
Second of all...an entire page devoted to just relics?
Also, by the look of it, the army of renown is Crusade only. Which would be on brand for GW'S treatment of Sisters lately.
Wait...it jumps from 78 to...83? Either we're getting 20+ stratagems or these dumb motherfethers seriously used FOUR FULL PAGES of this stupid thing for goddam army photos. IN THE RULES SECTION.
I don't think I'm buying a GW book ever again after this.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/24 15:24:07
mchammadad wrote: Most of the list i play usually run about 6 to 7 immolators.....
Yea. i tend to rip half an armies worth of units with just immolators
with the -pts in the new chapter approved.... i can make an immolator doomstack of bout 8 multi melta immolators in a 2k points list easy.
my highest total i got for melta shots is 56...... seeing if i can tweak the list a bit
FYI, since immolators are dedicated transport, rule of 3 doesn't apply to them
Do you mind sharing your immo spam list? I'm sitting on a ton of old 4ed immolators and was thinking of using them as a cheaper way to get back into the game.
mchammadad wrote: Most of the list i play usually run about 6 to 7 immolators.....
Yea. i tend to rip half an armies worth of units with just immolators
with the -pts in the new chapter approved.... i can make an immolator doomstack of bout 8 multi melta immolators in a 2k points list easy.
my highest total i got for melta shots is 56...... seeing if i can tweak the list a bit
FYI, since immolators are dedicated transport, rule of 3 doesn't apply to them
Do you mind sharing your immo spam list? I'm sitting on a ton of old 4ed immolators and was thinking of using them as a cheaper way to get back into the game.
Thanks!
Immospam lists basically write themselves thanks to how many points they use.
Example list:
Canoness Blessed Blade, IP, Warlord Righteous Rage, Relic Mantle
Palantinex2
2x MMBSS 1x HFBSS 3xStormbolter Dominions
2x4 MM Rets with double Cherub.
1x4 HF Rets with Combi Melta and Double Cherub
1x5 Repentia
6x MM Immolators
2kish Points
A keen eyed observer will notice that around 1750pts of that list is generally considered "Locked in". Even if you only went 2MM on the Rets, that still leaves you around 1600pts with 0 replaceable parts.
Canoness [5 PL, 110pts]: Blessed Blade, Plasma pistol, Relic: Iron Surplice of Saint Istaela, Rod of Office, Warlord, Warlord Trait: 2. Righteous Rage
. Word of the Emperor
Canoness [5 PL, 110pts]: Blessed Blade, Plasma pistol, Relic: Iron Surplice of Saint Istaela, Rod of Office, Warlord, Warlord Trait: 2. Righteous Rage
. Word of the Emperor
Depends how competitive your meta is, but this looks like a decent enough list in a less-competitive setting. Paragons are meh for the points and you can probably afford to drop the Incensor Cherubs and Simulacrum Imperialis on the Battle Sister squads, but it's not like your list is straight-up bad. I'd honestly consider swapping one, or both, of the Immolators for a Rhino and then put the points saved there + the points from the BSS equipment into a Dogmata, another Seraphim squad, or more Sacresants. 5 Sacresants are great for the points, but die very quickly to volume of fire.
Good evening lads, I was wondering : am I allowed to take a relic on the Germinae Superia knowing that the rule state that " A GEMINAE SUPERIA counts as a named character for all rules purposes".
Futhermore, I don't quite understand if Celestine is taking my first free relic slot with her weapon or whatever she carries in her datasheet. Can I take my free relic despite having Celestine or must I pay for any relic I would like to bring?
ierp wrote: Good evening lads, I was wondering : am I allowed to take a relic on the Germinae Superia knowing that the rule state that " A GEMINAE SUPERIA counts as a named character for all rules purposes".
Futhermore, I don't quite understand if Celestine is taking my first free relic slot with her weapon or whatever she carries in her datasheet. Can I take my free relic despite having Celestine or must I pay for any relic I would like to bring?
Thanks you for your help, as always !
Celestine and the twins are named characters. Named characters can't take relics.
Celestine's blade isn't a relic. It's just built in wargear on the unit.
Canoness [5 PL, 110pts]: Blessed Blade, Plasma pistol, Relic: Iron Surplice of Saint Istaela, Rod of Office, Warlord, Warlord Trait: 2. Righteous Rage
. Word of the Emperor
Depends how competitive your meta is, but this looks like a decent enough list in a less-competitive setting. Paragons are meh for the points and you can probably afford to drop the Incensor Cherubs and Simulacrum Imperialis on the Battle Sister squads, but it's not like your list is straight-up bad. I'd honestly consider swapping one, or both, of the Immolators for a Rhino and then put the points saved there + the points from the BSS equipment into a Dogmata, another Seraphim squad, or more Sacresants. 5 Sacresants are great for the points, but die very quickly to volume of fire.
Also, if you DO bring paragons, bring 3 multimeltas. I can see you're trying for Holy trinity, but mathematically Holy Trinity already isn't a particularly good stratagem. On Paragons it's full on garbage tier.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Thing is I’m pretty sure I’ll be facing 3x plague burst crawler and I simply can’t figure out how to approach that whith these gals. I feel retributors crumble to that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/28 00:35:34
Well I would put the rets into reserve that way they come on the board edge and get atleast one round of shooting off
I think it's very difficult to know exactly what a competative army looks like for the sisters at the moment their have been too many changes to points/removal of 2nd subfactions/mission structures
I am not sure argent shroud is the best way to go.
I suspect you will get themed lists
BR lists focussing heavily on melee units but with very limited shooting i imagine will win big or lose heavily in a charge at the enemy
VH lists will focus on numbers and board control and surviving with a little more shooting support these gals are focusing the mission they won't score as highly but won't lose so hard.
OOML I think could do very well but they suffer from not being as combat buffy or survivable but they have some nice tricks and now we can take a fortification again a leap of faith is an auto 12vp so very strong on mission. Downside is not as survivable as VH or as killy as BR
AS every bit of them apart from the subfaction trait is weak (the strat is useful occasionally but many games it does nothing). The subfaction trait is strong especially when it comes to shooting but we are not a shooty army compared to other factions and if you try to out shoot a shooty army it wont go well. This made it a nice include as a second detatchment but its melee buffs are not a patch on BR and it can't play the missions like VH and OOML
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/01/28 01:27:23
In order to have a bloody rose detatchment for the purpose of the supplement your models must be Cult imperialis BR agent of the imperium or unaligned
But... you are not restricted to 1 detatchment you could have BR detatchment without non BR sanctified units and a second detatchment with the BR keyword legal under the new chapter approved rules without the benefits or restrictions
Warlord traits are only giveable to your actual warlord fiery example is the best +1 to w and 2 miracle dice on a kill but not great. Relics require a bloody rose warlord to access so that would exclude vahl but not celestine in a second detatchment and celestine is probably more fitting with BR. However they are weak so I would be unlikely to use them.
That brings it to the stratsgems these are opened up by your army including an order the bloody rose detatchment not the army being wholy order of the bloody rose detatchment
+1 to charge on repentia can be clutch
RR1 to unit of multimeltas if they target a unit 6" of board edge is nice your probably takeing 1
+1to Wound and +2 ap to a beneficence character is damn nice
Pre game moving a transport is OP
Then you get a good close range defensive buff and a damage buff Savage twist is damn nice on novitiates
In conclusion kudos GW for writing a rule that means that only a portion of detatchments with order of the bloody rose keyword are order of the bloody rose detatchments. Order of the bloody rose detatchments are distinct from an adepta sororitas detatchment with the order of the bloody rose conviction this will create no confusion.
The WL and relics are rather weak but there's some nice strats
WL and relics are keyed to your warlord not having a order of the bloody rose detatchment so it's a few extra options with no changes with no vahl
If you pay the CP for a second detatchment you can include what you want but you'll lose the relics and wl options if you don't have a BR Warlord - looking at vahl - and you gain strats
Or you can not pay the CP and lose access to a few options. And gain everything
The supplement isn't broken but it shouldn't be BR was one of our strongest subfactions to begin with but certainly its a nice power boost
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/29 15:50:21
In order to have a bloody rose detatchment for the purpose of the supplement your models must be Cult imperialis BR agent of the imperium or unaligned
But... you are not restricted to 1 detatchment you could have BR detatchment without non BR sanctified units and a second detatchment with the BR keyword legal under the new chapter approved rules without the benefits or restrictions
Warlord traits are only giveable to your actual warlord fiery example is the best +1 to w and 2 miracle dice on a kill but not great. Relics require a bloody rose warlord to access so that would exclude vahl but not celestine in a second detatchment and celestine is probably more fitting with BR. However they are weak so I would be unlikely to use them.
That brings it to the stratsgems these are opened up by your army including an order the bloody rose detatchment not the army being wholy order of the bloody rose detatchment
+1 to charge on repentia can be clutch
RR1 to unit of multimeltas if they target a unit 6" of board edge is nice your probably takeing 1
+1to Wound and +2 ap to a beneficence character is damn nice
Pre game moving a transport is OP
Then you get a good close range defensive buff and a damage buff Savage twist is damn nice on novitiates
In conclusion kudos GW for writing a rule that means that only a portion of detatchments with order of the bloody rose keyword are order of the bloody rose detatchments. Order of the bloody rose detatchments are distinct from an adepta sororitas detatchment with the order of the bloody rose conviction this will create no confusion.
The WL and relics are rather weak but there's some nice strats
WL and relics are keyed to your warlord not having a order of the bloody rose detatchment so it's a few extra options with no changes with no vahl
If you pay the CP for a second detatchment you can include what you want but you'll lose the relics and wl options if you don't have a BR Warlord - looking at vahl - and you gain strats
Or you can not pay the CP and lose access to a few options. And gain everything
The supplement isn't broken but it shouldn't be BR was one of our strongest subfactions to begin with but certainly its a nice power boost
There's ZERO reason to take a second non-supreme commander detachment, other than unlocking the supplement rules. No one is going to spend 2CP for the privilege of unlocking this...dreck.
Also, the rest of that doesn't make any sense. The OoML supplement already exists! And that allows Sanctified units! There wasn't any confusion about an OoML detachment, why would there be about a Bloody Rose detachment?
It helps though, that the supplement is actually terrible. The benefits included in the detachment are literally weaker than just being able to include Celestine. The difference between Celestine and the next best thing you could spend 200pts on is MORE than the value of the entire supplement.
The warlord traits are unbelievably terrible. ANYTHING that requires your opponent to behave in a certain way is bad and all of these require your opponent to behave in a certain way. Incandescent reprisal is the only one worth looking at and that's ENTIRELY because of the 5++ wound shrug. Righteous Rage and the Stock Bloody Rose trait are both MILES better than any of these.
The relic sword saves you 5 points on a blessed blade. That's it. It's not particularly better than the Blade of Saint Ellynor (D3 vs MW on 6s) but it's cheaper and combos with Rapturous blows so...sure. The rest of the relics are complete garbage.
+1 to charge on Repentia...within 6" of a Repentia Superior...for 2CP if you have so much as 6 repentia models. Always just use a CP reroll. It's FAR more likely to net a positive result, is 1 CP cheaper on Repentia units of 6 or more AND doesn't require a repentia superior. The fact that they even printed such a garbage strat is insulting.
Why are you wasting Retributor shots on something within 6" of a NON-PLAYER board edge? That's no man's land. There's no objectives over there. The only thing that this will ever target is outflankers and if your opponent outflanks within 24" of your retributors and doesn't kill your retributors...that was a free game anyway.
Using outrage of the Matriarch's on a beneficence Canoness is the most anti-synergy thing I've ever heard. The strat only works on models that have 6+ wounds. Beneficence only gives you the extra attacks against units that have 6+ models. Also, the +2 AP is only on wound rolls of 6. A regular Blessed Blade does more damage. Also, the strat is just straight up dead against anything but vehicles or mounted units in most armies.
Pregame moving a transport is good. IF YOU GO FIRST. Since none of our vehicle+unit combos are resilient enough for plopping down on a first turn objective to be anything but suicidal, it has very limited utility going second. So you're gambling a Rhino full of Repentia on winning the go first die roll.
-1 to hit within 6" means nothing. Anything you'd be in melee with is likely already hitting on 2s or pumping out so many attacks it doesn't matter what they're hitting on. Anything that gets that close to bloody rose before shooting is just going to kill you in melee anyway. The only thing that might survive with this strat is Sacresancts and they took MASSIVE hits in the last CA. Combine that with having no meaningful character bodyguard and it's a big feels bad man.
Savage Twist is just a worse Tear Them Down. Also, bloody rose was already killing things just fine. They didn't need to waste ANOTHER strat on that.
The ONLY things in this entire supplement that's worthy of competitive consideration are the Shoot when you die strat and the pregame move strat.
I personally won't be using it at all, even when I play mono-bloody rose. It's not worth 2CP to grab a bloody rose patrol to unlock these stratagems, even in lists where I don't also need to add extra units.
I respectfully disagree the wl and relic you get regardless of whats in your detatchment. The stratagems arnt worthless some are pretty nice having the choice between paying 2cp or restricting your list arnt terrible options.
I wouldn't have taken vahl in a BR list and can't normally find a space for a hospitalier and a list can certainly be built without celestine
The question is are the strats worth it
Often repentia have a reroll to charge especially near a superior but a 7" reroll is a lot more successful I'm not saying its perfect but I have easily lost games due to a maxed out repentia failing its charge and this lets you reroll one while makeing it more likely while you miracle a second
Quite often I can think of lots of games where an opponent's aircraft have ended up 6" from a board edge. Sure you won't use the strat all the tome but it's a nice option will have and it would see use
Maybe I overestimated the character buff strat but again it's a strat and I'm not saying its broken in all situations against all targets but it's nice to have as an option.
I will probably try BR and OOML I really need to test them but I think there is enough their to be a valid choice not a mandatory or broken one and that is a very tough line for a supplement to walk when it is one or our strongest subfactions. If your not takeing celestine/vahl it's an improvement if you are I think 2cp is a pretty close call for those options
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/29 18:46:23
2022/01/30 06:29:55
Subject: Re:Sisters of Battle Tactics (2021 codex)
Guys, before you get your panties in a twist, I expect GW will put out a FAQ fixing some of the issues like including Sanctified characters and such, to make it more in line with the OoML supplement. If they don't, I'll be absolutely shocked. Of course, maybe the goal is to wean us away from part one of every Sisters list design being "just take Morvenn Vahl". Still, if the way it currently reads is indeed a feature rather than a bug, the whole supplement is dead in the water competitively; Vahl is just too good to give up even with her points increase.
Regarding the relics, I like Mina's Wrath. It gives an alternative to my previous "Murderess" build (which is Blessed Blade, Blazing Ire, Rapturous Blows) and makes a decent character killer when combined with Fiery Example. Of course, as I said just above it's not worth leaving out Vahl for it. Seriously hoping they FAQ it so that you can get the new traits with Saint in the Making rather than only your actual Warlord, but unless the OoML ones are already that way, it won't happen. The other two relics are skippable for sure; nobody's gonna bring an Imagifier just for their new relic, and
I definitely like some of the strats. Pregame moving a transport full of nasties is HILARIOUS, and the fact that it only costs 1CP to do it with Sacresants is awesome. Probably worth 2CP to do it with Repentia and combos well with their +1 to charge strat; not so much for Retributors though, so just let them ride with the Dominions instead. The flank-clearing one is cool on Retributors, but it also isn't bad on Paragons or, dare I say it, our tanks. No, it likely doesn't make the tanks worth it, but it does help them get just a bit more value so...eh. Wade Into the Foe is great if you already are planning on taking Paragons as it makes them somewhat meaner vs. hordes of gribblies, but you still aren't going to clear out a full unit of Necron Warriors in a single fight phase or anything. Nice to have something to buff Paragons though, as I'm still fishing for a reason to bring them.
Overall, final verdict will need to wait for the inevitable FAQ for this book.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 12 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
Mr_Rose wrote: Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
The OOML is focused around scoring an auto 12 for leap of faith, retrieve nachmund data and engage on all fronts (barring kill missions or mission specific missions)
The BR list is much more in your opponent's face and will focus on engage on all fronts retrieve nachmund data and sacred grounds
or defend the shrine engage on all fronts and a mission specific/kill mission
I think the ooml list better mission wise but the BR has a much higher damage output - I would need to field test them
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/30 15:11:04
2022/01/30 19:47:33
Subject: Re:Sisters of Battle Tactics (2021 codex)
I think our strategy of taking Sacresants, Morvenn, and Celestine for To The Last is still viable (unless that secondary is gone and I don't know about it?), despite the points cost increases. Bodyguard shenanigans are strong.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 12 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
Mr_Rose wrote: Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
2022/01/31 18:13:38
Subject: Re:Sisters of Battle Tactics (2021 codex)
ZergSmasher wrote: Guys, before you get your panties in a twist, I expect GW will put out a FAQ fixing some of the issues like including Sanctified characters and such, to make it more in line with the OoML supplement. If they don't, I'll be absolutely shocked. Of course, maybe the goal is to wean us away from part one of every Sisters list design being "just take Morvenn Vahl". Still, if the way it currently reads is indeed a feature rather than a bug, the whole supplement is dead in the water competitively; Vahl is just too good to give up even with her points increase.
Regarding the relics, I like Mina's Wrath. It gives an alternative to my previous "Murderess" build (which is Blessed Blade, Blazing Ire, Rapturous Blows) and makes a decent character killer when combined with Fiery Example. Of course, as I said just above it's not worth leaving out Vahl for it. Seriously hoping they FAQ it so that you can get the new traits with Saint in the Making rather than only your actual Warlord, but unless the OoML ones are already that way, it won't happen. The other two relics are skippable for sure; nobody's gonna bring an Imagifier just for their new relic, and
I definitely like some of the strats. Pregame moving a transport full of nasties is HILARIOUS, and the fact that it only costs 1CP to do it with Sacresants is awesome. Probably worth 2CP to do it with Repentia and combos well with their +1 to charge strat; not so much for Retributors though, so just let them ride with the Dominions instead. The flank-clearing one is cool on Retributors, but it also isn't bad on Paragons or, dare I say it, our tanks. No, it likely doesn't make the tanks worth it, but it does help them get just a bit more value so...eh. Wade Into the Foe is great if you already are planning on taking Paragons as it makes them somewhat meaner vs. hordes of gribblies, but you still aren't going to clear out a full unit of Necron Warriors in a single fight phase or anything. Nice to have something to buff Paragons though, as I'm still fishing for a reason to bring them.
Overall, final verdict will need to wait for the inevitable FAQ for this book.
The thing is, the supplement doesn't affect Morvenn at all. There are ZERO barriers to taking her thanks to the supreme commander detachment. It's almost a targeted nerf at hospitallers and Celestine which makes 0 sense.
Mina's wrath is...fine but it sort of locks you out of Word of the Emperor since the Blade of Saint Ellynor does so much more damage when you're already ignoring Invuls. It's decent to put on a dirt cheap canoness or a Palantine but...that's about it.
Fiery example is really bad. It only works on characters, and gets you maybe 1 miracle dice every other game. Both Blazing Ire and Righteous rage are just way better. Also, OoML had a stratagem specifically to take their warlord traits because, as weak as it was, it was at least designed by someone who knew what they were doing.
The Rhino move strat is the only reason to bother with the book at all. Being able to deliver repentia (and it will be repentia, sacresancts aren't worth it as a missile unit at 16ppm) 21 inches before charge moves is quite good. HOWEVER, it's both easily countered by good deployment AND only has meaningful value going first. Spending 2CP for +1 charge is so exploitatively terrible we should be boycotting it on principle.
The flank clear stratagem requires your opponent to sit a unit valuable enough to be shot at by Multi-Meltas with 6" of a non-player board edge. If they're doing that...I kinda just say let them. There isn't a single mission where that's in range to cap an objective, so who cares? The exception are things that come in from outflank and aircraft, like U02 said, but even then...those units already did their job. If it had been surrounded by some stronger options it would have been a decent niche strat. Because the other stratagems are so weak, it looks worse than it actually is.
Paragons are bad. Any strat that requires them is, unfortunately, automatically bad as a result.
The crux of the matter is this: Sisters of Battle had a 43% winrate at the LVO, the largest tournament in north america, PRE-NERF. We lose subfaction soup AND every competitive list goes up at least 60pts, if not closer to 100. We needed the bloody rose supplement to offer something meaningful to our gameplan if we even wanted to not crash and burn competitively after the savaging CA2022 gave us. Yet, all it managed to do was rub salt in the wound by giving us 3 bad warlord traits, 3 badrelics, 7 incredibly mediocre stratagems, and a 2CP Yolo meme strat. All while locking us out of hospitallers, dialogus, and Celestine unless we pay ANOTHER 2 CP.
We had a good run but we're looking at at least the next 6 months being a throwback to the 6th-7th digital only codex days. We can hope for a hail mary in the balance slate but...oof.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/01/31 19:00:05
The only one restriction and it's slight is that morvehn has to be your warlord and that disables wl and relics not that they are strong
I disagree atleast partially- 7 mediocre strats is better than none. It was already one of our stronger builds and good ones could easily be too powerful
You also have to consider the game as a whole and that's a very complex thing. It's so much about how much we got nerfed but how much we got nerfed in comparison to others.
The change in sub factions didn't just effect us and the change in missions impact some other factions more. This makes it very difficult to see where we stand until the dust settles. Yes drukhari will be strong but custodes struggle with some of the mission changes hopefully once adjusted we will be middleish
The main reason take the dialogus was to take shield off faith on both subfactions so he's not a loss. The hospitalier was often meh outside a very specific build.
We also got a big buff to some builds in the return of the battle sanctum which for leap of faith is superb
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/31 21:50:04
U02dah4 wrote: The only one restriction and it's slight is that morvehn has to be your warlord and that disables wl and relics not that they are strong
I disagree atleast partially- 7 mediocre strats is better than none. It was already one of our stronger builds and good ones could easily be too powerful
You also have to consider the game as a whole and that's a very complex thing. It's so much about how much we got nerfed but how much we got nerfed in comparison to others.
The change in sub factions didn't just effect us and the change in missions impact some other factions more. This makes it very difficult to see where we stand until the dust settles. Yes drukhari will be strong but custodes struggle with some of the mission changes hopefully once adjusted we will be middleish
The main reason take the dialogus was to take shield off faith on both subfactions so he's not a loss. The hospitalier was often meh outside a very specific build.
We also got a big buff to some builds in the return of the battle sanctum which for leap of faith is superb
Repectfully, the unfortunate truth of our current situation is that it would take more than a codex supplement to make us 'too good'. We've fallen down so much compared to the rest of the field that preserving the internal balance of the codex can't really be a primary concern anymore. We need ANY build that can hold its own. Bloody rose has been consistently losing punch relative to other factions, OoML has to play the trading game with 100pt smaller lists, and VH and AR just don't have the offense necessary to stand up to Tau or Eldar shooting.
The game as a whole has us facing a continuing downward trend of capability, even before the significant nerfs we received. The changes in subfactions didn't just affect us, but it did affect us the most, which means we fall compared to the rest of the field. The mission changes end up pretty neutral for most armies and even the ones who ARE significantly impacted by them, like Custodes, would need to have their win rate crater 17% to get down to where we are before you account for the abysmal CA2022 changes.
To me, it seems somewhat of a foregone conclusion where we'll end up. Based on the LVO performances, our many consecutive nerfs, and our historically bad matchups against aeldari and tau in a time where both appear to be getting extremely strong releases, we can expect a significant drop to SoB winrates across the board.
The point isn't that not being able to take the Dialogus and Hospitaller is a major loss, the point is that it's a totally needless restriction GW slapped onto an already very anemic codex supplement. One that the previous, only slightly less anemic, codex supplement didn't have.
With our armies getting smaller and most missions now requiring some amount of action slaving, we have even less resources to spend getting miracle dice out of the Sanctum. Bloody Rose straight up doesn't have the infantry to spare and OoML both doesn't really need the extra dice and will run out of action economy relatively quickly due to their trade heavy playstyle. It's nice that we can actually deploy it and the obscuring is certainly helpful; but it's not going to make up for the 60pts every SoB player needs to cut now.
All of this could change with a snap of GW's fingers in the February balance pass. Drop the Exorcist 10 more points, increase both missile systems Ap by 1, make devastating refrain a 1CP stratagem and that immediately puts us in a spot where we now have relatively guaranteed damage output both OoML and BR can leverage to advance their gameplans.
Revert the nerfs to Dominions and Armorium Cherubs. Give Paragon warsuits an additional wound. Drop Mortifiers and penitent engines 5 points per model. Let any variety of immolator auto-explode. Fix Tale of the Stoic and give the Dialogus something to make her a more reasonable choice compared to the Dogmata.
All that together would allow us to stay roughly where we are now while giving us more options for list building, anchored by strong non-LoS shooting from the exorcist.
Having played a few of the new missions I do feel like CA2022 missions will be tougher for Sisters. 2 missions have no objectives in the deployment zones, and none have two objectives in the deployment zones. That's a pretty big hit to the more passive playstyle Sisters have excelled at.
Rumor is that bodyguard is also being "addressed" in the February balance patch, which I assume means it will not function in its current state. While I think bodyguard is a bad rule for the game, it's been a critical part of Sisters playing the midfield objectives with Celestine.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/01 00:44:02
~15000 Astra Militarum: 
~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: 
~2000 | Sisters of Battle: 
~1200 | Tyranids: 
