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Made in us
Cog in the Machine




Looks like I’m going to be doing head swaps on my Rangers with Arc Rifles. Definitely want them to be Vanguard instead.

   
Made in us
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Mira Mesa

Ruststalkers are going up to AP-2 on Razors and AP-3 on Blades. I wonder what that means for the Chordclaws and the mortal wound rule. Previously, the Chordclaw's additional mortal wounds, and multiwounds against Marines, pushed them ahead in basically all cases. An additional AP and strength on Razors probably means they're stronger except against high invulns. It may be the case that Chordclaws are still the pick despite being worse in most cases; they'll likely be sufficient to meet the need while also being better in key match-ups against invulns.

They're already a staple of my army, serving principally as cheap, mobile wounds for scoring secondaries. Circuitous Assassins lets them score Scramblers and Teleport Homers on turn 1, and trying to prevent that can really mess with an opponent's deployment plans.

What's more, I was crazy enough to go all-in on them as an actual assault unit: Expansionist Forgeworld for AP-1, supported by a Magos Manipulus with Omniscient Mask, and charging alongside Vanguard to actually use that T-1. They already were spewing enough mortals to chew through tough targets. If the cost remains similar, and they retain their mortals, then they're just getting ~66% damage increase. I think my math with buffs was ~10 average wounds to Primaris, which is roughly 50% chance to wipe a unit in one turn; 16 average wounds makes that 90%+ to wipe Marines holding an objective.

   
Made in gb
Stalwart Tribune





Northumberland

Interesting stuff, seems to make Breachers even better as well. Glad that rangers are becoming more viable.

One and a half feet in the hobby


My Adeptus Mechanicus Painting Log:
# The Explorator Fleet of Labrunnia IX #

 
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench





What do we think about Torsion now being 48" range and D3+3 damage?

Also plasma culverins now only dealing 1MW on a 1 when overcharging is nice but still doesn't make plasma worth taking in 9th without significant external buffs imo.

I'm on the fence about the galvanic rifle change, it sort incentivises us yet to again to sit back like a pill box and fire. Really boring.
   
Made in de
[DCM]
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Torsion cannons are a poor mans lascannon now. On durable troop units that can melee at least a bit.
Whats not do like? Its a downright upgrade that kills Gravis in one wound.

Plasma is worth it as long as there's stuff that is not a 3+ save or has higher toughness. Then plasma wins out.. thats plenty of reason for me, although the rando shots can always screw you over.

Galvanic Rifle change is fantastic. Rangers were always a sitting bull unit and now are more than double as effective at ranges 15"+. The range also meshes with the new Arc Rifle, although that one now is a toss up for vanguard as well. More options in the end for everyone!

Data author of DA/AdM on Battlescribe
Report bugs here:
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Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






If Mars Canticle and the price of Rangers stays the same, I can easily see us spamming 12x5 Rangers in Brigade detachments.
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

really curious what the heavy arc rifles are now, since the base one has its profile now (flat3 instead of D6 damage, autowound on 4+ though so i'll take it)

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Vineheart01 wrote:
really curious what the heavy arc rifles are now, since the base one has its profile now (flat3 instead of D6 damage, autowound on 4+ though so i'll take it)


Or the AP... AP-3 too much to hope for?
   
Made in es
Fresh-Faced New User




Im wondering about hoplites and their Arc Lances... if they are upgrading all arc weapons, will they change too?

It would make them really good in combat and shooting, both against elite units and vehicles in general
   
Made in gb
Stabbin' Skarboy





crewe

They could make Rangers ignore hit penalties, atm they don't have any special rule whilst Vanguard do and its not like there isnt already a Troop unit in the game that already ignores to Hit modifiers, Incursors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Leucaruth wrote:
Im wondering about hoplites and their Arc Lances... if they are upgrading all arc weapons, will they change too?

It would make them really good in combat and shooting, both against elite units and vehicles in general


I hope they do, have FW FAQ any of the compendium stuff this edition for Space Marines, Necrons and Deathguard? I know Dark Eldar are waiting for the Reaper and Tantalus to get a FAQ.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/14 12:19:01


How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?  
   
Made in gb
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun




Bath

im curious what they will do with the Infiltraitors. they are a bit of a bad unit at the moment, they dont really have a niche or purpose ever since Engine War let Ruststalkers do infiltration moves.

Given they arent changing the models, we're stuck with the current weapon options, so unless they do something really funky with the flechette blaster & stubcarbine, its really a question of what special rules they may add to them to give them a purpose. Im tempted to say they'll take away the ruststalker infil strat, and maybe give the infiltraitors a "always in cover" rule or strat to boost survivability(fluff it as their "screw with senses feild" working to cloak them).

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
500pts
1000 pts
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




xerxeskingofking wrote:
im curious what they will do with the Infiltraitors. they are a bit of a bad unit at the moment, they dont really have a niche or purpose ever since Engine War let Ruststalkers do infiltration moves.


To start, they need a -1 to hit aura for shooting and melee, and not something useless like 6-8". Maybe within 12"?

I'm not optimistic about taser goads, they're getting a slight buff yes but there's no way we're going back to modifiable hit roll triggers as GW just seems to be done with that as a game mechanic even outside of taser weapons specifically, and without that they aren't doing anything a power sword won't do better. Power swords can work as we have S4 to start with, but they're obviously competing with Ruststalkers in that loadout while not having as many attacks and probably lacking whatever MW dealing special rules they'll have as well.

I think what I really need from this edition is for GW to break out Concealed Positions deployment to the broader meta, as in pre-first battle round mid-field deployment, instead of continuing to lump units that set up in such a manner in previous editions into the "Deepstrike" deployment pile. Infiltrators would be the #1 candidate in our army to get such a deployment rule.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/16 00:36:33


 
   
Made in gb
Stabbin' Skarboy





crewe

xerxeskingofking wrote:
im curious what they will do with the Infiltraitors. they are a bit of a bad unit at the moment, they dont really have a niche or purpose ever since Engine War let Ruststalkers do infiltration moves.

Given they arent changing the models, we're stuck with the current weapon options, so unless they do something really funky with the flechette blaster & stubcarbine, its really a question of what special rules they may add to them to give them a purpose. Im tempted to say they'll take away the ruststalker infil strat, and maybe give the infiltraitors a "always in cover" rule or strat to boost survivability(fluff it as their "screw with senses feild" working to cloak them).


I think Infiltrators might get a situational fight last ability like Incubi. Currently their aura is just bad, and in the past it actually made people fight worse. This would give our army access to fight last like every other army that has been released for 9th (excluding supplements)

How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?  
   
Made in gb
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun




Bath

well, apparently the cover art (and thus the contents) of our combat patrol box have been leaked online. I heard about it thought Auspex Tactics (link to the youtube video here)


contents are:

enginseer
skitarii
Kataphron servitors
Dunecrawler.

assuming it retails at the same price as other combat patrols, is about a 30% reduction on separate purchases, and about 400ish points worth, so a bit less than the standard 500 points (proof once more that the admech have a poor pounds to points ratio).


what are your thoughts on this?

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
500pts
1000 pts
 
   
Made in de
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





xerxeskingofking wrote:
well, apparently the cover art (and thus the contents) of our combat patrol box have been leaked online. I heard about it thought Auspex Tactics (link to the youtube video here)


contents are:

enginseer
skitarii
Kataphron servitors
Dunecrawler.

assuming it retails at the same price as other combat patrols, is about a 30% reduction on separate purchases, and about 400ish points worth, so a bit less than the standard 500 points (proof once more that the admech have a poor pounds to points ratio).


what are your thoughts on this?


I heard this so many times. We are getting point increases 100%. We are at a higher tier and points efficiency in general. A lot of bad weapons got huge buffs, but otherwise we get buffs too. We'll most likely see an addition of 1-2 army wide rules. Surprisingly the Engineseer stays an HQ, with the upcoming marshal he has to have a different niche that isnt just cheap HQ. Overall good for new players, not so for veterans. On the long run that might mean an increase in popularity for admech, which means we get more releases.
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

I could see the base Ranger staying the same but theres no way the other things that got buffed remains the same cost.

Which im fine with long as they dont go overboard. I kinda feel like some of our stuff is too cheap.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in gb
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun




Bath

 0XFallen wrote:


I heard this so many times. We are getting point increases 100%. We are at a higher tier and points efficiency in general. A lot of bad weapons got huge buffs, but otherwise we get buffs too. We'll most likely see an addition of 1-2 army wide rules. Surprisingly the Engineseer stays an HQ, with the upcoming marshal he has to have a different niche that isnt just cheap HQ. Overall good for new players, not so for veterans. On the long run that might mean an increase in popularity for admech, which means we get more releases.



hmm, that does make some sense, but a 10-20% increase in our base troops? seems kinda steep, honestly. Im not saying that we are bad, or inefficient on a point for point basis, just that 100 points of admech cost more than 100 points of many other armies. Im not complianing if that means i can build up my army for cheaper, but i hope it doesnt go overboard and push us too far down the tier listings.

Im guessing they went with the enginseer as hes kinda our default "cheap LT" choice, and most of the other combat patrol boxes have had a LT or other "secondary" HQ type (librarian/chaplain) rather than a Captain/capt equivalent. Also it makes sense if GW thinks they can get more money by selling the Dominus or the new Marshal separately. Im guessing the marshal has skitarii focused buffs and the Enginseer more robot/vehicle focused buffs.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
500pts
1000 pts
 
   
Made in de
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





xerxeskingofking wrote:
 0XFallen wrote:


I heard this so many times. We are getting point increases 100%. We are at a higher tier and points efficiency in general. A lot of bad weapons got huge buffs, but otherwise we get buffs too. We'll most likely see an addition of 1-2 army wide rules. Surprisingly the Engineseer stays an HQ, with the upcoming marshal he has to have a different niche that isnt just cheap HQ. Overall good for new players, not so for veterans. On the long run that might mean an increase in popularity for admech, which means we get more releases.



hmm, that does make some sense, but a 10-20% increase in our base troops? seems kinda steep, honestly. Im not saying that we are bad, or inefficient on a point for point basis, just that 100 points of admech cost more than 100 points of many other armies. Im not complianing if that means i can build up my army for cheaper, but i hope it doesnt go overboard and push us too far down the tier listings.

Im guessing they went with the enginseer as hes kinda our default "cheap LT" choice, and most of the other combat patrol boxes have had a LT or other "secondary" HQ type (librarian/chaplain) rather than a Captain/capt equivalent. Also it makes sense if GW thinks they can get more money by selling the Dominus or the new Marshal separately. Im guessing the marshal has skitarii focused buffs and the Enginseer more robot/vehicle focused buffs.


Our 8th edition codex gutted us which resulted in up to 50% points decreases, so we are still under the former norm.

I wouldnt call engineseers second in command nor LTs, they are relic caddies at best.



   
Made in de
[DCM]
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Troops do not a price increase at all.
9 pts already feels to much fo skitarii. They are wet noodles and hit as such. Just today I had a game with 40 skitarii against an almost all infantry SoB army at 1500. I conceded after T2.
Skitarii litterally do nothing and might as well be guardsman most of the time.
A price increase? For what? The ability to shoot 2 shots at 30", yet have -1 to hit if you're forced to move?

Price increases definately are not in the book for me, especially considering how killy e.g. drukhari are now and how comparatively low durability our units are. Dunerider chassis still has no invuln. Everything is, in most cases, a 5++.

Data author of DA/AdM on Battlescribe
Report bugs here:
https://github.com/BSData/wh40k/issues 
   
Made in de
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





 Thairne wrote:
Troops do not a price increase at all.
9 pts already feels to much fo skitarii. They are wet noodles and hit as such. Just today I had a game with 40 skitarii against an almost all infantry SoB army at 1500. I conceded after T2.
Skitarii litterally do nothing and might as well be guardsman most of the time.
A price increase? For what? The ability to shoot 2 shots at 30", yet have -1 to hit if you're forced to move?

Price increases definately are not in the book for me, especially considering how killy e.g. drukhari are now and how comparatively low durability our units are. Dunerider chassis still has no invuln. Everything is, in most cases, a 5++.


You talk like you already know the 9th codex.
   
Made in de
[DCM]
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Well we saw the weapon previews.
We see how the previous codexes did shake out.

Based on the information available to us I do not think that price increases are appropriate, at least not blanket increases on Troops.

Data author of DA/AdM on Battlescribe
Report bugs here:
https://github.com/BSData/wh40k/issues 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

Thats why i agree with Thairne that the troops arent going up.
2 shots at 30" S4 AP1 (without the potential AP2 either) with heavy penalties isnt gamebreaking. Its good enough where they actually do something outside the 2-3 special weapons theyre toting around.

That is ALL i believe isnt going up though. No comment on Vanguard since we dont know any leaks about them, but the other stuff we do know is simply too big a boost to not get a couple points bumped.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench





 Vineheart01 wrote:
Thats why i agree with Thairne that the troops arent going up.
2 shots at 30" S4 AP1 (without the potential AP2 either) with heavy penalties isnt gamebreaking. Its good enough where they actually do something outside the 2-3 special weapons theyre toting around.

That is ALL i believe isnt going up though. No comment on Vanguard since we dont know any leaks about them, but the other stuff we do know is simply too big a boost to not get a couple points bumped.


Kataprhon weapons might get some adjustments, but even they i think are expensive compared to marines. If anything rangers and vanguard should go down in pts, not up. A Kabalite warrior has an identical profile to a ranger/vanguard a better standard weapon and more bonuses and support to be better than either for 8ppm.

I don't know why everyone thinks improvements mean points increases, I guess because historically thats been the way? I haven't looked into it specifically but both DE and DG 9th ed codexes nothing really changed in points, did it? Maybe even points decrease? certainly, troops' costs didn't change, and as far as I can see weapons are the same as well. I think this is mainly because the last blanket assignment of 5 or 10pts for weapon options was heavy-handed and made most weapons too expensive so now with the upgrades the weapons are actually more worth it.

I'm so frustrated with the pushing of the Enginseer tbh, it's so not fitting for the army to have a human in power army running things. They're essentially a mechanic, that's all, they're humans and super-humans (in the case of Tech-marines) taught to maintain specialised vehicles/equipment so the more senior, respected, Tech-priests can focus on the pursuit of that precious knowledge. Imagine a garage where the mechanics run the place while the foreman and managers just don't really give a crap or get involved to improve things. Abusive managers, which would actually be ironically expected of them lol. That's where we're at right now.

Having said that if the RR1 aura was moved from Dominus to Enginseer and they gave us something worthwhile on Dominus/Manipulus then at least the rules better fit the secondary leadership role they got shoehorned into. Doesn't stop me hating that they're not an admech model though
   
Made in gb
Stabbin' Skarboy





crewe

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Thats why i agree with Thairne that the troops arent going up.
2 shots at 30" S4 AP1 (without the potential AP2 either) with heavy penalties isnt gamebreaking. Its good enough where they actually do something outside the 2-3 special weapons theyre toting around.

That is ALL i believe isnt going up though. No comment on Vanguard since we dont know any leaks about them, but the other stuff we do know is simply too big a boost to not get a couple points bumped.


We have also dont have the full picture, like no where near close really. Rangers could have a special rule bolted on like a premove, ignoring negatives, raider style sniping. Rad Satuation could also increase to 3" range and Radium Carbines getting enhanced. But I dont think that warrants a pts increase. Dogmas, warlord traits and characters abilities would also make or break a lot of our units. Rangers could be absolutely monsters if the codex supports them properly and thats all I can hope for.

How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?  
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






If Cawl and Mars Canticle stay the same, I cannot see myself not spamming a crapton of Rangers and marching them as a blob of hyperefficient shooting.
   
Made in de
[DCM]
Aspirant Tech-Adept






would they actually be worth that?
I mean Heavy 2 5 -1 1 looks nice for 9 pts... Definately beats out Fire Warriors, but only by-1 AP and if you get the canticle.
Well ok and 1 better BS.

But us that actually spammable?

Data author of DA/AdM on Battlescribe
Report bugs here:
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Storm Trooper with Maglight





CO

I'm going to guess not

5k Imperial Guard
2k Ad Mech 
   
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






 Thairne wrote:
would they actually be worth that?
I mean Heavy 2 5 -1 1 looks nice for 9 pts... Definately beats out Fire Warriors, but only by-1 AP and if you get the canticle.
Well ok and 1 better BS.

But us that actually spammable?

BS3 and Cawl rerolls puts them on an entirely different plane, but Fire Warriors are 30" Rapid Fire 1 (Rifle) or 18" Assault 2 (Carbine), so Rangers have 12-15" more range.
   
Made in de
[DCM]
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Yeah if you add 270 pts to it
You gotta give that to the Tau too then, otherwise its a bit shrewd
And yes, while the new fully buffed profile under optimal circumstances is probaby the best troop weapon in the game - is that enough reason to spam it tho?
Because it takes, with Cawl and the canticle, 17 rangers (153 pts) to kill 5 MEQ out of cover or 25,5 rangers (230 pts) if the MEQ are in cover. Thats a lot of points.. not even considering gravis here. And thats not very efficient.
Against T3 the S increase doesnt matter and the -1 AP most of the time doesnt either since harlequins e.g. have an invul to fall back to anyway. Dunno about Drukhari, but all in all their shooting is still inefficient, points wise. Especially considering how easy they keel over themselves, how immobile they are and what other options we have.

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Report bugs here:
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Stalwart Tribune





Northumberland

I'd like the new codex to mean that you don't have to pick Cawl if you want to get anywhere.

One and a half feet in the hobby


My Adeptus Mechanicus Painting Log:
# The Explorator Fleet of Labrunnia IX #

 
   
 
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