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So, my brother is starting an armored company for his guard. He isn't doing the standard mech vets, but instead, trying to fit in a lot of armor. Some thing he is trying is outflanking sentinels to sneak side armors shots against against tanks. Right now, we are trying to decide weather to use auto cannons or multilasers. I personally like auto cannons because of the good strength, and AP4, but i dont want to discount extra shots. What does Dakka think? and again, these are primarily going to be outflanking to take rear/side armor shots. Thanks for any help.

My friend does a similar thing with AC's and hunter killer missiles. 6 S7 and 3 S8 shots usually do the trick on side armor. They do have a tendency to die after outflanking, so using the range on their AC's to keep away from trouble helps keep them alive. In a pinch you can outflank near a side objective and if its guarded by something weak like grots or something that just doesn't have access to things that can hurt it like dire avengers means you can charge in and tarpit/contest. Can be pretty shenanigous

Don't limit your choices. get magnets!
Gives you so many choices down the road, with no buyers remorse.

Magnetize, barring that, autocannons.

Autocannons and Hunter Killers are a great combo, if your tight on points though, just run the autocannons alone.

You can also try using a sticky adhesive like Blu-Tac if you don't want to magnetize it.

Ugh, HKs make it so expensive for a disposable/doomed unit.

If you aren't outflanking for sideshots on armor, there's no reason to take autocannons.

well, he is, so it sounds like the consensus is auto cannons. He does magnetize. Thanks a bunch for all the help!

Just to be different, multilasers all the way! Over several units its a pretty nice points savings.

Versus av 11, s7 pens 2/6 and has 2 shots. s6 pens 1/6 and has 3 shots. So only slightly less pens, more glances though. Range 36 versus 48 on a scouting/outflanking unit is not really an issue. Cheaper, as I said, and the extra shot also helps when firing at infantry.

DevianID wrote:Just to be different, multilasers all the way! Over several units its a pretty nice points savings.

Versus av 11, s7 pens 2/6 and has 2 shots. s6 pens 1/6 and has 3 shots. So only slightly less pens, more glances though. Range 36 versus 48 on a scouting/outflanking unit is not really an issue. Cheaper, as I said, and the extra shot also helps when firing at infantry.

Normally, i'd agree about keeping it cheap. But for the five points, it's worth it.

canadianone wrote:well, he is, so it sounds like the consensus is auto cannons. He does magnetize. Thanks a bunch for all the help!

Yeah, the magnets are good, the autocannons, not so much.

Scout sentinels outflanking suffer from two problems. The first is that they arrive late due to the rules for reserves. The second is that they leave early, due to having armor made of toilet paper and whispered secrets. Scout sentinels basically get one turn to make a serious splash. Outside of that, odds are, they're probably going to be pretty irrelevant.

So, you have to ask yourself, what are you likely going to accomplish with a single turn of autocannon fire. The answer is probably going to be not much. Why bother spending points on a unit that's not likely to have much of an impact on the game?

As such, there are basically two ways I can see outflanking scout sentinels being useful. The first is with a lascannon. Sure, it only hits half the time, but when it does hit, you've got a much better chance of doing a lot more damage to a much wider range of targets. This is also one of the few times I can see a HK missile as being worth it. The second way to use a scout sentinel is to use it for the fact that it's an outflanking walker, and can do things like tie up weak CC units and be a bother on your opponent's backfield objectives. In this case, the purpose of the sentinel is in fieldcraft, not in firepower, and, as such, no points should be spent at all other than the base cost of the sentinel itself. Upgrades are just going to make it more expensive without really making it more useful.

If they're going to be tank hunters, they should be taking Lascannons, the options you listed are good for infantry, however probably won't fare so good against medium and heavy vehicles.

Lascannon Sentinels are 50 points each. A Vendetta is superior in every possible way.

3 LC Sentinels get 1.5 hits, .25 glances, 1 pen v AV 11
3 AC Sentinels get 3 hits, .5 glances, 1 pen v AV 11.
3 ML Sentinels get 4.5 hits, .75 glances, .75 pens v AV 11

... and a Vendetta is still superior in almost every way.

V. AV 12
LCs get .25 glances and .75 pens
ACs get .5 glances and .5 pen
MLs get .75 glances

in short, buy a Vendetta, and I'll stop beating the deceased equine. Use flamers if you intend to charge something on the outflank, ACs if you want to shoot light and medium vehicles. I really don't think there is any other use for ordinary sentinels. Heavy Weapon Teams are nearly as durable and much cheaper.

The Grog wrote:Lascannon Sentinels are 50 points each. A Vendetta is superior in every possible way.

3 LC Sentinels get 1.5 hits, .25 glances, 1 pen v AV 11
3 AC Sentinels get 3 hits, .5 glances, 1 pen v AV 11.
3 ML Sentinels get 4.5 hits, .75 glances, .75 pens v AV 11

... and a Vendetta is still superior in almost every way.

V. AV 12
LCs get .25 glances and .75 pens
ACs get .5 glances and .5 pen
MLs get .75 glances

in short, buy a Vendetta, and I'll stop beating the deceased equine. Use flamers if you intend to charge something on the outflank, ACs if you want to shoot light and medium vehicles. I really don't think there is any other use for ordinary sentinels. Heavy Weapon Teams are nearly as durable and much cheaper.

While i agree with your overall opinion, they're asking for advice on a model's weapon load out, not which models to buy.

9 multilas is 4.5 hits, 1.5 pens versus av10. 3 vendetta is 2.25 hits. 1.875 pens, but half the glances. So the cheaper multilasers perform close to vendettas versus light armor, plus they can assault with 6 s5 attacks. And cheaper lol.

Ailaros wrote:

canadianone wrote:well, he is, so it sounds like the consensus is auto cannons. He does magnetize. Thanks a bunch for all the help!

Yeah, the magnets are good, the autocannons, not so much.

Scout sentinels outflanking suffer from two problems. The first is that they arrive late due to the rules for reserves. The second is that they leave early, due to having armor made of toilet paper and whispered secrets. Scout sentinels basically get one turn to make a serious splash. Outside of that, odds are, they're probably going to be pretty irrelevant.

So, you have to ask yourself, what are you likely going to accomplish with a single turn of autocannon fire. The answer is probably going to be not much. Why bother spending points on a unit that's not likely to have much of an impact on the game?

I'm going to have to disagree thar based on personal experience. Now I'm not saying that Sent's are a highly valuable unit or a "must take" or competitive etc. But I have seen outflanking (and sometimes not outflanking) sent's with AC's and HK's work really well.

The HK's are added on because the sent's are realistically only going to get one optimal volley- the turn they come in. That's when they are a) guaranteed to be full strength and b) the best chance of coming out and catching a enemy vehicle in the side/rear armor with 6 S7 shot and 3 S8 shots. Against AV10-12 side and rear armor its not too hard to get a some results. The other thing is the fact they are walkers means they can charge and have an AV value. In a team game recently me and a mate were pondering where to outflank his sents, and we started cackling with glee and one of the opposing team came across to see what was up, and simply went " you've got to be kidding me..." At the sent's about to charge their dire avengers isolated on an objective at the back of their flank! The chuckling really started when his serpent full of harlies got shot down way away from us. Goodluck at hurting AV10, S3 eldar! I have seen those things charge way more often than a shooty walker should. Rifleman/hellfire dreads get charged, shoot a vindicator coming on from outflank, immobilize it, it lets charge!, inf without grenades or S4 to hurt their AV10. Even against MEQ's I've seen them blow transports and charge the contents for an improvised tarpit.

Now, again- I don't see people winning tournaments and as they hold that trophy, look across at their sentinel's with a tear rolling down their cheek and think "Couldn't have done it without them!!!", but for a competitive bunch of friend or non tournament/FLGS environment, I think they're a worthwhile unit that for a few points has an ability to impact the battle and is really fun to use and makes for good games/memories

DevianID wrote:9 multilas is 4.5 hits, 1.5 pens versus av10. 3 vendetta is 2.25 hits. 1.875 pens, but half the glances. So the cheaper multilasers perform close to vendettas versus light armor, plus they can assault with 6 s5 attacks. And cheaper lol.

So the Vendetta is more mobile, tougher, and performs better against EVERY VEHICLE IN THE GAME. AV 10 is not light armor. AV 10 are disposable assault transports.

Honestly I'd pick a missle launcher for the versitality as lascanons are already covered by vendettas and weapon teams.

Shas'o Kias wrote:Honestly I'd pick a missle launcher for the versitality as lascanons are already covered by vendettas and weapon teams.

The AC getting 2 shots over the 1 shot of a ML makes the AC a better choice, IMHO.

The grog, my post shows that the vendetta is not necessarily better versus av10. Slightly more pens for half the glances, plus the sentinels can assault and are cheaper.

And while the vendetta is amazing and one of the real strengths of guard, completely dismissing sentinels off hand for all vendettas in 3 FA FOC is folly.

Ps, when the vendetta comes in from reserve it must move over 6 to fit on, limiting the shots to one. Sentinels dont have this issue.

From personal experience, AC Sents are great.

You're not throwing down a lot of point for it

More often than not you can score side and back hits on vehicles. Unless your shooting at Land Raiders, most of the time you'll be able to kill what you're shooting at.

You can bog down a unit in CC. If they aren't prepared to take out a suprise walker you can very well tie them up forever. Worst case scenario you charge a high S unit. Well chances are they'll score some pens. But guess what, there's a 33% chance that you'll blow up and spray s3 shots at the entire squad. S3 might not seem like a big deal, but if a 40 pt sentinel can tie up a group of tactical marines for a turn, and take out maybe 2 or 3 during the course of combat and when it blows up, I'd say it was worth it.

They're also great for screwing with your opponents target priority. An autocannon isn't something to be taken lightly.

So, scout sentinels have some interesting things they can do, so for weapon loadout, you have to filter those things out. Lascannon sentinels can get into close combat with S3 weaklings just as well as autocannon ones can.

The Grog wrote:Lascannon Sentinels are 50 points each. A Vendetta is superior in every possible way.

In every possible way when the only possibilities you're looking at is firepower per point.

Sentinels are much cheaper, which allows you to fill cracks in lists better, and sentinels can get into close combat, while vendettas don't even give you the possibility of tank shocking.

Vendettas are a HS choice in the FA slot. They exist for how much pure damage they put out per point. Scout sentinels are harassing units, which have different goals. Complaining about how few lascannon shots you get per point compared to a vendetta and then saying that they're bad is like looking at the number of lascannon shots you get out of squads of vets and saying "never take vets when you can take vendettas". When two different units have two different roles, you shouldn't only compare them on one metric.