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Do you you know that cheating gamer? that gamer that tries to win by screwing you over some how someway.

He does not put enough damage on his/her characters.... constantly.

Counts dice rolls incorrectly giving him/her more hits than they rolled?

We have a new gamer at the store that does this all the time and my group is getting a bit fed up with him.

Today while playing a civil war game and battle tech he insists be re-roll their dice if any part of the dice lops over the side of the table. Even if it is the corner of a die. But only insists this if it is a high roll.

If a die does not roll "correctly" (ie bounce enough to his liking) he will demand you to re-roll it. Again this only occurs if he can benefit from it.

If a die rolls on a rules cheat sheet he will demand that you re-roll it claiming the piece of paper gave it an unfair advantage. Once again, only does it when it is to his advantage.

We brought this up to him throughout many games. All he does is yell how smart he is because he watches a lot of history channel and science shows. I told him congradulations you now know aliens built the pyramids and probed Hitler which caused WWII and the Holocaust.


Now for the part that feels like someone stuck a razor blade up my ass.

He's 19 years old. He brings his mother down with him to enforce his bull crap ideas. Now, I just can't lash out and threaten to stop his ass for being a little jagbag. I tried to explain to his mother the situation.

But her little precious spoiled knows everything thanks to Sesame Street education is always right.

While reading this, if you are suggesting go to the store owner... well that would seems like the simple solution... right? we did. Turns out the kid and mother and very very good friends.

I really have no other alternative other than to bail out of the store and play somewhere else unless we can come to an agreement of sorts.


I wrote this letter/email to see if things can change

Dear xxxxxxxxxx,

I am writing on behalf of our game club that plays at your game shop every Saturday. It is apparent and with much arduousness that the shop's new customer has received special privileges that gives a competitive edge in every game on his command. I know we are simple folk who's education can never match that, of one who watches the History channel. But we can manage on how a game plays, and XXXX's manipulation of rules and dice rolls have made games unmanageable. We have been loyal customers. Some members of our club have been customers since 1962 when the store first opened.

I realize you just purchased the store last year from the original owner. You are still grasping the financial side of things and still trying to understand the idea of customer loyalty and appreciation. Therefore, if you do not ban XXXX from the game store or allow fair competitive game play back into the store our club will no longer be purchasing products from your store.

I know 12 customers may not seem like a lot to care about, but here is something to consider. I have averaged out the purchases made from your store from the past 5 years. Our members have spent $2,000-3,000 dollars a year each. or about $24,000-36,000 a year.

I can't tell you how to run your business. I hope you make the decisions that is best for yourself and other customers. Because I would hate to see another person join the unemployment line.



I have yet to send it, but, believe it is the only possible way.

His mom can't force you guys to play with him.

ÆΞØИ wrote:His mom can't force you guys to play with him.

No, he or she can't. But can annoy us until we do. Trying playing a game with a 500 lbs. woman that smells like cheap Guatemalan hotel hovering over you. Or a 19 year old kid who acts like a 3 year old until you play with him.

Battle of will.
When you guys win, you have broken him forever.

You will prevail over that scum right?

i feel very sorry for you.

btw, are there any other stores nearby, if so why not simply start going to those other stores?

You're letter is both sarcastic and not a little condescending to the store owner. I don't think it will occomplish what you desire perhaps the opposite. Letters are too formal and will come across as an ultimatum or threat, I wouldn't send it.

If everyone refuses to play with the berk that should hit the message home. If he has no one to play then he will either get bored and move on or perhaps change his ways.

Piston Honda wrote:

ÆΞØИ wrote:His mom can't force you guys to play with him.

No, he or she can't. But can annoy us until we do. Trying playing a game with a 500 lbs. woman that smells like cheap Guatemalan hotel hovering over you. Or a 19 year old kid who acts like a 3 year old until you play with him.

Seriously? Grow a pair. Don't play against him. If his mom tries to annoy you into it, ignore her. Just play against the people you know.

Another solution - someone make a table at home, and simply stop playing there. Making a table isn't hard at all, and you might start to enjoy not playing at the shop. After all, you won't be resricted by open hours.

Your letter sucks. Don't send it, it will have the opposite to the desired effect.

Look, this guy comes down to the store and makes things uncomfortable, right? He argues about dice rolls and gets his mum to come down and help him out.

Well, just stop letting him.

You're a grown man. If he wants a dice to be re-rolled simply say "No, I won't do that, the dice is flat and the result is fair" and then deal with the fallout. He might throw a tantrum and start screaming and yelling, holding his breath and stamping his feet, but so what?

Be firm.

I agree with Kaldor. Your letter, though worded very carefully, may just agitate the situation. It comes off as somewhat of a threat.


Just stop playing the guy. Seriously. Nobody makes you play against him. Don't play against him. Just don't.

For rolling dice, get a dice cup, or hell just take a red solo cup and roll your dice in that.


But really. Your best option is to not play him.

-Loki- wrote:

Seriously? Grow a pair.

A bit cliche, no?

Don't play against him. If his mom tries to annoy you into it, ignore her. Just play against the people you know.

Another solution - someone make a table at home, and simply stop playing there. Making a table isn't hard at all, and you might start to enjoy not playing at the shop. After all, you won't be resricted by open hours.

It's really not that simple as you make it out to be. We ignore him. We address our frustrations over and over to him and his mother. The only way we can actually get any gaming done is if one of us serves as the sacrificial pacifier. As stated earlier, the new shop owner does not help with the situation, if anything it is encouraged.

We do have game tables at home, but we also enjoy going down to the shop once a week as an outing.

Well, just stop letting him.

We've tried every time. You can't continue the game until he get his way or he will throw things, generally just dice.

And about my letter? What sucks about it? Condescending?

From a store owner who tells us to play nicely when we brought the issue up, being polite about it was the idea a week ago. And the week before that. And the week before that. And all those weeks before that too.

Well if he's that much of a berk just punch his fething lights out.

That's what wanted us to say right?

Are you sure the kid hasn't got some sort of issues that you're not being told about. People having tantrums and throwing stuff about at the age of 19 doesn't sound right to me.

Anyway, your letter is condescending in several places and likely won't get the result you are after at all.

Really you should just ignore him. You can't be forced to play him, I don't understand the point here. Just decline to game with him.

If you do play, insist upon the rules, lay down the law. If he throws a tantrum and stuff gets broken, well then you can have it out with the owner and this kid.

I suggest that you find a bit of space you can rent once a week and have the club meet there. The advantage to a private club is that you can ask people not to come back....

(to get somewhere cheap think outside the box. A lot of stadiums have meeting rooms that are empty during the week. Try political clubs that have premises, gyms, etc. It's not especially easy but it's well worth doing!)

I do agree that the letter's rather condescending - mostly the second paragraph, I think.

Main thing, don't play with the guy. At all. Ever. If he's throwing things, even if it's just dice at the moment, there's no guarantee that he won't escalate to throwing other things - like books, or other people's models. There's also the potential he could injure somebody that way - maybe point this out to the store owner, and mention the legal problems that could bring. Not in a threatening manner, just a "hey, you might not have considered this, but this could happen".

If ignoring the guy doesn't work, and the shop owner doesn't do anything about it, next time the guy and/or his mum start trying to bully you into playing, just start obviously packing your stuff up. If they ask what you're doing, just say something like "This is a game that's meant to be fun. You are making it not fun, therefore we are leaving." Preferably loud enough for the owner to hear.

By giving in to their demands all the time, you're just enabling them and reinforcing their bad behaviour. Stop doing that, and remove yourselves from the situation. Sure, you'll have to sacrifice some of your funtime at the shop - but if it's not fun because of these idiots, then you're not losing much of anything anyway. If you're really desperate to get your gametime in there, go get some food or something, then come back in an hour or so to see if they're still there. If they are, that day's probably a loss. If they've given up and gone away though, hey, all good.

Hopefully if you do it enough they'll get a clue.

notprop wrote:Well if he's that much of a berk just punch his fething lights out.

- How did I know that you were gonna say that

Piston Honda wrote:It's really not that simple as you make it out to be. We ignore him. We address our frustrations over and over to him and his mother. The only way we can actually get any gaming done is if one of us serves as the sacrificial pacifier.

We've tried every time. You can't continue the game until he get his way or he will throw things, generally just dice.

Nonsense. What are they going to do? Lay on the tables and prevent gaming until the son has a game? Physically bar people from setting up and rolling dice?

No. They might piss and moan, but so what? Deal with it. As soon as they stop getting their way, they'll stop going to the store.

So what if he throws dice? Just ignore him, refuse to play him, or simply start packing up if he throws a tantrum mid-game.

If you let them bully you into giving him a game, they'll just keep doing it.

And about my letter? What sucks about it? Condescending?

Tone and content, as well as some grammar errors.

Just leave the idea of a letter right alone.

Yeah, your letter is rather rude. Don't send it.

If your whole group are in the same boat, you basically team up and ignore him, or a persistent in your grievance, but a letter like that won't get you anywhere.

What I'd advise is if you really think you can't get away from him (bare in mind, you say there are 12 of you, ergo, equal numbers so a game each) say you're a clan and are preparing for upcoming games against other clans and to join your clan there is a $250 fee or something, then he won't be trying to join in.

I would go with the ignore at all costs approach. Go a bit early so that you are all set up to play and maybe underway with games by the time he arrives. If he whines about not having an opponent then that's just tough. Have your next round of games preplanned as well. That way he will have no reason to whine at you, as it's his own fault for being late on the scene.

Also, try organising a tournament in your club, where you have to fight all of the members of your club over a period of weeks. As he isn't a member of your club leave him out of the tournament line-up. If he asks to join in just tell him that he isn't a member of the club. If he asks to join the club then just tell him that, having played him in the past, he doesn't meet the required standards of sportsmanship as he cheats and makes the games thoroughly unpleasant for all of you. And make sure your club stand together as a unit on it. He'll soon realise his error and clean up his act, or leave.

The above advice is probably best. Make it clear you're not willing to play with someone who is ruining it for everyone. But I've known people who were not able to confront such people in person (this may be you, though I assume nothing). In such a case, here is a more edited letter that may be considered helpful rather than criticizing:



Dear xxxxxxxxxx,

As a long time customer, I have enjoyed my time in your shop (under previous and current management) and it has been a very welcoming establishment. Sadly, it seems that this atmosphere is deteriorating. It has become apparent, to both myself and other loyal customers, that certain customers have become very unkind and inhospitable, to the point where our time spent in the store is no longer enjoyable and becoming less and less a viable option. We have attempted mediation, but it is becoming increasingly strenuous and cooperation seems unlikely. I'm sure with proper steps from ownership to prevent bullying and unfair behavior, any differences between various customers and players can be overcome, but until such time, I foresee an unfortunate drop in myself and other's patronage to your store.

Sincerely,

PistonHonda,

A Concerned Customer



As the old saying goes, more flies with honey than vinegar.

Explain to him, not his mother, that you will not be playing him until he has embraced the notion of playing fairly. Remind him that a game should be enjoyed by both sides and that playing him as things stand, with him being elastic with the rules for his army, feels like playing a cheat and is not fun.

Do it calmly, do it without malice or raising your voice or becoming in any way agitated. Once you have calmly stated your position, resume your games with others and do not engage him or his mother in any attempt they make to argue...

Piston Honda wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

Seriously? Grow a pair.

A bit cliche, no?

Don't play against him. If his mom tries to annoy you into it, ignore her. Just play against the people you know.

Another solution - someone make a table at home, and simply stop playing there. Making a table isn't hard at all, and you might start to enjoy not playing at the shop. After all, you won't be resricted by open hours.

It's really not that simple as you make it out to be. We ignore him. We address our frustrations over and over to him and his mother. The only way we can actually get any gaming done is if one of us serves as the sacrificial pacifier. As stated earlier, the new shop owner does not help with the situation, if anything it is encouraged.

We do have game tables at home, but we also enjoy going down to the shop once a week as an outing.

Well, just stop letting him.

We've tried every time. You can't continue the game until he get his way or he will throw things, generally just dice.

And about my letter? What sucks about it? Condescending?

From a store owner who tells us to play nicely when we brought the issue up, being polite about it was the idea a week ago. And the week before that. And the week before that. And all those weeks before that too.

None sense, ok to me it sounds like you and your friends have tried for a long time, to Ignore the spoiled brat but, have you tried to ignore him for the whole day? my advice is try this and see how it go's and if he starts throwing dice (or models for the matter) then tell him he is being a spoiled brat and to stop it and if he go's crying to his mom/guy who runs store about that write down a list of what he constantly dose and give it to his mom/guy who runs store then tell him/her he has to improve the things on the list before he has another game with you.

If this doesn't work then tell him/her that you will not be bullied into a game with this lad for your spare time.

The letter is a last resort (NEVER do it until it becomes store owner becomes impossible), mainly as in paragraph 2 it sound like your black-mailing him and in third paragraph your telling the store owner his own profits (store owners Dont like either...)

Hope you win against this guy...

Don't send this letter. If he acts like a small kidd, he will not understand it. I'd play the games without him unless its a tourney. Just ignore his mother.

... I want to be sure I understand the situation.

Basically, you're being bullied by a 19 year-old mommy's boy.
You did behave as though he was a good-willing adult, you did try diplomacy... But you've been giving in up until now. Is that about right ? Because athough it sounds hardly credible, it comes across as that. The bit about him bragging about his general knowledge when you bring up his poor sportsmanship sounds like a non sequitur.

Well then, take it to the next step : confront him. Spank him like the spoiled little brat that he is, tell his awful mother to go feth herself because no, her little sweetie is not the second coming of the Messiah and he's ruining the fun for all the reasonable grown ups with his being TFG.

Or, if you really want to avoid confrontation and let him get away with it and since there seems to be no option left given that you've tried to be reasonable, send a letter to the storeowner. gunslingerpro's one to begin with ; not too alarmist or threatening, but a formal method should send the right message : "something is seriously wrong".
If he still refuses to step in to uphold common decency in his shop, send yours. It's an ultimatum, the last step before packing your stuff and not coming back. Because that's where it should come in the end if he has such poor business sense as to value his horrible friends more than his customers.

It bears repeating that giving in or not acting on your words (as in "For heaven's sake stop being such an obnoxious gak ! Hey, let's play some more together") at any moment is only going to weaken your position further.

-Loki- wrote:Grow a pair.

Alternatively, maybe you should bring your own mom.

The only way to resolve problems with people that simply will not act reasonably is just to distance yourself from them. Ignore him when he wants to play, explain why you are doing so when you can, and just leave the store if it gets out of hand.

It really IS that simple. If he cheats and is not fun to play against, don't play him, period. He might hang around and annoying you for awhile, but only because you've shown him that if he does that, you'll break down and play him. If you hold out, ignore him, ignore his mom, and don't give them what they want, they're not going to have a reason to keep coming back.

There must be more to this.

Why is it a problem to simply stop playing him?!?

Will he whine/cry/complain? So what! Just say "No"
Will his mother complain? So what! Just say "No"
Will the store owner try to MAKE you play him? So what! Just say "No"

"We don't want to play you. Go away"..and keep repeating it whatever he says.
Should the mother or store owner address you with such an issue....simply don't respond to them, turn to the guy and repeat the above sentence.

But as said....there must be more to this. How many people does the "we" in "we don't enjoy playing with him" really include? Is it perhaps just you?
Why on Earth haven't you introduced a dice box with the attached rule of "Every roll must land in the dice box"??

Lovepug13 wrote:

notprop wrote:Well if he's that much of a berk just punch his fething lights out.

- How did I know that you were gonna say that

It's because I always revert back to plan B (violence) isn't it? And if that doesn't work there is always plan B.

Give him and his mom both the silent treatment.
Treat like They.Dont.Exist

gunslingerpro wrote:The above advice is probably best. Make it clear you're not willing to play with someone who is ruining it for everyone. But I've known people who were not able to confront such people in person (this may be you, though I assume nothing). In such a case, here is a more edited letter that may be considered helpful rather than criticizing:

Dear xxxxxxxxxx,

As a long time customer, I have enjoyed my time in your shop (under previous and current management) and it has been a very welcoming establishment. Sadly, it seems that this atmosphere is deteriorating. It has become apparent, to both myself and other loyal customers, that certain customers have become very unkind and inhospitable, to the point where our time spent in the store is no longer enjoyable and becoming less and less a viable option. We have attempted mediation, but it is becoming increasingly strenuous and cooperation seems unlikely. I'm sure with proper steps from ownership to prevent bullying and unfair behavior, any differences between various customers and players can be overcome, but until such time, I foresee an unfortunate drop in myself and other's patronage to your store.

Sincerely,

PistonHonda,

A Concerned Customer

As the old saying goes, more flies with honey than vinegar.

Good letter! This is much more appropriate and much more likely to work with the store owner.

As for the mother and child, you need to politely and firmly refuse to play with him. It really is that simple.