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I have suffered a fairly grim tragedy this evening, and one that I know many of my fine gaming brethren will relate to, or maybe even have had the poor fortune to suffer as well. At about 18.25 today, my Playstation 3 decided it wasn’t satisfied with life anymore and promptly died whilst I was playing Skyrim. That horrible feeling of the light turning from green to yellow, to flashing red seized me and has left my PS3 as nothing more than a lifeless, frustrating brick. So, to Sony’s Customer Service I go with a serial number in hand and sadness in my voice.



Now before I go into detail about my most recent call, let me paint a tapestry of my history with Sony’s PS3. I purchased the Playstation 3 back when it first came out on the UK market, back in the olden times of March 2007 for the price of £425. I left my local gaming store with a new 60gb black box of joy and a copy of Motorstorm and Resitance: Fall of Man. I was, quite frankly, smitten.



In my tenure with Sony’s PS3, I imagine I have easily purchased thousands of pounds worth of hardware, software and games. I adore my Playstation 3 and I have logged several hundreds of thousands of hours on its HD joys. Then, one grim day in September 2009, the dreaded Yellow Light of Death struck!



Not as common as the Xbox’s notorious RRoD, the Yellow Light of Death is something that strikes many PS3 users and is quite frankly one of the most upsetting and frustrating things that can happen to a serious gamer. Calling Sony’s helpline, I discovered that it was probably ‘a malfunction of one of the systems inner components‘ and that Sony would happily give me a like-for-like trade on my system, provided I was happy to fork out £127.00 for the privilege.



Naturally, this is enormously irritating, especially for someone who has poured as much faith and hard capital into Sony for several years. I asked was there no way to waive the fees. I understood perfectly that my console was outside of Warranty, but I had been a faithful customer since the PSone and I genuinely feel that kind of loyalty should be rewarded.



The answer was No! £127 or no repair. The Disc that was also locked up in the console (The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion if you’re interested) would remain there until I was willing to cough up more money.

So I payed up. The entire process took a week. I lost my Saves and Data and my faith in Sony was tarnished. But still, I’m not one to hold a grudge and continued to buy and use Sony’s products. In the interim between then and now, I did however procure my Xbox 360, and only now do I realise that Sony’s poor stance on Customer Loyalty actually spurned my on to do so.



Now, back to this evening. I called Sony’s Helpline again and was connected to a pleasant sounding gentleman in India. I explained my situation in detail and pointed out that this would be my second refurbished model. The young chap said Sony would be more than happy to collect the faulty hardware from me and replace it with a like-for-like model in a dizzying turnaround of four working days.

If I pay a further £110 to cover pick-up, delivery, repairs and VAT that is.



I sighed, and explained to said chap that I am a more-than-loyal customer, and this is the second time Sony’s console has failed on me through no fault of my own. The young chap understood entirely, and was very sympathetic.



He’d be even more sympathetic if I handed over £110 to cover pick-up, delivery, repairs and VAT. And maybe his lunch, who knows.



I began to despair. At this point, I’m feeling very hard done by. Don’t get me wrong, I understand fully how Warranties work and I understand that all refurbished units come with a meagre three months of cover which I am quite clearly outside of. I do however have a wealth of experience in Customer Service as well, and can recognise when a true loyal customer is at the end of their tether with a service that have poured alot into. I have spent thousands of pounds on Sony. I choose to buy many of my games on PS3 as opposed to Xbox 360 out of loyalty. I will always say that the PS3 is my console of choice.



And it will continue to be so, assured the young chap on the phone, if I handed over £110 to cover pick-up, delivery, repairs and VAT.



I sighed and asked was there perhaps a manager I could speak to, maybe to discuss a one-off exception for someone who supported the Sony Playstation 3 for almost five years. I explained that I wasn’t happy, as the next refurbished console could do the same and I had already spent more than most on the physical console itself. The young chap explained a Manager would be happy to call me back, and listen to my concerns.



He would also ask me to hand over £110 to cover pick-up, delivery, repairs and VAT.



I then fell on the last line of defence we as consumers have: the formal complaint. It is both a much mired and much celebrated form of communique, both our greatest strength as consumers and our most falable weakness. Apparently, I would need to write to Sony’s Head Office (the address of which he could not provide me, or any of the timescales for that matter). I enquired into whether I could register my displeasure verbally as you can with most modern companies. The young chap explained that there was no Complaints Team I could speak to, it would just be a manager calling me back to discuss my concerns. The manager would call to ease my troubles and try and fix my problems.



All for the bargain price of £110 to cover pick-up, delivery, repairs and VAT.



So here I sit now, frustrated and angry, my PS3 glaring at me from across the room, Skyrim sitting lodged withtin (peculair coincedence I feel). I feel utterly powerless and a little used up by Sony. Here is a company I have been loyal to through three generations of hardware. I have spent a vast amount on its games and software and have very vocally defended it from naysayers and opponents. And now, when their product fails me and I am in need, I am alone, cast out and left with a black box that does nothing.



Unless of course I pay £110 to cover pick-up, delivery, repairs and VAT.



What is the point in this post. No doubt many of you are yelling ‘suck it up Sean, pay the money and stop your crying‘. I guess the point would be watch your loyalty folks. Companies do not care that you have been with them for vast spans of time. They care about the green, nothing more, nothing less. Customer Loyalty is a dirty phrase in this day and age and genuinely gets you nothing.



Unless of course, you pay £110 to cover pick-up, delivery, repairs and VAT.



- Sean ‘Genuinely aggravated‘ McCarter



This is a word for word post from our site at www.qotpa.com. Thanks for reading.

My advice: Make/get a gaming PC already.

Sucks about the saves, I know what it's like to lose progress like that. Loyalty doesn't mean jack to big companies, in little stores it means big, or if you have a damn rewards card for the store you always shop at.

Sell it all and take a hammer to the PS3?

Buy a PS4 which should operate them too?

PS3s fail as often as 360's, Sony files these complaints as "user-caused". the statistics saying that the 360 has a higher failure rate are technically incorrect.

If this makes you give up on Sony, you might as well give up on all gaming. Every system, console, handheld, desktop, or laptop are built the same way. Nothing is built to last and if you are out of warranty then you are out of luck. I admit I have seen less PS3s fail compared to 360s and even less PCs but they are still junk, every last one of them.

Of course keep in mind this extends to all electronic devices, auto-mobiles, furniture...ah to hell with it. Everything is junk.

Squidmanlolz wrote:PS3s fail as often as 360's, Sony files these complaints as "user-caused". the statistics saying that the 360 has a higher failure rate are technically incorrect.

Indeed, the massive hate between the two groups has generated such biased opinions that statistics are unreliable, but it is believed that the Wii has the lowest failure rate of all 3 major gaming devices. I'm sorry for your loss of your gaming device, I waited too long for another Xbox, but altogether gaming companies will screw every single penny they can from your wallet.

blood reaper wrote:

Squidmanlolz wrote: altogether companies will screw every single penny they can from your wallet.

Fixed that for you.

In fact, if they don't; the investors can sue for breach of Fiduciary responsibility.

SCE Website wrote:For UK customers only:

If you have attempted all troubleshooting and are still unable to resolve your query, you may have a non functional system. To reach us, please contact PlayStation Support 0844 736 0595 and a member of our team will be happy to help you. Calls may be recorded for quality purposes.

Postal Contact:

Consumer Services
Sony Computer Entertainment UK
PO BOX 2047
London
W1A 5HY

Email:

Please note that these email support addresses are only for UK consumers. Email submissions from consumers outside of the UK will not be supported.

You can contact us by email at - help@uk.playstation.com
For PSN related queries - networksupport@uk.playstation.com

Network Gaming Contact:

Should you need to contact us regarding anything to do with Network Gaming and you have been unable to find an answer to your query in the Knowledgebase, please call 0844 736 0595.

Note:

Please do not write to, or email us if you believe your PlayStation product is in need of service. We are unable to arrange any service requirement other than through the PlayStation Support number above.

The plot thickens!

Dark Lord Seanron wrote:I adore my Playstation 3 and I have logged several hundreds of thousands of hours on its HD joys. Then, one grim day in September 2009, the dreaded Yellow Light of Death struck!

You spent over 11 years continuously playing your PS3? It's no wonder that the system gave out.

Rather than considering how long you've had it, consider how much playability you got out of the machine. If it crapped out after a few hundred hours I'd be upset. After a few thousand, not so much.

Yep, even the best of hardware will fail after thounds of hours. Bought a re-furbised original Xbox 360. Never got the RRoD until five and a half years later.

Friends went through 2 or more and I still had mine until it exploded, well more like had a meltdown. It failed in an epic matter. I wasn't the least bit peeved though as I definatly got my worth outta that thing.

Liking the new Gears edition box.

I completely understand the loyalty aspect. I get it. But you did kind of run that thing into the ground.

Gaming systems should have warranties like cars. 2 years or 2,000 hours.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

biccat wrote:You spent over 11 years continuously playing your PS3? It's no wonder that the system gave out.

I assume you meant 11 in the 1+1=2 style. (He bought it in 2007.)

Squidmanlolz wrote:PS3s fail as often as 360's, Sony files these complaints as "user-caused". the statistics saying that the 360 has a higher failure rate are technically incorrect.

I would dispute this claim. I know many people with either a PS3 or 360, or both, and I know many people that have had their Xbox's fail with an RRoD, in some cases I know people who have had multiple RRoD's in their history with the 360 in some cases across separate consoles (as in they replaced existing consoles with new ones and that failed to). I only know one person (myself) who has had their PS3 fail... and my console only failed because it was, quite literally, struck by lightning this past summer... I've had the thing since around 2006/2007 and considering the failure was caused by an external factor (quite literally being fried and set on fire by an overvoltage that also wrecked 3 tvs, 2 computers, the houses entire electrical circuitry and other electronic gear... and in the end the problem turned out to only be a fried HDMI port and not anything else...) I would say its pretty reliable. Compare to 360s that have RRoD'd within months of purchase...

I never got the RRoD i got it but just turned it off and then turned it back on... worked fine.
Overheating was a much worse problem. The 2 red lights were a curse, my room gets really hot in summer.

pretre wrote:

biccat wrote:You spent over 11 years continuously playing your PS3? It's no wonder that the system gave out.

I assume you meant 11 in the 1+1=2 style. (He bought it in 2007.)

I think he means as in there are approx 8,760 hours in a year. To have logged 'hundreds of thousands' of hours presumably means having played said console for a decade or more.

filbert wrote:

pretre wrote:

biccat wrote:You spent over 11 years continuously playing your PS3? It's no wonder that the system gave out.

I assume you meant 11 in the 1+1=2 style. (He bought it in 2007.)

I think he means as in there are approx 8,760 hours in a year. To have logged 'hundreds of thousands' of hours presumably means having played said console for a decade or more.

This.

I could also say that by 11 I meant 3.

The PS3 has been out for under five years in the UK.

I'm on my second Xbox, still on the first PS3, but it's rarely on for games and is pretty much a Blue Ray player when I can be bothered turning it on.

The thing about running it into the ground is irrelevant. If you buy a lot of games (new, not pre-owned) for a console you are giving sony/microsoft/nintendo some moolah and subsidising their console. Especially as it gets cheaper. I believe the PS3 relies heavily on game sales as it sells at a significant loss in comparison to Xbox or the Wii.

Most games companies have dubious customer service standards from my experience. You can see it in the technology and more specifically the games. Releasing heavily bugged or broken games is poor customer service. Patching should not be acceptable IMHO. The internet has made developers lazy. /offtopicrant

Kilkrazy wrote:The PS3 has been out for under five years in the UK.

Bloody hell, has it been that long? Well it's just under... but only by about 2 months... and a bit... but still, time marches on.

Kilkrazy wrote:The PS3 has been out for under five years in the UK.

Medium of Death wrote:Bloody hell, has it been that long? Well it's just under... but only by about 2 months... and a bit... but still, time marches on.

Much more entertaining when you picture any interaction KK has at the moment with these.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Squidmanlolz wrote:PS3s fail as often as 360's, Sony files these complaints as "user-caused". the statistics saying that the 360 has a higher failure rate are technically incorrect.

I would dispute this claim. I know many people with either a PS3 or 360, or both, and I know many people that have had their Xbox's fail with an RRoD, in some cases I know people who have had multiple RRoD's in their history with the 360 in some cases across separate consoles

I concur. In my anecdotal evidence, I know dozens of people at my job who posses one of these systems. I don't know anyone who has had a PS3 failure, and virtually every 360 owner has had at least one replacement (my former coworker, who is also the heaviest console gamer I know, claimed to be on his third one... but he's an inveterate liar so who knows).

I own all 3 systems. Only my 360 has failed, and despite us very rarely using it. I am hardly a Sony fanboy - quite the opposite. I generally shun their products due to their persistent, decades long effort to try and lock customers into their electronics by using proprietary schemes (weird plugs, ATRAC instead of MP3, memory stick whatevers instead of SD, etc etc etc) and I rather like Microsoft products, especially their mice (with a few exceptions). That being said, the 360 is a dog, at least up until the changed architecture of the slim.

There was a report a while back that the 360 hardware failed at an astounding rate of 54%. Microsoft made a response shortly thereafter saying a lot of generic nonsense, but they never said it wasn't true. My feeling is that, were it not true, they would say so, and they would also likely sue Game Informer or whatever magazine ran that. They did neither. To me, that is confirmation the 360 is crap.

I have had no Problems with my PS3 yet granted ive had it for only 8 months but compared to my 4 xboxs ive owned since 2007 id say PS3 isn't as fragile and granted i dont pay my PS3 as much as my xbox which could also come into play. Reading your post it bothered me that you actually thought being loyal for however long to a gaming company they would actually care... as you can see they don't... Also to think that your special or different from the rest of the sheep to recieve benefits like getting a refurbished ps3 free of charge. I havent checked but when i had Xbox you could buy warranty for like 50 - 60 dollars for ayear so if it did crap out you could get it a new one which was convenient, Only benefit in Xbox was being able to take the disc out, Depending on the problem. Humourous enough i never got RRoD, I got every other problem which was awesome = D But i would defianlty check to see if they have a warranty deal thing you could purchase, as i can see you play your ps3 loads... anyways thats my 2 cents

Cheers

Lord Scythican wrote:If this makes you give up on Sony, you might as well give up on all gaming. Every system, console, handheld, desktop, or laptop are built the same way. Nothing is built to last and if you are out of warranty then you are out of luck. I admit I have seen less PS3s fail compared to 360s and even less PCs but they are still junk, every last one of them.

Of course keep in mind this extends to all electronic devices, auto-mobiles, furniture...ah to hell with it. Everything is junk.

I have to disagree with this. My MegaDrive and SNES still work like new.

It only tends too be the newer consoles which die early. It's because, compared to the earlier 8 and 16bit consoles, they are so highly strung and running on the edge at all times. Frankly, it's amazing that they last as long as they do! You could maybe compare them to owning a Ferarri or a Lambourghini. They have to be used as little as possible and mollycoddled at all times. Even then, they will break down eventually.

My advice? Buy and use them by all means. Just be prepared to fork out for repairs.

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:

Lord Scythican wrote:If this makes you give up on Sony, you might as well give up on all gaming. Every system, console, handheld, desktop, or laptop are built the same way. Nothing is built to last and if you are out of warranty then you are out of luck. I admit I have seen less PS3s fail compared to 360s and even less PCs but they are still junk, every last one of them.

Of course keep in mind this extends to all electronic devices, auto-mobiles, furniture...ah to hell with it. Everything is junk.

I have to disagree with this. My MegaDrive and SNES still work like new.

It only tends too be the newer consoles which die early. It's because, compared to the earlier 8 and 16bit consoles, they are so highly strung and running on the edge at all times. Frankly, it's amazing that they last as long as they do! You could maybe compare them to owning a Ferarri or a Lambourghini. They have to be used as little as possible and mollycoddled at all times. Even then, they will break down eventually.

My advice? Buy and use them by all means. Just be prepared to fork out for repairs.

Fair enough. I should clarify that I am referring to stuff made today. My dad's Nokia phone (1st Gen) still works fine. Old cars are good. Any of you no that old guy in your neighbourhood that is still using a lawn mower from the 70's? Get a new mower and it goes kuput in a few years.

Wasted weeks on ylod figuring out how to fix it and how it ocurred(same with you OP, first gen ps3) and the shipping+repair with sony would
be around 160 euros(a new ps3 is 250 lol)

As soon as i knew the ylod and how to fix it i grabbed my blowlamp and heated the GPU and CPU processor and it worked!
happy playing games again since last december

Thanks for the replies guys, it was typed in that rage-state that usually follows a console breaking

Well, I have to say that, on the topic of 360 v. PS3, my current 360 has gotten the bad RRoD (3 segments lit up) about 3 times so far. I don't want to update to the slim, I want to stick with the original. My friends PS3 has only frozen, which was solved by a simple restart.

However, I got far more use out of my Xbox, playing around 3 hours a day v. my friends 30 minutes to 1 1/2 hours a day. I have to say, for the product, I find the Xbox far more enjoyable. I would never ever purchase a product for it's survivability qualities; a PS3 just feels clumsy and sluggish. It gets the job done, but it just doesn't suit my on the edge gaming, where I need a reaction and I need it then, the Xbox simply performs best.

Squidmanlolz wrote:PS3s fail as often as 360's, Sony files these complaints as "user-caused". the statistics saying that the 360 has a higher failure rate are technically incorrect.

Dont want to argue or call you out or anything, but Ive never once read anywhere, that agrees with what you said. Do you have some sources for that? Ive even read in a couple gaming/PC's magazines that have pretty much, within a few numbers, been bang on with one another.

Wii's failure rate was some super low 11%ish
PS3 was a little under/over 20%
And 360 was usually around the 50%-60% failure

Is it just me, or do game consoles die way too quickly these days compared to older generations?

My N64, NES, SNES, Genesis, Atari original game all still work.

Piston Honda wrote:Is it just me, or do game consoles die way too quickly these days compared to older generations?

My N64, NES, SNES, Genesis, Atari original game all still work.

These systems have very, very little in common mechanically with modern consoles. The NES uses a very simple processor with around 3500 transistors. As such, it generates very little to no heat, generally - it has no cooling of any kind, not even a passive heatsink. By contrast, the PS3 processor is half the size and has 234 million transistors. This means that it gets hot - extremely hot. It requires very aggressive cooling via a fansink. Even still, the inside of a modern console is like an oven. Over time, this will cause components to fail (at the very least, the bearings on the cooling fan will go).

The reason the 360 failed so frequently, prior to it's current iteration, was that it had inadequate cooling. The GPU was mounted onto the board via a technique called a ball-grid array: little drops of solder were printed onto the pins, the board was heated, the GPU was dropped onto it. The 360's inadequate cooling made the inside of it so hot that the joins would actually liquify while in use. Over time the motherboard begins to warp, and the GPU - which didn't have strong enough retaining clips - begins to float off the board, and contact is broken. That is one major cause of a RROD error.

Saying modern consoles are less reliable is true, but it's also akin to saying a paper airplane requires less maintenance than a 747.

Ouze wrote:

Piston Honda wrote:Is it just me, or do game consoles die way too quickly these days compared to older generations?

My N64, NES, SNES, Genesis, Atari original game all still work.

These systems have very, very little in common mechanically with modern consoles. The NES uses a very simple processor with around 3500 transistors. As such, it generates very little to no heat, generally - it has no cooling of any kind, not even a passive heatsink. By contrast, the PS3 processor is half the size and has 234 million transistors. This means that it gets hot - extremely hot. It requires very aggressive cooling via a fansink. Even still, the inside of a modern console is like an oven. Over time, this will cause components to fail (at the very least, the bearings on the cooling fan will go).

The reason the 360 failed so frequently, prior to it's current iteration, was that it had inadequate cooling. The GPU was mounted onto the board via a technique called a ball-grid array: little drops of solder were printed onto the pins, the board was heated, the GPU was dropped onto it. The 360's inadequate cooling made the inside of it so hot that the joins would actually liquify while in use. Over time the motherboard begins to warp, and the GPU - which didn't have strong enough retaining clips - begins to float off the board, and contact is broken. That is one major cause of a RROD error.

Saying modern consoles are less reliable is true, but it's also akin to saying a paper airplane requires less maintenance than a 747.

Thanks

Why does the number of transistors cause an increase in heat? (or does it?) Do the transistors cause the rise in heat directly? Do other things cause heat in modern systems?

Has cooling technology been on the forefront of next gen systems?

I'm on my 3rd Xbox 360.

I played the hell out of my first xbox and even survived a flood.

It still works.

Modern systems just seem to have a glass jaw in comparison.