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Made in us
Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

This comes courtesy of Beasts of War:

Beasts of War wrote:The 40K Heretics Rulebook is Real… Only it’s Not!

Yes… you heard that correctly. After a lot of digging and snooping around the inside of the great citadel (or should that be Citadel) that is Games Workshop, we have some very interesting news about the so-called Heretics 40K Rulebook… or the 6th Edition Leak for those with little flair for the dramatic!

It turns out that this is in fact an actual early version of the 6th Edition rules… but not quite. Apparently the Design department were let loose on the 40K system… they were allowed to try anything they fancied… we’re told that nothing was off the table. This “no-holds-barred” version was then edited down with the truly unworkable ideas removed and those that could prove to be exciting or contentious left in to be play-tested… so was born the Heretics 40K Rulebook!

This version was sent to trusted play-testers. Who like all trusted minions… were turned by the promise of power… or in this case internet notoriety and likely splurted the document all over the web!

I actually found this explanation to be not just more plausible (than the lone gunman theory) but a real breath of fresh air from the ‘Ivory Citadel’, and to me at least it shows a high level of innovation within the design team, and also shows that there is no shortage of ideas knocking around in there.

Word has it the design team had a real blast with this iteration of the rules (loved it apparently) but spotted alot of potential for asshats to ruin it for everyone else with unbalanced lists etc.

And there you have the crux of the issue the design team face, they could probably create a massively fun game at the drop of the hat, and simple folk like me wold love them dearly for it, but alas there is a whole other side (some say dark, Darrel says only!) to our hobby and that is the competitive win at all costs play.

So, fun as they may be, they’re not the final (or indeed likely to be anything like the complete) rule set for 6th edition… but what were we told about the actual 6th Edition Rules?

Well some really interesting stuff. For a start here’s what will not be included from the Heretics Rulebook:

Evasion Values are Out – well this was a given… I’m sure every Dark Eldar player was praying for the day that their skimmers and flyers didn’t fall over in a stiff breeze, but that’s not all. Our Man in Havana has told us that Dark Eldar players will be very pleased with the 6th Edition updates.
Could that mean an overhaul of the skimmer rules… could it mean more deadly flyers?
Of course it could mean one, both or neither. However, more robust transports would make the Dark Eldar much more deadly… so keep your eyes peeled for more revelations.

The Turn Sequence will remain the same – The biggest shake-up and the one that would mean a rewrite of Assault weapons and the death of certain “shooty armies” ( Tao ), was the turn structure that put charging/melee before shooting. I would say it was unrealistic, but in a world of extra-terrestrial and supernatural horrors, where mankind has moved to the stars… that’s probably a bit redundant.
Anyway… the turn structure will remain the same as it is now.

No Unit by Unit Activation – Yup that was pretty disappointing for me, (but who knows everything we have been told could well be misinformation too!) I was sooo looking forward to faster more intricate games with that option.

Gargantuan Creatures will remain with Forge World & Apocalypse Games – That’s right… probably no supersized tanks and critters for the main rulebook… but does that mean we won’t get any Aracknarok-sized monsters?
Well it hasn’t been ruled out, and as Land Raiders are already that size, it’s doesn’t take a genius to think we’ll be getting more big kits.
In fact that was one of the discussions… we all like to gripe about GW prices.

However, it was explained that GW are investing all the time in new kits, new moulds, more people (sculpting team is largest its ever been apparently) and a bigger and better gaming experience… you can take that at face value if you wish… but if it means more plastic kits (and fewer Finecast), and more big bad creatures and machines is it worth it?

So who will be writing this new 6th Edition Rulebook I hear you cry?

Well as you can imagine the creation of a new rule set of this scale is a team effort… but some poor soul has to captain this vessel… so who is it?

Well… that really is top secret and even we couldn’t get the name (and you can’t use thumbscrews these days!)… but we did find out who it isn’t.

So here are a few names who might be involved, but won’t be the lead writer… Matt Ward, Robin Cruddace and Phil Kelly… but if not one of them… then who?

Will you need an update to your existing Codex when 6th Edition launches?

We’re told that the new rule book was written to take into account the latest releases and so there’s no need to post a massive errata.
However, we know that there are many codices that need a revamp. So I’m very sceptical that there will be “no need for an FAQ”.

Although I’m always prepared to be proven wrong.

So, there you go… that was an interesting conversation… and it doesn’t stop there.

We got some more great bits of info that we’ll be able to share with you… but not quite yet… you’ll need to be patient.

However, until then… feel free to speculate all you want… or post a question. Perhaps we can call a few guys and see if we can get you the inside track.

Big caveats on this guys, in that while we’re confident that the contents of the article are accurate you are relying on our sources, and… well… there could be many ways in which it may not be accurate (not necessarily deliberate by a source either!) so take it that its just part of the business these days that while we do our best, there are no guarantees!

All of that aside, is the Heretics 40K Rulebook good enough, different enough to warrant a following of its own? (I’m so tempted its unreal!)

BoW Warren


<swapped an italics tag for a quote tag, to make the post more readable; I have old eyes. --Janthkin>

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/27 21:25:52


   
Made in de
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germany,bavaria

Reecius wrote:This comes courtesy of Beasts of War:


It turns out that this is in fact an actual early version of the 6th Edition rules… but not quite. Apparently the Design department were let loose on the 40K system… they were allowed to try anything they fancied… we’re told that nothing was off the table. This “no-holds-barred” version was then edited down with the truly unworkable ideas removed and those that could prove to be exciting or contentious left in to be play-tested… so was born the Heretics 40K Rulebook!

- Evasion Values are Out
- The Turn Sequence will remain the same
- No Unit by Unit Activation
- Gargantuan Creatures will remain with Forge World & Apocalypse Games


So here are a few names who might be involved, but won’t be the lead writer… Matt Ward, Robin Cruddace and Phil Kelly… but if not one of them… then who?


So 6th is different from this "no-holds-barred" version... isn't a surprise as this PDF always was incomplete.
What is not 'out' does stay? I could think of a few more things to 'drop'.
We'll see in the finished publication I guess as there won't be another leak.

Who is the lead designer if those 3 wellknown gamedesigners aren't it?

Target locked,ready to fire



In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





the fact that they aren't overhauling the basic turn structure saddens me. I really wanted pre measuring in 40K. I think that the lack of it contributes to a great deal of asshattery in tournaments.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Steelcity

Hey now.. Just because medieval war machines can have pin point precision doesn't mean that space marines 40,000 years in the future should know how far away the enemy is with their hi-tech auto-senses

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/26 21:57:55


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South New Jersey

Well, at least this'll stop everyone from planning army lists for 6th edition.

   
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Southeastern PA, USA

As I said in the other thread, I've been wondering if that batch of rumors from a few months back actually represents a more evolved ruleset.

Note though that I'm not trusting a lot of these 'sources' right now. GW does have a motive for spreading disinformation.

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So TL;DR version, 6th edition is just going to be 5.5 sighs. You had me going there for a while GW, I actually was interested in these rules, now it's back to FOF, cold war gone hot. =o]

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Between Alpha and Omega, and a little to the left

Aw, but I liked the EV rules. It actually nerfed stand back and shoot armies

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The Great White North

Well at least Matt ward isnt the lead writer! Thats one saving grace for 6E right off the top. There could still be some glimmer of inspiration on this version.... As long as the blood Angels and Necrons are working together so much the better.

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South New Jersey

I think it's worth asking - say BoW is right. How many people with stick with HereticHammer (we need to get this name to stick), instead of shelling out the money for 5.5?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/26 22:15:21


   
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I'm not sure I really saw any more potential in Heretic Edition for WAAC exploitation than exists in 5th - although that's more an indictment of 5th than an endorsement of Heretic Edition.

Anyways, I'll keep my hopes up that GW doesn't stray too far for this, and hopefully the changes they made will be improvements rather than just returns to the status quo. The leaked rules reinvigorated my interest in 40k, and I'm not sure I'll be able to continue with the game if 6th ends up looking too much like 5th.
   
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Been Around the Block




Thanks for sharing this but there are literally rumors and counter rumors on everything these days. I don't feel like we can trust anything.
   
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infinite_array wrote:I think it's worth asking - say BoW is right. How many people with stick with HereticHammer, instead of shelling out the money for 5.5?


I'd have to read 5.5.. but my money would be on my local group staying a Heretic (if these rumors be true).

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The Great White North

Nerfed stand back and shoot armies? Who the Tau? Every other army I know off all want to chew face as fast as possible since you can wipe a whole battalion of guys out by winning a single round of combat.

DE = Rush
Nids = Rush
Orks = Rush
BA = Rush

Tau = Stand and shoot while falling back like panzies as they are being out shot by a CC army lol...

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FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

So TL;DR version, 6th edition is just going to be 5.5 sighs


No, it won't. If what we have is indeed a GW product, and even if evasion is gone, we're still left with reasonably clean rules that are miles better than 5th.


And I actually doubt this jumbled, incoherent "rumor", if only because GW never cared for asshats making asshat armies before, and I don't see why they'd start caring now. That's the last reason GW would not print or make something.
   
Made in ca
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The Great White North

I would like to see GW hand out free 6E editions in if you trade back your 5E.... Like the Flames of War guys do....

Oh wait, nevermind... I forgot GW only cares about money and not its fans.

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Milisim wrote:Nerfed stand back and shoot armies? Who the Tau? Every other army I know off all want to chew face as fast as possible since you can wipe a whole battalion of guys out by winning a single round of combat.

DE = Rush
Nids = Rush
Orks = Rush
BA = Rush

Tau = Stand and shoot while falling back like panzies as they are being out shot by a CC army lol...

Guard = Sit inside MEHTAL BAWKSES in the corner while flinging underpriced pie plates.
SW = Long Fangs, that's all I need to say

Want to help support my plastic addiction? I sell stories about humans fighting to survive in a space age frontier.
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Vancouver BC Canada

His Master's Voice wrote:
FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

So TL;DR version, 6th edition is just going to be 5.5 sighs


No, it won't. If what we have is indeed a GW product, and even if evasion is gone, we're still left with reasonably clean rules that are miles better than 5th.


And I actually doubt this jumbled, incoherent "rumor", if only because GW never cared for asshats making asshat armies before, and I don't see why they'd start caring now. That's the last reason GW would not print or make something.



Damn straight, if they sell more models, they don't care how broken or nurfed the army is. As long as it's selling more space marine....I mean models.... comeon don't you want to start a Space Marine army?...doesn't everyone?

CATS- How are you gentlemen?
CATS- All your base are belong to us.
CATS- You are on the way to destruction.
Captain -What you say?
CATS- You have no chance to survive make your time.
CATS HA HA HA!!

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Hi%20Welcome



 
   
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Lame. I liked the shook up turn structure. Probably will quit 40k now.


If only ZUN!bar were here... 
   
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Fixture of Dakka





Moore, Ok.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Lame. I liked the shook up turn structure. Probably will quit 40k now.


There's an original response.....

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I wouldn't mind them dropping the things they stated, though I would prefer charging to happen in the movement phase, then the combat fought in the "assault" phase. T'would help keeping assaulters protected, but isolated from shooting support the rest of their army. It's crap that one can whittle down a squad with an army right before a charge. Maybe "only the unit that's charging can shoot at the target unit" would be fine. I dunno. wait and see, I suppose.
   
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Nashville, TN

Whew, I'm just glad I don't have to sit through a BoW video to get some info. Sketchy info that it may be.

I don't understand how the change in turn sequence kills shooty armies. Shooty-then-Assaulty armies yes, but not straight shoot em ups.

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FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

So TL;DR version, 6th edition is just going to be 5.5 sighs. You had me going there for a while GW, I actually was interested in these rules, now it's back to FOF, cold war gone hot. =o]


And Brushfire! Don't forget Brushfire! I have to say that if this is true (and there's no reason it's not) I'm disappointed and looking forward to someone publishing a cleaned-up version of the "Heretic's Rulebook". Who's game?

What harm can it do to find out? It's a question that left bruises down the centuries, even more than "It can't hurt if I only take one" and "It's all right if you only do it standing up." Terry Pratchett, Making Money

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Whorelando, FL

Meh, I guess continuing play testing these rules is pointless now.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

   
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The Great White North

It would make more sense that the unit charging into h2h CANNOT shoot regardless of weapons being Assault or not... The soldiers are trying to put that gear away while pulling out CC weapons..... Changing it to Move, Assault and then Shoot is not intuitive to combat. H2H is always a last ditch effort and thus should be the last phase of a turn.

Im not sure how to fix the assault phase though... 40k assault has always been crap since RT days.... always the worst phase of the game.

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Gavin Thorne wrote:I have to say that if this is true (and there's no reason it's not) I'm disappointed and looking forward to someone publishing a cleaned-up version of the "Heretic's Rulebook". Who's game?

I was planning to try to do something like that if 6th deviated too far from Heretic Edition. Still might. GW did officially disavow these rules, didn't it? So we should be clear of copyrights to edit & re-release, since they said it isn't theirs?
   
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Been Around the Block




Posit wrote:I'm not sure I really saw any more potential in Heretic Edition for WAAC exploitation than exists in 5th - although that's more an indictment of 5th than an endorsement of Heretic Edition.

Anyways, I'll keep my hopes up that GW doesn't stray too far for this, and hopefully the changes they made will be improvements rather than just returns to the status quo. The leaked rules reinvigorated my interest in 40k, and I'm not sure I'll be able to continue with the game if 6th ends up looking too much like 5th.


Quoted for truth.

My interest in 40k has seriously been waning of late, and the leak helped bring me back. I'm really disappointed now, but am still hopeful that this is just GW trying to throw us off the scent...

-Jeff
   
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While the news is disappointing I'm still looking forward to 6th. Considering what freedom the design team was given I'm still intrigued by what they may deliver.

   
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New York / Los Angeles

Oh well.
At least if 6e comes out and it's exactly leakhammer, I can be pleasantly surprised by GW for once.

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