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2018/01/07 03:29:26
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
MrMoustaffa wrote: It's always "huh I need more guardsmen" or " huh, maybe another Russ would help."
That was a good read, ta!
I'll try out "mo russes mo peeps" when I get the chance (just hopped over to battlescribe after reading) but I have seen tricksy things like bullgryn, crusaders, Primaris casting psychic barrier do a lot of work online. I guess that's the joy of guard, a completely vanilla force is still very effective!
Run a whole lot of wfrp and other rpg's, play The Woods and Kill Team, gather and look mournfully at imperial guard knowing I'll never finish enough to use them on the tabletop
2018/01/07 21:27:07
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
I'm sure the shenanigans stuff is powerful, it wouldn't be used if it wasn't. I'm just doing what I know and don't have enough experience with things like pyskers to use them properly yet.
So don't take my word as gospel, it's just observations from a guy who is used to running infantry.
To give you an idea, I took a primaris pysker yesterday for the first time in 3 years and forgot to do my pyschic phase every turn. I ended up just assaulting things with his force stave and killing bikes I know for a fact the pysker can be good, I'm just really bad at using him. Same for things like ogryns and Celestine. I don't own them so they don't compute as something I could try most of the time
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
2018/01/07 21:39:17
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
godardc wrote: I have just received my codex, and I'm now writting an armoured company list. I'm interested in hearing about executioner leman russes with plasma sponsons: 2d6 (1d6 shots twice) + 2d3 shots of overheated plasma seem quite good !
With the reroll order and the tallarn doctrine for the sponsons (I have already decided my doctrine will be tallarn).
The punisher seems pretty good too, killing about 15 gaunts/orks a turn with heavy bolters sponsons.
It will only get to fire once, because once an opponent sees 2d6+2d3 plasma shots and a lascannon come from a single tank they will do everything in their power to kill it. I have seen mine kill a repulsor in a single phase like it was a joke, not to mention it absolutely murders things like primaris or dreads. It's a bit pricey, but they hit so hard I cannot complain. If any tank is going to be your commander, it's an executioner. It is expensive though for arguably even less survivability, so make sure you're cool with it dying a lot, because it will rarely live to turn 3.
The issue is compared to a LRBT, they will fire far less, but they will be far more spectacular for that 1-2 turns of shooting they get. I would absolutely make it a tank commander but try running several normal russe's and keep the executioner away from fire for the first turn or two. The executioner excels at the "I want that dead NOW" role and really shines when used to hunt a key Target or stop a breakthrough. If you park it in the open turn 1 on the front line it will go down hard.
Building from that, there's a local group that I found that's a bit more competitive so I've been trying out random things. They play ITC missions and are preparing for some event in Tennessee, so they've been going pretty hard, primarily eldar and necrons. I'm curious, how are you guys running pure/mostly pure guard dealing with shenanigans like -1/-2 to hit abilities? Because my solution seems to be just bring more guns. I tried being clever and it didn't go well, but when I added more tanks and dudes it was way more effective. The elder seem to blow their load pretty quickly and if you can survive that aloha strike it gets much easier. The necrons have shenanigans but none of them seem to help prevent dying, at least in the initial opening volley.
One thing I'm really happy to see is just how solid Company commanders + infantry squads + leman russe's works. It's just that peanut butter and chocolate of combos and I love it. It's critical to get the ratio right though, and I'm still toying with it. I think the sweet spot for 2000pts is going to be 100 infantry/5 LRBT's in a spearhead, but we'll see. 80 feels a bit light, even when I went ham and had something like 40 Stormtroopers dropping in. It seems like against most opponents you can expect to lose 60-70 guardsmen by end of turn 2. I'm hoping 100 gives me a few squads to grab objectives later on after the russes have done their work, we'll see how it works. Stormtroopers are absolutely a good addition for an infantry army as they give you some mobility, but you can't count on it. I've dropped down to 20 and I honestly wonder if those points would be better spent elsewhere. They only get one good round of shooting for the same price as a Russ, but have drastically reduced range and often are at risk to -1 auras or deepstrike denial, whereas if a Russ can see something it can hit it just like normal. LRBT's really shine in an infantry list as battlecannon/LC, although I'm not sure which regiment is the best yet. They definitely get better the more you add though. 3 is a joke, but if you hit the 5-6 territory your opponent will start to sweat more.
Other than that I'm basically caught in a weird struggle over the ratio of boys:toys in my pure IG lists. I want to try things like primaris psykers or tac bombs but often just find that more of my grunt units seems to do the job better. I'm not sure if this is just the weird confirmation bias or a legit thing, but I've been noticing it more and more over the 6 or so games I've had this week. I often find myself just wanting more bodies and hulls, and rarely thinking "man if only I had smite/some sort of pyschic power/weird gimmick unit I'd be fine." It's always "huh I need more guardsmen" or " huh, maybe another Russ would help."
Yeah, I'll probably outflank it (I'll be playing tallarn).
Thanks for the advice I don't have the FW index yet, how are cyclops this edition ? I have some I would like to use
I started out playing 8th with just infantry and leman russes. I ended up switching to infantry backed by artillery since russes were pure trash (no hyperbole). Then our codex dropped. Artillery is out, leman russes are in.
I've tried Eversor assassins and they have performed very well. Especially when I flank a unit of rough riders with him. Rough Riders are best used just to rush to a far away OBJ and hide out of LoS but they've done well with tying up enemy backfield shooty units (I'm looking at you Tyrant Guard!).
I have pretty much stopped using Scions. They are so cool and fun and my Kasrkin love their table time but I just don't need them anymore.
I have tried out Bullgryn and Celestine a bunch. They are fun. I only have 3 CC Bullgryn though so that limits their effectiveness. I think they would be very strong in a larger unit and buffed up with psychic powers.
I usually run 1 astropath for at least 1 deny. However, now that their points are so close to Primaris it is more difficult to choose., I'll probably continue to run Astropaths since their removal of cover for an enemy unit within 18" is the best thing about them.
But now I want to try out the Culexus assassin + Greyfax since I usually play a guy who is running Chaos soup. So that gives an 18" barrier where my opponent is -2 to psychic tests AND I get +1 to deny twice.
The beauty of the guard is that I can try out all of these different things and still maintain my core of 4 russes and 40+ troops. It makes plug and play list building really easy. I have found that I can do almost whatever I want list building wise and still win or come very close as long as I have 40 guard and 4 russes on the table. And CA changes only made my decisions easier. IE: Cyclops, Wyverns, etc are all out. So my advice to you is try out our wide variety of units available and play with what is fun or cool and the strength of our codex will hold it up. Just my 2 cents.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/07 22:05:32
5k Imperial Guard
2k Ad Mech
2018/01/07 23:25:33
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Created with BattleScribe Two detachments, the one with lots of heavy and the one with the most elites choices (what are the name in English ? Vanguard and spearhead ?).
No troops because GW apparently thinks veterans are elites and stormtroopers are troops, okay, why not, thanks GW. Going to play Tallarn and outflank the executioner the Hellhound and the battlecannon tank commander.
Does it seem ok to you ?
(A primaris psyker is missing, but is supposed to be here, bringing the list to 1990, with the two following powers: psychic barrier and nightshroud).
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/01/07 23:42:33
List seems fun and cool from a fluffy viewpoint, but with the prevalence of "deep strike" and 1st turn charges now, your tanks are extremely vulnerable from a practical viewpoint.
Multilasers are trash, for 2 points less you can just put a heavy bolter in the turret.
5k Imperial Guard
2k Ad Mech
2018/01/07 23:53:36
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Colonel Cross wrote: List seems fun and cool from a fluffy viewpoint, but with the prevalence of "deep strike" and 1st turn charges now, your tanks are extremely vulnerable from a practical viewpoint.
Multilasers are trash, for 2 points less you can just put a heavy bolter in the turret.
Yeah I know, I have enough points to do it, I will see if I have spare heavy bolters, but for now I want to stay wysywyg.
Yes, I am afraid of this, will see how it fare on the tabletop.
Thank for the inputs !
Created with BattleScribe Two detachments, the one with lots of heavy and the one with the most elites choices (what are the name in English ? Vanguard and spearhead ?).
No troops because GW apparently thinks veterans are elites and stormtroopers are troops, okay, why not, thanks GW. Going to play Tallarn and outflank the executioner the Hellhound and the battlecannon tank commander.
Does it seem ok to you ?
(A primaris psyker is missing, but is supposed to be here, bringing the list to 1990, with the two following powers: psychic barrier and nightshroud).
Do you have a particular reason for going the melta vet route? Your tanks already pack a ton of anti-tank fire power. The problem I have with meltagun vets is you are going to get a single shot off with them before they're dead. Guard just die. Thats what they do. Melta guns cost a LOT, and only hit a single target. Point for point, my money is still on plasma guns, at least then you have the opportunity to hit two targets per gun.
Also, can you scrounge up enough points for a Company commander for your other two squads? Orders are a HUGE force multiplier. You don't want to take veterans without orders!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/08 01:28:43
2018/01/08 14:29:36
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
godardc wrote: Going to play Tallarn and outflank the executioner the Hellhound and the battlecannon tank commander.
Does it seem ok to you ?
(A primaris psyker is missing, but is supposed to be here, bringing the list to 1990, with the two following powers: psychic barrier and nightshroud).
Either the Chapter approved or Erreta/FAQ changed the Tallarn Stratagem so that only one of the three ambushing units can have the VEHICLE keyword
You can still ambush a vehicle unit that contains more than one unit i.e. a unit of three LRBT or three Hellhounds. I'm looking at ambushing a unit of 3 hellhounds with multimeltas (getting them within half range of the multimeltas and within range of the inferno cannon for max damage and in one piece)
I've been looking around for other people trying this strategy but haven't seen anything.
2018/01/08 15:48:45
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
The problem with MM is that they'll be hitting on 4+ at best, which is very meh with low shot-count guns. At least with LRBTs you can snap off the turret twice on the turn you come in. Or hit automatically with the HH Flamer turret. YMMV I guess.
He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all.
2018/01/08 18:04:19
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Any LRBTs brought on using the tallarn stratagem will only be able to use their turret gun once as they count as having moved their full distance when they ambush (therefor more than 5") so no grinding advance.
Of the HH turret mounted flamer options, only the Inferno cannon can be in range after ambushing.
Unfortunately AM will almost always be hitting on 4+ unless you take the tank commander. This would limit you to ambushing with only one vehicle as they can't be taken in a vehicle squadron.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/08 18:12:53
2018/01/08 22:10:25
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
CaptainO wrote: Any LRBTs brought on using the tallarn stratagem will only be able to use their turret gun once as they count as having moved their full distance when they ambush (therefor more than 5") so no grinding advance.
Of the HH turret mounted flamer options, only the Inferno cannon can be in range after ambushing.
Unfortunately AM will almost always be hitting on 4+ unless you take the tank commander. This would limit you to ambushing with only one vehicle as they can't be taken in a vehicle squadron.
Why would they count as having moved full distance ?
I may have missed something.
That and GWfaq... why is GW hating me ???
I have mainly melta vets because I played the Forge World armored company, and I needes AT power as my LRBT were already providing anti troops fire. But now, with the removal of templates, everything changed
CaptainO wrote: Any LRBTs brought on using the tallarn stratagem will only be able to use their turret gun once as they count as having moved their full distance when they ambush (therefor more than 5") so no grinding advance.
Of the HH turret mounted flamer options, only the Inferno cannon can be in range after ambushing.
Unfortunately AM will almost always be hitting on 4+ unless you take the tank commander. This would limit you to ambushing with only one vehicle as they can't be taken in a vehicle squadron.
Why would they count as having moved full distance ?
I may have missed something.
That and GWfaq... why is GW hating me ???
I have mainly melta vets because I played the Forge World armored company, and I needes AT power as my LRBT were already providing anti troops fire. But now, with the removal of templates, everything changed
Because you're assumed to have been going full speed to get the flank I guess.
Honestly of that's the worst the FAQ's throw at us for tanks I would count our blessings. They could decide leman russe's are the new conscripts and Nerf them into Oblivion if we're not careful
2018/01/09 02:32:12
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
godardc wrote: Going to play Tallarn and outflank the executioner the Hellhound and the battlecannon tank commander.
Does it seem ok to you ?
(A primaris psyker is missing, but is supposed to be here, bringing the list to 1990, with the two following powers: psychic barrier and nightshroud).
Either the Chapter approved or Erreta/FAQ changed the Tallarn Stratagem so that only one of the three ambushing units can have the VEHICLE keyword
You can still ambush a vehicle unit that contains more than one unit i.e. a unit of three LRBT or three Hellhounds. I'm looking at ambushing a unit of 3 hellhounds with multimeltas (getting them within half range of the multimeltas and within range of the inferno cannon for max damage and in one piece)
I've been looking around for other people trying this strategy but haven't seen anything.
If you have enough CP, just use the strat twice. Bam, six Leman Russ in outflank. For added sweetness, put down your Grand Strategist/Kurovs Warlord on the table first and roll those six dice for refunds.
Though, is losing grinding advance for a turn worth keeping them off the board I wonder? I guess since you're not committed to always using the strat, you can see if your opponents list's alpha is a big enough threat first before using the CP
2018/01/09 02:49:21
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
CaptainO - Ill be trying out those ambushing Hellhounds at an RTT tournie this weekend in Albany NY Ill post how they did. I think its a solid way to use them, especially if there are flyers on the other side - 2d6 auto hits a S6 -1 plus a MM per chassis.
A man's character is his fate.
2018/01/09 07:13:27
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
godardc wrote: Going to play Tallarn and outflank the executioner the Hellhound and the battlecannon tank commander.
Does it seem ok to you ?
(A primaris psyker is missing, but is supposed to be here, bringing the list to 1990, with the two following powers: psychic barrier and nightshroud).
Either the Chapter approved or Erreta/FAQ changed the Tallarn Stratagem so that only one of the three ambushing units can have the VEHICLE keyword
You can still ambush a vehicle unit that contains more than one unit i.e. a unit of three LRBT or three Hellhounds. I'm looking at ambushing a unit of 3 hellhounds with multimeltas (getting them within half range of the multimeltas and within range of the inferno cannon for max damage and in one piece)
I've been looking around for other people trying this strategy but haven't seen anything.
If you have enough CP, just use the strat twice. Bam, six Leman Russ in outflank. For added sweetness, put down your Grand Strategist/Kurovs Warlord on the table first and roll those six dice for refunds.
Though, is losing grinding advance for a turn worth keeping them off the board I wonder? I guess since you're not committed to always using the strat, you can see if your opponents list's alpha is a big enough threat first before using the CP
You really need to read the codex again. You use the Stratagem before the game begins. Therefore you can't get those CPs back. You also can't use it more than once, as per the rules on Stratagems per phase.
On another topic, just played a 2k game against a very competitive Death Guard list. I've come to the conclusion that if you're facing Mortarion and Magnus you are screwed unless you get a favorable deployment and/or you're rocking a super heavy. My 5 Russes and 3 hwt lascannons barely took them out in 3 turns. By that time I was nearly tabled. First defeat of 8th edition.
Alternatively you could just not roll like garbage as I am known to do against an opponent who uses those damn dark imperium dice. For an example, I put 18 wounds on Mortarion with a Russ and between armor saves and disgustingly resilient he saved all but 3
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/09 07:21:54
5k Imperial Guard
2k Ad Mech
2018/01/09 10:15:10
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
You use the strategem "during deployment" which doesn't count as a phase so you may use it any number of times.
Since you use it "during" deployment. You dont have to use it right away. So you deploy your grand strategist warlord first. Grand strategist gives you the CP roll if your army is battleforged and is on the table. Then you activate the strategem twice. He is on the table so you get the CP rolls.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/09 10:17:09
2018/01/09 16:08:04
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
kaiservonhugal wrote: CaptainO - Ill be trying out those ambushing Hellhounds at an RTT tournie this weekend in Albany NY Ill post how they did. I think its a solid way to use them, especially if there are flyers on the other side - 2d6 auto hits a S6 -1 plus a MM per chassis.
I'd really appreciate your findings. It sounds great in theory. I never even thought about the benefit of using the 18" autohit flamers against flyers. I'm thinking of running two Hellhounds with Inferno cannon and hull mounted MM with a Devil Dog in between the two(Hellhound explodes 6" on a 4+ whereas a Devil Dog explodes on a 6+) This could be problematic seeing as they would be deployed within 6" of each other upon arriving on the table. If a Hellhound rather than a Devil Dog was in the middle and exploded....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
U02dah4 wrote: You use the strategem "during deployment" which doesn't count as a phase so you may use it any number of times.
Since you use it "during" deployment. You dont have to use it right away. So you deploy your grand strategist warlord first. Grand strategist gives you the CP roll if your army is battleforged and is on the table. Then you activate the strategem twice. He is on the table so you get the CP rolls.
The ITC consensus is that unless specified (such as with prelim bombardment) Stratagems are not limited to "one per phase" if they are used in during deployment. I know the Ravenguard often use their infiltrate like stratagem multiple times prior to the battle to deepstrike multiple units. Its kind of a moot point as 6CP is far too much for me just to ambush two vehicle squads.
RAW would mean that if the warlord is alive and on the board you try and recoup them using grand strategist. Without a FAQ I would understand if my opponent got salty though...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/09 16:16:58
2018/01/09 16:58:29
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Thanks for your help, guys. What do you think of the superheavy ? The shadowsword and the quake.cannon one sound pretty interesting to me, the hellhammer, my old favourite seems less good now. But still, 500 points in a 26 wound model ? Not even a 2+ or T9 :/
Just used the ogryn bodyguard with death mask relic for the first time in my foot list. Wow that thing is a beast! Walked straight into a black Knight deathstar, killed one but most importantly survived with no damage taken. This meant they were locked up from shooting and charging next turn. This guy is so good in combination with a horde list!
Fully Painted Armies: 2200pts Orks 1000pts Space Marines 1200pts Tau 2500pts Blood Angels 3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades and 1700pts Daemons 450pts Imperial Knights
2018/01/10 16:42:25
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
gendoikari87 wrote: Got my first game with the baneblade coming up, any tips on keeping it alive?
Depends a lot on what your opponent is bringing I'm afraid.
I've had single Baneblades be one-shot by three Predator Annihilators or 10 Dark Angel Hellblasters around captains and lieutenants and whatnot (and conversely if I get to go first I wreck those units in turn, so in that case it's a "who goes first" question).
I've also played games where the Baneblade has never died, because my opponent was horde-ish GSC and the Baneblade just got jammed up on infantry, but didn't die, even though they still won.
And then I've had games where single tanks just steamroll the opposition because they were so psychologically scarred by the vehicle that their tactical decision-making fell to pieces.
2018/01/10 16:53:20
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
gendoikari87 wrote: Got my first game with the baneblade coming up, any tips on keeping it alive?
Two astropath to cast nightshroud and psychic barrier are a must
This only works if you go first. If you go first, you probably don't need this. A fully kitted Baneblade will easily destroy any major threats to its existence if it gets to shoot them first, and with adequate support from other units, you should be able to accomplish this with everything except Necron Pylons (in which case neither psychic power will help) or long-ranged anti-tank that wins the First Turn roll, e.g. Predator Annihilators, Neutron Onagers, etc.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/10 16:57:29
2018/01/10 17:24:33
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
You should probably be fine just leaving it sit out there, though I'd worm in a tech-priest for repairs since it might take damage. At 1k-1500 there's not much to kill it, especially in a meta that doesn't seem prepared for superheavy armour.
2018/01/10 18:23:45
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Voroshilov btw is the Soviet designer that made the kv series including the fortress and design inspiration for the baneblade that is the kv-5
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/10 18:25:18
I know for a fact the pysker can be good, I'm just really bad at using him. Same for things like ogryns and Celestine. I don't own them so they don't compute as something I could try most of the time
1000pts Space Marines 
1200pts Tau 
2500pts Blood Angels 
3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades 
and 1700pts Daemons 
450pts Imperial Knights 