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2018/01/19 05:00:04
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Coh Magnussen wrote: When running a KFF Mek (intended to hang back with the artillery), what do you typically put on his other arm?
If it's just some stock big mek, just a choppa. Keep him as cheap as possible. Even with a PK or KS, he's pretty much dead if he gets into CC, which is where you don't want him to begin with since his aura only works in shooting.
"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.
6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted
2018/01/19 07:14:29
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
I modeled one a while back with a PK because I thought it looked cool, but now that they’re 13pts I can actually *use* it. A Big Mek is still a Nob - same toughness, strength, 4+ save - but with the 4 wounds of an HQ so he’s a little tougher. You can have a KFF Big Mek join in the fun this time.
But yeah, if he’s just guarding artillery, he doesn’t need anything special.
2018/01/19 10:17:21
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
TedNugent wrote: It looks like the burnabomber puts out 5 mortals on a unit of 10. Just based on mathhammer for that alone I dont see anything of comparable price that can do more than half that. At least the potential for it to do damage is quite good.
Dakkajet puts out about 3 dead meqs a turn with six supa shootas at full health. I just cant really get excited by that. That is slightly better against meqs than lootas. Do people playing dakkajets have good results?
What about the bommas?
Thanks for that. Depending on the mission you play, having the ability to go anywhere on the board and distract the enemy has a lot more value beyond just the number of wounds it will make. In ITC style missions I can imagine that having a flyer with an Ork infantry army that tries to spread the board and control objectives could be helpful.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Coh Magnussen wrote: When running a KFF Mek (intended to hang back with the artillery), what do you typically put on his other arm?
Keep him as cheap as possible. What I struggle to do is keep the artillery in his bubble while also using them to spread the deployment zone and deny deepstrikers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/19 10:18:27
2018/01/19 10:49:08
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
TedNugent wrote: It looks like the burnabomber puts out 5 mortals on a unit of 10. Just based on mathhammer for that alone I dont see anything of comparable price that can do more than half that. At least the potential for it to do damage is quite good.
Dakkajet puts out about 3 dead meqs a turn with six supa shootas at full health. I just cant really get excited by that. That is slightly better against meqs than lootas. Do people playing dakkajets have good results?
What about the bommas?
I've played with bombas and dakkajets, usually as a one of. I've found the that movement of the unit is more valuable than the damage it does. However, it does enough damage to be happy about if it survives two or three turns. I often use dakkajets now because the movement is more flexible, I don't have to fly over a unit. I use the flier as the closest unit a lot, for example if my weirdboy is alone after a jump, i'll make sure my plane is in the way so he cant be shot. If a flank is getting crushed and there are KMK grots hanging around there, I'll send the plane there to be the closest unit, protecting ALL the grots. Against less experienced players, or people who are unfamiliar with my list, I'll try to catch characters with the dakkajet, if its somewhere near a 4+ sv 4 wound model I'll usually give it a go. Generlally most of these things can only be done with a dakkajet. However sometimes there are REALLY great targets for the bomba that you would never be able to hurt otherwise. Huge plague marine squad, genestealer broods, etc.
2018/01/19 12:39:26
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Quackzo wrote: The point I was trying to make in my second post is that you get the highest probability when you keep a 4+ and spend CP but the probability of only keeping on a 5+ and spending CP is close enough to consider it as an option.
So I'll run through the computations of each case:
Spending no CP:
5/18 chance to succeed + (13/18)*(5/18) chance to succeed with 'Ere we go = ~47.8%
Spending CP to re-roll on a 6:
5/18 chance to succeed + (11/18)*(5/18) chance to succeed with 'Ere we go + 2/27 chance to succeed with CP re-roll = ~52.2%
Spending CP to re-roll on a 5+:
5/18 chance to succeed + (4/9)*(5/18) chance to succeed with 'Ere we go + 2/27+1/12 chance to succeed with CP re-roll = ~55.9%
Spending CP to re-roll on a 4+:
5/18 chance to succeed + (1/4)*(5/18) chance to succeed with 'Ere we go + 2/27+1/12 + 7/108 chance to succeed with CP re-roll = ~56.9%
So clearly re-rolling when you have at least one 4+ die grants you the best chance of success, but if you're worried about your CP than it is not unreasonable to use 'Ere We go when you have a 4, and choosing to only use CP for a 5+.
What about when you re-roll on a 4+ (using 1 CP) and then if you get a 3 or a 4, you re-roll the first die (4) using another CP in hope of getting a 6 (if the first re-roll gave you a 3) or a 5 or 6 (if the first re-roll gave you a 4)? That would be expensive but for a must have charge, that may be worth it!
To be honest, i haven't had a wounded gun in a while. They usually just die cause they're the only worthwhile target for ranged anti-tank. But...why not i guess. I'm gona run like 6 sag big meks next game, so who am i to blame you.
2018/01/19 22:59:01
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
What about when you re-roll on a 4+ (using 1 CP) and then if you get a 3 or a 4, you re-roll the first die (4) using another CP in hope of getting a 6 (if the first re-roll gave you a 3) or a 5 or 6 (if the first re-roll gave you a 4)? That would be expensive but for a must have charge, that may be worth it!
Sorry I don't follow, you're only allowed re-roll once. So you have to choose between using 'Ere we go or spending 1 CP on the stratagem, you can't use both or repeat either option in matched play.
Dakkajet puts out about 3 dead meqs a turn with six supa shootas at full health. I just cant really get excited by that. That is slightly better against meqs than lootas. Do people playing dakkajets have good results? ?
I feel they work surprisingly well, until they don't, at their best accuracy they're pretty good at taking down elites, but once their accuracy is down due to damage it can get pretty sad. Only used it the one game though. I suspect it might own against a less shooty army.
2018/01/20 04:21:29
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
What about when you re-roll on a 4+ (using 1 CP) and then if you get a 3 or a 4, you re-roll the first die (4) using another CP in hope of getting a 6 (if the first re-roll gave you a 3) or a 5 or 6 (if the first re-roll gave you a 4)? That would be expensive but for a must have charge, that may be worth it!
Sorry I don't follow, you're only allowed re-roll once. So you have to choose between using 'Ere we go or spending 1 CP on the stratagem, you can't use both or repeat either option in matched play.
You roll 2 dice for the charge: A and B
A gets a 3 and B gets a 4
You keep the 4 (B) and use a CP to reroll A, getting a 4 (dang!)
You then decide to reroll die B (which was never rerolled, so you can do it) for another CP, getting a 6!
You made the charge, using 2 CP What would be the chances of a successful charge like that?
What about when you re-roll on a 4+ (using 1 CP) and then if you get a 3 or a 4, you re-roll the first die (4) using another CP in hope of getting a 6 (if the first re-roll gave you a 3) or a 5 or 6 (if the first re-roll gave you a 4)? That would be expensive but for a must have charge, that may be worth it!
Sorry I don't follow, you're only allowed re-roll once. So you have to choose between using 'Ere we go or spending 1 CP on the stratagem, you can't use both or repeat either option in matched play.
You roll 2 dice for the charge: A and B
A gets a 3 and B gets a 4
You keep the 4 (B) and use a CP to reroll A, getting a 4 (dang!)
You then decide to reroll die B (which was never rerolled, so you can do it) for another CP, getting a 6!
You made the charge, using 2 CP What would be the chances of a successful charge like that?
Even if you could do two command rerolls in a phase (which you normally can't) that would not be allowed. You are basicly rerolling a reroll, since you get three different results from one roll. It's not legit.
Brutal, but kunning!
2018/01/20 04:40:13
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
What about when you re-roll on a 4+ (using 1 CP) and then if you get a 3 or a 4, you re-roll the first die (4) using another CP in hope of getting a 6 (if the first re-roll gave you a 3) or a 5 or 6 (if the first re-roll gave you a 4)? That would be expensive but for a must have charge, that may be worth it!
Sorry I don't follow, you're only allowed re-roll once. So you have to choose between using 'Ere we go or spending 1 CP on the stratagem, you can't use both or repeat either option in matched play.
You roll 2 dice for the charge: A and B
A gets a 3 and B gets a 4
You keep the 4 (B) and use a CP to reroll A, getting a 4 (dang!)
You then decide to reroll die B (which was never rerolled, so you can do it) for another CP, getting a 6!
You made the charge, using 2 CP What would be the chances of a successful charge like that?
Not taking into account you cant use the stratagem twice like that, I'm 90% sure that you only get one chance to decide which dice you want to reroll.
Chaos undivided: 8300, Tau empire: 5600, Ork speed freaks: 1750
2018/01/20 05:01:46
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
What about when you re-roll on a 4+ (using 1 CP) and then if you get a 3 or a 4, you re-roll the first die (4) using another CP in hope of getting a 6 (if the first re-roll gave you a 3) or a 5 or 6 (if the first re-roll gave you a 4)? That would be expensive but for a must have charge, that may be worth it!
Sorry I don't follow, you're only allowed re-roll once. So you have to choose between using 'Ere we go or spending 1 CP on the stratagem, you can't use both or repeat either option in matched play.
You roll 2 dice for the charge: A and B
A gets a 3 and B gets a 4
You keep the 4 (B) and use a CP to reroll A, getting a 4 (dang!)
You then decide to reroll die B (which was never rerolled, so you can do it) for another CP, getting a 6!
You made the charge, using 2 CP What would be the chances of a successful charge like that?
The problem is that you can't use the same stratagem multiple times during a phase. If you spend CP to re-roll the 3 and get a 4 you will not be allowed to spend CP on the same stratagem to re-roll the other die and consequently you will fail the charge.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/20 05:11:03
A question about DakkaDakka! stratagem... first, do gretchin in large numbers get 33% more dakka instead of the usual 16%? (5s and 6s both become 6+ to spawn new dice?)
Also, do you have to use the stratagem before you roll, or could you roll your dice and THEN choose to use DakkaDakka?
2018/01/20 16:23:58
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Coh Magnussen wrote: A question about DakkaDakka! stratagem... first, do gretchin in large numbers get 33% more dakka instead of the usual 16%? (5s and 6s both become 6+ to spawn new dice?)
Also, do you have to use the stratagem before you roll, or could you roll your dice and THEN choose to use DakkaDakka?
Yes. Big blobs of Gretchin gets +33% dakka. You use the stratagem before rolling
2018/01/20 17:46:26
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
BAN wrote: Cheapest best way to weight bases? I superglued coins into my stormboyz bases but they keep falling out anyone had any better ideas?
Well, for starters you could use weights that are not legal tender. And then you should use epoxy, preferably a slow-curing epoxy. And remember that cyanoacrylates have a short pot-life, especially after the bottle has been opened. Commercial companies always store super glues and pre pregs in the freezer.
2018/01/20 21:31:52
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Kind of a "hack" I have seen a friend do for his primaris jumpers, he used actual small rocks from a garden center for base decoration. It weighs them down enough so the won't fall over. Might work for storm boyz as well.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2018/01/20 22:55:26
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
BAN wrote: Cheapest best way to weight bases? I superglued coins into my stormboyz bases but they keep falling out anyone had any better ideas?
I bought a box of a metal washers, it was like ~$10 AUD for 400 of them. I had to do some measurements in store to make sure I had the right size as they are labelled by internal diameter.
I just used super glue to stick mine in and had no troubles, if that doesn't work then other people have offered alternative adhesives which are probably worth a try too.
Anyway, they work real good. I get noticeably less wobbly model out of them and I would imagine they're either heavier than the coins you are using or cheaper than your heavier coins.
BAN wrote: Cheapest best way to weight bases? I superglued coins into my stormboyz bases but they keep falling out anyone had any better ideas?
I bought a box of a metal washers, it was like ~$10 AUD for 400 of them. I had to do some measurements in store to make sure I had the right size as they are labelled by internal diameter.
I just used super glue to stick mine in and had no troubles, if that doesn't work then other people have offered alternative adhesives which are probably worth a try too.
Anyway, they work real good. I get noticeably less wobbly model out of them and I would imagine they're either heavier than the coins you are using or cheaper than your heavier coins.
I can second washers. They're a perfect size and made to be durable and heavy. I have them on my stormboyz as well. Doesn't completely solve the issue but it helps.
"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.
6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted
2018/01/21 03:32:15
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
BAN wrote:
Cheapest best way to weight bases? I superglued coins into my stormboyz bases but they keep falling out anyone had any better ideas?
I bought a box of a metal washers, it was like ~$10 AUD for 400 of them. I had to do some measurements in store to make sure I had the right size as they are labelled by internal diameter.
I just used super glue to stick mine in and had no troubles, if that doesn't work then other people have offered alternative adhesives which are probably worth a try too.
Anyway, they work real good. I get noticeably less wobbly model out of them and I would imagine they're either heavier than the coins you are using or cheaper than your heavier coins.
I can second washers. They're a perfect size and made to be durable and heavy. I have them on my stormboyz as well. Doesn't completely solve the issue but it helps.
I just glued 200 washers to bases last night. It worked well, though slotted bases are the worst.
2018/01/21 13:02:53
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
The Naut is a bit underwhelming in shooting and the gretchin are a great screen, the Stormboyz shine for real, and the bikes are really depending from how you screen that first charge.
A played a game vs new Nurgle and is insane , -1 to hit on the best units and that goddam bell that brings drones back was a pain in the ...
However how is the general consensus about the “codex”?
Is it still valuable what it’s said on the first page about the units?
Are grot guns and canz that bad?
Can we field anything more than footslog?
2018/01/21 13:22:20
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
1101/09/29 08:07:12
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
The Naut is a bit underwhelming in shooting and the gretchin are a great screen, the Stormboyz shine for real, and the bikes are really depending from how you screen that first charge.
A played a game vs new Nurgle and is insane , -1 to hit on the best units and that goddam bell that brings drones back was a pain in the ...
However how is the general consensus about the “codex”?
Is it still valuable what it’s said on the first page about the units?
Are grot guns and canz that bad?
Can we field anything more than footslog?
The unit rankings on the first page should be taken with a big grain of salt. The KMK Mek Gun is very good, the rest are bad except the kannon which is mediocre. Kanz and Gorkanauts are mediocre on a good day, but Dreads are worse. Why are you bringing a big mek on a bike without KFF?
2018/01/21 16:17:48
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
The Naut is a bit underwhelming in shooting and the gretchin are a great screen, the Stormboyz shine for real, and the bikes are really depending from how you screen that first charge.
A played a game vs new Nurgle and is insane , -1 to hit on the best units and that goddam bell that brings drones back was a pain in the ...
However how is the general consensus about the “codex”?
Is it still valuable what it’s said on the first page about the units?
Are grot guns and canz that bad?
Can we field anything more than footslog?
The unit rankings on the first page should be taken with a big grain of salt. The KMK Mek Gun is very good, the rest are bad except the kannon which is mediocre. Kanz and Gorkanauts are mediocre on a good day, but Dreads are worse. Why are you bringing a big mek on a bike without KFF?
Yeah, I tried the dread and it is a very bad thing to play...
The mek have the KFF, I wrongly posted the old list , there are 26 Stormboyz instead of 28. I was gonna buy a couple of gunz and a Bomma cause I love the model anyway, because I’m really trying to stay away from footslogging 90 boyz.
I got ‘Nids and home for that
6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted 
mean green fightin machine 
, there are 26 Stormboyz instead of 28. I was gonna buy a couple of gunz and a Bomma cause I love the model anyway, because I’m really trying to stay away from footslogging 90 boyz.
