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2017/11/24 11:29:59
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Odrankt wrote: Would you take them if they had a good points decrease?
Doubtful.
If they don't fix anything but the price,
The Night Scythe will still be a crappy way to "transport" Infantry,
And the Doom Scythe will still be shooting its big gun at BS4.
Pretty significant deal breakers for me.
Honestly, it depends on the decrease, surely?
Would it, though?
Would it be worth spending points on one of our sub par flyers (a transport that sucks at transporting and a big gun that only hits 50% of the time or worse) instead of something else that actually performs well?
Plus, if other things that are good but hampered by overpricing get balanced (Destroyers, Tomb Blades, etc.) that will be even less incentive to take Night/Doom Scythes.
The ONLY thing I can see making them worth considering is fixing the two issue discussed above.
2017/11/24 21:12:32
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I don't think the lack of "Transport" keyword is the issue. I think its more of the wording of the Invasion beams and Eternity Gate.
Because we lack the "Transport" keyword we can freely deploy any Infantry unit e.g. Destroyers, Lychguard, Warriors etc without needing to dedicated them to a specific transport. Other armies need to specifically put units into transport vehicles e.g. Space Marines into a Rhino. To move them around the board. If we destroy a Rhino w/ 10 space Marines then that person has to roll 10 dice to see who dies and those that survive are now stranded. We can field 2 N.scythes and even if one goes we can still deploy anything we want that is held in the Tomb World.
It's this part of the ruling that needs fixing or an FaQ " If all friendly Night Scythes and Monoliths are destroyed, any units still on the tomb world are considered to be slain.". If it was changed to let us roll a 4+ for each unit still held in the TW to have them deploy with 3" of our deployment zone edge then that would sort the issue as it would give all our units in the Tomb World a 50% chance of being fielded after our N,Scythes or Monos go down.
That's my opinion anyway. If we get a Transport keyword then we have to decide what unit goes in what but if they change the ruling then we get to frelly Deploy what we want while they are around and get a chance to deploy them in our deployment zone if they are destroyed.
Odrankt wrote: I don't think the lack of "Transport" keyword is the issue. I think its more of the wording of the Invasion beams and Eternity Gate.
Because we lack the "Transport" keyword we can freely deploy any Infantry unit e.g. Destroyers, Lychguard, Warriors etc without needing to dedicated them to a specific transport. Other armies need to specifically put units into transport vehicles e.g. Space Marines into a Rhino. To move them around the board. If we destroy a Rhino w/ 10 space Marines then that person has to roll 10 dice to see who dies and those that survive are now stranded. We can field 2 N.scythes and even if one goes we can still deploy anything we want that is held in the Tomb World.
It's this part of the ruling that needs fixing or an FaQ " If all friendly Night Scythes and Monoliths are destroyed, any units still on the tomb world are considered to be slain.". If it was changed to let us roll a 4+ for each unit still held in the TW to have them deploy with 3" of our deployment zone edge then that would sort the issue as it would give all our units in the Tomb World a 50% chance of being fielded after our N,Scythes or Monos go down.
That's my opinion anyway. If we get a Transport keyword then we have to decide what unit goes in what but if they change the ruling then we get to frelly Deploy what we want while they are around and get a chance to deploy them in our deployment zone if they are destroyed.
Plus the fact that any TW unit can come out of any portal is a pretty great plus.
2017/11/24 22:37:59
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I think even if we got a stratagem that gave us the ability to port from the tomb world it would strongly help. Like 2 CP to bring in a unit from the tomb world 9” away from an enemy. I enjoy that our transports don’t have the transport word or that we have to dedicate a unit inside. We just need a few more delivery options that utilize the portal concept, maybe like an artifact that allows us to bring in a unit close to the bearer aswell.
I would sign this contract but I already ate the potato
GENERATION 9: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.
2017/11/24 23:24:30
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't one of the big issues with our ways of deploying from tomb world's restrictive in three ways.
1) no mixed units eg no leader with deployment
2) if the vehicles are all destroyed all tomb world units are dead. ( unlike any other transport)
3) we only have till turn three to get them onto the field otherwise they again are dead ( unlike units inside transports)
2017/11/25 00:02:33
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Instagram user ftgtevan posted a leak compilation of CA. i can’t link because i just made the account to post this.
75 Point increase on Gauss Pylon
Night Shroud point total is now 220 i’m not sure what it was before.
2017/11/25 00:38:06
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Sawkfire wrote: Instagram user ftgtevan posted a leak compilation of CA. i can’t link because i just made the account to post this.
75 Point increase on Gauss Pylon
Night Shroud point total is now 220 i’m not sure what it was before.
270 for the night shroud if I remember correctly.
2017/11/25 01:29:50
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Changes listed there. With no points changes for Necrons or T'au outside of Forge World, speculation is these are the two codices to follow Chaos Daemons in January. Keep an eye open for a possible announcement either this weekend (Warhammer 40,000 Open Days) or December 9th-10th (Warhammer 40,000 Grand Tournament Heat 2).
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2017/11/25 01:47:53
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Changes listed there. With no points changes for Necrons or T'au outside of Forge World, speculation is these are the two codices to follow Chaos Daemons in January. Keep an eye open for a possible announcement either this weekend (Warhammer 40,000 Open Days) or December 9th-10th (Warhammer 40,000 Grand Tournament Heat 2).
Really? I thought the whole appeal of CA was the changes to existing codexes, and special focus on index armies. Hopefully it's not true then.
2017/11/25 07:56:44
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Changes listed there. With no points changes for Necrons or T'au outside of Forge World, speculation is these are the two codices to follow Chaos Daemons in January. Keep an eye open for a possible announcement either this weekend (Warhammer 40,000 Open Days) or December 9th-10th (Warhammer 40,000 Grand Tournament Heat 2).
Really? I thought the whole appeal of CA was the changes to existing codexes, and special focus on index armies. Hopefully it's not true then.
The main points of CA are "fix current Codex point costs that are bad" and "give point costs to armies that will wait a while".
If we get no point changes and have no Codex, it's a pretty safe assumption that we will not be waiting long. Which is nice, but means that we're stuck with this til mid January/early February. So... yeah, not playing 40k til then.
2017/11/25 09:03:23
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm not sure if the Gauss Pylon needed the points rise, what with its random number of shots...
Normally points is about 20 times the PL; so PL24 should be about 480 (it was 475).
I hope they don't increase the PL to 27 then...
How else can we defend against superheavies...
Cheers
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/25 11:59:18
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2017/11/25 12:38:18
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
EDIT I - Aswell as relic, damn, I was hoping i could use our heavy support C'tan for some nasty stuff..
EDIT II - Youtube review removed by user, I guess GW told him to remove it.
But one of our stratagems, 2CP - Reroll reanimation protocols of 1s - is kinda underwhelming considering the first line from the stratagem "Use this BEFORE any rolls have been made for A unit"
So 2CP for potentially rerolling 0 1s or if your lucky a jatzy of ones. I was hoping it would be AFTER rolls have been made. Also consider this: we mosly use 10 manna troops units.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/25 13:31:26
2017/11/25 16:32:41
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
That 2cp Stratagem pisses me off. Ad Mech gets a 2pc bring back a fully destroyed unit of destroyers back! No rolling just get back 250 points worth of destroyers.
2017/11/25 16:45:52
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Pyrothem wrote: That 2cp Stratagem pisses me off. Ad Mech gets a 2pc bring back a fully destroyed unit of destroyers back! No rolling just get back 250 points worth of destroyers.
That Strategem can only be used by a particular FW.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2017/11/25 17:10:18
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
at least we've got a decent warlord trait and relic that can be useful. I'm thinking that the veil of darkness can let a unit within 3'' of the relic bearer teleport out of combat, and thus it will be able to shoot normally in the following shooting.
So while there's a potential for an all in alpha strike type of list, I'm thinking more towards using the veil in a more defensive nature. Have a large unit of warriors or immortals locked in combat? Teleport them out and harass their back lines.
2017/11/25 18:24:15
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
In the youtube video that was taken down, does anyone remember if there was any specific details about how the veil of darkness worked? like after the relic bearer and unit teleported, the unit had to be 3''/6'' away from the relic bearer? or could the relic bearer teleport to one location and the other unit could be as far away from the relic bearer as possible?
2017/11/25 21:45:07
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
flyingnecronmaster wrote: In the youtube video that was taken down, does anyone remember if there was any specific details about how the veil of darkness worked? like after the relic bearer and unit teleported, the unit had to be 3''/6'' away from the relic bearer? or could the relic bearer teleport to one location and the other unit could be as far away from the relic bearer as possible?
Going by the leaks the unit has to be within "8 of the bear ig the Relic to be taken with them.
The Warlord trait is good on a CCB depending on how it affects the quantum shield roll off. If you first reduce the damage and then roll for QS it negates much of the QS effect.
2017/11/25 23:40:42
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Drewtavian wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't one of the big issues with our ways of deploying from tomb world's restrictive in three ways.
1) no mixed units eg no leader with deployment
2) if the vehicles are all destroyed all tomb world units are dead. ( unlike any other transport)
3) we only have till turn three to get them onto the field otherwise they again are dead ( unlike units inside transports)
For me, the biggest issue is because it lacks the TRANSPORT keyword, anything that gets out of it will be unable to move, unlike normal transport disembarking units. This makes Night Scythes practically useless for CC transport (you have to get out before it moves, so turn 1, Night Scythe moves up. Turn 2, guys get out. Turn 3, guys can move... but unless your opponent is an idiot, the target will have booked it out of there). Even for shooters it's not very good.
Combined with the above points, I'm not sure I see a point in ever taking one.
Now that we know we're not getting any help from C.A, I too probably won't be playing Necrons until we get our own book... but at this rate, I don't have a lot of faith.
2017/11/26 06:07:15
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
So, with Christmas on the way I plan on getting... moarrr Necrons. Question is what should I get...
I a Maynarkh Dynasty so FW Canopteks spring to mind.
Atm, I have:
Spoiler:
- Illuminor Szeras
- Lord with Scythe and Rez Orb
- Cryptek
- Destroyer Lord
- CCB or Tesla Barge with Overlord
- 62 Warriors
- 10 Gauss Immortals
- 21 Scarabs
- 12 Wraiths
- 10 Destroyers
- 2 H. Destroyers
- 1 Night Scythe
- 2 Heat Ray Stalkers
- 5 Deathmarks
- 2 Tesla Barges
- 1 Canoptek Spyder
What would you recommend (I am playing casual and fluffy, but still like winning
Automatically Appended Next Post: Was thinking of any combination of Gauss Pylon, Acanthrites, Tomb Sentinels and Tesseract Ark.
Main opponents are Nids, Deathwath, Aeldari, CSM, Sisters and Catachan. Budget is £225-275.
I feel the pylon is auto-include as my buddies have a Tyranid Bio-Titan, some Knights, some Land Raiders and some Russes.
May your Dynasties grow and prosper!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/26 06:11:41
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2017/11/26 07:10:41
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
So, with Christmas on the way I plan on getting... moarrr Necrons. Question is what should I get...
I a Maynarkh Dynasty so FW Canopteks spring to mind.
Atm, I have:
Spoiler:
- Illuminor Szeras
- Lord with Scythe and Rez Orb
- Cryptek
- Destroyer Lord
- CCB or Tesla Barge with Overlord
- 62 Warriors
- 10 Gauss Immortals
- 21 Scarabs
- 12 Wraiths
- 10 Destroyers
- 2 H. Destroyers
- 1 Night Scythe
- 2 Heat Ray Stalkers
- 5 Deathmarks
- 2 Tesla Barges
- 1 Canoptek Spyder
What would you recommend (I am playing casual and fluffy, but still like winning
Automatically Appended Next Post: Was thinking of any combination of Gauss Pylon, Acanthrites, Tomb Sentinels and Tesseract Ark.
Main opponents are Nids, Deathwath, Aeldari, CSM, Sisters and Catachan. Budget is £225-275.
I feel the pylon is auto-include as my buddies have a Tyranid Bio-Titan, some Knights, some Land Raiders and some Russes.
May your Dynasties grow and prosper!
Spoiler:
Ican link you to a website that sells warhammer cheaper then Gdubs if you want more bang for your buck?
Index-wise I would get;
9-12 Tomb Blades,
2 Ghost/DoomsDay Arks (magnatise to use both),
10 Immortals (Tesla).
Forgeworld-wise;
Gauss Pylon (why not I suppose),
2 Tesseract Arks,
2 canoptek Tomb Sentinels (the model for the Sentinel and Stalker are so close ein detail that non-necron players wouldn't know).
You could try eBay or Facebook Wargaming Trading pages to find cheap necron armies if you want to get more that badly.
Interesting replies concerning the Pylon...
Making them 550pts is harsh indeed, but are Tesseract Arks and Tomb Sentinels really going to be enough to take down the heavies?
(DDA are random and do a lot less dmg) Granted, the number of shots on the Pylon is also random, but does it pack a punch...
Dropping it practically allows me 2 TA's and 2 Sentinels tho...
Are we certain that there will be no wargear or stat changes in CA (other than the points I mean)?
Fluff wise I should really get some sentinels indeed, as Toholk invented them :p
Thx for the replies
Automatically Appended Next Post:
sieGermans wrote: I would skip the Pylon given: (a) your opponents and (b) the price increase.
How do you mean, giving my opponents? Aren't those superheavies that are hard to kill?
Also forgot to mention that my opponents also have a Xiphon Pattern Interceptor, a Sicarian Tank, a leviathan dreadnought and a Revenant Titan :/
Pyrothem wrote: That 2cp Stratagem pisses me off. Ad Mech gets a 2pc bring back a fully destroyed unit of destroyers back! No rolling just get back 250 points worth of destroyers.
That Strategem can only be used by a particular FW.
Still isn't fair
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/26 10:08:03
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2017/11/26 13:20:22
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Interesting replies concerning the Pylon...
Making them 550pts is harsh indeed, but are Tesseract Arks and Tomb Sentinels really going to be enough to take down the heavies?
(DDA are random and do a lot less dmg) Granted, the number of shots on the Pylon is also random, but does it pack a punch...
Dropping it practically allows me 2 TA's and 2 Sentinels tho...
Are we certain that there will be no wargear or stat changes in CA (other than the points I mean)?
Fluff wise I should really get some sentinels indeed, as Toholk invented them :p
Thx for the replies
Automatically Appended Next Post:
sieGermans wrote: I would skip the Pylon given: (a) your opponents and (b) the price increase.
How do you mean, giving my opponents? Aren't those superheavies that are hard to kill?
Also forgot to mention that my opponents also have a Xiphon Pattern Interceptor, a Sicarian Tank, a leviathan dreadnought and a Revenant Titan :/
Pyrothem wrote: That 2cp Stratagem pisses me off. Ad Mech gets a 2pc bring back a fully destroyed unit of destroyers back! No rolling just get back 250 points worth of destroyers.
That Strategem can only be used by a particular FW.
Still isn't fair
If your usual point values for games exceed 3k, then toss in the Pylon, sure. But at 550 points, for 2k tournament games/etc., it probably isn’t competitive anymore.
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