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As most of you are aware Mandrakes are almost useless as they are, and the little purpose they DO have does not seem to match their roles and abilities in the fluff.
Giving them something like "Incorporeal- ignores dangerous terrain" and/or "does not suffer assault through cover penalties(basically assault grenades, but better suited to the fluff)",
Upping their save to 4+ invulnerable because "to fight them is to fight a living shadow"(it is pretty much the same reasoning that gave the Khymera 4+ invul),
Giving them a special rule that takes away WS 1 from opponents to account for the way that Mandrakes terrify their foes(or increasing them to WS 5)
Giving them a special rule that takes away S 1 from opponents to account for the way that Mandrakes drain life energies(or increasing them to T 4),
Giving them "Hit and Run" to represent that they can travel between shadows,
Making Kheradruakh an IC so that he can join them and not die the first turn you deploy him,
Giving them Kheradruakh's deployment methods but letting them and him assault on the turn that they arrive(probably over powered, feel free to tweak),
Making Kheradruakh their HQ with the option to take them as troops...
Give them Fear since they're daemons in every other way anyways.
Give their Baleblast an increasing effect as pain tokens are gained

Any one of these would improve them to the point of being usable. Any two of them would actually make them an attractive unit choice in their own right.

And now for my proposal: Every DE player seems to have a problem with Mandrakes, or simply ignores them. And a lot of complaining and suggested changes occur, but nothing changes. I propose that we start a petition, if we get enough people on board to show GW that they are missing out on a lot of money then maybe we'll get our change.

And really, how hard would it be for them to release a FAQ that changes the Mandrake rules to make them competitive?
gamefaqs@gwplc.com

You're kidding yourself with the last two paragraphs, an online petition would do nothing. The best that we can hope for with Mandrakes is that 6th ed rules throws them a bone. If not, we'll have to wait another decade before they get a new codex.

Out of your suggestions though, Kheradruakh would be okay if he could assault when he arrives, but doing that for all Mandrakes would be a little OP, unless that becomes the norm for all DS-ing units. Could make a good house rule though.

I'd disagree with boosting their stats, but I like the idea of them lowering their oponents by one, It just seems more fluffy. Unfortunately though, I dont think 1 stat boost or hit and run would really make up for their biggest flaw. As long as they have to arrive in a big bunch and sit there for a turn getting shot and, they're never going to be competitive.

I'd give em' a boosted Iv save. And yeeeh, the petition is kind of, ehhhhhhhh,

Unless I missed something as long as you have first turn they can assault that turn, yes?

I don't like the stat boosting thing either, I much prefer my fluffier stat-drain option, but I added it as an aside because as far as I know there is no precedent for a unit draining other unit's stats like that.

As far as the petition goes, yeah I figured that would be everyone's reaction, GW is famous for ignoring their customers' wishes, but I was being optimistic, and hey, it was worth a try.

Crimson seraph, rad nades drain toughness in the first round of combat, and scarabs slowly chip away armor in increments. So drain type effects could work.

As for mandrake rules, give them rending ccw on 2 pain tokens, and poison on 3 pain tokens. They already get the shooting with 1 token, so them powering up in battle could be terrifying, but unique and inline with their new rules.

Personally, allowing them to atttack through cover at initiative, would make the most sense. Surely, there cost alone warrants plasma grenades.
The other two I liked were making the Decapitator an ic, & allowing him to take Mandrakes as troops. These would be such an easy fix, for some of the coolest models around.

so many things could be done, or really anything to buff them.

rending, 4++ ignore terrain. some grenade effect at least. They are a unit that is suppose to sneak up through cover and assault yet they have no grenades!

Kheradruakh needs to be able to assault the turn he arrives, otherwise.... just awful

There's so many things that could be done to make them useful.

The nightfiend coming with Altered Physique (pain token), and/or them having 2 wounds would be ideal.

I think Mandrakes are more a shooty unit
On a 48" board, you infiltrate 12" ahead of your lines, in cover of course, get a Haemonculus in a Raider to join them and you have 1 pain token, FnP and can shoot your Baleblast if the enemy is in range.

Painbiro wrote:I think Mandrakes are more a shooty unit
On a 48" board, you infiltrate 12" ahead of your lines, in cover of course, get a Haemonculus in a Raider to join them and you have 1 pain token, FnP and can shoot your Baleblast if the enemy is in range.

having to add a haemi and a raider ruins the already expensive squad. also it limits your infiltration to only 12" ahead of your lines. All this for str4 ap4 assault2 pinning?

I'd say give them the top 5 of the poll results:

Giving them something like "Incorporeal- ignores dangerous terrain" and/or "does not suffer assault through cover penalties

Upping their save to 4+ invulnerable because "to fight them is to fight a living shadow"

Making Kheradruakh an IC

Giving them Kheradruakh's deployment methods but letting them and him assault on the turn that they arrive

Making Kheradruakh their HQ with the option to take them as troops

...This I think is probably satisfactory enough to make everyone happy (I'd hate to see such a badass model go to waste as well)

Shooting attack should be as follows

All assault 2 24" range
No Token: S3 Ap 6
1 Token: S4 Ap5
2 Toekn: S5 Ap4
3 Token: S6 Ap 3
4+ gains rending

With a new DE FAQ coming out, and the changes that it sounds like they're making(HUSKBLADES! If you believe the rumour... I do.)
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/07/dark-eldar-with-new-faq-on-way.html
It sounds like GW is finally listening to our requests for changes and doing something about them!

If it is true then there is no time like now to start asking them to change Mandrakes into something more competative (AND FLUFFIER TOO!)

Email them at
gamefaqs@gwplc.com

Honestly, just convert them into Harliquins.

-Matt

Or ally with Eldar and have them count as Warp Spiders?

I voted for the 4+ inv, (I think) the strength debuff and "other". Honestly, I think just giving them shooting attacks from the off would be ok. If they can pin a squad they're looking to assault they'll be a much stronger unit.

Personally though, I'm not one of the many 'drake hates. I've said it loads of times - they have a use, though the success of said use is a little hazy...

I frequently play against Tau, and have used them to sneak up on XV88's and tie them up in CC for numerous turns. To me, the drakes are all about firepower denial, ensuring my gun boats are being shot at less. And it's worked to great effect too!

Now for the usual flame shield - no I've not run them in a tourny, having never played one, no I'm not taking the piss, yes they may be seen as a costly suicide squad at 75 points for 5, but when they can potentially save your boat of warriors / trueborn / wyches / bloodbrides, they've paid themselves off. And they're survivable in that situation too.

As a mostly line Necron player, having them assault with Kheradruakh the turn they arrive would suck to face, but thats what I voted for because I really think that would be fair.

I also voted for Kheradruakh making them troops and Kheradruakh becoming a IC. It would give DE another nice army option if all of these things became true.

I'd prefer the old style mandrake deployment, where you put a number of tokens on the table and could move them as normal, and reveal any of them to be the unit when they came in... Check the 3rd Edition codex

Other: just make them cheaper.

Just one thing:

For each unsaved wound from "bale blast" subtract 1 leadership to a maximum of -3 towards a pinning check.

It was in the leaked 6th ed rule book and this would have solved their lack of grenades since the target could be pinned.

I do like, however, the idea of making them a troop choice if you take kheradruahk but he needs the same fix as the mandrakes thus maybe making an unsaved bale blast from him is a flat -2 and two unsaved wounds would make it -3 to the enemies leadership.

So most people agree that the Mandrake as is would be somewhat worth it if it was reduced to about what a Trueborn costs.
Since my point is more to make them match their fluff than to make them the perfect unit I do not think that they need their S: 4 as it is not mentioned in their fluff. I think that this would take them down to about what a Warrior costs. Making them officially Daemons would give them Fear, so that takes care of the WS drain ability, increasing them back to around Trueborn costs. Add hit and run for their moving between shadows and that boosts them back to their original cost. Add Touch of Death and Incorporeal and that takes them up to about what Incubi cost and makes them an Elite unit worth taking.
The additions to the Nightfiend are in my estimation about even with the additions that other upgrade characters bring with them to a unit, assuming that we price the Nightfiend like a Klaivex.

Mandrakes

Mandrake: WS: 4, BS: 4, S: 3, T: 3, W: 1, I: 5, A: 2, Ld: 8, Sv: 5++
Nightfiend: WS: 4, BS: 4, S: 3, T: 3, W: 1, I: 5, A: 3, Ld: 9, Sv: 5++

UNIT TYPE: Infantry

COMPOSITION: 3-10

WARGEAR: Evil-looking blade and claws, (counts as two ccws)

SPECIAL RULES: Night vision, Power from pain, Fleet, Infiltrate, Move through cover, Stealth, Daemon, Hit and run

Touch of Death: Mandrakes drain the vitality from their victims as they fight, any model engaged with a Mandrake loses 1 strength.

Baleblast:

Incorporeal: Mandrakes are treated as having assault grenades

Fleshbane: (Nightfiend only)

Creeping Darkness: (Nightfiend only)
A pool of shadow follows the Nightfiend: Any unit with a Nightfiend counts as having Phantasm Grenade Launcher

Oh yeah, and Kheradruakh as an IC that can only join Mandrakes, and if he is deployed alone per his rules then he can assault the turn he arrives. And Makes Mandrakes a troop choice.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Seriously though, send your ideas to fix Mandrakes to GW, we might get our way with this new FAQ. Apparently they heard us on the huskblade ...

gamefaqs@gwplc.com

I mean really, what can it hurt? People whine online endlessly, but ask them to whine to someone who can actually fix the problem and suddenly they can't find the time??