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Ok so I know raven wing is a bike army but i know space marines can do the same.

Eldar have a jet bike army, orks can aswell.

I want an all bike/fast army.

so I have a eldar jet bike army list alreaady written up, but I don' think that is as competitive as a ravenwing or SM bike army.

Question 1

so for raven wing, do you want more bikes or massed landspeeders?

Question 2

are an all bike ork army do well? (I know vs GK they are already dead)

Question 3

if i build the most competitive list for all of them which is be the best? (inclined to think ravenwing)

* Eldar make a poor bike army. They don't have the weapons to get the job done.

* For a detailed thread on bike armies, look here. We talked a lot about it last week, and there is no need to retype the same stuff There is lots of good stuff there.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/428289.page

* Ork bike armies are slightly flat. While nob bikers are good, the rest of the army just can't really hold up. Its best to go with nobs and BWs.

Enjoy!!!

Sadly right now it is not the Ravenwing.

Personnally, for a combination of speed, firepower and closecombat I think Khan on a bike beats it out. Khan provides pluses for the unit attached while Sammael does nothing.

Eldar suck at HTH. Orks at shooting. Both lose out to the flexibility that any Marine bike army is going to bring.

Kahn is good if your going to be using terminators as well. This really comes into play at high point games. Otherwise just use a good old C:SM captain.

The problem with bikers orks in assault is that there are only 10 of em, and their not much tougher than normal boyz. Unlike foot orks, you can't swamp the board with them. They just don't have enough bodies to pull through.

Eldar just don't have the guns. A shuriken cannon is ... very bla. C:SM bikers get 2 PG/MG and 1 MM bike per squad. Now were talking!

Marthike wrote:
Question 1
so for raven wing, do you want more bikes or massed landspeeders?

Eh, would probably take vanilla marines over ravenwing. Probably bikes with some landspeeders as support.

Question 2
are an all bike ork army do well? (I know vs GK they are already dead)

Not really.

Question 3
if i build the most competitive list for all of them which is be the best? (inclined to think ravenwing)

Personally, probably vanilla marines. Here is an interesting list to take a look at:

http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2012/02/space-marine-bikers-where-are-they-now/

Eldar jetbike lists can be very fun and powerful, but can also be VERY unforgiving.

The key is really the Jetseer council + Jetarch. They are your real heavy lifters. You combine their fast closing ability with 2x Prisms and either a DAVU Holo-Falcon or Night spinner. Your HQs and Heavies are your strong units, and must be used to maximum effect. The bikes are there simply for clean up, tranport popping, and objective holding.

The rest of the list is filled with one of 2 types of bike units: A) 6 bikes 2x Shuriken Cannon + Ebolden lock with spear, or B) 3 Jetbikes 1x Shuriken Cannon + Ebolden lock with spear. Type A is your all around unit for engaging the enemy, while Type B is simply a chaper alternative for turboing aorund the table and objective holding.

Yes, eldar Jetbikes are fragile, but 2x Cannon + Spear destroys light vehicles, while the Spear alone can kill heavy vehicles. For disembarked units, the TL shuricats will do a number on most units if you have doomed the target. They key is using Jetbikes greatest advantage - movement. With a 12" move, shoot, then 6" move, they are the most moblie bike army. Also remember that since they are Jetbikes, they are the only biker army that can go up into multiple lvl ruins, making them much more capable in dealing with objective games where your opponent can hide the objective on a 3rd or 4th floor.

Some people argue against the Jetarch, but I have found his access to a PW/Laser Lance a huge boon to the council, and his reserves manipulation is key.

I run such a list, and it does well. However, you need to know going in that converting the council is expensive, and the learning curve for such a list is steep to say the least. If you are going first, then you must be aggressive and take out key threats turn one, period. If you go second, your best bet is typically to come in from reserve and limit your opponents number of effective turns, using the Autarch to maximum effect.

Are they the strongest bike list? No, but then again, no bike list is top tier at the moment anyway, so pick a list that is enjoyable to play, if you are set on going with bikes. Are they competitive? Yes, in the right hands they are quite capable.

this is my eldar list

HQ - Farseer - jetbike - singing spear - Doom - fortune. 143 pts
HQ* - 5x Warlock - jetbike - 2x Destructor - 1x Enhance - 1x Embolden. 265 pts
EL - 5x Fire dragon - Waveserpent - spirit stone. 205pts
EL - 5x Fire dragon - Waveserpent - spirit stone. 205pts
EL - 5x Fire dragon - Waveserpent - spirit stone. 205pts
TR - 6x jetbike - 2x shriken cannon. 152pts
TR - 6x jetbike - 2x shriken cannon. 152pts
TR - 3x jetbike - 1x shriken cannon. 76pts
HS - Fire prism. 115pts
HS - Fire prism. 115pts
HS - Fire prism. 115pts

I have played around with a few marine bike lists. Ravenwing is good as they go.

You want just the 3 typhoons with Ravenwing as the troop landspeeders are no longer scoring :(

Right now ravenwing looks like an ultra MSU army. 3 man double melta or plasma squads and singleton MM attack bike.

Sammael is awesome, on a bike or a speeder.

Shining spears shouldn't be ignored in a bike build.
A full squad, with exarch and attached Autarch will just about wipe a full 10 man mec squad on the charge.
If you go with a Farseer + warlocks on bikes, Autarch on bike, 1 or 2 units of shining spears, 2 fire prisms, 1 night spinner then 6 units of bikes as troops, all with warlocks with spears.

It's all about avoid and swarm. Or, it's all about hoping you don't face the IG parking lot.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:Shining spears shouldn't be ignored in a bike build.
A full squad, with exarch and attached Autarch will just about wipe a full 10 man mec squad on the charge.
If you go with a Farseer + warlocks on bikes, Autarch on bike, 1 or 2 units of shining spears, 2 fire prisms, 1 night spinner then 6 units of bikes as troops, all with warlocks with spears.

It's all about avoid and swarm. Or, it's all about hoping you don't face the IG parking lot.

-Matt

There aren't enough points for all that short of apoc or 'ard boys...

As for Shining Spears: They really aren't that good for their points. A single unit can have its uses, but you have to realize that they are as fragile as Jetbikes and do not score. Generally speaking, points spenton them are better spent on a bigger council or more scoring units. Again, they can be effective if used perfectly, however, most Eldar generals skip them with good reason, even Saim-Hann generals. If they were to cost less, sure, but as they stand now, they are just too pricey and fragile for what they can do against most armies.

I think the most disgusting Bike army would be a bike army with vulkan and bike captain. - Albeit wouldt work well on 1.5k and below.

Twin linked flamers and multimeltas on a very fast yet scoring platform is just ridiculous.

Imagine: A bike squad that has 2 flamers and a MM with PFist that can literally kill anything it can handle or run away from things it cant.

You can pitch in a landraider to provide LOS block for your bikes too, and it can match speed with the bikes. And ofcourse, vulkan needs that ride too.

It is a fluff killer but I dont think other bike armies can put out the same deadly firepower and reliability as vanilla.

Blood angels - T5 and FNP?

Phototoxin wrote:Blood angels - T5 and FNP?

A bike army with no scoring bikers aint really a bike army now is it? =P

MFletch wrote:I have played around with a few marine bike lists. Ravenwing is good as they go.

You want just the 3 typhoons with Ravenwing as the troop landspeeders are no longer scoring :(
Right now ravenwing looks like an ultra MSU army. 3 man double melta or plasma squads and singleton MM attack bike.

Sammael is awesome, on a bike or a speeder.

Where does it says that?

Main rulebook, vehicles cannot score. Bikes are infantry, so troop bikers can score. However, the land speeder Typhoon is a vehicle, so cannot score. It may, however, contest.

liquidjoshi wrote:Main rulebook, vehicles cannot score. Bikes are infantry, so troop bikers can score. However, the land speeder Typhoon is a vehicle, so cannot score. It may, however, contest.

I wasnt arguing about the Typhoon but the Speeder bought alongside a troops RW squad. The DA codex explicitly states that it is scoring so specific >> general. So unless there is some errata or similar stating that the RW troops speeder doesnt score it will very much score according to the rules.

New faqs errata'd scoring landspeeders out i think.

I cant find anything in the 1.1 FAQ about it. Do you know where I can find any such information?

1.2 released last month it is on their website. You need to also look up the page mentioned earlier in the rulebook.

MFletch wrote:1.2 released last month it is on their website. You need to also look up the page mentioned earlier in the rulebook.

Bah, they managed to make the subpar land speeder totaly craptastic. Awesome!
Why do I also need to look up the previously mentioned page in the rule book? I already stated that Im well aware of the fact that vehicles normaly dont count as scoring (and apparently the only exception to that has now been removed)

Normal SM IMO have the best biker army. Plus you can tack in Vulkan to make all your bikes meltas Twin Linked! Thats pretty rad to me Of course adding a slow HQ is against the Biker way.... either way though, SM can build a better and more balanced bike list than any other army.

tedurur wrote:

MFletch wrote:1.2 released last month it is on their website. You need to also look up the page mentioned earlier in the rulebook.

Bah, they managed to make the subpar land speeder totaly craptastic. Awesome!
Why do I also need to look up the previously mentioned page in the rule book? I already stated that Im well aware of the fact that vehicles normaly dont count as scoring (and apparently the only exception to that has now been removed)

The grey knights have an exception described in their FAQ.

I find it odd that Vulkan can be mentioned without even giving a defence of how important combat tactics is to bike armies.