Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Let him take a Banner Grot that gives +1 to hit in CC to units within 6". That'd be gross. Hahaha!

Do you really want to warp the Ork codex around Ghaz?

He should be good, but not an auto-take.

Well, he DOES cost more than a full 30 pack Boy Mob. I would hope he'd be able to, at least, provide the same value that they do.

But I agree. Part of why I think he should be an LoW instead of an HQ. It's harder to fit a LoW into your list, just because you're gonna be losing up to 4 CP to do so. At least. A Supreme Command with Ghaz and 3 Weirdboyz is gonna run ya over 400 pts, and give you 1 CP, versus 210ish pts for a Battalion with two Weirdboyz and 30 Gretchin.

Basically, he should be good enough that, as a LoW, he's worth the loss of CP and the 250ish pt pricetag.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If he stays as an HQ, literally just dropping the Kultur lock would be plenty, in my eyes. Maybe a point drop so he doesn't cost twice what every other HQ option does.

I agree that Ghaz shouldn't be an auto include for every Ork army but at the moment he just isn't taken in competitive play so he certainly needs a buff if he receives a new model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also hope it's a dual MA warboss kit and they get some sort of buff too.

My biggest hope is that they bring out a plastic kit which could make Ghazzie or a megaboss, and the megaboss makes a comeback.

What if ghazzie has a "quit yer squabblin'!" rule which means, as long as he's alive, cultures don't matter for mixing (you can embark or use grot shields between klans), but as soon as he dies, the old animosity comes back?

Ghazghkull doesn't really need any help in form of melee buffs. Goff boyz near him already murder anything, especially when upgraded to scarboys. I had 20+ scar boyz (don't remember how many exactly) with Thrakka and Banner support one-round an enemy PBC, the only other model to ever do that was Abbaddon himself. He also is tough as nails, due to 2+/4++/T6/8W he is way more durable than DP and many other hard to kill characters and he pretty much minces anything he touches due to his goff trait, extra attacks from his own aura and the built-in relic klaw.

The one problem is, you can't get him where you need him. Tellyporting and jumping is unreliable, transports suck and we all know how walking across the board works out. If he had the movement speed of smash captains, winged princes or tyrants, his points would be right on spot.

So giving him an ability that gets him (and ladz around him) into combat faster (like +1 to move/charge/advance) would probably best for him.

I almost feel like the Goff Kultur should have just been an army-wide +1 to Strength, with Skarboyz giving -1 to AP, and the Warlord Trait giving a +1 to Attack within 6". Probably would have made the whole Kultur far more viable.

Yeah, +1 strength would have been much more versatile than even more attacks. Or change the skarboyz stratagem to 1/2/3CP for 1/3/5 mobs. Or just flat 2or3 CP to update all of them - that would even help battlewagons and trukks.

I'm very far down the rabbit hole for list building right now as I'm trying to get ahead of the marine meta. Looking for some feedback on which list YOU think is best in ITC tournament settings in the advent of our new iron hand lords. There is a high amount of imperial car parks in my meta, and Australia is generally pretty skewed towards super heavies. GSC is gaining a lot of ground too, however.

LISTS!
#1 This is a turn 2 or 3 list that seeks to guarantee recon and behind enemy lines. Clearing the way with dakka jets before setting up 90-ish boys to charge turn 2, maybe deepstriking one blob, jumping one, and stormboyz afterwards. this is a turn 1 tankbusta jump to cripple, turn 2 win the game list.

#2Similar to list 1, but with a little more spice (scrapjet) and a tripple battalion instead, more CP less boyz, one more weirdboy.

#3 This list is leaning on the durability of battlewagons. One wagon is filled with tankbustas and is a must kill, the other with nobz. This gives your dakka jets and scrapjets time to play (ideally). This is a threat overload list. Boyz might be the wrong answer here, and it might be just add smasha gunz.

#4
This list isn't good, but there are some ideas I like. Bonebreakas smash marines and are tough as nails for them to deal with. If you cripple their anti tank with tankbustas you have 36 wounds of battlewagon doing work for quite some time. I also think Snikrot is going to be mint vs marines, and you have the 30 badmoon shoota boyz here for screen clearing unlike other lists. I cant decide if i want to run at people or counter charge with this list, but i'm glad it has the flexibility.



I would love your opinion as to which you would play in a marine heavy meta and what changes you would make. I clearly have some favourites, like the SSAG, tankbustas, and maybe even dakkajets, but i'm open to most competitive choices. I have 16 mek gunz, lootas and flashgitz waiting too, but I think mek gunz/lootas are a liability unless you build a castle, and I'm not into that playstyle. I really enjoy the charge phase. Aaaaand I dunno, flashgitz might be awesome but I'm not willing to paint another 100 grots yet.

thats sorta my problem with Goffs.
The exploding 6s is nice but generally not needed. Either they overkill what they were charging even without that extra attack, or they were unlikely to do damage in the first place so probably did an extra wound or two in the end.
Armywide +1 strength would have been far better as that breaches all our units' across a major threshold: S4>S5. We'd wound literally everything on 5s or better unless they had a -1 to wound somewhere.
Wounding on 5s is far better than extra attacks on 6s.

None of those strike me as particularly powerful. The first two are lacking in the shooting compartment, and IMO 20 stormboyz don't make sense, go 30 or go home.

In the other two I think you are overestimating the durability of wagons - the main weakness is their 4+ armor, so even when wounding on 6s, just bolters and krak grenades (intercessor launch them at 30") can take big chunk out of them, especially when they get -1AP from their doctrine.

If I had to pick, the first one is probably the best one, though it could use wazbom or some smashas for extra ranged oomph.

Yeah wagons really dont last that long.
They last long enough to soak up a fair amount of firepower but thats about it. I pretty much only use them as suicide units these days: T1 charge via the wartrike, it tends to eat all the firepower instead of my actual important stuff because its an immediate threat.
Every time i have tried to make a wagon the focal point of my list, the list flops hardcore. And i love wagons, i have 5 of the dang things after all lol

So Loot It gives a +1 to the unit's Save Characteristic, right? So, if I used it on Ghaz or Badrukk or a character with Da Best Armor, you should be able to improve their Invuln Save too, I think. Though I kinda think it wouldn't work with a KFF.

Reason I think it might work is the FAQ that says improvements to Saves apply to Invulns, unless stated otherwise. And, honestly, a Ghaz with a 3++ would be pretty damn hard to deal with.

Improvement to saving throws apply to invuls, not the stat modifier stuff.
Invuls are not a stat, theyre granted by a rule. The Loot It! stratagem specifically increases their save characteristic, not +1 to the roll

Fair nuff. Was trying to see if Ghaz could be made a bit more viable by sacrificing a Trukk. Guess you're still better off with a Badmoonz Trait, Supa Cybork Wartrike. Pair him with a Trukk or something and Loot It when it pops, for a 3+/4++/5+++ with character protection, T6, and W8. Not quite as nasty as Ghaz, but for half the cost it ain't bad. And it can actually get to where you want it to be reliably.

 Jidmah wrote:
None of those strike me as particularly powerful. The first two are lacking in the shooting compartment, and IMO 20 stormboyz don't make sense, go 30 or go home.

In the other two I think you are overestimating the durability of wagons - the main weakness is their 4+ armor, so even when wounding on 6s, just bolters and krak grenades (intercessor launch them at 30") can take big chunk out of them, especially when they get -1AP from their doctrine.

If I had to pick, the first one is probably the best one, though it could use wazbom or some smashas for extra ranged oomph.

Appreciate it Jid!

@Hollow One, yoy should focus your lists more on one aspect or the other. Mixes don't do so well. Go heavy, go shooty, go horde or go home.

I've tried those mixed armies as well, doesn't work quite as good.

And against lot's of heavies like Knights? Triple Big Meks with SAGs seems to be pretty hot.

I finally got to do my first ITC Tourney.
I ended up going 2 losses and 1 win, losing to nids, winning against spacewolves, and losing again to astra militarum souped with SW dreads and an assassin.
First game was good, I made mistakes and my opponent capitalised on them well. He ended up denying my ability to counter his Genestealers at one point and that ended up being game as we shredded through my boyz and tagged all my dakka.
Even though he krumped me hard, he ran me through all my mistakes at the end of the match which was helpful.
I found out after the fact that he actually plays orks too, and not only that but he's ranked 8th globally and probably ranked 1st in Australia. He gave me a lot of advice regarding my list and choices I made which was super helpful.
Main pointers he had was that I pushed forward my boyz too much, giving him too much to work with, I denied myself charges by shooting at screens, and he suggested I put more focus in my list given because I was splitting CP between boyz, characters, and dakka.
Second round was against space wolves. I was able to dominate board control and just kill his threats easily.
Third round was a bit rough against the imperium soup, I was tired and tilted and made a lot of mistakes and picked recon as a secondary and just couldn't make it happen. I think learning to deal with the fatigue would help a lot.

Here's my list:


My thoughts after the tourney.
- I gotta embrace the chess clock. I didn't use one in any of my games but I was practising my speed at prior practice games. I think my last two opponents played relatively slow and it would of been plausible to get a time advantage.
- I'm not 100% certain about running lootas right now, they feel like such a CP sink and I'd much rather dump it into something else.
- I need to pre-plan deployments and work on my positioning, I gave my opponents head hunter through sheer bad positioning in all of my games.

Good job, buddy. Yeah, list focus is very important for Orkz. We can burn through an easy 6+ CP a turn, if we ain't careful. Sometimes it's good to have a lot of options, but you also got to know when to use each option to make your CP last.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the chess clock note: be aware that Orkz tend to suffer more than most with a clock. Especially if you're running infantry, because moving 90+ models can eat a LOT of time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Been thinking about Kultur a bit. I think the "top 4" are in a good place already (Bad Moonz, Death Skullz, Freebooter, and Evil Sunz), but the other three (Goff, Snakebitez, Blood Axez) really need some love to bring them up to the same level.

My suggestions would be:

Goff: replace exploding 6s with +1 to Strength and make Skar Boyz give an additional point of AP in CC. This fits with Goffs being the "biggest and da strongest".

Snakebitez: just add "Snakebitez GRETCHIN can use Stratagems" and suddenly this Kultur goes from the worst to competitive. Killa Kanz go from Red to Blue, easy. Makes sense that a more "feral" Kultur would have Grots that are better able to emulate their bigger cousins.

Blood Axez: this one is easy too. Keep the "cover outside of 18 inches" ability, and replace the "fallback and shoot or charge" with "add 6" to the Range of Infantry Assault and Pistols". Not only does this mean a lot more of your army can benefit from the cover thing, but now Burna Boyz become usable! A "taktikal" Kultur would be able to make the most out of their weapons range, after all.

Hey Boyz!! I am starting to think about an only Evil Sunz 1750pts all comers list for a Comp next year
Any help on examples would be much appreciated

You prefer Infantry or Mechanized? The former will probably be more optimized for ya, but your personal playstyle plays more into whether you win or lose than just taking the best stuff.

 flandarz wrote:
Good job, buddy. Yeah, list focus is very important for Orkz. We can burn through an easy 6+ CP a turn, if we ain't careful. Sometimes it's good to have a lot of options, but you also got to know when to use each option to make your CP last.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the chess clock note: be aware that Orkz tend to suffer more than most with a clock. Especially if you're running infantry, because moving 90+ models can eat a LOT of time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Been thinking about Kultur a bit. I think the "top 4" are in a good place already (Bad Moonz, Death Skullz, Freebooter, and Evil Sunz), but the other three (Goff, Snakebitez, Blood Axez) really need some love to bring them up to the same level.

My suggestions would be:

Goff: replace exploding 6s with +1 to Strength and make Skar Boyz give an additional point of AP in CC. This fits with Goffs being the "biggest and da strongest".

Snakebitez: just add "Snakebitez GRETCHIN can use Stratagems" and suddenly this Kultur goes from the worst to competitive. Killa Kanz go from Red to Blue, easy. Makes sense that a more "feral" Kultur would have Grots that are better able to emulate their bigger cousins.

Blood Axez: this one is easy too. Keep the "cover outside of 18 inches" ability, and replace the "fallback and shoot or charge" with "add 6" to the Range of Infantry Assault and Pistols". Not only does this mean a lot more of your army can benefit from the cover thing, but now Burna Boyz become usable! A "taktikal" Kultur would be able to make the most out of their weapons range, after all.

100% agree with the changes to kulturs, though I'm not entirely sure if longer range weapons is necessarily a Blood Axe thing tbh. Maybe when being shot at or charged, once per turn, Blood Axe units may elect to move up 5" away from the unit that is shooting/charging instead of overwatching? (in the case of being charged for the latter). This way you can get more potential mileage out of the 18" range for cover and also gives a more tactical feel of the Blood Axe boyz knowing when to get stuck in at the right moment. This also makes it so Blood Axe tanks are actually pretty decent at long range.

To be honest, that one was mostly wishful thinking on my part for making Burnas viable. What Blood Axes should REALLY have is the exact same thing Hive Jorg has for Tyranids. "Count as in Cover as long as you don't Advance or Charge during this turn/the previous turn."

Blood Axes- Count as cover if outside 12". Same range as every other factions count as cover.... Keep the fallback and shoot or charge.

Blood Axe Stratagem- Change it to allow Blood Axe units to move up to 9" at start of game 1/2cp for same PLs as current. With tellyporta its almost redundant- there are a few units you can get for 1CP if they are 10 models (bustaz/lootas/burnaz..) but overall not very good.



Ard Boyz- 2CP, gives boyz unit a 4+ armor save (not 5+)

Oh yeah. 'ard Boyz is basically worthless as it is.

I'm looking for some critique on my Ork list for an upcoming coming tournament this November. This tournament is a combination ITC and Maelstrom, so I need to tweak the list to account for both styles of play. The other stipulation is that no index units/options are allowed, so I recently had to swap out my KFF big mek on bike for the wartrike, which hasn't really been pulling his weight. I'm also looking to swap out my Deff koptas too, as they usually just give up first blood and without index options, I cant take the bombs. It's not all doom and gloom though, this list has won me 5/7 games in my meta, the only lists I've lost to had the dreaded shadowsword and an ork list pre loota mob up nerf with 180 boys and Suped up SAG. Anyways, enough rambling, heres the list:

**edited because I'm an illiterate gretchin**

Lists go into spoilers, or ya get krumped!

If the list is already working for you, then I wouldn't change a thing. No sense making changes when what you got already works.

*starts beating AngryMedic with a big choppa*

No advice for gitz not followin' da rules!

Not even sure if i'd use 'Ard Boyz for 2cp at 4+ armor.
Yeah they could go 3+ if a vehicle died near them but unless it was a rather important one (i.e. a naut) i dont see a vehicle near a squad of boyz midfield dying all that often. Unless its their transport, which means you spend 2cp on a squad of nor more than 20 boyz (very not worth it then)

Really, 'Ard Boyz should probably just give T5. That pushes them over that milestone, meaning anti-infantry will have a harder time taking them down.