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Hi.

In general, my question is how important most of you think it is that an army painted, lets say, Green and white (Your own chapter) played as vanilla marines. Coult if I add 5 thunderwolf cavallry be played as spacewolves?
Or if I have lets say, a model very similar as Astaroth the grim, could be played as Blood angels army. If you keep assualt marines sepparated from your priests of sanguine.

You see, I've been playing this game for quite some time. BUT, Dont have the money or time to spare to build 2000 pts of chaos, GK's SW's or blood angels. But I would very much like to play all different chapters.

Do you understand what I write or is my swedish thoughts weird to you?

Just a thought, Since we in sweden, when we have tournaments are quite overseeing with such things. We, too 95% allow that sort of armies if they are convincing enough.
But I've heard, since I've never been to the states or UK for tournaments, that the lot outside the north is quite conservative too those kind of "rules".

No problem at all, I play my exorcists as Vanila or Blood angels and even Space Wolves depending on how I feel. As long as the model matches the profile nobody should care about the paint scheme.

My Brothers of Caliban army is specifically made to be played as any "marine" codex I feel like.

As long as your models are WYSIWYG nobody has any legitimate reason to complain.

Fine, as long as the weapons are correct, and it's fairly obvious what is what.

Thats nice to hear. My thoughts is that, as long as your melta dude carries a meltagun and not a missile launchers, I'd say it's a go.

The only SM army you can't easy get WYSIWYG with, are GK do to there weapon loadout.

Tbh, i don't think WYSIWYG is all that important unless its completely ridiculous like, proxying a land raider for a razorback kinda thing.

I have a rhino, not a tank, an actualy small plastic rhino from a kinder egg that serves as a meltagunner until i either A) Get some meltaguns and glue them onto my spare guys (Darn GW not giving me any special weapons!) or B) Get some meltaguns, and glue them to the rhino's shoulder - or take the muzzle off and glue it to his mouth!

At least its a memorable thing when someone says that a small rhino has a meltagun, its quite funny.

I think that using a toy Rhinoceros as a proxy for a 40K Rhino would be the epitome of completely ridiculous.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:I think that using a toy Rhinoceros as a proxy for a 40K Rhino would be the epitome of completely ridiculous.

Or genius It's not really a proxy-it's a creative spin. I wonder where they'd put the storm bolter...and man, I'd rather leave a side hatch than the rear one...

Yarrick The Necron wrote:Tbh, i don't think WYSIWYG is all that important unless its completely ridiculous like, proxying a land raider for a razorback kinda thing.

I have a rhino, not a tank, an actualy small plastic rhino from a kinder egg that serves as a meltagunner until i either A) Get some meltaguns and glue them onto my spare guys (Darn GW not giving me any special weapons!) or B) Get some meltaguns, and glue them to the rhino's shoulder - or take the muzzle off and glue it to his mouth!

At least its a memorable thing when someone says that a small rhino has a meltagun, its quite funny.

It is very important. You have to know what your opponent has so you can make the right calls when you play. I charged a unit once, and the kid announces to me at that point that all guys carrying power swords that are painted red are power fists. Unless it was also painted silver, or if the guy had a red stripe. So of course, I had already charged in, and put my no-invuln character in BTB with power fist guy.

Bad form.

All count's as should be uniform and easy to tell.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:I think that using a toy Rhinoceros as a proxy for a 40K Rhino would be the epitome of completely ridiculous.

If they were the right size, painted and had little saddles, I would shake that man's hand and tell him he was made of awesome!

General rule for me is if it makes since (regular Stormbolter termies have SS/TH instead) and is army wide (previous case is true for all terminator squads), I will except it.

The only non-WYSIWIG I do is not put adrenal glands/toxin sacs on my Nids. They simply look dumb on the outside. I just make sure it's easy to know which unit has what (like, all my Hormagaunts run with adrenal glands, and outside of guants, I have no 'repeat' units that have options, so there's no chance of getting mixed up between say, two Warrior squads equipped the same with different upgrades).

Haven't had complaints.

At my club they let me use my Orks as Space Marines. The Shoota Boys are tacticals, the Stormboys are assaults, and the Loota Boys count as Heavy Weapons. I don't like spending money either and this way I can use my models as everything! I'm going to try them as Dark Eldar next.

-Loki- wrote:The only non-WYSIWIG I do is not put adrenal glands/toxin sacs on my Nids. They simply look dumb on the outside. I just make sure it's easy to know which unit has what (like, all my Hormagaunts run with adrenal glands, and outside of guants, I have no 'repeat' units that have options, so there's no chance of getting mixed up between say, two Warrior squads equipped the same with different upgrades).

Haven't had complaints.

Here here. I don't like putting many of the biomorph options on the 'nids. I did put the large adrenal gland on the front of the Carnifex where the upper and lower torsos/legs come together. It's there, but it's hardly noticable. I'd do the barbed hook things coming out of the chests, but probably not the toxin sacs....less they were positioned in the testicular region, but that's just vulgar!

Were you really expecting someone to come in here and say they weren't A-OK with you using green and white marines with thunderwolf cav running around as space wolves? Did you think someone was going to demand you paint them Space Wolf Grey?

Leo_the_Rat wrote:I think that using a toy Rhinoceros as a proxy for a 40K Rhino would be the epitome of completely ridiculous.

I've always thought it looks more like a puma.

MikeMcSomething wrote:Were you really expecting someone to come in here and say they weren't A-OK with you using green and white marines with thunderwolf cav running around as space wolves? Did you think someone was going to demand you paint them Space Wolf Grey?

No he is more worried some ass will make a fuss. That he runs BA with death company one week and SW with thunderwolfs the next, while the rest of the army are the same models, used for both armys.

The only way it would annoy me is if it was done before each game absed on opponents... I.E. "Oh, you're playing Tyranids? Then I'll field as [Whatever SM Chapter is currently best against Tyranids]"

Noir wrote:

MikeMcSomething wrote:Were you really expecting someone to come in here and say they weren't A-OK with you using green and white marines with thunderwolf cav running around as space wolves? Did you think someone was going to demand you paint them Space Wolf Grey?

No he is more worried some ass will make a fuss. That he runs BA with death company one week and SW with thunderwolfs the next, while the rest of the army are the same models, used for both armys.

As long as the codex specific units are correct, there is no issue. If you claim your bikers are bikers one week and then proxied as TWC next week, expect issues.

I agree with alot of the aforementioned notions in regard to WYSIWYG rules.

The color scheme is really irrelevant as long as the weapons are correct for the Chapter you're playing.

Tournaments are a bit more strict, but again color scheme doesn't matter, just as long as the weapons/options are correct for the army you're claiming they are.

As for the "counts as" stuff, that's usually left to casual games. Like proxying an entire army of SM for Eldar, that's really up to your opponent. He's well within his right to refuse and you should make it clear from the start which squad has what if he/she agrees to the game.

This has been my experience and I agree with KGatch113, I don't like being caught off guard with a surprise like that because it feels like your opponent is making up rules to suit himself on the fly and that's an instant-game over in my book after the first/second "well actually they have <insert OP option> wargear on them so..., etc", just not good sportsmanship.

Other than that, enjoy your SM <BA, SW, Smurfs, etc>.

As long as their equipment is right, I don't care what color they are. In point of fact, I have a couple of Blood Angels models and a Space Wolf serving in my Salamanders company. (Brother Tycho looks so much better in green than in gold...)

Leo_the_Rat wrote:I think that using a toy Rhinoceros as a proxy for a 40K Rhino would be the epitome of completely ridiculous.

It's no more ridiculous than saying it's a Meltagun marine?

I run my BA, painted as BA as vanilla marines and SW before. As long as they have the right equipment I don't see an issue. Counts-as should always be cleared with your opponent prior to the game.

biccat wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:I think that using a toy Rhinoceros as a proxy for a 40K Rhino would be the epitome of completely ridiculous.

I've always thought it looks more like a puma.

What's a puma? You made that up

I occaisonally play my raven guard as blood angels. My vanguard veterans have bolt pistols and power weapons (sanguinary guard with glaive encarmines and the bolter things), most of the rest of my army is the same.

shrike wrote:I occaisonally play my raven guard as blood angels. My vanguard veterans have bolt pistols and power weapons (sanguinary guard with glaive encarmines and the bolter things), most of the rest of my army is the same.

Sounds confusing to me especially in a codex with death company, assault marines and you can take vanguard veterans in a BA army. That is by no means WYSIWYG and is a proxy. Sanguary guard have unique rules and wargear which need to be represented opposed to "see these guys with jetpacks count as every other unit which can possibly have jetpacks"

I have used my Black Templars as codex marines because I needed a change of pace. Every weapon was WYSIWYG, though.

nkelsch wrote:

shrike wrote:I occaisonally play my raven guard as blood angels. My vanguard veterans have bolt pistols and power weapons (sanguinary guard with glaive encarmines and the bolter things), most of the rest of my army is the same.

Sounds confusing to me especially in a codex with death company, assault marines and you can take vanguard veterans in a BA army. That is by no means WYSIWYG and is a proxy. Sanguary guard have unique rules and wargear which need to be represented opposed to "see these guys with jetpacks count as every other unit which can possibly have jetpacks"

I only use models which are in C:SM, like terminators, librarians, tactical marines, and my "vanguard veterans" are basically an honour guard for corax, all wearing hooded robes, with heresy-era jump packs, maces and wrist-mounted bolt pistols, so in practically every aspect they fit. The unique wargear is just a two-handed power weapon (AFAIK no extra bonus to that), which is master crafted (I would expect as much for guardians of a primarch) and an AP4 bolt pistol with 2 shots, again, they could easily be well crafted bolt pistols. Decent of angels can easily represent raven guard (masters of the jump pack) and the red thirst I'm counting as the small probability that the clones Corax made at the time could become defective, while fearless could simply represent thier unwillingness to fail at protecting thier primarch under any circumstances.

I think swapping marine armies is fine, as long as it's fairly WYSIWYG (as demostrated above) and you tell the opponent beforehand, including any
counts-as units/models as demonstrated above.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:I think that using a toy Rhinoceros as a proxy for a 40K Rhino would be the epitome of completely ridiculous.

Reread my post, i use him as a meltagunner, not an actual tank!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KGatch113 wrote:

Yarrick The Necron wrote:Tbh, i don't think WYSIWYG is all that important unless its completely ridiculous like, proxying a land raider for a razorback kinda thing.

I have a rhino, not a tank, an actualy small plastic rhino from a kinder egg that serves as a meltagunner until i either A) Get some meltaguns and glue them onto my spare guys (Darn GW not giving me any special weapons!) or B) Get some meltaguns, and glue them to the rhino's shoulder - or take the muzzle off and glue it to his mouth!

At least its a memorable thing when someone says that a small rhino has a meltagun, its quite funny.

It is very important. You have to know what your opponent has so you can make the right calls when you play. I charged a unit once, and the kid announces to me at that point that all guys carrying power swords that are painted red are power fists. Unless it was also painted silver, or if the guy had a red stripe. So of course, I had already charged in, and put my no-invuln character in BTB with power fist guy.

Bad form.

All count's as should be uniform and easy to tell.

I suppose in that case, its pretty darn demoralising but the way you've written it, it just sounds like you've got a bad opponent who hasnt told you before hand what things aren't WYSIWYG.

You're right I misread your post. So let me rephrase my response to using a rhinoceros as a melta gunner is the epitome of completely ridiculous (maybe even beyond that if possible).

Yarrick The Necron wrote:I suppose in that case, its pretty darn demoralising but the way you've written it, it just sounds like you've got a bad opponent who hasnt told you before hand what things aren't WYSIWYG.

I'd say that it wasn't nearly as simple as that. You can explain everything at the start of the game, but if, in the middle of the game, I look across the board and see a Tactical Squad, and then have to correct myself and think 'Oh, wait, that's actually some Grey Hunters', then that's going to be quite annoying for a whole game. Even more so if it's an Assault Squad and, say, Skyclaws - which have different stat lines.

In a tournament, I'd say this has the potential to affect the game. One of the players has to constantly remember what the models are. The other doesn't. The fact that the models are so similar is WHY it's confusing.

Cryb wrote:We, too 95% allow that sort of armies if they are convincing enough.

This is generally the rule here as well, and I agree with it. The problem is the definition of 'convincing enough'. Of course, you can paint the models whatever colour you like, or model them however you want.

But, Space Wolves and Space Marines do not look the same. In a tournament environment, unless I can look across the table and instantly recognise the army as Space Wolves and NOT Space Marines, then it isn't 'convincing enough', in my opinion.