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So what are people’s thoughts on GD spam? I honestly thought choices like Rotigus where borderline competitive even before the changes, so I’m thinking they will be very viable. Maybe pure great unclean ones will be the best option, but some of those other GD look quite juicy as Well. Honestly very pleased with chapter approved expect for the nerfs to plague drones. I guess they where just too good for this world .

So a Gorehound is just a sgt option with an auto-hitting S4 round?

I’ve recently gotten back into the hobby and have started building my Tzeentch daemons army. A couple of mates and I are looking to start off with a few small games and grow our armies from there. Totally new to 8th, last time I played a game was 3rd. I’ve done a bit of reading of the core rules and the daemons codes, but still not sure I have my head around everything.

For the first 250 points, I’m thinking something along these lines. Since I’m building as I go, I’d like to have an idea of whic models I’ll be using from the start, so if you guys have any suggestions I’d love to hear them.

Changecaster 65
10 x Pinks 70
10 x Brims 30
6 x Flamers 84

For a grand total of 249. Stick the herald with either horrors or flamers for the Strength buff. Not sure if Brims are worth it with nothing to screen but not sure how else to use the points.

Other options I guess would be to take an Exalted Flamer over the unit of regular flamers to utilise the brim screen, and throw a few more horrors in with the extra points, or to just take two bigger blobs of horrors for three smites.

Other likely armies are orks, nids, and either guard or tau. I’ll reassess after playing a few games, but at this stage for 500 points I’m thinking the Changecaster, 2 x 20 pink blobs, 1 x 10 brims, the flamers, an exalted Flamer, and 4 screamers, with 18 points to play with - more Brims, maybe a staff of change for the herald.

Not sure I understand the deep strike rules/benefits so I might be missing something important there. Any general tactical advice or unit choice suggestions are very welcome!

Changecasters and pinks are very good. Everything else is solid. After Chapter Approved 2018 comes out next week you'll have some extra points to play with as changecasters and exalted flamers are getting pretty considerable points reductions. Looks like a lot of fun for a 500 point list.


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Salt donkey wrote:
So what are people’s thoughts on GD spam? I honestly thought choices like Rotigus where borderline competitive even before the changes, so I’m thinking they will be very viable. Maybe pure great unclean ones will be the best option, but some of those other GD look quite juicy as Well. Honestly very pleased with chapter approved expect for the nerfs to plague drones. I guess they where just too good for this world .

With the points drops, GD spam probably won't win tournaments (except maybe GUO's according to some here) but for pickup games they should be a lot of fun to play. I'm personally looking forward to fielding Kairos a lot more.

I've seen blurry images of the new bloodcrusher datasheet, but does anyone know what actually changed? As far as I know, it got +1 toughness and wounds.

 vaklor4 wrote:
I've seen blurry images of the new bloodcrusher datasheet, but does anyone know what actually changed? As far as I know, it got +1 toughness and wounds.

Just +1 wound I think

 Rydria wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
I've seen blurry images of the new bloodcrusher datasheet, but does anyone know what actually changed? As far as I know, it got +1 toughness and wounds.

Just +1 wound I think

Thank god. If they were T5, Plague Drones would be basically obsolete.

 Sersi wrote:

Sokhar wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
I wonder what the Infernal harpist does now, I wonder if she is a generic HQ or a new special character.

I would assume "generic HQ" in the mold of the various Nurgle heralds.

Well it turns out she is a generic herald type: "...the Infernal Enrapturess – a new kind of Slaaneshi herald who bolsters summoning and shreds enemy units with sonic waves."

Since summoning is trash she have to do a lot to make it good. I do like that she have a "sonic" weapon though.


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 Excommunicatus wrote:

 Virules wrote:
Honestly I'm considering Fiends now.

Rumours of their uselessness have been greatly exaggerated.

They've never been useless but they're are still over-costed. But it hardly matter now with so many other points drops to make taking them in a list easier.

It be super cool if we got ranged daemonettes armed with various musical instruments as a unit. To go with this new herald.

I disagree, but the Infernal Enrapturess (somebody got paid to come up with that) would look pretty sweet sitting atop an Exalted Chariot.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Rydria wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
I've seen blurry images of the new bloodcrusher datasheet, but does anyone know what actually changed? As far as I know, it got +1 toughness and wounds.

Just +1 wound I think

Thank god. If they were T5, Plague Drones would be basically obsolete.

Would they? Plague Drones have fly, FNP, faster movement and different weapons. If all Crushers get is +1 wound, then it won't help them in the least from still being garbage compared to Bloodletters in every way.

I apologize if this isn't the right place for this... but it does dovetail off of the GD spam being discussed.

Does Rotigus count as a GUO regarding the rule of 3?

So, could we in theory run 3 GOU + Rotigus?

Salt donkey wrote:
So what are people’s thoughts on GD spam? I honestly thought choices like Rotigus where borderline competitive even before the changes, so I’m thinking they will be very viable. Maybe pure great unclean ones will be the best option, but some of those other GD look quite juicy as Well. Honestly very pleased with chapter approved expect for the nerfs to plague drones. I guess they where just too good for this world .

I've got +20 plague drones... really, they are fun to run, and fun to spam, but they are not the end all of this galaxy. I'll still run my +20 drone list from time to time, but it's not like they needed the nerf. I'll just bring one less nurgling unit I guess.

 incarna wrote:
I apologize if this isn't the right place for this... but it does dovetail off of the GD spam being discussed.

Does Rotigus count as a GUO regarding the rule of 3?

So, could we in theory run 3 GOU + Rotigus?

Rule of 3 is for data sheets. Rotigus is his own datasheet, so you are 100% ok with 4* guo. It's how daemon prince spam happens. 3 Death guard, 3 Chaos daemon, 3 CSM and 3 1ksons, because they all have different names and slightly different rules.

Not sure I see how GUO spam will be effective.
Unless someone has a secret strategy that I am unaware of.

 dan2026 wrote:
Not sure I see how GUO spam will be effective.
Unless someone has a secret strategy that I am unaware of.

I was a tournament player roughly 10+ years ago, and just getting back into the hobby again. I know this is a tactics thread, so again I apologize if this isn’t the right place, but my strategy is to fill out a 2k army list as quickly as possible, learn from experience, and then get back into tournament play. GD spam seems like the best way to do that, and I can gradually cut and paste over time as I work towards a more ideal list.

My first list had 9 Beasts of Nurgle, but when I went to my LGS and saw they $40 price tag for what I perceived to be a bad unit, I cut them.

Out of curiosity, at about $1.10-per-point, are Beasts of Nurge the most costly-per-point unit in 40k?

With the new point costs, is it legitimately possible to just do a cavalcade of chariots? Obviously cheap ‘Nette units for troops, but a couple heralds on chariots (from index, obviously, since they were pulled from the book), three seeker chariots, three exalted chariots, three hellflayers, and maybe a couple scary Daemon Princes/Keepers of Secrets. I’ll do points on Saturday, but it seems like a lot of big targets that’ll hit hard.

Battalion Detachment

Chaos Allegiance: Khorne

+ HQ +
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage: Armour of Scorn, Immense Power, Warlord
Skarbrand

+ Troops +
Bloodletters 19x Bloodletter, Bloodreaper, Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos
Bloodletters 19x Bloodletter, Bloodreaper, Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos
Bloodletters 19x Bloodletter, Bloodreaper, Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos

+ Elites +
Bloodcrushers 3x Bloodcrusher, Bloodhunter, Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos

+ Heavy Support
Skull Cannon
Skull Cannon
Skull Cannon

++ Supreme Command Detachment
Chaos Allegiance: Khorne
Rewards of Chaos (2 Relics)

Bloodmaster: The Crimson Crown
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage
Daemon Prince of Chaos: Khorne, Skullreaver

With the new points, assuming I didn't make any major math mistakes should be 2000 on the nose. Will probably swap the crushers for hounds once the models come out. Might not be super competitive, but for pickup games and stuff with friends it doesn't seem too terrible.

Even if the Bloodcrushers +1T rumour proves to be true, I’d still likely switch them for Flesh Hounds in that list for the DTW coverage.

 Sersi wrote:

Sokhar wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
I wonder what the Infernal harpist does now, I wonder if she is a generic HQ or a new special character.

I would assume "generic HQ" in the mold of the various Nurgle heralds.

Well it turns out she is a generic herald type: "...the Infernal Enrapturess – a new kind of Slaaneshi herald who bolsters summoning and shreds enemy units with sonic waves."

Since summoning is trash she have to do a lot to make it good. I do like that she have a "sonic" weapon though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Excommunicatus wrote:

 Virules wrote:
Honestly I'm considering Fiends now.

Rumours of their uselessness have been greatly exaggerated.

They've never been useless but they're are still over-costed. But it hardly matter now with so many other points drops to make taking them in a list easier.

we need to see what specialist detachment in Vigilus expansion will do ,to judge a single model

Fiends also are gettin a new datasheet change soooo keep that in mind lads

 lindsay40k wrote:
Even if the Bloodcrushers +1T rumour proves to be true, I’d still likely switch them for Flesh Hounds in that list for the DTW coverage.

It is true, but I'd still trade them for even just more bloodletters as they are still pretty darn bad.

Been thinking of trying this with the new buffs any opinions/suggested changes that don't involve going off theme ?

I was thinking on maybe dropping a seeker each and adding in an icon to each squad, so I can potentially get the first turn charge with the icon re-roll to hit buffs from the stratagems. (it isn't an optimal list it does require some tweaks) though I do like the idea of having 170 models on the table

I put a Slaanesh list in the army list section too; I'm thinking these new points will be our new best friend!

Oh, definitely take the Icons, getting nineteen or thirty-eight Seekers into melee on the first turn is great.

I can’t help but think maybe trade a squad of Daemonettes for an additional Fiend. If you get first turn or have good cover and make either of those charges, having two chances to hug a unit and make it stand still for a ripping apart in the enemy turn is delicious


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Oops, it’s instruments that give the movement boost, d’oh

A unit of Fiends has to survive at least one round of being swung at for them to have any real point; you need at least two per unit (IMO) and another unit to smash in to take Overwatch and to take some of the heat in the ensuing fight.

Then again, you don't want to wipe whatever you're charging either, so... I think 3x12 Seekers would be better than 2x20 Seekers.

Also, it's kind of weird to invest so much in Seekers and not give them a Herald, nuh?

 Excommunicatus wrote:
A unit of Fiends has to survive at least one round of being swung at for them to have any real point; you need at least two per unit (IMO) and another unit to smash in to take Overwatch and to take some of the heat in the ensuing fight.

Then again, you don't want to wipe whatever you're charging either, so... I think 3x12 Seekers would be better than 2x20 Seekers.

Also, it's kind of weird to invest so much in Seekers and not give them a Herald, nuh?

Normally i conga line 3 seekers to my infantry heralds, since there bases are like 3 inches long 1/2 inch coherency means you can get at least 1 herald aura into range.

I was thinking of deepstriking the fiends later in the game and having them go for the long distance charges (in reality I just wanted to do a battalion)

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I disagree, but the Infernal Enrapturess (somebody got paid to come up with that) would look pretty sweet sitting atop an Exalted Chariot.

Well "Infernal Enrapturess" is still a far better name than any of the new Nurgle Heralds. I assumed that she was mounted until we finally got good pics of the herald. So lets hope that her auras have either good range or effect the entire board; because she doesn't appear to be very mobile. As for boosting summoning hopes she allows us summons free units or drops most of its restrictions.

 Sersi wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I disagree, but the Infernal Enrapturess (somebody got paid to come up with that) would look pretty sweet sitting atop an Exalted Chariot.

Well "Infernal Enrapturess" is still a far better name than any of the new Nurgle Heralds. I assumed that she was mounted until we finally got good pics of the herald. So lets hope that her auras have either good range or effect the entire board; because she doesn't appear to be very mobile. As for boosting summoning hopes she allows us summons free units or drops most of its restrictions.

I wouldn't have the highest hopes, if you set your expectations lower it is harder to be disappointed I just hope she isn't awful.

The model is amazing, and I really want to use her.

 blackmage wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

Sokhar wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
I wonder what the Infernal harpist does now, I wonder if she is a generic HQ or a new special character.

I would assume "generic HQ" in the mold of the various Nurgle heralds.

Well it turns out she is a generic herald type: "...the Infernal Enrapturess – a new kind of Slaaneshi herald who bolsters summoning and shreds enemy units with sonic waves."

Since summoning is trash she have to do a lot to make it good. I do like that she have a "sonic" weapon though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Excommunicatus wrote:

 Virules wrote:
Honestly I'm considering Fiends now.

Rumours of their uselessness have been greatly exaggerated.

They've never been useless but they're are still over-costed. But it hardly matter now with so many other points drops to make taking them in a list easier.

we need to see what specialist detachment in Vigilus expansion will do ,to judge a single model

I wasn't aware that Choas even got a specialist detachment in Vigilus.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vaklor4 wrote:
Fiends also are gettin a new datasheet change soooo keep that in mind lads

We've already seen the Datasheet in CA for Fiends and it was just +1 wound and a unit leader with +1 attack. It's doubtful that we'll see a markedly different datasheet come along with Wrath and Rapture in two weeks.

Is Wrath and Rapture worth getting?

...Oh really? Ouch, okay yeah fiends are still bad.

And I'd say Wrath and Rapture is worth if you want the minis now, since they'll probably delay the solo-boxes for the 4 new models.