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(Double post, due to firefox browser)

Okay,
Some of you may have read that I have a 10 yr service stud in my forehead. This is not an exaggeration. But, it has only been in the last year that I have tried the game part of the hobby, which I?m hoping isn?t rare on the Dakka forums and y?all don?t make me feel like a heretic.

Also it?s only in the last few months that I have had enough of the same armies mini?s to play a decent battle with. As I was primarily a collector and a painter, love the fluff too.

Anyway, I have some Dark Angels and I have only been playing skirmish level games with them and discovered I love the game play of 40k (Yay!). So now I want to build half a battle company?s worth. So if I?m going to invest in that many models and kits I don?t want a crap composition of forces.

So this is a loose list of things I want to add, what I want to know is if anything will be useless to me or if I?m missing something or if something should be swapped with something else etc. etc.

But I don?t want an Uber army so no advice on tweaking it to be a killing machine you could crush a few tournaments with please. As I intend it to be heavily themed, but that doesn?t mean I can?t make it somewhat competitive right? I?m also only marginally worried about to many points; I?m aiming for 2 to 3 grand.

Here we go:

HQ: 2 Terminator command squads both with commanders 1 Master 1 Grand Master Assault Cannon kitted out. These squads I intend for Deep Strike back up for any units that are suffering. As most Sergeants with have a teleport homer.

Elites: 3 Dreadnoughts: 1 Venerable Assault Cannon & M.Launcher ?tank hunter?. 1 ?Mortis? with Quad Autocannons. 1 with Plasma Cannon & M.Launcher. (I also need to get the FW Imperial Armour Book for there rules ). These just look cool and add to the static firing line.

Troops: 3 ? 5 Tactical Squads: These will be mainly kitted out for anti-infantry and heavy infantry. They will also be static firing lines using ?stubborn? to keep them on the board. So most will use Plasma guns as the Special weapon choice.

Troops: 1 Scout Squad: Not to sure how to use the neophytes, but the new plastic kit is nifty so I want some anyway and I already have some sniper scouts. I imagine them for behind lines havoc and pinning troublesome or large squads. I want to use Bolters for standard a Heavy bolter and 2 ? 4 Sniper rifles, I haven?t used ?pinning? but I hear it?s great.

Fast Attack: 2 Assault Squads with Teleport Homers to get my terminators where I need them quick, even If they start on turn two with Jump packs I can get them close enough. Well that?s my logic anyway.

FA: Maybe a Land Speeder squad, 2 Tornados & a Typhoon. Quick response team?

I?m lost on heavy support and would really appreciate some advice here, I love predators and I have been thinking maybe they could be my dedicated anti-armour. But I?ve never used a tank in an army before so I have no idea how they preform.

Cheers

Usiel ? thinking of grandeur, could be delusional

(8 year Dark Angel player)
Why a Grand Master and Master??? All you need is one, then take a Librarian or Chaplain....Fluffwise, the Chaplain is a must, and the Fear of Darkness on a Libby is great for deepstriking.

The Dreads look great..(i have been looking for the Mortis rules but can't find them, if you do let me know)...however, I use the twin-linked lascannon with tank hunters....nothing like a strength 10 weapon vs. tanks.

Troops----lots of Marines=good.....if you want fluff, put Plasmaguns and Plasma Cannons. Scouts would be good to infiltrate and with a teleport homer the termies won't scatter. Pinning is great if it works....

Fast Attack----looks good, but NO typhoon....the Tornado is better (7 shots, 4 are rending!) I personally think Assault squads are a waste in a Dark Angel army, though tactically useful. Replacing them you can get more Tornados...

Heavy---Depends on what you are playing......maybe a couple of predatros...1 destrcutor, 1 annihilator.....i usually take 2 squads of 4 rocket launchers as my devis and a predator annihilator.....nothing like 8 rocket launchers, and 3 lascannons....well there is, but not cost effective.

Over all, I like the idea.....I am planning on revamping my Dark Angels by buying all robed models, yes its expensive, but I want my entire army to have the Monastic appeal, nothing like robed monks kicking your arse.....but I think I will wait a few years until the new codex comes out.

cheers
Soup

forgot to mention.....take the Sword of Secrets, nuff said

I agree completely about the SoS Soup_Nazi, but disagree about the assault marines. DA are in general pretty static shooters and while even a basic Space Marine is good at CC, that assault squad is very useful as a counter-charge unit just floating in the back.

The 'Mortis' Dreadnought rules are found in Forge World's: Imperial Armour volume II, so are the Plasma Cannon for Dreads rules. I intended my Scout Sgt to have a Teleport homer. The 4 M.Launcher Dev Squad sounds like a tounament style addition, I'd prefer Plasma Cannons and Hvy Bolters for the theme of my army.

@Usiel: The 4 M.Launcher Dev Squad sounds like a tounament style addition, I'd prefer Plasma Cannons and Hvy Bolters for the theme of my army.

Actually, in 3rd edition, DA were the only ones allowed to field PC's in thier Tac sqds (possibly Devvy Sqds aswell). Because of this, the PC's are exactly your theme.

Yeah, I remember that.
Just not shure if a Dev Squad would be a little overkill in this army. I do want to lean closer to a 2 grand army. I think a couple of Predators would work out to about the same points ish... maybe ?

Hokay, I?m mostly a competive player but I like to think I give a fun game too. I?ve had some tournament wins and had a top ten GT finish with my DA, including winning one of the Sportsmanship awards (max score plus three of my five opponents voted me their favorite opponent), so I think I can cover both bases for you- fluffy/fun and able to win.

If you go 2k, you?re only going to need one HQ. The second HQ will not be needed except in the bigger games. You can field two, but you?ll be cutting into the model count for your army, which isn?t fluffy or (usually) effective. I agree that either a Master or Grandmaster is fine, then field either a Librarian or Chaplain. All the HQs are solid under the current SM rules. No reason not to buy one of each, honestly, and you can swap them from game to game.

The dreads are cool, but you?re shooting yourself in the foot a bit on the weapons loadouts. The assault cannon has a 24? range- it just doesn?t go with a missile launcher. Your tank-hunting dread should be twin las and ML. This is a classic SM pattern and works well. Plasma and ML isn?t terrible, though I?d recommend letting one of the dreads keep his close combat weapon. It?s fluffy and a nice backup option. The Mortis is just cool. I support it on that basis, if you?re willing to make the investment in the model and the rulebook. BTW, you don?t need Imperial Armour to get a PC on a dread. The Dark Angels V4 FAQ (available on the GW website) allows you to take it.

Tac squads are good. Plasmaguns are good. Ten man squads are good for moving forward to hold ground and assaulting. Rhino assaults have lost a lot of effectiveness since 3rd edition, but speaking from experience, a couple of ten man squads in Rhinos are still good. They can get where you need them, can still Rapidfire the turn they jump out, and can assault on later turns if necessary. If you do this, you need a vet sgt with a power fist or other close combat upgrade. Twin lightning claws are fun to model and effective. A power weapon is better than nothing, but not nearly as good as either of the above options. Meltaguns and Flamers are also good special weapons for a mobile tac squad, but a plasmagun is decent.

Full ten man squads are considered very fluffy (as you probably know if you?ve been reading the fluff that long), but are not good for pure stand-and-shoot units from a gameplay perspective. Units which stand still and shoot need to save points on the extra bodies so you can afford more guns for your army. The heavy and special weapons will be doing the bulk of the killing for them. Six men is usually an ideal size for a tac squad which hangs back and shoots. Five is good too if points are tight, but six is a bit more durable. Plasmacannons are classic DA weapons, but lost a lot of effectiveness in 4th ed due to more restrictive rules on placing the template. It?s usually possible for your opponent to spread his guys out enough that the PC is only able to cover one model, thus negating the entire advantage of having the template in the first place. The only times it really comes in handy are when the enemy is bunched up for some reason. This most often happens when they Deep Strike, or when they disembark from a transport. I still often take one or two in my DA army just for these circumstances. Most of the time, however, you?re going to want Lascannons (or maybe a ML) in shooty Tac squads, because there are a lot of very high armor vehicles in this game, and your infantry-based heavy weapons are a lot harder for your opponent to silence than your vehicle-mounted heavies. The HB, IMO, is really wasted in a tac squad. If you want to take one or two for pure fluff, that?s up to you, but I?d put them in the Rhino squads if anywhere. That way you?re not wasting too many points on the heavy when those squads move. If you go up against a Tyranid or Ork horde and don?t want to move, you can still deploy the squad outside the vehicle and just spray the horde with HB and bolter fire as they come across the table.

Scouts are okay. Pinning, unfortunately, is not very reliable in 40k since so many armies/units are Fearless, but one unit can be mildly useful and fun.

Assault squads are good, but pricey. I don?t know if you?re going to be able to afford two unless you?re taking little 5-6 man units, which aren?t actually very good in assault. Still, a five-man unit with two flamers and meltabombs can be a useful tool for other roles than traditional assault. It can hunt vehicles and toast light infantry with the flamers. This role might mesh with your teleport homer idea. Personally, my DA use an eight man squad most of the time, with two plasma pistols and a Vet Sgt using a Powerfist. These guys are obviously meant as a primary assault unit. Attaching a character can also have nice combo value with assault marines.  My Chaplain, for example, often goes with mine, allowing them to re-roll their missed attacks when they charge.  Pretty nasty.

Landspeeders are good, though you never want to bunch up multiple speeders in a squadron if you have the FA slots open to split them up. The Typhoon is cool looking but not very effective. The Tornado with Assault Cannon and Heavy Bolter is really great, and has become the default option in 4th ed for most players. A Landspeeder with just a Multimelta is a decent tank-hunter too if you?d like some variety, but the HB/AC is always worth your time.

HS: Preds are good, though they do better the more armor you have on the table. If you only have one or two vehicles for your opponent?s heavy weapons to focus on, they tend to die fast. I have had good luck with an Annhilator with all lascannons and no other upgrades. This is a dedicated anti-tank unit, as you would expect, though I am careful to supplement it with squad-based lascannons. It sucks to lose a large percentage of your anti-tank firepower to one lucky shot, but that can happen with vehicles. I?ve heard good things about Destructors with Autocannon and HB sponsons. Lots of anti-infantry dakka, and it can move 6? and fire to full effect. Nice. I almost always take a Devastator squad with four ML, either six or eight men strong. No other heavy weapon gives you this kind of punch vs vehicles and heavy infantry for close to the price, and the frag templates can even be decent against light infantry if they?re bunched up. Plasmacannons and Lascannons on this unit are just too darn expensive. Heavy Bolters are actually decent, as long as you have sufficient anti-tank elsewhere in the army. HB just chew through light infantry, and are actually just had good as the heavier guns when shooting at heavy infantry in hard cover (like ruined buildings and vehicles). Whirlwinds and Vindicators are also nice. The Vindicator complements a more aggressive style of play, but it can be nice in defense as an area-denial weapon too. Not many opponents are eager to come into the range of a S10 AP2 ordnance template. Whirlwinds are just nice cheap fire support. Good against light infantry, and the minefields can be really useful against an opponent you needs to move- either because he?s trying to assault you, or because the mission requires him to seize objectives. I?ve had mild success with one, but I?m expecting that they?ll do better in multiples, able to lay out multiple minefields in a given turn and just blanket the field with them two or three at a time. My usual army uses the devastators, one Pred, and one Vindicator. Gives me both variety and punch.

Here?s what I might bring for a powerful but fluffy 2k army:

Fairly tooled up HQ (Master of Sanctity or Grandmaster with Sword of Secrets) with jump pack.
10 sm w/PF Vet, ML and MG in Rhino
10 SM w/PF Vet, LC and FL in Rhino
6 SM w/Las and Plas in Razor
6 SM with Las and Plas
6 SM with Plas and Plas
AC/HB speeder
AC/HB speeder
8 Assault Marines with PF Vet, 2 Plas Pistols
Vindicator
Pred Annihilator with las sponsons
8 Devs with 4 ML

Mannahnin
Thank you for the excellent feedback, you?ve given me a lot to consider.

I?m definitely going to bring a Librarian and a Chaplain into my HQ choices. I am also reconfiguring two tactical squads for rhino deployment and losing the scouts. I?ve dropped the Typhoon and taken another Tornado. As for the Dreadnoughts I have already built my Venerable with the Assault Cannon and M.Launcher, so no going back now (though I will probably buy one of the nifty mk5 Vens from FW and arm it better, eventually). But I am considering giving the Plasma Dread the close combat weapon. I think predators are the choice for me too and I?ll use a Vindicator for the third spot as I?m not to keen on the devastators.

Thanks again
Usiel

P.S. I will be getting a friend to do some shots of my Dark Angels and hosting them on his site. So I will bring them to Dakka as soon as I can.

Good stuff!

My DA (very similar list to posted above) took down a heavy vehicle/las and plas platoons IG army and a Godzilla Tyranid list yesterday at 1850. I think you'll be happy with the mix of vehicles, two Rhino squads, and a couple of shooty squads on foot. Allows you to have both mobility and tons of guns. Both powerful and fun to play.

I look forward to seeing some pics and reading some after action reports from your games.

While DA is a good solid army still just like codex marines, I'd strongly recommend against buying that won't work well in a normal list until you see the new DA codex. It may or may not change everything around. Maybe DA will utterly suck, maybe terminators will be made decent, maybe ravenwing will be un-gimped, who knows?

So Mannahnin's army looks like a good place to start. It'd be a fine list in a normal marine army at least. If you buy a bucket of DA terminators and then find out they remain gimped in the new dex, that'd be lame.

Yes,
But I would have to care more about rules than Dark Angels, which I don't.
Black may give 40k armies super powers but white makes them cool.
Edit: Unless their Mongolian Bikers...

Usiel - Judging the book by its cover

Well, go ahead and buy a passle of DA termies with assault cannons, only to find out they can't use'em in the new codex. It ain't my checkbook.

There's no need to be getting all defensive now, all I'm saying is that the rules in which I use my Dark Angels is irrelevant to me as it's the look of the Dark Angels I like. So if the new codex were to lead the options of my particular tastes astray I wouldn't hesitate to use the standard trait marine rules. I was not intending to slight you or your opinion, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Usiel