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How do you feel, as an opponent, of someone who fields a Forgeworld Avatar of Khaine versus someone who fields a normal GW one? Granted, this isn't technically a rules question, but it sort of falls into the realm of rules, because he has a bubble effect. So, if someone set down a Forgeworld Avatar, would you have an issue?

The reason I ask is I am considering adding a Forgeworld model to my army. It will be a counts-as Eldar Avatar. Now, even if I confirm with the TO that the Forgeworld Avatar is acceptable, I'd still like to know what my would-be opponents might think.

Rule of cool? Or modelling for advantage?

I dont see why anyone should care, its no smaller right?

The GW Avatar is on a terminator base (40mm) and the Forgeworld Avatar is on a dreadnought base (60mm) and he has a 12" bubble effect.

puma713 wrote:Rule of cool? Or modelling for advantage?

to a TO, wouldnt that be essentially the same?

60mm wrote:I dont see why anyone should care, its no smaller right?

But bigger can give more cover saves I think

Why not just measure his bubble effect as 11.5" or so to account for the larger base? That way you get no benefit from the larger base, and to top it off you'll become a bigger target. Especially from templates. So if you were willing to modify his bubble range I don't see why not. If you're worried, why not toss him on a 40mm base? Looks like his feet could fit and weighted well it should work.

I would say one of 2 things, either put a 40mm base in the middle, or outline a 40 mm base, and make the outline very visible. When it comes to measuring for things like the bubble effect, use the inner circle.

Happyjew wrote:I would say one of 2 things, either put a 40mm base in the middle, or outline a 40 mm base, and make the outline very visible. When it comes to measuring for things like the bubble effect, use the inner circle.

I was considering that. Just mounting a 40mm on top of the 60mm and measuring from the inner circle for beneficial effects.

I would allow it. The codex assumes that you are using a GW model. Since FW = GW, it should be legal.

Also its worth knowing that the model is about 2 times as big, so cover saves gets harder and you can see it from all over the board.

i have mine modeled with a scythe and the gw model can literally fit underneath my weapon..
so sure maybe you get 0.5 inches of bubble but its not like you can hide the model anywhere anymore unlike the gq one witch you can hide behind a small bush..

so i feel it balances out..

If someone has a problem with this they probley are not worth playing.

azazel the cat wrote: The codex assumes that you are using a GW model. Since FW = GW, it should be legal.

This annoys me to no end.

Forgeworld does not equal Games Workshop (rules-wise or model-wise).

And the codex and rulebook assumes no such thing. It assumes you use Citadel miniatures.


Having gotten that out of the way, I would be more than happy to play someone using the Forgeworld Avatar model as his Eldar Avatar.

I don't see the problem with it. The FW Avatar has no particular special rules, does he? Then how else is he going to be represented, if not by the regular codex entry?

The 12" bubble effect isn't boosted that much (less than half an inch) and the model is much easier to see. Cover saves aren't that much of an issue, since he already has a 4++, but the fact is that he's still really hard to hide compared to the GW mini.

Steelmage99 wrote:

azazel the cat wrote: The codex assumes that you are using a GW model. Since FW = GW, it should be legal.

This annoys me to no end.

Forgeworld does not equal Games Workshop (rules-wise or model-wise).

And the codex and rulebook assumes no such thing. It assumes you use Citadel miniatures.


Having gotten that out of the way, I would be more than happy to play someone using the Forgeworld Avatar model as his Eldar Avatar.

Thank you for sharing your opinion. --Reminds myself to put you on the 'do not play ever list'--

So if someone wanted to use Dkok or Elysian's as normal guard (no special rules or units) you would not play them because while they are forgeworld models they are not Citadel models.??

your allowed to use that model.

If anyone says anything there WAAC and bad. its a larger model and has problems with cover. If anything its a HUGE disadvantage to you, not the other way around.

This is somewhat related. The FW tau battlesuits all come with the 60mm size base, but i emailed FW asking if i should use the 60mm base for them instead of 40mm (since the regular XV8 chassis is 40mm, XV9 are 60mm). They said its ok to use 40mm base for them (XV8 variants, XV88 variants and R'Myr), 60mm base included so they can have more space for cool poses, but XV9's are restricted to 60mm for their size. So i would also assume that there is no problem placing the FW avatar on a 40mm base

shock_at wrote:This is somewhat related. The FW tau battlesuits all come with the 60mm size base, but i emailed FW asking if i should use the 60mm base for them instead of 40mm (since the regular XV8 chassis is 40mm, XV9 are 60mm). They said its ok to use 40mm base for them (XV8 variants, XV88 variants and R'Myr), 60mm base included so they can have more space for cool poses, but XV9's are restricted to 60mm for their size. So i would also assume that there is no problem placing the FW avatar on a 40mm base

I agree its probably not a problem..

But i do have to say my avatar cant fit on a 40 mm base because of the stance on the legs and if you really have a problem with the size of the base of my model who literally is 2 times the size of the other one, then maybe we are not right for eachother as opponents.

That said im sure that some people would argue something different for tournaments but i dont play them so doesent mater to me.. Our gaming club puts rule of cool before almost all else..

its not done painted yet. still a work in progress.....

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:

azazel the cat wrote: The codex assumes that you are using a GW model. Since FW = GW, it should be legal.

This annoys me to no end.

Forgeworld does not equal Games Workshop (rules-wise or model-wise).

And the codex and rulebook assumes no such thing. It assumes you use Citadel miniatures.


Having gotten that out of the way, I would be more than happy to play someone using the Forgeworld Avatar model as his Eldar Avatar.

Thank you for sharing your opinion. --Reminds myself to put you on the 'do not play ever list'--

So if someone wanted to use Dkok or Elysian's as normal guard (no special rules or units) you would not play them because while they are forgeworld models they are not Citadel models.??

What? Did you only read the first line of my post and then started replying?

I simply corrected two misconceptions presented as facts, and then gave my opinion on the subject at hand.

Of course I would also be more than happy to play someone using DKoK or Elysian models as Imperial Guard models.


..

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:

azazel the cat wrote: The codex assumes that you are using a GW model. Since FW = GW, it should be legal.

This annoys me to no end.

Forgeworld does not equal Games Workshop (rules-wise or model-wise).

And the codex and rulebook assumes no such thing. It assumes you use Citadel miniatures.


Having gotten that out of the way, I would be more than happy to play someone using the Forgeworld Avatar model as his Eldar Avatar.

Thank you for sharing your opinion. --Reminds myself to put you on the 'do not play ever list'--

So if someone wanted to use Dkok or Elysian's as normal guard (no special rules or units) you would not play them because while they are forgeworld models they are not Citadel models.??

Perhaps you should read his entire post - specifically the last line.

I agree with everything he said.

I guess I could still mount a 40mm base on the inner part of the 60mm base, for those people that give me flak in a tournament. Either that, or keep a painted Eldar Avatar in my case to pull out and replace my awesome model with. Hopefully, that would make them feel foolish enough.

Especially when they then try to claim your smaller model doesn't get cover.

Of course now I have an image of the GW Avatar saying "Eh-neeek-chock" and growing into a FW Avatar.

Rule of Cool.

The Forgeworld Avatar is super cool, therefor he is absolutely allowed.

Since the FW avatar is an official GW model, I'd just use the FW avatar, using the 60mm base for all measurements. If I ended up playing TFG who had a problem with that, I'd return it to the case and pull out my original infantry sized avatar on a 28mm base and play with that instead.

Portugal Jones wrote:Since the FW avatar is an official GW model,

It's an official FW model, which while owned by GW is not GW and is not the Citadel line.

Actually it IS a citadel model. Check the IA books, note the "Citadel" logo just there. Citadel is GW AND FW

The advantages (increased bubble, by about .5") are more than weighed against the disadvantages of the fact getting cover becomes nigh on impossible, AND how cool the damn model is (full disclosure - husband has one )

If the extra inch in diameter is that big of an issue to someone, than just don't play that person ever again. I have played against the forge world avatar before and it never really made that much of a difference. I love the model and would allow it in any event.

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:

azazel the cat wrote: The codex assumes that you are using a GW model. Since FW = GW, it should be legal.

This annoys me to no end.

Forgeworld does not equal Games Workshop (rules-wise or model-wise).

And the codex and rulebook assumes no such thing. It assumes you use Citadel miniatures.


Having gotten that out of the way, I would be more than happy to play someone using the Forgeworld Avatar model as his Eldar Avatar.

Rules-wise, you are correct. However, model-wise, you are incorrect, sir. Both GW and FW are Citadel Miniatures, and FW is a sub-group of GW. Ergo, wherein both groups create a model representing the same character, the player has the option to use either. This is not much different than using that sweet cardboard cutout picture of an Ork Kan, and absolutely no different than using FW's DKoK in place of Catachans or Cadians or whoever.

Dude just use it, looks awesome

Agreed.

Most folk will forgive the slightly larger bubble for having a model that nice across from them.

It's like the difference between a GW bloodthirster and the Forgeworld one. Killing a GW one is a bit shrugworthy, as the model is so meh, but taking down the beast from hell is memorable, even if the stats are the same

I have an original Avatar on a 25mm base. You should pull that out if people won't let you use the FW one on the bigger base.

Homer

Or pull out the one they released for Epic

Still a Citadel mini after all

(no, i wouldn't actually do this, but it would be funny as hell )